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Blu Ray Vs HD-DVD Debate

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Old 05-13-2004, 08:34 PM   #1
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Default Blu Ray Vs HD-DVD Debate

Personally I think blue ry is in the lead in the tech war.

Sure HD-DVD has the dvd forums backing but I dont think that will count for very much. Considering alot will hinge on Hollywood and its movie studios. Who will they support? Sony has an edge here as it already owns a fair slab of movie studios so I wouldnt count on seeing any of their movies on HD-DVD.

Another reason is Blu Ray has higher capacity. I think HD-DVD is too small a capacity for the long term. So those into data archiving will prefer the higher gig capacity of the blu ray media. This next format will probably have to last us another ten years before the next gen of data storage is readily available for the average consumer.

One big advantage HD-DVD is claiming is lower production costs for their recorded media. Sony and its allies say their media once set up will actually be cheaper per megabyte than the HD-DVD media.

Whats your thoughts?
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Old 05-16-2004, 08:38 PM   #2
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I am going out on a limb here and I think Toshiba will prevail. The HD-DVD is the cheapest to produce by far. I just saw a Blu-Ray player on Ebay for I think close to $3,000 as a starting price. There is no way that will sell. So Since I believe HD DVD is the cheapest to produce it has an edge. Also, just because Blu-Ray is superior technically speaking, it does not mean it will prevail. Take a look at Beta Max and VHS. Beta Max was technically speaking superior to VHS. However, what I have been informed is that the adult industry (porn industry) embraced VHS and so you have it! So this will be interesting to see unfold..
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Old 05-18-2004, 05:24 PM   #3
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Has there been a hd-dvd player put up for sale anywhere? If so what wsa its price compared to blu rays player you saw on questionable ebay. If not, then that isnt a valid point as for all we know the hd-dvd player may well debut at $3000.

I realize the tech best dosnt always win. If what you say is true and the porn industry basically saved VHS that wont happen with hi def dvd as the porn industry hasnt really embraced current dvd whole heartedly. Short of just copying what they had on vhs onto dvd there isnt a huge amount of dvd quality porn out there that im aware of. I could be niaive(sp.) in saying this though. And i cant see the average porn producer spending the money on the cameras and systems necessary to produce porn in 720p or 1080i. I think they will be happy with current dvd quality. It suits their purpose.
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Old 05-18-2004, 07:01 PM   #4
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Actually I just used the VHS and Porn as an example that the best technology (blu-ray) does not always win. I am not saying the porn industry will save Toshiba or anything like that at all. In fact, I have heard that High Definition Porn is not as good as standard definition because you see a lot more flaws etc. Anyway I have not seen a Toshiba player for sale, has anyone else? Ebay would be a likely place.
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Old 05-19-2004, 12:03 AM   #5
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I just cant see another industry with enough power behind them to be able to sway an industry one way or another. The two major players are Hollywood and Computing.

Hollywood will probably have the decdiding factor which could prove interesting if they choose hd-dvd because sony and all its movie studios will no doubt boycott the new format releasing only on their blu ray range of players.
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:48 PM   #6
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Knight76, I have to agree with you that Hollywood is one of the most important factors (if not the most important) in the outcome of the HD DVD battle. Without content, a technology is nothing. So obviously Hollywood must support a new format for it to be successful and to become standard.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:28 PM   #7
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The one significant advantage that Toshiba's HD-DVD has over Blu-Ray is that the HD-DVD players would be backward-compatible with older DVD titles. Sony's Blu-Ray, while larger in capacity than Toshiba's design would require owners to keep a second DVD player for their older titles or replace their entire library over time.

Hollywood may like the potential profits from the idea that customers would have to re-purchase their titles if Blu-Ray succeeds. However, I think that at the end of the day consumers may control this particular standards-war if they base their decision on compatibility and buying more time with their current DVD library investment.
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:20 PM   #8
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A lot will depend on which format has the superior and more easily implementable copy protection as that is the prime objective of the content suppliers.

I do hope in this case the more technically superior system prevails. as compromises have been made in the past due to backward compatibility considerations. If you consider who will be the initial buying audience for high def DVD it will be the Videophile. The mass public couldn't give a hoot about Hi Def DVD Video, Audio or anything else.

It's the people who read groups like this who will be the first to adopt Hi-Def DVD. We tend to pay more to be on the leading edge and as such want the highest standards without compromises.

I'm sure as production increases cost will come down dramatically as well as "universal" format players for both the current and Hi-Def DVD's are concerned.

