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Blu-Ray player: will it sale?

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Old 05-23-2006, 01:35 PM   #16  
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Kinda of a joke, yeah. Obviously I meant that Bluray has to be available to sell to the general public (thus, being "born") before it has an opportunity to truly fail (die).
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:07 PM   #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames
Bluray dead? Uh, don't you have to be born to die?
I'd say there's a better than average chance that BR will indeed be born, what with all the manufacturing going on and all. I don't know, maybe it's just a hunch.
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Old 05-23-2006, 05:11 PM   #18  
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I am not a "fanboy" of either side, as I also plan to buy a Blue Ray player whenever I can, so I don't care who ends up winning. But if I was a betting man I would put my money on HD-DVD. Yes technically you are right, since Blue Ray hasn't been born, it can't be dead, but it will eventualy be for sale and at between $800 and $1700 the excessive cost will not bode well for Blue Ray. The price performance ratio will make BR a bad value compared to HD-DVD. People that scream about PS3 forget that HD-DVD will be a low cost add on to the X-Box.
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Old 05-23-2006, 05:55 PM   #19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry
I'd say there's a better than average chance that BR will indeed be born, what with all the manufacturing going on and all. I don't know, maybe it's just a hunch.
No doubt about that, unless Sony decides to have an abortion
But seriously, I do like poking a little fun since I got my (HD DVD)player. And I'm very happy with it too. I just feel for the Bluray loyalists. It's such a bad time right now for them, what with HD DVD being out, and working out...and they got nothing to show, nothing to compare. Such a bummer.
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Old 05-23-2006, 06:09 PM   #20  
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wzmf0ChL24

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Old 05-23-2006, 06:45 PM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by µCOM-4
Has nothing to do with this thread.
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Old 05-24-2006, 02:37 AM   #22  
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Sorry LG, but some of this begs for comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordGamer
Jack, do yourself a favor...cut through the "fanboy bias."

First and foremost, NO winner will be declared by the end of this year and I highly doubt by the end of next.

Neither side will have enough units in place to even make a dent. Regardless, of what some HD-DVD fanatics might try to sell you, Toshiba has only shipped 6,000 of their units so far (in the states) and with only about 4,000 more on the way.
They were at 25,000 almost three week ago.

Quote:
Secondly, Blu-ray players overall will be more advanced than the HD-DVD players. I'm NOT saying they will be less "buggy," nor am I going to say the more advanced hardware is worth the additional $500...that's for each individual consumer to decide.
Wrong - the Bluray 1st gen players are less advanced than the $500 A1 - the BD players don't even have decoders for DD+ and TruHD. The only single advantage they have is 1080p, which is certainly only a plus to 0.1 % of the market who have a 1080p display with a TRUE 1080p-capable input. And even those sets will likely have a good deinterlacer built-in, so the 1080i from the A1 will look identical.

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As for studio support, Sony still currently has more studio backing. While many companies will be supporting both, companies including Disney, still currently remain exclusive to the Blu-ray camp. Virtually every company has stated they won't rule out the possibility of developing for both formats, but that's just the "standard line."
Yes, Bluray enjoys more support today, but in 4 weeks that will likely be different. BD has so mangled this launch that there will be "defections" (if that's what one would call supporting both formats).

Quote:
I am NOT pro-BR, nor am I anti-HDDVD. To have a preference is fine, but some people are taking this simple tech battle and turning it into basic human nature of choosing a siding and fighting to the end. With no valid cause other than it's just what humans do. Give this country two sides and they will fight to the death, even if they are fighting over what type of cheese is better...Cheddar or American (if anyone says American, I will shoot you).

"...but until this winter I don't think Blue Ray will take off. HD-DVD might have such a strong foothold by then that Blue Ray dies before it is even started."

Not attacking Corn in particular, but I keep seeing people say this. I don't care which side you are on, there is NO way within six months, one side is going to be on it's way out.

If Toshiba gets blessings from the gods and sells 10,000 units a month for the next six months, it's still ONLY 60,000 units sold. Not factoring the long term success of PS3, it's safe to say it should sell fairly well at launch by hardcore gamers alone. If Sony sells even 100,000 units here this winter, which is should do on launch day alone, that would be 40,000 more BR players in US homes than HD-DVD.

In life, you must remain rational at all times. You ready for my big secret...if I HAD to pick a winner right now, I would say...HD-DVD. Yep, so chew on that HD-DVD fanboys that were "hatin'" on me. HD-DVD has a huge price advantage, is playing it smart having HD and SD movie versions on the same disc, and will eventually get additional studio support. However, as a rational being, I know it's far too early to call, Sony has the more advanced hardware, and if BR camp is able to lower the price (which they might do if PS3 is successful), they should mop the floor with HD-DVD.

