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BREAKING - "DIRECTV WILL CHARGE EXTRA $99 FOR HD BROADCAST ON NFL Sunday Ticket"

Smthkd
05-13-2005, 10:18 AM
Thats right it will cost $219 for NFL ST for all the SD broadcast but an ADDITIONAL $99 for the HD Games for a Grand total of $318!! http://www./voice/images/smilies/thumbdown.gif
See link:
http://finance.yahoo.com/mp#dtv

xzvc7ca
05-13-2005, 10:54 AM
Thats right it will cost $219 for NFL ST for all the SD broadcast but an ADDITIONAL $99 for the HD Games for a Grand total of $318!! http://www./voice/images/smilies/thumbdown.gif
See link:
http://finance.yahoo.com/mp#dtv
I've had DirecTV for 7 years and high definition for a couple of years. I was strongly considering NFL ST this year, but I can't believe the price jump to see games in HD (which are the only ones I'd watch on a regular basis). Especially considering that not all games each week are available in HD, factor in the blackout policy, and this is indeed a slap in the face to those of us who shelled out big bucks for HD receivers and are already paying for the HD package each month. No way am I getting NFL ST this year...I get my local HD channels via antenna and will at least see some HD games there and on ABC/ESPN-HD.

rbinck
05-13-2005, 11:54 AM
That is what happens when competition gets smaller.

Bruno
05-13-2005, 12:49 PM
That doesn't seem right. You would think, at the very least, that those who purchase their HD package would be excluded from this additional charge.

louden
05-13-2005, 02:47 PM
I just picked up the HD package with the express intent on getting Sunday Ticket games in HD.

This is a low blow. It's moves like this that make me willing to switch to cable once my year of HD is up.

leww37334
05-13-2005, 03:38 PM
Somebody had to pay for all those new satellites ;) ;)

chinook9
05-13-2005, 04:31 PM
I called DTV today and they said that the Superfan package ($99) is not necessary to get the Sunday Ticket games in HD. I don't really believe them. For what good it might do me, I sent them an e-mail so I could get it in writing. I had planned to become a DTV subscriber for the sole reason of getting the games in HD.

There is at least one page on their web site that indicates 100 Sunday Ticket games will be in HD and the brochure they distribute at Best Buy also does.

Smthkd
05-13-2005, 06:02 PM
I called DTV today and they said that the Superfan package ($99) is not necessary to get the Sunday Ticket games in HD.
...Not True! You MUST have the Basic NFLST pack and the Superfan Pack for any of the HD games! I have all ready confirmed this with 3 Directv Supervisors!

CatManDoo
05-13-2005, 11:24 PM
That is what happens when competition gets smaller.
Is that a reference to VOOM? :eek:

Actually, that's a rhetorical question. I think I know the answer already....

rbinck
05-14-2005, 01:36 PM
Yes it was. Without Voom no pressure until there are a lot more HD subscribers.

Smthkd
05-14-2005, 01:58 PM
Yes it was. Without Voom no pressure until there are a lot more HD subscribers.
I think this is a prime example of the type of propaganda we will continue to see without a company like Voom around! Even though I never had their service I must agree that it made other companies both cable and sat like Directv pressured to provide better service at low cost! Now since Voom isn't around, its going to be interesting to see how this plays out for Dave! IMO, not their best strategy!

CatManDoo
05-14-2005, 07:04 PM
I think this is a prime example of the type of propaganda we will continue to see without a company like Voom around! Even though I never had their service I must agree that it made other companies both cable and sat like Directv pressured to provide better service at low cost! Now since Voom isn't around, its going to be interesting to see how this plays out for Dave! IMO, not their best strategy!
I agree. :bowdown: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you say Satellite became popular for 2 reasons (not in any particular order):

1. Cable not available in certain areas (rural)
2. People got p(eye)$$ed off at the Cable companies due to arrogance in their pricing and service policies

So doesn't it seem logical that instead of pulling this crap with the NFL Sunday Ticket situation and ticking off some of their loyal customers, they would be better off to welcome more new subscribers into the fold by fighting for the former VOOM contingent? Obviously, VOOM suscribers were not opposed to having a dish on their roof, so that eliminates one reason that a person might opt for cable instead of satellite. Plus, VOOM people went there for the highest quality they could get, so even though cable is generally considered to have equal or better HD than satellite, satellite definitely offers MORE and BETTER digital channels than cable (at least for now). But while Comcast is contemplating a move to ALL digital this year in order to counteract a long standing deficiency compared to D* and E*, you have "Dave" doing exactly the opposite of what they should be doing in light of the VOOM demise.

