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Does DLP have a delay with video games? DLP owners please chime in.

Atrayu
06-22-2005, 10:59 PM
I am a future High Def gamer, looking for my first HDTV. I plan on playing my Xbox on it and soon the Xbox360 then the PS3. The HDTV that I have my heart set on is the Samsung HL-P5063W 50" 16:9 Widescreen HDTV Ready DLP TV. It utilizes a DLP3 chip.

Problem is that I have read two reviews that said there was a delay while playing the Xbox. Though I only found 2 reviews that stated this, it is very distressing considering the main reason I am buying this TV is for High Def gaming and DVD watching (sorry, don't watch much TV)

Is this an actual issue with DLP or just with Samsung in general. Has anyone here ever heard of this happening? Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated! ;)

talion83
06-23-2005, 12:43 AM
ALL projection TV's will have a delay when playing games. Most of them, it is pretty minor (I still keep about a 50% hit percentage on halo 2). As for that model samsung...yes, it does have a problem depending upon the input you use. One of their component video inputs says either "DVD" or "480p" while the others say "480/720" (maybe /1080 as well, don't recall off hand).

You need to use the one labeled just 480p...otherwise I have heard of delay issues (samsung says it was due to the upconverting as well as enhancments they run the picture through). Now I don't own this model, and haven't done any serious testing. So i'm not sure if the people just were using the wrong settings on the xbox and that was the issue.

Oh, if you call up samsung or go on their website i do believe they have info on it.

PFC5
06-23-2005, 01:12 AM
ALL projection TV's will have a delay when playing games. Most of them, it is pretty minor (I still keep about a 50% hit percentage on halo 2). As for that model samsung...yes, it does have a problem depending upon the input you use. One of their component video inputs says either "DVD" or "480p" while the others say "480/720" (maybe /1080 as well, don't recall off hand).

You need to use the one labeled just 480p...otherwise I have heard of delay issues (samsung says it was due to the upconverting as well as enhancments they run the picture through). Now I don't own this model, and haven't done any serious testing. So i'm not sure if the people just were using the wrong settings on the xbox and that was the issue.

Oh, if you call up samsung or go on their website i do believe they have info on it.

You are right about the "extra processing" that the Samsungs do. I tried the 46" version of the TV the original poster is looking at (HLP4663W). It had lip-sync with a few DVDs. That was enough for me to return it given all I had read about the hassles of trying to get one that either didn't have the issue or they figured out how to fix it. I don't think they ever/still have fixed it, but they may have made it less noticeable.

I never hooked up our PS2 to it, because it is in my son's room. I would imagine that it would be hard to play many many games that require split timing to play well. Golf, Basebal, Footbal, etc come to mind never mind the shootem ups.

It does seem to be a greater problem with the Samsungs than all others combined from my reading up on the issue.

If gaming is most of the useage for the TV I would suggest the JVC D'ILA tvs. They don't seem to have any issue with gaming, but they dont' have great black levels either. They seem to have the worst blacks of all the current technology, but it should not be a problem for gaming. It actually might help given the dark scenes in many shootem ups.

Atrayu
06-23-2005, 05:10 AM
Thanks for the info guys. I love that Samsung model. Hopefully it is something as easy as using the right component input. I will look through their website for any info.


Samsung has just made a model designed specifically for the Xbox360, so I thought if any Brand would be good with the Xbox, it would be them.

guitarfish
06-23-2005, 05:22 AM
I did a fair amount of reading about this before purchasing my TV. This was ultimately was of the deciding factors for me when not purchasing a xx63 Samsung model. From what I read, only the xx63 models were affected. The other Samsungs seemed to be okay. I play a fair amount of PS2 on my Toshiba 52HM84, and haven't noticed a single delay problem, so I don't believe it to be a problem with DLP technology in general.

Atrayu
06-23-2005, 05:30 AM
OK, I just checked on the website and this is what I read. Looks like as long as you use the Component cables, you should be good. But unfortunetly is sounds like you have to use the L, R cables aswell. That will kill my 5.1 gaming and movie watching.....I don't know. Read this and tell me if that is what you got out of it to.


The time lag you experience when you play games on your DLP TV is caused by the electronic circuitry used to produce High Definition quality pictures. Picture data is momentarily stored in memory and processed to produce high quality video. When you are watching TV programs, the time lag is not an issue, but when you play games, the lag becomes noticeable.