But more importantly... I just don't care. Neither format impresses me and I don't have anything riding on the outcome. My advice Jack... Wait till the holiday season to make a purchase. You'll see the movie selection and be able to benefit if there is a price drop (or at least your typical holiday sales). But no matter what... you should get your money's worth out of either one. This battle is going to be here for awhile, so even if a format last two years, it wouldn't of been a complete waste.

/new longest post ever.
Couple of big if's there - if studios start to support both, it will undermine the only "effective" advantage that BD enjoys today.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:31 AM   #23  
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They were at 25,000 almost three week ago.

Keep in mind, I did say the "states," but regardless, show / tell me one source that shows they shipped that many out (anywhere). Furthermore, remember shipped means nothing. What matters is how many are sold.

Some of my sources...
http://gear.ign.com/articles/705/705157p1.html - 05.04.06
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6332337.html - 05.05.06
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-...605030104.html - 05.03.06
-----

Wrong - the Bluray 1st gen players are less advanced than the $500 A1 - the BD players don't even have decoders for DD+ and TruHD.

The Samsung BD-P1000, does support DD+. Check out the official website... http://www.samsung.com/Products/DVDP...?page=Features

The Sony BDP-S1 supports DD+ and TrueHD and both players support 1080p output, so again... "Blu-ray players overall will be more advanced..."
-----

Yes, Bluray enjoys more support today...

Stop at "today," because that's why I said, "currently." I put these words in bold for a reason. Furthermore, unless you have a crystal ball, don't make predictions without anything to back them up. I fail to see how the BR camp has "mangled" this launch, especially when you consider...they haven't even launched yet. Don't say anything about delays, because it's a moot point. Last time I checked, no one picked up an HD-DVD player last holiday season.

Plus, I wouldn't exactly consider HD-DVD's debut, with two buggy players, very limited quanity, and an amount of movies you could count on your hands, a glowing success.
-----

Couple of big if's there - if studios start to support both, it will undermine the only "effective" advantage that BD enjoys today.

Read what you wrote... "if studios start to support both" ...another "if." Yes, it would be an advantage for HD-DVD if it happens, but it wouldn't be a dramatic loss for BR. Also, studio support is not the "only effective advantage" BR enjoys. Overall better hardware and, the biggie of all... larger initial user base. What's that...where's my crystal ball? Using rational thought and past success, the PS3 should easily sell more units on its first day than all the HD-DVD players up to the system's launch.

PS2 sold over 500,000 units on its first day in the states. If the PS3 only did half that, that's 250,000 BR players instantly in the US. Compared to a possible 50,000 to 100,000 units HD-DVD may actually sale (not ship) and not factoring other standalone BR players.

"If" Sony is able to lower the cost of the Blu-ray players to around the $500 range, I could not think of one significant advantage Toshiba would be able to offer. For Toshi's sake, thank goodness we won't see a BR player at $500 for a long time...wait, how much is the PS3 again?
-----

Just turn off your "fanboy" mode, folks. Just for a little while. You're spewing typical defensive mode fanboy garbage, with nothing to back it up. Don't deny the evidence or rational thought. I'm not saying don't have a preference, but don't ignore either when you're knee deep in bull****.

Last edited by LordGamer; 05-24-2006 at 07:36 AM..
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Old 05-24-2006, 08:36 AM   #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordGamer
They were at 25,000 almost three week ago.

Keep in mind, I did say the "states," but regardless, show / tell me one source that shows they shipped that many out (anywhere). Furthermore, remember shipped means nothing. What matters is how many are sold.
And my reply didn't change any of the original info in your quote, except for the quantity. The articles posted are three weeks old and were written from even older information - there was no point in even replying to that one.

Quote:
Some of my sources...
http://gear.ign.com/articles/705/705157p1.html - 05.04.06
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6332337.html - 05.05.06
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-...605030104.html - 05.03.06
-----
Wrong - the Bluray 1st gen players are less advanced than the $500 A1 - the BD players don't even have decoders for DD+ and TruHD.

The Samsung BD-P1000, does support DD+. Check out the official website... http://www.samsung.com/Products/DVDP...?page=Features

The Sony BDP-S1 supports DD+ and TrueHD and both players support 1080p output, so again... "Blu-ray players overall will be more advanced..."
-----
Wrong again - the Sony does DD+ (per the site) and also claims to do DTS-HD but does not handle TruHD according to the specs. Furthermore, the Bluray specs allow players to simply "play" DD+ and DTS-HD by extracting only the DD and DTS legacy core - which is hardly all that "advanced".