Do you concur?

Smthkd
05-14-2005, 07:10 PM
I couldn't say it better myself! I totally agree!:)

CatManDoo
05-14-2005, 07:34 PM
I couldn't say it better myself! I totally agree!:)
Did you see my Philly Beagles open the season on MNF Sept 12th in Atlanta? Paybacks are H-E-DoubleHockeySticks! :eek: Looks like McNabb won't have T.O. this year. Oh, well; at least he has a new Campbells Soup commercial..... :D

chrpai
05-14-2005, 07:36 PM
Yes it was. Without Voom no pressure until there are a lot more HD subscribers.

Considering D* had an exclusive contract with the NFL, I don't see how this can be associated with the depature of V*.

chrpai
05-14-2005, 07:38 PM
rder):

2. People got p(eye)$$ed off at the Cable companies due to arrogance in their pricing and service policies


I agree. In the mid 90's I knew of DSS but I didn't figure it would be for me. When I bought my first house in 1999 I read an article on how D* and E* were way ahead of cable companies in terms of customer satisfaction.

I jumped ship then and I've never looked back.

bigjdotcom01
05-16-2005, 08:53 AM
Are you kidding me? DirecTV is just Fukcing their customers! I have had the Sunday ticket since 1999 and have put up with the constant rise in price, but an extra $99 for HD games that were free last year? That is rediculous. Especially when any games shown locally are blacked out. Here in Rochester, NY our CBS affiliate doesn't even broadcast in HD so I will lose even more HD games due to blackout.

I am totally frustrated with D* right now. What can we do as consumers?

Chiefsfan
05-16-2005, 09:57 AM
I just called and cancelled. With Blackouts of my home team (Chiefs!) that was the only reason I kept it going.. Damn them.. :mad:

Thank God for ESPN Sunday nights (this year at least)

mike558
05-16-2005, 10:00 AM
I am assuming that this is a done deal, but I'll voice my opposition to DTV and wait to see what really happens. I have until Aug to complete my 1 yr committment, but if they charge an extra $99 for NFL HD they not only lose my NFLST sub, they lose me completely. The only thing DTV has going for them over most other companies is ST. Swithching to Cable would allow me to get everything I get from DTV, plus more HD content. The savings over cable prices isn't worth being slammed in the rear by paying over $300 for 17 days of additional programming a year. In my case, it's even less. I am a firefighter, and my schedule will put me in the station anywhere from 4 to 6 of those Sundays, but even if that wasn't the case the content isn't justified for that price.

With all channels purchased, there's no real savings for me with DTV over Comcast anyway. DTV total choice premier 93.99, HD pack 10.99 = 104.98 a month. Comcast in my area 100.05 for digital platinum plus 6.95 for ala carte pack = $107

For $2 more a month I can get virtually all the same channels plus all my locals in HD, TNTHD, INHD 1 & 2 which in Boston gets me Red Sox & Celtics in HD, Starz HD, Max HD, plus 8 additional premium channels. The only channels I lose are UHD, HDNet, HDM, and the west feeds on the premiums, which doesn't add any extra programming. I won't count the sports pack as a loss, since most of the programs available on these channels are blacked out without the additional purchase of a season pass(MLB ,NHL, NBA). Plus with on demand features I don't need the option to watch the same show with a 3 hour time difference.

SHOSHOSHO
05-16-2005, 10:07 AM
Considering D* had an exclusive contract with the NFL, I don't see how this can be associated with the depature of V*.

Your missing the point. I beleive the point is now that Voom is gone there is very little chance of a HD customer walking due to high prices and lack of service.

mike558
05-16-2005, 10:36 AM
Your missing the point. I beleive the point is now that Voom is gone there is very little chance of a HD customer walking due to high prices and lack of service.

