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Waiver Question

bryanbcorny
05-24-2005, 06:22 PM
For those of you that have gone the waiver route for local channels. Have you had good luck? I just called last night and put in a waiver to receive the HD network channels. Just wondering what my chances are?

koolz71
05-24-2005, 07:39 PM
For those of you that have gone the waiver route for local channels. Have you had good luck? I just called last night and put in a waiver to receive the HD network channels. Just wondering what my chances are?


id say if u can, get an OTA antenna and pull em in for free:) thats what i did

Snoman
05-24-2005, 10:53 PM
I live about 65 miles south of Seattle, Wa. I applied for the local networks and was shot down on all of them. I can't receive any of the local's via antenna either. I'm not sure why they shot me down.....Good luck !

wood123
05-25-2005, 07:11 AM
I live about 25 miles SE of Seattle. If i understand the question, you want to recieve local channels in HD via D*TV - correct? If so then you are out of luck because D*tv does not have all the local channels in HD. You should get the local channels in ST.

GRN
05-25-2005, 08:46 AM
I live about 65 miles south of Seattle, Wa. I applied for the local networks and was shot down on all of them. I can't receive any of the local's via antenna either. I'm not sure why they shot me down.....Good luck!Snoman, this applies to you and anyone else who applies for a waiver and gets shot down: The feeds you get from DirecTV are distant network signals (DSN). As in, feeds from either LA or NY with advertising for LA & NY. They're not local channels, per se.

Local stations get paid a lot of money for advertising. But if someone can get a DSN, that means that he or she is not going to be watching the local channel with the local avdertising. Which means that ratings go down on the local channel, and suddenly advertisers are going to start griping because they're paying a ton of money for ads that are not being seen.

In other words: Let's say Joe's Steakhouse pays $200,000 (hypothetically; I have no clue what the real number would be) for a 2-minute spot on the local channel, KLOC. But the station starts granting waivers to people who want to get KCBS-HD from Los Angeles because the local does not offer HD programming. So now, more people are watching KCBS than KLOC. But Joe's is still paying $200,000 for that spot even though viewership is down. So now Joe's is upset and wants reduced rates because KLOC is not delivering the viewership it promised. It comes down to dollars and cents. It actually winds up hurting the local if they start granting a ton of waivers.

It's a different situation for local channels in SD, because DirecTV offers those. HD locals, or any HD channel in general, take up a TON of bandwidth. With the current satellites, it's impossible to offer locals in HD because there's not enough bandwidth. Until they get the new bird(s) up and start offering locals in HD, though, you'll probably continue running into problems with local stations granting waivers.

wolfiefan
05-25-2005, 03:56 PM
I just spoke with DirectTV this week about this same issue. They told me that if I subscribe to my local channels through them that I am eligible to receive the HD feeds of the New York feeds at no additional fee. It didnt make total sense...but if I can get the 4 major networks in HD through DirectTV for nothing additional....why not do it. I had applied for these about a year ago and got denied because they didnt have waivers just for HD back then..but now they do and it isnt even a waiver anymore...you just have to ask for it as long as you pay for your local channels through them.

GRN
05-25-2005, 04:30 PM
I just spoke with DirectTV this week about this same issue. They told me that if I subscribe to my local channels through them that I am eligible to receive the HD feeds of the New York feeds at no additional fee. It didnt make total sense...but if I can get the 4 major networks in HD through DirectTV for nothing additional....why not do it. I had applied for these about a year ago and got denied because they didnt have waivers just for HD back then..but now they do and it isnt even a waiver anymore...you just have to ask for it as long as you pay for your local channels through them.
Actually, that part is true: If you subscribe to local channels, you can get the HD feeds at no additional cost.