The time lag is most apparent if you have your game console attached to the Composite or S-video inputs on your TV because the TV must do more processing to create high quality video from signals coming through these inputs. To reduce the time lag, attach your game console's video out to your TV's Component video inputs (Component 1 or Component 2). Also, if you attach your game to the Component video inputs, make sure you attach the audio cables from the game console to the audio inputs associated with the Component video input you are using.

JoeyG
06-23-2005, 08:00 AM
It's 1-800-samsung and ask to speak to a tech or product specialist when the customer service person comes on the phone. Ask for someone w/specific knowledge of your question, some sets have more problems with delay. I was told the newer models handle that better.

talion83
06-23-2005, 03:18 PM
the audio has nothing to do with the video. They are just saying make sure you put the audio in the associated audio jacks for the component video input (and yes, as sad as it might be, it is needed to be said...I get people all the time who have video and no audio, or vice versa, and it is due to wrong inputs).

However, sometimes you might notice an off sync between an audio reciever and the TV...you can adjust the audio delay on the reciever to fix the problem (this isn't a brand problem, just a general issue).

jwill8888
06-23-2005, 04:26 PM
I have the HLR6167 with xbox and gamecube hooked up. I havent noticed anything yet....only had the set a week or so. It seems to play just like it did when I had them hooked up to my 36in CRT.

Atrayu
06-23-2005, 05:18 PM
However, sometimes you might notice an off sync between an audio reciever and the TV...you can adjust the audio delay on the reciever to fix the problem (this isn't a brand problem, just a general issue).

Sounds good, but I have never seen an option to adjust any delay on my reciever, generally, under wich option menu is that located at?



I have the HLR6167 with xbox and gamecube hooked up. I havent noticed anything yet....only had the set a week or so. It seems to play just like it did when I had them hooked up to my 36in CRT.

Do you use the component cables? If you do, do you also use the Component audio or do you use a reciever for surround sound? Just wondering if you get some off sync.

jwill8888
06-23-2005, 05:33 PM
Do you use the component cables? If you do, do you also use the Component audio or do you use a reciever for surround sound? Just wondering if you get some off sync.[/QUOTE]


Yes I use component. Audio is optical through reciever. There is a teeeny tiny bit of echo with tv sound and reciever sound on at the same time...I turn the tv all the way down and there are no issues.

Atrayu
06-23-2005, 05:53 PM
Just got off the phone with a Samsung Specialist and he confirmed even with Component video cables, there is still a chance that there will be delays. He said not all games but deffenitly with some games. He advised going with LCD but even then they have reported problems....... :mad:

I have no idea what I am going to do now..... :confused:

PFC5
06-23-2005, 08:23 PM
Just got off the phone with a Samsung Specialist and he confirmed even with Component video cables, there is still a chance that there will be delays. He said not all games but deffenitly with some games. He advised going with LCD but even then they have reported problems....... :mad:

I have no idea what I am going to do now..... :confused:

As I said in a previous post, I have heard a lot of people say that they have NO video lag with their JVC D'ILAs. It is worth looking into on the various forums about whether this is an option for you.

I never hooked my son's PS2 up to my RCA DLP, but I have no lip-sync problems at all with DVDs or the various broadcast signals.

Why don't you just check out other brands of DLPs too? The Samsungs are the brand that is notorious for the lip-sync (video delay) issues, NOT the other brands. Naturally Samsung is going to say that everyone else has the same issue, instead of admitting that it is THEIR ISSUE almost exclusively. Basically what I am saying is cross Samsung off your list of possible RPTVs and move on with due diligence on other brands AND technologies.

Happy Hunting!

Atrayu
06-23-2005, 09:06 PM
Basically what I am saying is cross Samsung off your list of possible RPTVs and move on with due diligence on other brands AND technologies.

Happy Hunting!


Ya...your right. It's just that I was soooooo looking forward to buying that TV,that when I realized it would not be the best option, it kinda took me a while to get over it. :o

I'm gona start my search for the PERFECT GAMING HDTV all over again. I'll look into other brands aswell.....wish me luck :hithere:

Atrayu
06-23-2005, 09:42 PM
PFC5:

OK my man, I took your word on the JVC DILA's because I am determined to buy an HDTV that I can play games on. Surprisingly, the DILA's intrigued me. Check out this puppy and tell me what you think. Also, you mentioned that you read multiple reviews that stated people were able to play games on these with no problems, can you send that link my way, I would be very interested in reading them. :o

Nice looking DILA.. (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=JVCHD52Z575)

PFC5
06-24-2005, 12:08 AM
PFC5:

OK my man, I took your word on the JVC DILA's because I am determined to buy an HDTV that I can play games on. Surprisingly, the DILA's intrigued me. Check out this puppy and tell me what you think. Also, you mentioned that you read multiple reviews that stated people were able to play games on these with no problems, can you send that link my way, I would be very interested in reading them. :o

Nice looking DILA.. (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=JVCHD52Z575)
Glad to help!