I am not questioning the theory behind this quote, but as I stated in my previous post, there is very little price difference at this point. Also for the HD consumer, DTV has the least HD content available right now compared to Dish and most of the larger cable co's. I know they've been touting that all too familiar phrase of "by 2007 we'll have 1,500 local HD and more than 150 national HD channels and other advanced programming services to consumers," but I think they're putting the horse before the cart in trying to charge for something that has yet to be delivered.

Chillidogg9
05-16-2005, 12:07 PM
I only pay $50 more to see the 8 Live nfl home games. Looks like I will be catching the local games only from now on. However the new enhancements sound very enticing Talk about getting greedy.

iserum
05-16-2005, 12:13 PM
in 2004-2005 season all football play off games were in HD, Fox and CBS has one NFL game on HD every sunday, Monday night football was HD all the good games are on national tv, i don't see lot of people paying $99 extra for HD. i am very positive not all games will be on HD just like ESPN HD is not fully HD, just a rip off for customers. i think satellite tv is loosing its advantage, being getting so expensive.

Robbiee19
05-16-2005, 01:08 PM
Agree with iserum. Still like D*, but will give up the NFL Package. To much for my blood.

Chiefsfan
05-16-2005, 02:27 PM
There are still a LOT of folks like myself, out in the backwoods (Springfield MO) that will not get CBS or FOX HD OTA until at LEAST 2006.. Still, I sure hope a lot of people cancel their NFL Package over this...

lee espinoza
05-16-2005, 02:38 PM
Yes it was. Without Voom no pressure until there are a lot more HD subscribers.
Voom had only 60,000, Directv today has over 14 MILLION there was no pressure on DirecTv from voom

hoorta
05-17-2005, 01:23 AM
Considering D* had an exclusive contract with the NFL, I don't see how this can be associated with the depature of V*.

That "Exclusive Contract" may have something to do with what I'm going to posit. If I'm not mistaken, DTV loses it's exclusivity after this season to cable operators, and after the 2006 season to anyone. Are they trying to cash in while they can, or seeing where the floor of price resistance is, when they have to compete with cable and Dish Network for the Sunday Ticket audience?

JAG72
05-17-2005, 04:35 AM
Directv extended their agreement with the NFL until the end of the 2010 season. I now wish someone elso would have been able to carry it now with all the new charges.

ipodbill
05-17-2005, 07:37 AM
although i agree with many of the preceding comments, i think that the NFL is the one ultimately driving these prices. IMHO, the NFL is the most lucrative sports franchise $3.5 billion is alot of money
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1918761
http://washtimes.com/op-ed/20050423-104814-4144r.htm

Spicy Mikey
05-17-2005, 10:08 AM
Many of us seem to be assuming DirecTV is trying to get HD customers to pay more because a) Voom just died, b) they have an exclusive contract with the NFL, c) Cable can't compete, or anything else. To me I see it different. It just seems to be a strategic move on their part to try and promote these new enhanced services.

As HD users, we are already viewed as "early adopters" of bleeding edge services. I think the D* marketing department is just making a bet that they can get us to pay another $99 to keep our HD and at the same time try and introdcue us to a new service. They know we probably wouldn't pay extra for the service by itself so they're trying to force us into it. If the service is good, they can feel confident our experiences will spread by word of mouth and they can get this new service off the ground.

Having said all that; I think their marketing strategy is way off base on this one. I think D* is missing one point. Most of us probably subscribe to NFL-ST for one reason. We want to watch our home team play without risk of blackouts, etc. Most of us are not footbal fanatics who want to watch 10 out of town games every weekend or see a dozen different camera angles. I'm 43 years old. I've been watching the Giants my whole life. I moved out of NY to Florida and just want to watch the Giants play. I don't care about the Green Bay / Chicago game (no offense to those guys) and I don't need different camera angles to enjoy the game.

For this reason I think this marketing campaign will fail and it won't be around next season. In fact, I'd bet good money it might even get aborted before the season even starts when they realize very few customers are paying for the extra service and they're still waisting bandwidth providing these HD games for no one.

Just my two cents....

donavanb
05-17-2005, 07:52 PM
I was extremely upset when I read this, so I called DTV to find out. At first the lady I talked to said she wasnt sure so she put me on hold and then came back and said yes that to get the HD NFLST games I must pay the $99 extra. That pissed me off, so I told her I would not renew Sunday Ticket this year after being a customer for many years.

