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Funny but accurate Plasma (PDP) vs LCD youtube video

PFC5
05-13-2009, 07:48 PM
Thought I would share it. :D

NPeb_CwJ9PM

mytime
05-13-2009, 07:54 PM
Very nice. :thumbsup:

BiggNewt
05-14-2009, 04:57 AM
Nice! I just bought a PDP TV.

PFC5
05-14-2009, 11:40 AM
Nice! I just bought a PDP TV.

Congrats!

How does it compare to your Samsung LCD?

BiggNewt
05-14-2009, 11:46 AM
Haven't had a chance to hook them up, but from the store view (as much as that's worth), the blacks we're ten times better than my LCD. And the viewing angles of course are much better on the Plasma. My LCD picks up a lot of Motion Blur and the Panny seems to be almost blur-free from what I saw.

I'll let you know more when I hook it up.

PFC5
05-14-2009, 02:14 PM
I look forward to hearing what you thing.

Usually the black levels do not favor plasmas as much in the ultra bright stores but show even better black levels when setup in a home with normally dimmer lighting.

daleb
05-14-2009, 03:02 PM
It's funny, even with the great improvement in LCDs (and they've been substantial), whenever someone claims all the advantages it always comes down to comparing them with PDP. Never (or very rarely) the other way around.
I think there is a place for LCD.. and would not mind having one as my 2nd TV..but as a prime the PDP is still more cost-effective for the advantages you get IMO.

PFC5
05-14-2009, 03:39 PM
It's funny, even with the great improvement in LCDs (and they've been substantial), whenever someone claims all the advantages it always comes down to comparing them with PDP. Never (or very rarely) the other way around.
I think there is a place for LCD.. and would not mind having one as my 2nd TV..but as a prime the PDP is still more cost-effective for the advantages you get IMO.

The areas/uses I think where LCD is the better choice is for more than 5% computer monitor use, sun rooms where the sunlight cannot be limited, or for smaller screens that are not available as plasma. That is about it for when I will choose an LCD over plasma now that I have a plasma and see the differences. My next purchase will be to replace the 47" 1080p LCD in my bedroom with a 46" 1080p plasma. Then I will not be so distracted with poorer black levels in the bedroom when the lights are off. It is hard to go watch that LCD in the bedroom after watching the plasma for me. :helpme

daleb
05-14-2009, 06:11 PM
The areas/uses I think where LCD is the better choice is for more than 5% computer monitor use, sun rooms where the sunlight cannot be limited, or for smaller screens that are not available as plasma. That is about it for when I will choose an LCD over plasma now that I have a plasma and see the differences. My next purchase will be to replace the 47" 1080p LCD in my bedroom with a 46" 1080p plasma. Then I will not be so distracted with poorer black levels in the bedroom when the lights are off. It is hard to go watch that LCD in the bedroom after watching the plasma for me. :helpme

I never even thought of that with regards to LCD and yet you cited a case where the advantage of choosing a plasma for a second or bedroom TV could be even more significant!

PFC5
05-14-2009, 06:41 PM
I never even thought of that with regards to LCD and yet you cited a case where the advantage of choosing a plasma for a second or bedroom TV could be even more significant!

That is WHY I mentioned it. ;)

I assumed you were considering a LCD for a bedroom when you mentioned that, so I thought I would post that as to WHY I am considering getting rid of my LCD in the bedroom. :D

It might be more important to have a plasma in the bedroom than in the living room, but it is usually a better choice to go with plasma for both and then you can enjoy all the benefits plasma has over LCD everywhere. :lol:

BiggNewt
05-15-2009, 05:02 PM
First let me start off by saying, I am not against LCD at all, I think it's a good TV type, it has it's advantages. It looks great in the bedroom and benefits from being farther away from the seating distance. That is one thing this Plasma does better, displays a better picture at a closer distance, I sit roughly 6-7 feet from my TV in the theater room and I barely ever notice any artifacts. The motion blur is handled much better.

The color accuracy is much better on the Plasma, which is funny because CNet said it wasn't that accurate, my LCD tended to bleed reds and lost a lot of detail in shadow areas with blue-tinted areas, even with countless hours of tweaking. Not the case now, I think just the fact that the blacks are so much blacker that the colors are popping but remaining true and not over saturated.

Biggest improvement is SD, no longer filled with edge Noise and bland colors.