The Samsung is stated to handle DD+, along with legacy DTS and DD. Again, it is as yet unknown whether the Samsung is simply "playing" the DD core in DD+.

Quote:
Yes, Bluray enjoys more support today...

Stop at "today," because that's why I said, "currently." I put these words in bold for a reason. Furthermore, unless you have a crystal ball, don't make predictions without anything to back them up. I fail to see how the BR camp has "mangled" this launch, especially when you consider...they haven't even launched yet. Don't say anything about delays, because it's a moot point. Last time I checked, no one picked up an HD-DVD player last holiday season.
"mangled" - (1) To mutilate or disfigure by battering, hacking, cutting, or tearing. (2) To ruin or spoil through ineptitude or ignorance: mangle a speech.

They've apparently dropped to Single Layer discs at launch, because they can't manufacture the DLs properly yet. Worse, the Single-Layers they will produce are only 20 Gigs because they can't get the damn thing to read properly near the outside of the disc. They dropped to Mpeg 2 because they don't "feel" that VC1 and AVC are ready for primetime (not wanting to admit that their authoring tools can't handle them for production yet). They didn't mandate DD+, DTruHD decoding in the players, but left a workaround to decode DD and DTS "core" streams.

So compared to the pristine, class-leading PQ and Audio promised a year ago - is that "mangled" enough?

Quote:
Plus, I wouldn't exactly consider HD-DVD's debut, with two buggy players, very limited quanity, and an amount of movies you could count on your hands, a glowing success.
-----
Works fine for me, except for the shitty remote. I've got 18 movies - do you have 20 fingers There are 37 movies out, or with fixed release dates.

Quote:
Couple of big if's there - if studios start to support both, it will undermine the only "effective" advantage that BD enjoys today.

Read what you wrote... "if studios start to support both" ...another "if." Yes, it would be an advantage for HD-DVD if it happens, but it wouldn't be a dramatic loss for BR. Also, studio support is not the "only effective advantage" BR enjoys.
At this juncture, Yes it is...
Quote:
Overall better hardware and, the biggie of all... larger initial user base. What's that...where's my crystal ball? Using rational thought and past success, the PS3 should easily sell more units on its first day than all the HD-DVD players up to the system's launch.

PS2 sold over 500,000 units on its first day in the states. If the PS3 only did half that, that's 250,000 BR players instantly in the US. Compared to a possible 50,000 to 100,000 units HD-DVD may actually sale (not ship) and not factoring other standalone BR players.
That may have been a big factor when everyone thought the PS3 would sell for $399 WITH HDMI and BD drive. We now know it'll be $600 for that.

Quote:
"If" Sony is able to lower the cost of the Blu-ray players to around the $500 range, I could not think of one significant advantage Toshiba would be able to offer. For Toshi's sake, thank goodness we won't see a BR player at $500 for a long time...wait, how much is the PS3 again?
And if pigs could fly. When that happens, HD DVD will be selling for under $300.
-----

Quote:
Just turn off your "fanboy" mode, folks. Just for a little while. You're spewing typical defensive mode fanboy garbage, with nothing to back it up. Don't deny the evidence or rational thought. I'm not saying don't have a preference, but don't ignore either when you're knee deep in bull****.[/FONT]
This is not fanboy mode - What I have posted is factual - all of it. Your response was not, especially the part where you tell everyone else not to listen to me because it's "bull****". Your response may indicate that you took it a little personally - which is where you may be slipping into "fanboy" territory, as you call it.
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:05 AM   #25  
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Our debate is futile. Though to clarify, my bull**** comment was not at you directly, but to fanboys in general. I'm getting confident you are just the UK "version" of HD Guru.

You're an HD-DVD fanboy, period. You jump on the offensive at the drop of a dime and twist info to try to have it in your favor.

Toshiba has shipped 6,000 players as of the beginning of the month, with 4,000 on the way. I don't know how they do math where you're from, but that would still only be 10,000 shipped so far.

The Samsung and Sony players support the HD audio codecs just as well as the Toshiba players do...which would mean they both are incomplete.

Playstation 3 sales at $500 and $600. Both have BR players, and sales should hit at least 200,000 on day one easy. Oh, and the PS3 will be $500...but I still don't see any pigs flying.