The next day a manager called me and said they had reviewed my call from the day before and wanted to let me know I had been given the wrong information. That HD games would be included in the NFLST standard package. I asked if you was sure and she said yes.

My problem is you never get the same answer out of DTV, so what happens if I buy and then find out when the season starts that I don't, man now that will really PISS me off.

Not sure what to do.

:confused:

kelrhon
05-17-2005, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE=
Having said all that; I think their marketing strategy is way off base on this one. I think D* is missing one point. Most of us probably subscribe to NFL-ST for one reason. We want to watch our home team play without risk of blackouts, etc. Most of us are not footbal fanatics who want to watch 10 out of town games every weekend or see a dozen different camera angles. I'm 43 years old. I've been watching the Giants my whole life. I moved out of NY to Florida and just want to watch the Giants play. I don't care about the Green Bay / Chicago game (no offense to those guys) and I don't need different camera angles to enjoy the game.

For this reason I think this marketing campaign will fail and it won't be around next season. In fact, I'd bet good money it might even get aborted before the season even starts when they realize very few customers are paying for the extra service and they're still waisting bandwidth providing these HD games for no one.

Just my two cents....[/QUOTE]


I agree.....I am a Steelers fan....I flip over to other games during commercials.....but I do watch the HD games when they were on.....but the main reason was to get Steelers games in Kentucky....So, I will renew, but don't think I will take the HD part....big mistake to do this to us..........

CatManDoo
05-17-2005, 08:24 PM
I was extremely upset when I read this, so I called DTV to find out. At first the lady I talked to said she wasnt sure so she put me on hold and then came back and said yes that to get the HD NFLST games I must pay the $99 extra. That pissed me off, so I told her I would not renew Sunday Ticket this year after being a customer for many years.

The next day a manager called me and said they had reviewed my call from the day before and wanted to let me know I had been given the wrong information. That HD games would be included in the NFLST standard package. I asked if you was sure and she said yes.

My problem is you never get the same answer out of DTV, so what happens if I buy and then find out when the season starts that I don't, man now that will really PISS me off.

Not sure what to do.

:confused:

Looks like they either LIED or they're REALLY STUPID. Unless their website is out of date, they are planning on hitting everyone for an extra $99 bucks to be a "SuperFan": :(
NFL-Sunday Ticket (http://www.directvsports.com/Subscriptions/NFLSundayTicket)
NFL-ST SuperFan (http://www.directvsports.com/Subscriptions/NFLSundayTicket/SuperFan/)

Something's gotta give..... :confused:

Spicy Mikey
05-17-2005, 08:51 PM
I don't think the website is out of date. However, the contradictions that DONAVANB got when he called could be an indication already that the whole idea of upcharging for this "superfan" service is being rethought by marketing. Like I said a few messages earlier (and KELRHON agreed) most of us aren't going to pay $99 extra to watch SOME games on HD. Especially when you consider the fact that there's no schedule of which games you'll receive in HD. It's hit or miss. If your like me (and I suspect most NFL-ST fans) you're probably tuning in to watch a particular team each week. No one is going to pay a 35% premium without a guarantee they'll get to see their team in HD. That's the whole flaw in the logic that D* failed to realize.

Although this "superfan" thing is a REAL dumb idea, I don't think D* is so stupid that they won't realize the mistake and correct it before the season starts. I'm betting the HD channels don't get upcharged. And if they do, well, I have no plans to buy it. I'll just watch my Giants in blurry 480 and save the $99 :)

sallurday
05-17-2005, 10:30 PM
I submitted this email to D* tonight via email...

I have been an NFL Sunday Ticket subscriber for a few years. I use Sunday ticket to view my favorite team - the Bills. One game per week - less if they are on a primetime game (1 this year) or OTA (at least 2 this year). I don't have an HD Recorder, so I often view the game on Tivo to save time by skipping the commercials. At the current price of $219, I will pay about $17 per game to watch my beloved Bills this year. I refuse to add another $7.61 per game to possibly watch it in HD.