Add on that I can view the TV from anywhere in my long room (it's longer than it is wide) and I am more than happy with this purchase and would recommend Plasma to anyone looking for an accurate theater image.

crazyal
05-17-2009, 08:37 AM
Sorry but it looks like it was made by someone who clearly favors PDPs as an attempt to push them over LCDs. Kind of reminds me of the whole BD/ HD DVD war when one side would make it sound like the extra bit rate would be day and night different.

Lets face it more than 90% of the TV viewing public would never see the differences like contrast or color. They sit mainly in front of their TVs so viewing angle is not a real problem. So that leaves motion blur vs. dealing with sun light.

Maybe LCD can hire Bart Simpson to do a counter flash video to why LCD is better than PDP. I'd find that just as amusing but also as worthless, lol.

PFC5
05-17-2009, 01:34 PM
Sorry but it looks like it was made by someone who clearly favors PDPs as an attempt to push them over LCDs. Kind of reminds me of the whole BD/ HD DVD war when one side would make it sound like the extra bit rate would be day and night different.

Lets face it more than 90% of the TV viewing public would never see the differences like contrast or color. They sit mainly in front of their TVs so viewing angle is not a real problem. So that leaves motion blur vs. dealing with sun light.

Maybe LCD can hire Bart Simpson to do a counter flash video to why LCD is better than PDP. I'd find that just as amusing but also as worthless, lol.

Sorry. I have to disagree with you here. It is NOTHING like the BD vs HD DVD bitrate arguments. Have you had a plasma in your home where you now have a LCD? I have had an LCD where my plasma is now, and I still have 2 LCDs and a DLP along with the plasma. Everyone I show the difference to believes it is fairly dramatic difference in a dimly lit room. Especially with darker material where poorer blacks become much more noticeable. This is with all the displays calibrated to the best PQ they can be in such lighting.

I have my HT room setup can have 6-8 people watching in chairs with only 3-4 people being able to watch from a mostly straight in front of the display seating. Half of the seating will have to be at anywhere from a 110-140 degree angle and one seat almost 160 degree angle. I imagine if a whole family sits down to watch something then someone is NOT going to get the sweet spot seating, and will get a more washed out view. Granted the viewing angle where this happens is greater than the seating position depicted in that video, but not by much more than that.

If you have never had a plasma where a LCD was you might think the difference is similar to the difference seen in thos ultra bright stores, but i will say it is pretty darn dramatic in MY home lighting.

daleb
05-17-2009, 01:39 PM
Again, the real improvement in the most recent (and expensive) LCD displays is approaching Plasma like black-levels.
I am not aware of any real advantage LCD has other than lighter weight, thinner form, a bit more energy efficiency (although that's becoming questionable), and more tolerance for brightly lit rooms.
It would seem the advantages of plasma still remain greater, for most of us.

PFC5
05-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Again, the real improvement in the most recent (and expensive) LCD displays is approaching Plasma like black-levels.
I am not aware of any real advantage LCD has other than lighter weight, thinner form, a bit more energy efficiency (although that's becoming questionable), and more tolerance for brightly lit rooms.
It would seem the advantages of plasma still remain greater, for most of us.

No question the LED based LCDs have black levels approaching good plasma black levels, but they also cost as much as twice the money to get to that equal position and sometimes even more than twice the money. IMO, the LCD mfg need to get the cost of getting LCDs with an LED backlight to where the regular LCDs are now in price to start to compete on such PQ issues, but then there is still the viewing angles issue, and the blooming issues that LEDs introduce, and the motion issues still a problem even with the LED based LCDs.

Lee Stewart
05-17-2009, 05:38 PM
Very cute video and for the most part accurate as to the portrayal of the differences between the two technologies.

As was stated in recent links, in the 50" and over HDTV's - 50% are PDP's.

IMHO - the bigger the display - the more noticeable the difference between PDP and LCD.

And those differences in PQ are dependent on the content displayed.

PFC5
05-20-2009, 08:33 PM
And the environment as well, but I own 2 LCds and 1 plasma and I will be avoiding LCDs whenever possible after experiencing my plasma's PQ improvements over my LCDs.

virp123
05-21-2009, 05:09 AM
LCD TV has gained some great strive forward when it comes to improvements in black levels and sometime its head to head with plasma displays. But, the fact remains same; Plasma displays still maintain their main spot.
let’s find out why LCD flat panels are first choice in airplanes? Answer is LCD TVs aren’t affected by fluctuation in air pressure; Giving out consistent performance, irrespective of high altitude.
PLASMAS on high altitude give buzzing sound due to lower atmospheric pressure, because panels are made up of compressed natural gases.

Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma. Accordingly, prices go up for the LCDs.

pappylap
05-21-2009, 08:42 AM
Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma.

I gotta jump in here this is a totally inaccurate statment if both displays are 1080p then both give the same resolution...1920X1080



Lets tell the whole truth here this statement is only accurate in screen sizes less than 42" and to my knowledge ther are no manufacturers currently making plasmas less than 42"

Hey Elmer, Stop spreading the FUD:(

daleb
05-21-2009, 09:07 AM
Most modern plasmas are rated for 8500' altitude. They would not be the right choice for a very small segment of the population.
Hardly a major consideration against more important factors in display selection like ambient room lighting, viewing angle, viewing distance, etc.

PFC5
05-21-2009, 11:35 AM
LCD TV has gained some great strive forward when it comes to improvements in black levels and sometime its head to head with plasma displays. But, the fact remains same; Plasma displays still maintain their main spot.
letís find out why LCD flat panels are first choice in airplanes? Answer is LCD TVs arenít affected by fluctuation in air pressure; Giving out consistent performance, irrespective of high altitude.
PLASMAS on high altitude give buzzing sound due to lower atmospheric pressure, because panels are made up of compressed natural gases.

Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma. Accordingly, prices go up for the LCDs.

I gotta jump in here this is a totally inaccurate statment if both displays are 1080p then both give the same resolution...1920X1080



Lets tell the whole truth here this statement is only accurate in screen sizes less than 42" and to my knowledge ther are no manufacturers currently making plasmas less than 42"

Hey Elmer, Stop spreading the FUD:(

I agree this IS total BS about the resolution.

I guess if someone's home IS on an airplane, then they SHOULD get a LCD, but for the rest of us who live in homes on the ground, that will not matter about altitude levels unless they live on a mountain. :lol:

unotis
05-21-2009, 11:51 AM
I own and have owned both and while I really liked my Sony LCD HDTV and thought it was spectacular in just about every way, my Panasonic plasma is just better in just about every respect.

i will still have LCDs, mostly for smaller screen sizes and if LED HDTVs continue to improve and drop in cost, I'm open minded enough to really take a close look at them when I'm ready for another HDTV, but until then I have to say with all honesty plasma is the best there is especially for the money. :thumbsup:

PFC5
05-21-2009, 11:57 AM
I own and have owned both and while I really liked my Sony LCD HDTV and thought it was spectacular in just about every way, my Panasonic plasma is just better in just about every respect.

i will still have LCDs, mostly for smaller screen sizes and if LED HDTVs continue to improve and drop in cost, I'm open minded enough to really take a close look at them when I'm ready for another HDTV, but until then I have to say with all honesty plasma is the best there is especially for the money. :thumbsup:

Excellent post as usual. :D

I sure hope LCD can improve to equal plasmas as then more choices would be available to me and everyone else as well. Choice is good, so lets hope LCD CAN improve on the things it falls short of compared to plasmas. ;)

GymBrat98
05-21-2009, 06:40 PM
I love my LCD, it rawks in sunlight, and no light!:)

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/LIovemykittez/98752938.jpg

crazyal
05-22-2009, 08:33 PM
Sorry. I have to disagree with you here. It is NOTHING like the BD vs HD DVD bitrate arguments. Have you had a plasma in your home where you now have a LCD? I have had an LCD where my plasma is now, and I still have 2 LCDs and a DLP along with the plasma. Everyone I show the difference to believes it is fairly dramatic difference in a dimly lit room. Especially with darker material where poorer blacks become much more noticeable. This is with all the displays calibrated to the best PQ they can be in such lighting.

I have my HT room setup can have 6-8 people watching in chairs with only 3-4 people being able to watch from a mostly straight in front of the display seating. Half of the seating will have to be at anywhere from a 110-140 degree angle and one seat almost 160 degree angle. I imagine if a whole family sits down to watch something then someone is NOT going to get the sweet spot seating, and will get a more washed out view. Granted the viewing angle where this happens is greater than the seating position depicted in that video, but not by much more than that.

If you have never had a plasma where a LCD was you might think the difference is similar to the difference seen in thos ultra bright stores, but i will say it is pretty darn dramatic in MY home lighting.

Please rewatch that video. You decided the title to this thread "Funny but accurate.." For example how is showing three people on a couch watching a LCD but only one can see it correctly accurate? All the points listed in the video may be accurate however they were grossly overrated and that makes the video hardly accurate.