However, as far as I know, you still need a waiver if you are not in one of the O&O markets as specified on their website. I suspect that the customer service rep you spoke to didn't give you the whole story. If you are not in one of those markets, they cannot just turn on the channels for you; you need to submit a waiver. Believe me, enough people on this forum have tried to do it, only to get met with "we can't turn them on; you need to submit a waiver".

bryanbcorny
05-25-2005, 08:32 PM
GRN-

That was my question...I do get local channels here in the Orlando area, but I cannot receive the HD feed as the local towers are too far away. I applied for the waiver to receive the NY network feed. My question was how many of you have been approved for this option? What the CSR person at DTV told me was Fox tends to be the easiest one to get this feed as most of their networks are owned by the the big Network. But I am really hoping that we get the approval for the network HD!

GRN
05-25-2005, 10:28 PM
GRN-

That was my question...I do get local channels here in the Orlando area, but I cannot receive the HD feed as the local towers are too far away. I applied for the waiver to receive the NY network feed. My question was how many of you have been approved for this option? What the CSR person at DTV told me was Fox tends to be the easiest one to get this feed as most of their networks are owned by the the big Network. But I am really hoping that we get the approval for the network HD!
Being in Orlando, you should be able to get Fox-HD from DirecTV without a waiver, since Orlando, FL is one of the O&O markets.

The whole thing with waivers is that if you can get a Grade B or better signal from an affiliate station, then you have to get a waiver, even if you are in an O&O market. It's not an exact science. That is what is so confusing about getting these DSN feeds. No two cases are the same. You might get an OK on your waivers, but a house two blocks over may not.

FYI I live in NY, and get all my locals OTA with an antenna, so the waiver scenario doesn't apply to me. As far as how many people have successfully gotten them, I'll turn that discussion over to whoever has had success. :)

finaldiet
05-26-2005, 08:17 AM
I applied for waivers and was told I would have to apply. They determine waivers by address in your O&O area. Called the next day and person I talked to told me to wait while he checked. Came back and asked if they were on. Had to wait till I got home to check and sure enough, they were on. A week after that I received card in mail stating all waivers were granted. Go figure. :D

Traak
05-26-2005, 09:27 PM
For those of you that have gone the waiver route for local channels. Have you had good luck? I just called last night and put in a waiver to receive the HD network channels. Just wondering what my chances are?

I live 70 miles south of Cleveland and 60 miles North of Columbus Ohio and can not get OTA feeds. I was able to get CBS, ABC and FOX. NBC said no at this time. I can live with that for a few more months until I get all my Cleveland feeds in HD..just a few more months..hang in there.. :)

RMcSlash
05-27-2005, 09:51 AM
OK, I have two networks as DNS/HD feeds as O&O's these you should get just by asking, if you have locals that are owned by the network.
I also have two networks through DNS waivers. That was a seven week battle with D*. Lot's of misinformation from CSR's that changed with what knowledge I showed. At the time, this winter, D* was denying all waiver request and not accepting waivers that subs had recieived on their own.
I do recommend requesting these waivers yourself and not waiting for D*.
I backed up my request with statements from the FCC: Which I posted here (http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost.php?p=34538&postcount=8) .

I also posted more info and addresses here (http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost.php?p=39638&postcount=13) , and finally using snail mail to corporate offices I received what I asked for.
I think it is strange that DirecTV calls the O&O grants waivers when they have a deal with the nets to allow just that thing. Technically waivers are granted by locally owned affiliates to allow D* to give you the Distant Network Signal.

kwsmith
06-04-2005, 06:19 AM
I receive my local channels in SD via DirecTV. They are considered "local", even though the nearest station is 70 miles away and the transmitters are even more distant than that. I live in a hilly-mountainous area of West Virginia and have never been able to receive "local" stations via an OTA antenna. Reception of Digital or HD signals from these stations is even more impossible. I contacted DTV yesterday about getting the distant network HD feeds. I was told that since I receive the SD local channels, I am ineligible to get the distant HD channels. When I requested that DTV initiate the waiver process the rep refused, stating that I would have to contact the local stations myself. When I insisted that the satellite provider is the one who is required by law to request the waivers, he said he would check and put me on hold for about 5 minutes. When he came back, he repeated that I would have to request the waivers from the local stations myself, and that if they were granted DTV would turn on the HD feeds. However, this morning when I checked the web sites of two of my local stations, both state that waiver requests must come from the satellite provider and that they will not respond to any requests submitted by individuals. It appears that I am between the proverbial "rock and a hard place" on this one. Is there any info or advice anyone can offer about my situation?