Your marketing department is making a big mistake by trying to capitalize on HD content. The old analogy of "you can sheer a sheep many times, but you can only skin it once" applies.

I will not be adding this service to my account, but even though I don't pay you an additional $99, I still consider myself a Super Fan.

tonyjbt
05-18-2005, 06:51 AM
I agree, I think DTV will reconsider this. Nevertheless, If you purchased the package last year your cost this year is $199 and if you complain load enough so that a supervisor hears you, they will offer the HD Superfan package at half price.

cinzano
05-18-2005, 09:59 AM
this is what happens when you get rupert murdoch in the house....

donavanb
05-18-2005, 10:56 AM
I have sent an email also explaining what happened to me with the manager calling me back, that way hopefully I will get an answer in writing. I let you know what response I get back. below is my email to them.

Dear DTV

I saw the new Super Fan category for NFL Sunday Ticket and was confused by the fact that HD games were only listed under the Super Fan option for an additional $99. So I called 800-Directv and asked if I would continue to get HD games with the regular package as I did last year. I was told no that I would have to buy the Super Fan, I was not happy and stated that I wasn't sure if I would renew.

Then the next day a manager from DirecTV called me back and said I was told wrong and that I would recieve the HD games as I had the year before with the standard NFL Sunday ticket and I renewed for the early renew $199 price. I would like to know for sure if this is correct, so please let me know.

tjk1985
05-18-2005, 12:44 PM
This is one more disappointing development in what has become a flood of disappointment in DTV's HD offerings, or lack thereof.

I love the NFL Sunday Ticket and the HD, and will likely pay the extra for it; however, I let DTV know that while I'll do so, I plan to recoup this money by cancelling other services, such as not renewing my ESPN Gameplan, Full Court, or MLB Extra Innings, which I could more easily do without.

CatManDoo
05-18-2005, 06:58 PM
I have sent an email also explaining what happened to me with the manager calling me back, that way hopefully I will get an answer in writing. I let you know what response I get back. below is my email to them.

Dear DTV

I saw the new Super Fan category for NFL Sunday Ticket and was confused by the fact that HD games were only listed under the Super Fan option for an additional $99. So I called 800-Directv and asked if I would continue to get HD games with the regular package as I did last year. I was told no that I would have to buy the Super Fan, I was not happy and stated that I wasn't sure if I would renew.

Then the next day a manager from DirecTV called me back and said I was told wrong and that I would recieve the HD games as I had the year before with the standard NFL Sunday ticket and I renewed for the early renew $199 price. I would like to know for sure if this is correct, so please let me know.
I don't have DirecTV, but I feel for you guys. All of us HDTV'ers gotta stick together when either the Sat's or Cab's pull crap like this :mad: . So here's my version of the petition mentioned previously:

When you, or anyone else, sends an e-mail to DirecTV why not include a link to this Forum (actually, right to this thread)? You can even do it straight to a specific post in a thread if you want to. But in this case, just copy the line below into your e-mail and tell them to take a good look at all the comments.

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=7956

To the Forum - Hi-Def Forum (http://www.highdefforum.com) - http://www.highdefforum.com
To a "Thread" - Thread (http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=7956) - www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=7956
To a specific "Post" - Post #19 (http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost.php?p=42482&postcount=19) - www.highdefforum.com/showpost.php?p=42482&postcount=19

I tried it and it works. I'm not definitely sure if this is legal but I don't see why not. We can't let these corporate giants push us around anymore. Enough's enough! Let them see how ticked their loyal fan base is and how many people they're going to lose. :mad: And not just the $99 bucks for Super Fan or $199 for NFL-ST, but possibly $600-$1,000 bucks a year when you tear their dag gum dish off the roof!!! :mad: :mad:

donavanb
05-19-2005, 10:04 AM
Here is the response I got back from DTV. I have cancelled Sunday Ticket.

Dear Donovan,

Thank you for writing. We apologize for any confusion regarding our SuperFan package. You will need to subscribe to this package in order to receive NFL Sunday Ticket games in HD.

Customers with a 2005 NFL Sunday Ticket subscription are eligible for the SuperFan package, which includes 100+ games available in HD, the NFL Sunday Ticket Red Zone Channel, the NFL Sunday Ticket Game Mix channels, and NFL Sunday Ticket Short Cuts.