Kind of pre assuming of you to state that I would know something if I had one yet you've never been to my house to know what I have. If you had followed my posts from a few months ago (I forgive you if you haven't and would be worried and a little scared if you had :lol: ) you would know I was strongly favoring getting a Panny S1 because i felt it offered the best value for the dollar.

I like Plasmas but I can also see that most people don't view a HDTV as passionately as I and most others here do. Plasmas had an advantage of a large size for less money than a LCD of equal size. Remember most people are not up to speed on which models of LCDs are the nearest PQ wise to a PDP and will most likely use things like 1080p as a standard.

Now if you go to BB's web site and search for 52"~55" HDTVs the Panny S1 is 8th on the losest pricewise list, some $500 higher than a Sharp Aquos.

chinee
05-27-2009, 05:11 PM
Lets face it more than 90% of the TV viewing public would never see the differences like contrast or color. They sit mainly in front of their TVs so viewing angle is not a real problem. So that leaves motion blur vs. dealing with sun light.

The true-est statement on this thread.

LCDs dominate the market right now because manufacturers and retailers find that LCDs appeal to a greater population and thus would create greater sales and profit... Marketing 101, or was it Economics 101?

Are there advantages to Plasma panels? Yes. Do 90% of the population notice these advantages? No. Do they perceive the brighter image of LCD as better? Very likely. Is the color accuracy of plasma more important to them than contrast ratios? I doubt it. Do manufacturers believe LCDs to be more attractive to consumers than plasma? Clearly so.

After all, consumers vote with their wallets... and they voted for change (from plasma to LCD that is.)

I have both in my home, and after living with HDTV for 5 months now... I'm still changing my opinion on what constitutes great picture quality (to me). Just last night I thought my 40" LCD to be too bright... and I realized it was because all of the normal ambient lighting that's normally on in the room was switched off. Switching to movie mode solved that issue; turning on the ambient lighting would have also taken care of that as well.

I like both... some Toyotas are better than some Hondas, and some Hondas are better than some Toyotas.. but they are both excellent cars. So it is with Plasma and LCD.

Loves2Watch
05-28-2009, 09:27 AM
No question the LED based LCDs have black levels approaching good plasma black levels, but they also cost as much as twice the money to get to that equal position and sometimes even more than twice the money. IMO, the LCD mfg need to get the cost of getting LCDs with an LED backlight to where the regular LCDs are now in price to start to compete on such PQ issues, but then there is still the viewing angles issue, and the blooming issues that LEDs introduce, and the motion issues still a problem even with the LED based LCDs.

And to top that off, PDP's have smoother transitions that LCD panels will never be able to match besides richness of color and depth...

And this is coming from a professional that owns and uses CRT's, PDP's, LCD's, LCoS, and DLP.

BiggNewt
05-29-2009, 04:34 AM
I now own both and no way could I go back to buying LCD.

PFC5
05-29-2009, 11:24 AM
I now own both and no way could I go back to buying LCD.

See that is what I am talking about. :D

Previously you were a big advocate of LCDs correct? Once most people compare a good plasma to a good LCD in their home in normal home lighting they easily see the difference and IMO, it is not even close to being equal PQ with plasma being pretty dramatically better, particularly with black levels & viewing angles. It is not completely fair to compare a 3+ year old LCD to a brand new plasma, but the reverse is also true as both have improved, but I think LCD has made up more ground, but both have improved which is good for us consumers. The problem is with black levels and viewing angles, and also to a smaller degree motion, LCD still has a long way to go to catch up to plasma and it will likely take a few more years if possible at all. Currently the LED backlit LCDs can nearly match plasma with black levels, but not viewing angles which seem to be worse than CCFL LCD models and those LED based LCDs are so much more money just to try to match the black levels with plasma, so you pay much more to get that improvement, and still have the viewing angle issues. Why spend that much more for better blacks when for about half the money (or maybe less) you can get a plasma and have both? ;)

Now if it is almost always going to be in a very bright room, and/or used a lot as a computer monitor also, then LCD IS the best choice. But if you watch TV with the lights dimmed then you really see the difference, and that just cannot be compared in these ultra bright stores.

daleb
05-29-2009, 11:29 AM
Sorry about that....connection froze....continue to next post! :)

daleb
05-29-2009, 11:33 AM
http://www.displaycalibrationonline.com/index.asp

I have not seen enough evidence that the newer top plasmas have improved substantially, but they are not at the top for no reason.

If you can still get a Kuro Pro 111FD somewhere, grab it..nothing is better (yet).
Too bad they don't make them anymore, but that certainly helps the price on the ones still left.