Ancient 1
06-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Appears they make up the rules on this as they go along, with no rhyme or reason to their decisions or actions. I have for some time paid extra each month to receive network feeds from ABC, CBS and FOX. When the HD feeds for these networks were added, I asked about getting NBC as well. I was advised they would have to apply for a waiver for me, but when I got the confirming paperwork, I found they had applied to ALL the networks - even though I had been receiving 3 of them for years with no problem. The results were that ABC and CBS (along with NBC, of course) were now denying me access! I never asked that they even be contacted - DirecTV took that upon themselves. I live over 100 miles from the Sacramento, CA transmitters, so now have no access to network HD at all. No one at DirecTV will accept any blame or responsibility, of course. They say they have no control over the problem. I am still waiting for an explanation as to why I have been paying for these feeds for years, if I am not supposed to be getting them.

hokejhra
06-06-2005, 06:39 PM
i live in kansas city area and have been able to get fox and nbc in hd, cbs and abc said no, we can get the hd by an off air antena for cbs and abc so i guess we get them all somehow

mikejlan
06-11-2005, 02:54 PM
Appears they make up the rules on this as they go along, with no rhyme or reason to their decisions or actions. I have for some time paid extra each month to receive network feeds from ABC, CBS and FOX. When the HD feeds for these networks were added, I asked about getting NBC as well. I was advised they would have to apply for a waiver for me, but when I got the confirming paperwork, I found they had applied to ALL the networks - even though I had been receiving 3 of them for years with no problem. The results were that ABC and CBS (along with NBC, of course) were now denying me access! I never asked that they even be contacted - DirecTV took that upon themselves. I live over 100 miles from the Sacramento, CA transmitters, so now have no access to network HD at all. No one at DirecTV will accept any blame or responsibility, of course. They say they have no control over the problem. I am still waiting for an explanation as to why I have been paying for these feeds for years, if I am not supposed to be getting them.The same thing happened to me a couple years ago. It was before I was interested in HDTV. I had been receiving all the east and west feeds of PBS CBS NBC ABC and FOX. Then I got a phone call from directv saying if I didn't pay my past due balance they were shutting off my service. I paid over the phone exactly how much the rep asked and a day later my service was off. I called in and paid off everything (the first rep gave me the wrong amount) to get service up. They said that now I was considered new to the channels PBS CBS NBC ABC and FOX and could not receive them without a waiver that I had to take care of. Needless to say, I still cannot get those channels. IT is worse now because the out of market stations broadcast in HD and my "locals" don't. THEY STINK.

RMcSlash
06-13-2005, 04:12 AM
Request these waivers of the locals yourself, don't count on DirecTV. Direct wil tell you they got you a waiver, when they are just giving you your O&O's. O&O's do not require waivers. Very few people have ever received a waiver that D* has supposedly reqested. I actually received a waiver fron my NBC local in response to my request, the very day that D* told me that I had been denied by NBC. Once you get a waiver then you must fight D* to accept it. I have made several posts here and at AVS detailing my long but sucessful campaign to get HD DNS.
Also, it seems as if some locals are getting stingier as HD LIL approaches, if the local doesn't give up a waiver there is no recourse.

tase2
07-13-2005, 09:05 AM
Snoman, this applies to you and anyone else who applies for a waiver and gets shot down: The feeds you get from DirecTV are distant network signals (DSN). As in, feeds from either LA or NY with advertising for LA & NY. They're not local channels, per se.

Local stations get paid a lot of money for advertising. But if someone can get a DSN, that means that he or she is not going to be watching the local channel with the local avdertising. Which means that ratings go down on the local channel, and suddenly advertisers are going to start griping because they're paying a ton of money for ads that are not being seen.

In other words: Let's say Joe's Steakhouse pays $200,000 (hypothetically; I have no clue what the real number would be) for a 2-minute spot on the local channel, KLOC. But the station starts granting waivers to people who want to get KCBS-HD from Los Angeles because the local does not offer HD programming. So now, more people are watching KCBS than KLOC. But Joe's is still paying $200,000 for that spot even though viewership is down. So now Joe's is upset and wants reduced rates because KLOC is not delivering the viewership it promised. It comes down to dollars and cents. It actually winds up hurting the local if they start granting a ton of waivers.

It's a different situation for local channels in SD, because DirecTV offers those. HD locals, or any HD channel in general, take up a TON of bandwidth. With the current satellites, it's impossible to offer locals in HD because there's not enough bandwidth. Until they get the new bird(s) up and start offering locals in HD, though, you'll probably continue running into problems with local stations granting waivers.


Trying not to be the least bit facetious, but I am curious as to why the above scenerio is allowed with my local Comcast Cable Company.
In my zip code-06492-(central CT) per my cable company allows us to get all the major networks from both New York and Hartford-New Haven. So in that case I was able to watch NY stations all the time and not have to watch local CT advertising.

I realize not all CT cable companies offered both CT & NY stations, but shouldn't it be consistant that our zip code area should receive the same coverage on both the Sat and Cable?

So in my case it is really not the "national feed" that I am inquiring about, it is that we want our NY channels too.

Thanks for any comments or information you can share.

Mark

bdrucker
07-14-2005, 05:13 AM
I agree that the whole waiver thing is hit and miss. I applied for waivers (I live in Washington, DC) and received Fox the next day, but was denied by all of the ohers. My friend, who lives right down the street, got NBC and Fox, so it seems to be not very consistent. But, I bid on and won an HDTV powered indoor antenna through EBAY for 47 cents!!! Put it on and voila -- I get my local NBC, Fox, and CBS in stunning, perfect HD!!! Still working on ABC.

Bruno
07-14-2005, 07:30 AM
But, I bid on and won an HDTV powered indoor antenna through EBAY for 47 cents!!!

I have to ask. What was the thought process there for not going up to a full 50 cents on that bid?

bdrucker
07-14-2005, 07:47 AM
Starting bid from the offeror was 47 cents, so that is what I bid. I did state a maximum bid up to $5 if anyone else actually bid on it.

tase2
07-17-2005, 12:50 PM
I received my official response postcard. I already knew that only NBC was granted.

But I received a letter from my local CBS affiliate that went as follows:

Thank you for your interest in seeing more CBS in high definition. With our maximum power transmitter you now get a great signal in Wallingford. As a resident of Connecticut you do not qualify for a waiver. We are delighted that you can watch CBS in high definition on Channel 33-WFSB. We hope you enjoy CBS in high definition.

Sincerely

Program Administrator.

OK a couple of things

My OTA only picks up the signal maybe 5% of the time and never stays clear for more than 20 minutes. So I do not get a great signal in Wallingford.

They mention watching CBS HD on channel 33.
WFSB is channel 3. So as far as I knew the HD was on channel 3.1.
Channel 33 on D* is a "Channel not available"
I know I must be missing something here. Anyone know what this channel 33 is all about? Also, if my OTA does not pick up the signal, shouldn't I be entitled to a waiver?


Thanks
Mark

lizardhowson
07-17-2005, 06:11 PM
Have you tried scanning for channel 33 using your OTA and whatever tuner/sat box you have the OTA hooked to ???

I get OTA channels on 34 (34-1 thru box), 51, 53, etc


:hithere:

calicogang
07-20-2005, 02:24 AM
Since I signed up in Sept of last year, I was granfathered in under the old law. I get my locals and SD and HD from L.A and N.Y. I live over 80 miles from the tower. Starting in Sept I will also get my locals in HD from DTV. I may or may not get to keep HD from both coasts.

bigdawg
07-26-2005, 02:13 PM
For the uninitiated, can someone please explain...I live in NY and get the eastcoast feeds of the HD ABC, FOX, NBC, and CBS. Is there something I can do to get them to turn on the west coast feeds of those same channels???

ivanl
07-26-2005, 02:30 PM
No, you can only get one or the other. This waiver is for people unable to get an HD feed in their area (usually rural). If their local network affiliates grant them a waiver they are allowed to get the feeds from LA or NY (whichever is closer). Very rarely are the waivers granted.

ovredcoat
07-26-2005, 06:40 PM
Not true IvanL....................I live in WV and
get both the NY and LA HD feeds........except for NBC, because I can get a grade b signal for them, because it is a local channel. I get their HD signal with OTA.
Anyone saying you can only get one or the other needs to read the FCC/Shera act. It states you get up to two different network feed of the same network by DNS, if it is not an earlier time zone than in which you live. In other words, someone in Utah cannot get east coast feeds, but someone in Cleveland could get a west coast feed (in addition to the east coast feed because it is in the same time zone).

ivanl
07-26-2005, 08:23 PM
First I ever heard that....I could be wrong on this. Would someone on the East Coast have to pay a fee to get the West Coast Feeds? My service adress ;) is in major O&O city in the east. Could I just call DTV and ask for the West coast feed to be added to my account? Would they fight me or is this common knowledge in DTV? I am reluctant to fight DTV too hard on issues any more since I rented out my new apt in that major east coast city and changed my service address to be there? Is there a fee? Would I only get the std def west coast feeds or the HD too?

GRN
07-26-2005, 09:15 PM
Could I just call DTV and ask for the West coast feed to be added to my account? Would they fight me or is this common knowledge in DTV? I am reluctant to fight DTV too hard on issues any more since I rented out my new apt in that major east coast city and changed my service address to be there? Is there a fee? Would I only get the std def west coast feeds or the HD too?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Do it at your own risk. If you go back on this thread, there seems to be no rhyme nor reason for DirecTV giving you HD feeds. So many people have posted horror stories where DirecTV just shut off their HD DNS feeds for no reason, then when they called to complain, were told that they had to write to the network and get a waiver. Needless to say, they didn't get their HD DNS feeds back

If you're getting your east coast feeds I wouldn't rock the boat, because in the end you might wind up with nothing.

JTS
08-08-2005, 04:33 PM
I live about 30 miles south east of Seattle. I was granted waivers for all except NBC. I recieve both east coast and west coast feeds for Fox/ABC/CBS. I do pay an extra fee for those plus a fee for my locals.

My neighbor has the same waivers although he recently recieved a notice from D* informing him that his east coast feeds would be turn off Sept 1st.

anyone else get this notice?

mrm64
08-19-2005, 11:44 AM
I live in Georgia and I receive a notice that my west coast feed from LA will stop on August 25. It was good while it lasted. Also the notice said the law had been changed, so if this is true we can't blame Directv but rather the government.

RMcSlash
08-20-2005, 02:19 PM
This law has been in place since December 2004, did they just find another paragraph? D* has been hiding behind the SHVERA since it was enacted.
DirecTV wants you to give up all your SD/DNS to keep one of your HD/DNS, then 12-18 months from now, when HD/LIL's are available to 75%-85% of the country, your local affiliates will begin pulling your waivers. DNS bothers affiliates and through the National Association of Broadcasters they are bringing unrelenting pressure on Direct. Blame the NAB if you need to blame anybody. Direct is not required to supply any DNS signals anywhere.

tnmountain
01-13-2007, 06:13 PM
Hi! had Directv for 10 years-- I have national feeds.I was told my National feeds will not be disconnected as long as i paymy bill on time.I was grandfathered in with the new law. I was only able to get Foxhd --I was turned down on all the other national feeds.National feeds are not cheap.Its adds like $20.00 extra to my bill