The price for the package is $99 1-pay or 2-pay at $49.50

Customers who subscribe will get over 100 games available in HD - see the games in high-definition crystal quality.
NFL Sunday Ticket Red Zone Channel - the best plays from games in action, all on one channel.
NFL Sunday Ticket Short Cuts - commercial free, shows every play of an entire NFL game in 30 minutes or less. Starts after the last Sunday game ends each week.

To purchase NFL Sunday Ticket SuperFan, an NFL Sunday Ticket subscription is required. We hope this information has been helpful.

Sincerely,

Karen
DIRECTV Customer Service

Spicy Mikey
05-19-2005, 11:34 AM
I'm going to keep my subscription for the $199 (I can't miss my Giants games) but I will definitely take a pass on the "SuperFan" package. It's way overpriced and unnecessary. HD is great but not critical for me to enjoy a football game. Hell, I've listened to my share of games on the RADIO and enjoyed it just fine. I think I can watch it in SD on my 65" Mits without suffering to much :)

D* is a smart company and have made smart moves in the past but I think they're way off the mark on this one. This campaign will loose them money and they will abandon it sooner rather then later.

pokerguru
05-19-2005, 11:34 AM
Here is the response I got back from DTV. I have cancelled Sunday Ticket.

Dear Donovan,

Thank you for writing. We apologize for any confusion regarding our SuperFan package. You will need to subscribe to this package in order to receive NFL Sunday Ticket games in HD.

Customers with a 2005 NFL Sunday Ticket subscription are eligible for the SuperFan package, which includes 100+ games available in HD, the NFL Sunday Ticket Red Zone Channel, the NFL Sunday Ticket Game Mix channels, and NFL Sunday Ticket Short Cuts.

The price for the package is $99 1-pay or 2-pay at $49.50

Customers who subscribe will get over 100 games available in HD - see the games in high-definition crystal quality.
NFL Sunday Ticket Red Zone Channel - the best plays from games in action, all on one channel.
NFL Sunday Ticket Short Cuts - commercial free, shows every play of an entire NFL game in 30 minutes or less. Starts after the last Sunday game ends each week.

To purchase NFL Sunday Ticket SuperFan, an NFL Sunday Ticket subscription is required. We hope this information has been helpful.

Sincerely,

Karen
DIRECTV Customer Service




D* failed to even address that you cancelled your sub to ST. They lose out on 200 bucks for the sub, instead of trying to work something out. Why they chose to lose customers is beyond me.


Gotta love how they dance around the issues..... :banghead:

donavanb
05-19-2005, 11:46 AM
Not only did they not address the fact that I was canceling ST, but I also said that I would be canceling other programs.

My current setup

Total Choice Plus
HD package
HBO
Sports Pack
Sunday Ticket - Just canceled

Today I will call and cancel Sports Pack
After the finally of Deadwood on Sunday I will call and cancel HBO
Then a couple of days later I will call and cancel the HD package

That way I can explain 3 more times why I am canceling and I will also explain that unless things improve by the time my contract runs out in Feb of next year (due to buying a Tivo unit) that I will then cancel everything and move to Dish or Cable TV, the only reason I have stuck with DTV for so long was for Sunday Ticket, but now that they have overpriced themselves out of my market then I have no real incentive to stay.

They main reason I am so upset is that I have been a long time customer, (approx. 10 years) and when I signed up for HD package I was told that I would get all the HD they had to offer except the premium channels unless I subscribed to those premium channels. So I subscribe to HBO and I get HBO HD, so I feel that if I subscribe to Sunday Ticket I should get Sunday Ticket HD, but now they say no that aint good enough, fork over more. I have had enough forking over.

sorry so long, just needed to rant and sense DTV didn't seem to care I ranted here.

CatManDoo
05-19-2005, 08:14 PM
Today I will call and cancel Sports Pack
After the finally of Deadwood on Sunday I will call and cancel HBO
Then a couple of days later I will call and cancel the HD package

That way I can explain 3 more times why I am canceling and I will also explain that unless things improve by the time my contract runs out in Feb of next year (due to buying a Tivo unit) that I will then cancel everything and move to Dish or Cable TV, the only reason I have stuck with DTV for so long was for Sunday Ticket, but now that they have overpriced themselves out of my market then I have no real incentive to stay.

Sorry so long, just needed to rant and sense DTV didn't seem to care I ranted here.
I'll take bets that they reverse this policy before the season starts. And probably turn it into a public relations bonanza (We here at DirecTV listen and we care, so we've decided to ....)When someone smart enough crunches the numbers, they'll realize that the income gained from a few people at $99 bucks a pop pales in comparison to the number of previously loyal customers like you that they will lose at $1,000+ per year. But the sooner they do this, the better off they'll be. Some bonehead will probably get fired. :banghead:

btw, If & when they lose you completely, it's not likely you'll return. If you go with Dish, you'll have a contract. And if you go with Cable, they will most likely have everything available totally digital by Feb 2006 so that eliminates one of the major selling points for Satellite over Cable. And Cable is already thought to be at least equal or better than the remaining Sats when it comes to Hi-Def quality & availability. Good Luck! :)

tonyjbt
05-20-2005, 06:24 AM
So if they were smart they would have people read forums like these and not only would they have complaints on the phone they would also hear peoples fustration on sites like this. I, a loyal customer for 2 1/2 years will be leaving DTV and probably go to Comcast and never return. Yes, if anyone from DTV is even viewing this site. All because of this Sunday football ticket rip off.

Spicy Mikey
05-20-2005, 07:39 AM
The more I think about this the more angry I get. The reason I'm so angry (and I suspect most of us feel the same) is because this is not just a price increase, it's a blatant act of deception. We feel like we've been "had".

I've been a Total Choice and NFL-ST customer for 5 years. When I signed up for their HD package last year and purchased an H10 from D* for $999, I was given the clear impression that I would have access to all their HD content. Any reasonable person would have assumed that included any HD sports events (with the exception of PPV). In fact, the literature I had at the time said "get more then 100 games in high-definition with NFL Sunday Ticket".

Now they've changed the rules. Normally, that would be perfectly legal. However (and here's the catch), we have a contract with D* for HD! We've invested SIGNIFICANT money in equipment for HD! We're committed! I'm not so sure D* can simply switch the rules substantially like this and remove services we had at the time of signing this contract. It's definitely unethical but it also feels a bit boarderline illegal.

I know D* has a substantial legal department but they may have pushed this one too the edge. They may be guilty of deceptive business practices on this issue. At very least, I think they should be investigated.

I'm going to file a complaint with the California Attorney General's office citing deceptive business practices and breach of implied contract (CA is where they based -- you need to file in their home state). I suggest anyone else with some extra time should do the same. Every state justice department has a boat load of lawyers and investigators who do nothing more then investigate these type of complaints. Every complaint is investigated but if enough complaints are sent then the issue will get their attention even faster.

D* is a large interstate corporation based in CA. Revenue for NFL-ST is huge. Let's not underestimate the significance of this complaint for the AG office. In fact, D* is also considered a communications company, so, the FCC may even want to get involved in this. However, I suggest we start with the AG office and let them forward it to the proper federal agencies (if necessary).

Go to http://caag.state.ca.us/contact/index.htm and follow the link for filing a complaint.

RX8
05-20-2005, 07:56 AM
Thats a very good point. Alot of people have purchased Directtv HD receivers through Directtv spending alot of money for them and now Directtv is telling them they can't use it to watch all of their HD channels unless they give them more money? Directtv no more for me. Too many other options out there. Besides the NFL is getting worse every year. Money hunger is ruining everything...

Spicy Mikey
05-20-2005, 08:03 AM
I filed my complaint on the CA AG website. it only took about 10 minutes. I others do the same. Here's the body of my complaint;

"Last year I signed up for DirecTV's High Def satelite service. At the time, I entered a 12 month contract for every channel they offered and paid extra for their "High Def" package" as well as the "NFL Sunday Ticket" package. I also purchased an HD satellite receiver for $999 DirecTV that only works with their service.

As you would suspect, this contract included NFL football games in High Def format as well as all movies and tv shows broadcast in HD. I was pleased. However, within two months of entering the contract, DirecTV has now told me I will only receive the Football games in HD if I pay an additional $99 for the year. This service change is stated on their website and was confirmed to me directly via email from their customer service dept.