Today's DVD players for the most part have become commodities. They are almost in the throw away catagory price wise as technological development is so rapid they become almost obsolete in a very short period of time and, nowadays a decent DVD video player is very low priced.

Let's not sell ourselves short, we should opt for the best technology. Worst thing that can happen is 'till universal DVD-Hi-Def DVD players become available we keep a "regular" DVD player around to play our present DVDs and buy a new one for Hi-Def only if necessary.

Don't forget, at this point in time and, for the near future, the mass market won't be involved to any great degree so no need to cater to them at this point and compromise the whole thing.
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Old 07-07-2004, 02:30 PM   #9
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Let's also not forget the real reason VHS won out - Marketing. Many eons ago in the early 80's the group pushing VHS had a more agressive and attractive marketing campaign which won over the studios, electronics makers, retailers and, ultimately, the consumer.

It will be interesting to see how HD-DVD and Blu-Ray duke it out over the next few years. If both come to market at the same time I think any format war will be short lived. It wasn't more than a few years before Beta was effectively out of competition. In in recent years I've seen house flies with longer lifespans than DivX

As mentioned in an earlier post the best technology has little to do with the eventual winner. Hey, look at the Tucker automobile - it was far superior to anything Ford, GM or Chrysler had. How many Tucker dealerships do you see today?
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:37 PM   #10
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Default The technology race

I agree that the better technology will not be the deciding factor on which is ultimately accepted as the standard. If I recall correctly there were several reasons VHS won out over the technically superior Betamax - several of which have been mentioned. One major factor that I didn't see mentioned - as I recall it - was the fact that the Betamax was very expensive because it was owned by Sony (if I recall correctly) and noone else was allowed to produce the players (except under license). The VHS however, was produced my several companies which led to competition and ultimately falling prices. For some time, as us old farts recall, both VHS and Betamax versions of movies and media were available. Ultimatlely, it was the consumers that chose the winner - of course they went with the much more affordable VHS players. As more and more VHS players were sold Betamax eventually became extinct.

After witnessing that technology war I believe it will again be the consumers that determine the eventual winner in this race... of course what the consumer chooses is usually tied to cost.
We'll see!
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Old 07-30-2004, 01:32 PM   #11
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Yes VHS won out due to marketing and some blunders Sony made. Sony wouldn't bend when JVC approached them so JVC invented VHS, and once RCA signed up it was all but over for Beta, although Sony and company put up a helluva fight which is why it took longer than it should of.

If you read the latest press releases you will find that Blu-rays DO in fact play older dvds.
Sony has a Blu-ray recorder available right now in Japan for $4000us.
The DVD Forum officially backs HD-DVD however most of its CE members are backing Blu-ray as well.
IMO Toshiba/NEC are bringing a rush product to the market to try to satisfy HD hungry fans with HD-DVD.
Sony/Philips with the backing of everyone else is looking for a long-term format with Blu-ray.
I like this approach better I don't want to upgrade to HD-DVD now only to upgrade to Ultra-HD-DVD-recordable in five years.With all the BIG players in Blu-ray(Matsushita,Hitachi,Thomson,Sony,Philips) it looks like Toshiba/NEC is in for a long, hard ride.
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Old 07-30-2004, 01:41 PM   #12
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Some big players in the computer industry(HP,Dell) are also backing Blu-ray with BD-ROMs.
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Old 08-07-2004, 08:51 PM   #13
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Default HD-DVD sweet

Everyone seems to forget that the compression technologies on HD-DVD are on the order of 250% more efficient than the mpeg-2 codec used by blu ray. Even a 15gb hd-dvd disc will hold as much information as a 50gb blu ray disc.
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:54 AM   #14
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The BDA(blu-ray group) is looking at 2 vastly improved compression schemes,(HD-DVD uses these) one being MPEG-4 H.264, and VC-9 which WMVHD uses, and will certainly include one of these in their format spec. due in September. Also looking into ultra high capacity 100 GB 4-layer Blu-ray discs.

So your point won't mean much soon.

Last edited by maximus; 08-08-2004 at 08:37 PM..
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Old 08-11-2004, 12:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus
The BDA(blu-ray group) is looking at 2 vastly improved compression schemes,(HD-DVD uses these) one being MPEG-4 H.264, and VC-9 which WMVHD uses, and will certainly include one of these in their format spec. due in September. Also looking into ultra high capacity 100 GB 4-layer Blu-ray discs.

Wow, all these terms, I certainly got a lot to catch up, hope you all are patience with me...

First, in term of video quality, are these all the same High Defination and/or which is better?
1) D-VHS
2) HD-DVD
3) WMV HD
How do I different them?
Thanks.
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