StanDaMan
05-29-2009, 01:00 PM
I love my LCD, it rawks in sunlight, and no light!http://www.entertainment-place.info/smile/img/2659/o09m0309xuaw/bbsmile.gif

Wow that does look nice :D

PFC5
06-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Here is an article about the differences that seems pretty accurate:

http://www.cnet.com/1990-7874_1-5108443-2.html?tag=hdtv;hdtv_l

numan2good
06-05-2009, 12:46 PM
Here is an article about the differences that seems pretty accurate:

http://www.cnet.com/1990-7874_1-5108443-2.html?tag=hdtv;hdtv_l

hello PFC5
nice funny video.i guess now the LCD lovers must have something to say......:what:
but i know they will STILL go for LCD.:banghead:

Marty1080i
06-13-2009, 05:08 AM
Hello everyone,

Although I haven't made a post here for a while, I'm currently getting ready to make the jump to a larger screen (46"-52") and 1080p. I realize the debate between plasma and lcd is ongoing, but before I make the decision for myself I would like to ask about the benefits of an lcd over plasma regarding the console gaming issue. Forgive me if this issue has already been addressed in this thread as I didn't manage to read all of the posts. While it's obviously not going to be the only source I will be using my set for, I do spend a significant amount of time gaming during an average week. Is this one area in particular where lcd can have an advantage over plasma, or is my knowledge a little out of date? I'm referring specifically to the "burn in"and response time/motion blurr issues. I won't be able to afford an lcd with the 120Hz feature, but does the "Gaming Mode" included on some models make up for that?

Thanks a bunch for any advice before making my purchase.:helpme

P.S. As for the ambient light in my theater/living room, I am rather anal about glare on the screen which is why I plug in my adjustable halogen lamp BEHIND where my set will be set up. Unless I'm watching on a front projector with huge screen, I don't like watching tv in complete darkness.

PFC5
06-13-2009, 12:57 PM
As long as you do not have direct sunlight on the screen you should be fine with the top brands of plasma. My first choice would be a Panasonic plasma as they have a new panel design this year that is 30%+ brighter without any more power used, or you can use the lower brightness setting (which is still very bright) and use even less power.

We game on my last year Panasonic plasma model and it is the best TV for gaming i have tried out of plasma, DLP & LCD. Much better motion with fast moving shoot em up games & sports games where timing is critical. Burn-in is mostly a thing of the past with the recent plasmas by Panasonic, Pioneer, & Samsung, but LG still is said to have some issues with that so I would stick to those others.

Response time is basically zero on plasmas and will likely help improve your gaming over LCD since it has done that for me at least from what I have experienced. You can get a Panasonic P50S1 for about $1300.00 on sale at Best Buy here:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9236294&st=p50s1&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1218064394819

And even less from some excellent online retailers like Cleveland Plasma, etc.

Hope this helps!

Marty1080i
06-14-2009, 01:59 AM
Thanks for the updated info PFC5, as there is no BestBuy/Future Shop near me, I will shop around locally for a Panasonic Plasma. I hope they come with at least 3 HDMI inputs, I would also hope to have a VGA and USB if possible. My pc will be hooked up closer to the set than it is now for that reason.

BTW, my budget for the new set will be between $1500-$2000 (in Canadian) I assume a brand new 50" model will be within that price range? Guess I'll find out soon enough. Thanks again!

Anyone else out there with feedback that could help me solidify my decision to go plasma?

Marty1080i
06-14-2009, 07:10 PM
Upon doing some more research and getting price quotes from a local sales person I've narrowed it down to 2 choices. Prices were both quoted as the same $1588.88 (Can) The Pasasonic TCP50U1 was too far over my 2 grand limit after warranty, taxes, etc.
Samsung PN50B530 or
LG 50PS60
I'm leaning toward the LG for a couple reasons: 1. more HDMI inputs, 2. THX picture mode, 3. a wizard mode for enchanced expert calibration options, 4. not only a VGA input, but a USB 2.0 as well. Very Handy! Neither of which the Samsung has.

I realize some folks out there may have problems with LG panels, but apparently the image retention is less an issue with these '09 models, especially after their break-in period. Based on feedback I've read from current owners at least.

Your thoughts?

PFC5
07-29-2009, 10:31 PM
Sorry i didn't see this sooner but I would go with the Samsung over the LG easily based on my personal experiences with LG displays and specifically with my friends issues with 3 LG plasmas.

To add, another reason to possibly choose plasma over LCD if you have young kids who may hit/throw something at the screen (believe me it happens):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcRJnHrsXdw