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480hz vs 120hz?

akasixcon
11-17-2008, 12:10 PM
what is the 'hz' regarding in a plasma screen tv?
What is the difference between the 480hz and the 120hz plasma screen tv?
Is it noticable?
By how much %? Is it the lower the better or the higher the better? Any other definition?

rbinck
11-17-2008, 12:22 PM
The Hz referrs to the rate the screen is updated. Higher the better, generally. 120 Hz is a multiple of 24, 30 and 60 so every frame rate is covered. I don't know anything about 480 Hz. Must be a misprint. Where did you see this?

admo
11-17-2008, 12:35 PM
The 480hz thing is probably the panasonic plasma thingymajig which means very little. It's some fancy marketing thing as far as I can tell that has very little to do with LCD's rated at 120Hz. I wouldn't worry about it.

akasixcon
11-17-2008, 12:36 PM
So just to rephrase, getting a 480hz is no different than getting a 120hz for a plasma screen tv?

PFC5
11-17-2008, 03:27 PM
Plasma screens have a refresh rate of only 60hz not 120hz. The 120hz is just for LCDs, but the response time for screen redraws with plasma is measured in nanoseconds compared to milliseconds for LCD. The 480hz mention in the Panasonic specs is for the sub-pixel field response time which is different.

I think Panasonic intentionally stated this with ambiguity to try to convey that plasmas are much much faster with response times compared to LCD panels,
but they could have done stated the fact clearer and more honestly IMO.

What it comes down to is that LCD NEEDS the 120hz refresh rate (different from response time) BECAUSE of the much slower response times compared to plasma. Plasmas do not need this faster refresh rate though, and is STILL much faster than the LCDs with the 120hz refresh rates, and without changing the way motion is seen which many do not like when watching movies activating the 120hz feature.

BrianO
11-17-2008, 04:57 PM
The 480hz thing is probably the panasonic plasma thingymajig which means very little. It's some fancy marketing thing as far as I can tell that has very little to do with LCD's rated at 120Hz. I wouldn't worry about it.

The 480Hz "Sub-Field Drive" found on Panasonic plasma TVs is a behind-the-scenes motion enhancement scheme and is not the same thing as screen refresh rate. If you look at the detailed specs for the TVs featuring the scheme you'll find that the actual screen refresh rate is 60 Hz on all of them.

akasixcon
11-17-2008, 05:21 PM
so on a plasma screen tv what are the difference between 120 hz of sub field drive and 480 hz of sub field drive? I assume the higher the numbers the better?

the vigilante
11-21-2008, 06:47 AM
Now anybody reading this thread I'm assuming is in the process, or knows someone in the process of buying a new TV. With that said...

PLASMA IS THE WAY TO GO!!! SERIOUSLY!!!

Why?

1. Affordable. Usually around half the price of an equivalent sized LCD 120Hz TV.

Gives you room to get the other things you need like... Expensive HDMI cables, Blue Ray player, TVstand or mount, maybe a surround sound to complete your home theatre, and finally any protection services to cover it all...usually STILL falling well below the purchase of just an LCD 120Hz by itself.

2. Better motion clarity. 480Hz.

LCD's have motion-blur problem when lots of things move quickly on the screen (like when the camera pans). To solve this, some LCD's draw the image twice as often (120 times per second...120Hz) which reduces the blur. Plasmas dont have the same problem. They are much faster to begin with since they are a gas, so they dont need to refresh the screen twice as fast. But behind both of these televisions is software that processes the image. The faster the processor - the better the image is with complex fast moving images. If you research a term called "Sub-Field" pertaining to plasmas, you may get some results stating that there is some sort of false marketing tactic involved to compete with 120Hz LCD's which is quite silly. It is simply just a different technology.

3. Lifespan. Especially with Panasonic's Viera line.100,000 hour life expectancy.

Do the math... 8 hours a day, every day for 10 years straight will still only land you around a cunsumption of 30,000 hours!

4. Brilliant, vivid color. Welcome to the gas spectrum.

Plasmas have a very low-luminance "dark-room" black level compared to the lighter grey of the unilluminated parts of an LCD screen.

5. Cosmetic protection. Protective panel vs. exposed mat finish of LCD's.

Plasma's always have a protective panel in which they sit behind. Look at an LCD...as a matter of fact, touch it. Watch it smudge and blur as you move across the screen. This is a potential problem. Not that you would intentionally grope your screen at random but, your screen is exposed to damage. Any contact could potentially scar your tv. Have kids? A simple toy or trinket of some sort could do the trick. Plasmas? Not a chance. Also, the LCD screens are directly exposed to dust and moisture, and when cleaning them, you wipe the actual mat finish itself. With plasmas you will never make contact with anything but the protective panel.

You want to save even more cash? As a person who just recently purchased a plasma TV (Panasonic Viera TH50PZ80U) I would suggest going to Circuit City instead of Best Buy, Sears, or Wal-Mart, simply becuase Circuit City is has a lowest price guarantee. Basically, instead of just matching the price of competitors like most retailers do, Circuit City will beat them by 10%. If its a $1000.00 TV you're looking at, thats $100.00 you save instantly. Additionally, they have a 60 day unbeatable price guarantee. If something you purchased should go on sale within 60 days after your purchase date, Circuit City will give you back the difference! And the cherry on top of the cake is that this also apllies to all competitors prices too! How do I know all this?...I just got $250.00 back myself! lol.
Anyways, I know its a long post, but hopefully informative and helpfull.

marcallo
11-21-2008, 07:34 AM
Yeah send everyone to CC which is going to be out of business very shortly. Also LCD and Plasma are both great technologies and both have their place. If you're like me and have tons of ambient lighting and play a lot of video games an LCD is better. There is no "best" answer. which is probably why both technologies exist in the first place.

akasixcon
11-21-2008, 07:43 AM
Now anybody reading this thread I'm assuming is in the process, or knows someone in the process of buying a new TV. With that said...

PLASMA IS THE WAY TO GO!!! SERIOUSLY!!!

Why?

1. Affordable. Usually around half the price of an equivalent sized LCD 120Hz TV.

Gives you room to get the other things you need like... Expensive HDMI cables, Blue Ray player, TVstand or mount, maybe a surround sound to complete your home theatre, and finally any protection services to cover it all...usually STILL falling well below the purchase of just an LCD 120Hz by itself.

2. Better motion clarity. 480Hz.

LCD's have motion-blur problem when lots of things move quickly on the screen (like when the camera pans). To solve this, some LCD's draw the image twice as often (120 times per second...120Hz) which reduces the blur. Plasmas dont have the same problem. They are much faster to begin with since they are a gas, so they dont need to refresh the screen twice as fast. But behind both of these televisions is software that processes the image. The faster the processor - the better the image is with complex fast moving images. If you research a term called "Sub-Field" pertaining to plasmas, you may get some results stating that there is some sort of false marketing tactic involved to compete with 120Hz LCD's which is quite silly. It is simply just a different technology.

3. Lifespan. Especially with Panasonic's Viera line.100,000 hour life expectancy.

Do the math... 8 hours a day, every day for 10 years straight will still only land you around a cunsumption of 30,000 hours!

4. Brilliant, vivid color. Welcome to the gas spectrum.

Plasmas have a very low-luminance "dark-room" black level compared to the lighter grey of the unilluminated parts of an LCD screen.

5. Cosmetic protection. Protective panel vs. exposed mat finish of LCD's.

Plasma's always have a protective panel in which they sit behind. Look at an LCD...as a matter of fact, touch it. Watch it smudge and blur as you move across the screen. This is a potential problem. Not that you would intentionally grope your screen at random but, your screen is exposed to damage. Any contact could potentially scar your tv. Have kids? A simple toy or trinket of some sort could do the trick. Plasmas? Not a chance. Also, the LCD screens are directly exposed to dust and moisture, and when cleaning them, you wipe the actual mat finish itself. With plasmas you will never make contact with anything but the protective panel.

You want to save even more cash? As a person who just recently purchased a plasma TV (Panasonic Viera TH50PZ80U) I would suggest going to Circuit City instead of Best Buy, Sears, or Wal-Mart, simply becuase Circuit City is has a lowest price guarantee. Basically, instead of just matching the price of competitors like most retailers do, Circuit City will beat them by 10%. If its a $1000.00 TV you're looking at, thats $100.00 you save instantly. Additionally, they have a 60 day unbeatable price guarantee. If something you purchased should go on sale within 60 days after your purchase date, Circuit City will give you back the difference! And the cherry on top of the cake is that this also apllies to all competitors prices too! How do I know all this?...I just got $250.00 back myself! lol.
Anyways, I know its a long post, but hopefully informative and helpfull.
You sure about beating it by 10%?

If thats the case I'm returning my current tv for circuit city's price beating...

Ruark
11-21-2008, 09:03 AM
PLASMA IS THE WAY TO GO!!! SERIOUSLY!!!


Oh, no... PLEASE... let's not let the "HDDVD vs. Blu-Ray" debate metamorphose into a "plasma vs. lcd" debate. They both have pros and cons - do some research on Google. I'd personally prefer an LCD because they're lighter and easier to calibrate, and modern top-line LCDs show colors and blacks as well as any plasma. Many of the "pros and cons" you hear about both are seriously outdated. Educate yourself.

Ruark

PFC5
11-21-2008, 02:14 PM
Oh, no... PLEASE... let's not let the "HDDVD vs. Blu-Ray" debate metamorphose into a "plasma vs. lcd" debate. They both have pros and cons - do some research on Google. I'd personally prefer an LCD because they're lighter and easier to calibrate, and modern top-line LCDs show colors and blacks as well as any plasma. Many of the "pros and cons" you hear about both are seriously outdated. Educate yourself.

Ruark

Only the LED back light based LCDs have been measured to have equivalent black levels to plasmas according to the pro reviewers who measure this. Have you looked at the PRICE of LED based back lit LCDs? :eek:

I agree that there are pros/cons to each tech, but owning 2 LCDs and my plasma the plasma is MUCH better with black levels when both are calibrated. Some may be more sensitive to this in which I am likely included, but I like to see black as black myself so I prefer plasmas.

When they get the LED based LCDs with 120Hz refresh rates to the same prices as plasmas, then I will consider them again for my movie displays. ;)

the vigilante
11-22-2008, 10:43 PM
Yeah send everyone to CC which is going to be out of business very shortly.

Lol...Wow... Marcallo you are suprisingly ignorant. First off, even if they did go out of business (which you seem to be certain of...lol), that wouldnt change the fact that you get the TV for the lowest price. LOL and it would be irrelevant if they actually did go under, because you would already have the TV. But I do find it funny that in a debate between LCD's and Plasma's, you were more concerned about Circuit City, than you were the two technologies the forum is actually about.

For anyone who is now confused from Marcallo's ignorance, I will tell you this... I did some research before adding the following. Circuit City filed for what is called "Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection" (Google it)... key word "PROTECTION". They are simply re-organizing their company. They closed down 100+ stores, yes, but still have 600+ in the US, and 700+ in Canada. This tactic is used to AVOID future losses. Just a little tip...Best Buy was in this same position alittle over 10 years ago and they are still here today. Its quite simple to keep yourself accurately informed. =)

the vigilante
11-22-2008, 10:57 PM
Oh, no... PLEASE... let's not let the "HDDVD vs. Blu-Ray" debate metamorphose into a "plasma vs. lcd" debate. They both have pros and cons - do some research on Google. I'd personally prefer an LCD because they're lighter and easier to calibrate, and modern top-line LCDs show colors and blacks as well as any plasma. Many of the "pros and cons" you hear about both are seriously outdated. Educate yourself.

Ruark

Wow...lol you remind me of Marcallo with your "Educate yourself" comment. I realized while reading your post that you are just as sadly ignorant.

LCD's are lighter? Alittle... but it has no effect on mounting the TV to a wall, or putting it on a stand. I guess that would matter if you take your TV on a daily walk... but other than that...little significance. Educate yourself.

Easier to Calibrate? LOL, now thats funny... Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are basing that off of the fact that Plasmas run alittle hotter... which is true, but again, not too significantly. But the calibration process and cost is the same. Educate yourself.

Modern LCD's show colors and blacks like any plasma? LOL now thats the best one of all. That is the only REAL dumb thing youve said. Heres why.
LCD's, of course, are a Liquid Crystal Display, that rely on a backlight to display the images. A BACKLIGHT. Even when the screen is black...there is a light behind it. Plasmas are simply a gas that react to heat. NO BACKLIGHT. So when the screen is black, its black. Educate yourself.

the vigilante
11-22-2008, 11:05 PM
You sure about beating it by 10%?

If thats the case I'm returning my current tv for circuit city's price beating...

Actually I was alittle off on that. You save 10% the DIFFERENCE of the two prices.

EXAMPLE: TV is $1000.00.... The competitors is $800.00.... so the difference is $200.00.... 10% of the difference is $20.00... So you would pay $780.00.... But still its the lowest price. And you also have 60 days where if i goes on sale again somewhere even cheaper they match that price.

Sorry about that, and thank you for pointing that out. =)

thepowerofplas
12-19-2008, 10:24 AM
Who cares what is better, the phrase "to each his own" is the only thing that applies here. Whats the difference if I have a plasma and you have a lcd? If that is what you like, you go ahead and be happy with it, its your own right. Notice how samsung and panasonic both make plasma and lcd's within their own brand? Do they sit there and tell you which is better, no, they give you the option to buy either one, depending on your preference. Thats all this is a preference, and people like they always do with everything else, is turn this into a preference war when it makes no difference. Serves no purpose other than to make people upset.

1080peon
12-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Who cares what is better, the phrase "to each his own" is the only thing that applies here. Whats the difference if I have a plasma and you have a lcd? If that is what you like, you go ahead and be happy with it, its your own right. Notice how samsung and panasonic both make plasma and lcd's within their own brand? Do they sit there and tell you which is better, no, they give you the option to buy either one, depending on your preference. Thats all this is a preference, and people like they do with everything else is turn preference into a war. Serves no purpose other than to make people upset.

The name calling starts when someone wants to try and make themselves feel better about a big purchase like a flat screen TV. I have a plasma, my bro-in-law has plasma, but my two best friends have LCD. All 4 TV's look incredible. All 4 of us picked our TV for different reasons. It doesn't mean any of us are right or wrong.

Calling someone 'ignorant' for offering advice to someone is ridiculous. Having an opinion does not make one ignorant. Calling someone names on the other hand.....

thepowerofplas
12-19-2008, 10:52 AM
The name calling starts when someone wants to try and make themselves feel better about a big purchase like a flat screen TV. I have a plasma, my bro-in-law has plasma, but my two best friends have LCD. All 4 TV's look incredible. All 4 of us picked our TV for different reasons. It doesn't mean any of us are right or wrong.

Calling someone 'ignorant' for offering advice to someone is ridiculous. Having an opinion does not make one ignorant. Calling someone names on the other hand.....

Yea, I know someone who everytime we talk about TV's wants to sit and tell me why LCD's are so great and better than plasma's, and I say, "thats great man they LCD's are's great TV's." So anyways I am glad we all are different, instead of arguing would, it not be easier to say "man those are great, Im glad you like them so much cause thats what you like!"

I have some plasma's, however when I go to my freinds houses some have plasma's, some have lcd's and some have DLP's. I enjoy watching the game on all of them and don stress cause they dont have a plasma or lcd or dlp, Im just happy its a great picture and in HD and doing something with freinds. Thats all that really matter anyways, in the end...At least it should.

mizerock
01-04-2009, 02:03 PM
Is it really true that the fastest refresh rate with plasma is 60hz? That would mean that 24p mode is always going to be 3:2 (repeated frames), which sounds like a bad deal for watching movies.

Lee Stewart
01-04-2009, 03:29 PM
Is it really true that the fastest refresh rate with plasma is 60hz? That would mean that 24p mode is always going to be 3:2 (repeated frames), which sounds like a bad deal for watching movies.

The Pioneer Kuro's have a refresh rate of 72Hz for 24P content and ONLY for 24P content. It is automatic. If the display detects 24P it goes into 72Hz mode. If not - it stays in 60 Hz mode.

Lee Stewart
01-04-2009, 03:30 PM
http://www.highdefforum.com/upcoming-display-technologies/86284-lg-display-plans-melt-eyes-trumotion-480hz-lcd-tv.html

SantaPimp27
01-04-2009, 03:40 PM
Yeah send everyone to CC which is going to be out of business very shortly. Also LCD and Plasma are both great technologies and both have their place. If you're like me and have tons of ambient lighting and play a lot of video games an LCD is better. There is no "best" answer. which is probably why both technologies exist in the first place.

yes the fact that u have a lot of ambient light would be a reason to get an lcd.. but then you say you play a lot of video games?? thats a reason to get a plasma because they have no motion lag.. just seemed like you contradicted yourself there

Lol...Wow... Marcallo you are suprisingly ignorant. First off, even if they did go out of business (which you seem to be certain of...lol), that wouldnt change the fact that you get the TV for the lowest price. LOL and it would be irrelevant if they actually did go under, because you would already have the TV. But I do find it funny that in a debate between LCD's and Plasma's, you were more concerned about Circuit City, than you were the two technologies the forum is actually about.

For anyone who is now confused from Marcallo's ignorance, I will tell you this... I did some research before adding the following. Circuit City filed for what is called "Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection" (Google it)... key word "PROTECTION". They are simply re-organizing their company. They closed down 100+ stores, yes, but still have 600+ in the US, and 700+ in Canada. This tactic is used to AVOID future losses. Just a little tip...Best Buy was in this same position alittle over 10 years ago and they are still here today. Its quite simple to keep yourself accurately informed. =)

you seem to have done your research but i think the reason for not going to circuit city is if they did happen to shut down, you would lose the extended warranty from the store.. it has nothing to do with how much you paid for the tv

PFC5
01-04-2009, 05:24 PM
yes the fact that u have a lot of ambient light would be a reason to get an lcd.. but then you say you play a lot of video games?? thats a reason to get a plasma because they have no motion lag.. just seemed like you contradicted yourself there



you seem to have done your research but i think the reason for not going to circuit city is if they did happen to shut down, you would lose the extended warranty from the store.. it has nothing to do with how much you paid for the tv

CC made a comment that the extended warranties are handled by a 3rd party insurance company so IF CC went out of business, the extended warranty would still be covered by this 3rd party.

It is always best to do your own due diligence and check this type of thing out in case things change though. ;)