What I don't understand with you people ("fanboys") is why do you care so [email protected] much? Is it just the need to fight? Well, I'm the one that is sorry now, because I simply don't have the energy to waste time with an individual that refuses to use any rational thought. Whatever helps you get through the day.
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:21 AM   #26  
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Why would anyone buy a $1000 to $2000 BR player if I could buy a PS3 for $500 that plays HD movies and plays games?

I must be missing something.
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:51 AM   #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordGamer
Our debate is futile. Though to clarify, my bull**** comment was not at you directly, but to fanboys in general. I'm getting confident you are just the UK "version" of HD Guru.

You're an HD-DVD fanboy, period. You jump on the offensive at the drop of a dime and twist info to try to have it in your favor.
Well, I don't know who is so I can't comment. I do know that I have stuck to being factual. If anyone has "jumped on the offensive" it hasn't been on this end.

Quote:
Toshiba has shipped 6,000 players as of the beginning of the month, with 4,000 on the way. I don't know how they do math where you're from, but that would still only be 10,000 shipped so far.
I don't know why you refuse to accept that 25,000 have been shipped...

Quote:
The Samsung and Sony players support the HD audio codecs just as well as the Toshiba players do...which would mean they both are incomplete.
I have pointed out repeatedly that they are not the same. The BD players are only required to play the DD and DTS "core" of DD+ and DTS-HD. The HD DVD players are mandated to play the full DD+ and TruHD - which is why on BD discs DD+ and DTS-HD carry the legacy cores, while on HD DVD discs, they do not.

Quote:
Playstation 3 sales at $500 and $600. Both have BR players, and sales should hit at least 200,000 on day one easy. Oh, and the PS3 will be $500...but I still don't see any pigs flying.
No HDMI on the base model...

Quote:
What I don't understand with you people ("fanboys") is why do you care so [email protected] much? Is it just the need to fight? Well, I'm the one that is sorry now, because I simply don't have the energy to waste time with an individual that refuses to use any rational thought. Whatever helps you get through the day.
I only joined this board to ensure that correct information prevails. I'm sorry if my corrections are seen as an attack, but they aren't.

I suppose some of what I'm saying will be much easier to demonstrate when your players ship...
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:52 AM   #28  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolv
Wrong again - the Sony does DD+ (per the site) and also claims to do DTS-HD but does not handle TruHD according to the specs.
No, the BDP-S1 offers the same TrueHD 2-Channel capability that the HD-A1 does.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1142288677966

http://www.dvdcity.com/dvdplayer/sony-bdps1.php

Last edited by strawberry; 05-24-2006 at 09:59 AM..
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:59 AM   #29  
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I don't know why you refuse to accept that 25,000 have been shipped...

I will keep this simple... Show me one, just one source stating 25,000 units have shipped or at least, where are you pulling this number from?

No HDMI on the base model...

Which means?

I only joined this board to ensure that correct information prevails. I'm sorry if my corrections are seen as an attack, but they aren't.

What are you, an HD super hero? How about starting by providing correct information; regardless, if it plays in your HD-DVD favor or not.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:09 AM   #30  
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Strawberry - I will provide this link from SONY's own website to illustrate exactly the point I have made.

The player can ONLY decode the legacy "CORE" streams of DD and DTS from these advanced formats.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...=feature&var2=

To Whit:

FEATURES:
Blu-ray Disc / DVD Playback2
Video Codec Format : MPEG2/MPEG4-AVC/VC-1
Full HD 1080p Video Output through HDMI connection1
DVD Upscaling to 1080p3
Picture Mode Settings
Uncompressed Multi Channel Linear PCM Output
Dolby® Digital Plus(Dolby® Digital audio stream only), Dolby® TrueHD (Dolby® Digital audio stream only) dts®-HD --- (dts audio stream only) Digital Out and decoding capability
Dolby® Digital and dts® 5.1channel Output
Multi Channel 192KHz/24bit Audio D/A Converters
Rigid Beam Construction
Separated Audio Circuit Board
Highly Tuned Audio Parts
Drive Bracket for stability of drive system
Individual Speaker Setting
Off Center Insulator Feet
BD-Java Interactive Capability5
Pop up Menu
Quick Set Up
FL Off/Dimmer Mode
Screen Saver
MP3 and JPEG Playback from DVD Media4
Parental Control
IR In
Multi Brand TV Control Remote
Sophisticated Box Design with blue glass front


I hope this helps everyone understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry
No, the BDP-S1 offers the same TrueHD 2-Channel capability that the HD-A1 does.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1142288677966

http://www.dvdcity.com/dvdplayer/sony-bdps1.php
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