I would make sure you can get an extended warranty which includes the bulb with any of these TVs. I am not a big fan of these warranties, but given the high cost and lower than they should be dependability I think it is a wise expense.

First let me tell you what I have heard for the drawbacks to these RPTVs so you can go into it knowing some possible pitfalls.

1. They have not received the greatest reviews on black levels (Contrast).
2. They have also had some problems according to the reveiwers on geometry issues etc.
3. They have had some quirky things going on with the picture on some sets. Of course that could be said about ANY tv.
4. Some have something similar to convergence issues. I cannot remeber the name of it but the initials are CA.
5. Newer technology versus DLP & LCD so there will be more bugs to work out. The jury is still out on how long the LCOS panels will last, and how long JVC can continue to be the only manufacturer to make them cheap enough for "affordable sets. Sony's cheapest version is $13,000.00 and Intel shut down producing LCOS chips claiming low yeilds and high cost to make.

I have never found a quote on the Contrast Ratio of these sets. The other technologies publish them but JVC doesn't. Ask yourself why?

Now the positives:
1. Very good color saturation.
2. No chance for rainbow effect if you are one of the approx. 2% that see them on DLPs.
3. The three color panels are LCOS not LCD and reflect the light from the bulb off of them instead of through them like the LCDs do. They are made with IN-organic materials versus the organic materials used in LCD panels so they will not (supposed to anyway) degrade over time like the LCD panels do.
4. They are very bright TVs which would be good for bright rooms or games. Some have said too bright, but adjustments could fix the too bright issue.
5. I have not heard anyone complain of video lag on games.

You basically said you are interested in mostly using the TV for games. I believe you gave a number of like 80% for games and 20% for TV viewing/DVD movies. Is this correct?

If this is the case, the limited contrast shouldn't be a big issue for you since many games (shoot em ups in particular) are rather dark anyway so you will probably want them brighter than normal for TV/DVD use.

Check out this resourse for gaming. They even have game trading sections.

http://www.onthespotgames.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

You should also check out the new Panasonic LCD 44" set at CC. Here is a link:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panasonic-44-HDTV-PT-44LCX65-/sem/rpsm/oid/123071/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

I would bring my game console into the store with you and hook it up to any TV you might be interested in. Just bring at least ONE 480i game that requires split second timing. Actually make sure they ALL require this.

talion83
06-24-2005, 12:25 AM
check out the new model of samsungs, they may not have the problem the 63w series did (if you prefer the HD2+ to HD3, look at their 77 series...otherwise, the 67 is fine).

I've played on pretty much every type of TV (aside from the JVC DILA) and unless you really look for it, you won't notice a difference. The 63w series of the samsung is the only DLP model I've seen that had that problem.

So I would say don't give up on DLP completely because of that, the delay (from what I've seen) is the same between DLP, LCD projo, and CRT projo.

Atrayu
06-24-2005, 01:49 AM
PFC5:

Thanks for all the help and info. After looking into alot of points you mentioned, it does seem the black levels are not as sharp as with other models, but the fact that the colors are said(by multiple owners) to be so much better and vibrant than most LCD and DLP models, I think it is still a great TV. Though it does seem like the CA problem is by far the most provailent issue. I am not sure if it occurs to some models or all of them. I do know there was a recal on some peticular serial numbers, but it was fixed.

If I find out the CA issue does not effect every JVC HD52Z575, then I will seriously look into buying this model. But I am still keeping an eye out for other possibilities.


Talion83:
As far as the Samsung DLP's. A phone call to Samsung proved that all DLP models recorded delay problems. Sad really.

RSawdey
06-25-2005, 01:33 PM
3. The three color panels are LCOS not LCD and reflect the light from the bulb off of them instead of through them like the LCDs do. They are made with IN-organic materials versus the organic materials used in LCD panels so they will not (supposed to anyway) degrade over time like the LCD panels do.


Not quite correct... the mirrored silicon surface is BEHIND the LC layer, so the light has to pass thru the Liquid Crystals TWICE - once going TO the mirror, again coming back OUT. The inorganics replace SOME of the organic structures but not all... the liquid crystals themselves are often organic. Organic (carbon based) molecules degrade when absorbing certain frequencies of light, mostly in the IR and UV invisible ranges... by filtering those from the light before it goes to the LCD or LCOS imager, lifetime is greatly extended.