My complaint; I believe this switch was intentional deception on DirecTV's part. A clear "bait and switch" to lure me into the sports package and then raise the price after I've purchased the equipment. Although no guarantees were ever provided, I believe there was an implied contract between us that should ensure I continue to receive the same level of service for the length of that contract.

I ask that the AG office consider investigating DirecTV and possibly forward this to the FCC for their consideration.

I await your response."

gojacketz
05-20-2005, 08:09 AM
I like it Mikey. I am going to call them today and if they do not offer me the HD NFLST at the original price, I am going to follow suit. I will give them a chance to make amends first. I just got the HD two weeks ago and almost blew a gasket when I saw this extra fee for Sunday Ticket.

Last year I ordered the NFLST early to save, we had a house fire, got moved into an apartment while the house was being redone. The apartment had no possibility of a dish, so we were out for the Sunday Ticket. We had to fight tooth and nail to get them to give us a credit. "You have already ordered, nothing we can do" was what we got. It took some fighting to get them to see the light.

Gojacketz

Smthkd
05-20-2005, 08:29 AM
So , I geuss none of you guys read ther terms of your contract with D* before getting their service, that pretty much states that they can change the price and carriers at anytime they want too! I hate to say it but, you have no legal grounds here. D* is only doing what they have a right to do, besides, this is a new year for the ST and they have given you a legal notice on their website of the upcoming seasons changes! So any agreement you made last year is now mute and cannot be applied to current standards! Sorry!

RX8
05-20-2005, 09:26 AM
Just canceled my DirectTV and informed the guy very politely that I am reading alot of disgruntled customer comments. The conversation was polite on both ends and he seemed to understand, pointed out the extra features of the SF package but i still feel its a rip.
The one thing he did try to do was offer me the receiver for 150 less and told me the Directtv receiver was like a cadillac compared to dish receiver being a lowend vehicle. All the reviews i have read have them equal at least. Don't know. I am switching. if I miss it bad enough i will go back next year but dish and tons of free equipment with 6 months of free service is hard not to give a chance.

Spicy Mikey
05-20-2005, 09:44 AM
Hi SmthKD. With all due respect, you can't quite say that with certainty. Law is not black and white. It's gray and has ragged edges. As consumers, the law protects us from deceptive practices regardless of what the contract says. In other words; they can't 'trick" us into something regardless of whether we signed a contract or they stated it in advance. You just can't do that. Although I agree it's a gray, I sincerely believe they've crossed the line a bit.

There's also a concept in law called "the reasonable person". The "reasonable person" concept basically allows a judge to ask "Is it reasonable for a D* customer to have assumed that when they signed up for the service and purchased the equipment that the service would not significantly change for the length of their contract. Keep in mind, we're not arguing about the NFLST season, we're arguing about those people who just signed up for HD and signed a contract for 12 months under the rules at that time. I was one of them.

You're argument is valid on certain types of contracts. However, the law looks very unfavorably on consumer fraud. In other words, companies can't pull a mass "fast one" on consumers. This very well may fall into that category and I'm pursuing it.
In the end, they may be able to prevail, but it's not a certainty. At very least they should be forced to legally defend their actions with the California AG office.

tonyjbt
05-20-2005, 11:05 AM
smthkd,
If I were you I'd quit my job at DTV and work for a company that dosn't take advance of their customers. Instead DTV should be offering better value to customers like me who spend around $100/mo just to watch TV.

Smthkd
05-20-2005, 01:43 PM
smthkd,
If I were you I'd quit my job at DTV and work for a company that dosn't take advance of their customers. Instead DTV should be offering better value to customers like me who spend around $100/mo just to watch TV.Strong words from a noob! However, you are misinformed! I do not work for D* and If you noticed I started this thread and was one of the first that called and cancelled my ST because of the price hike, however, many of you think that you have reasonable grounds for a class action lawsuit against D* but you dont! D* never said HD would be included free of charge nor did they tell you that you had to pay that new adjusted price! I agree that this is not a intelligent move for D*'s marketing but I do also believe that if you want to make a statement against them, hit'em were it hurts and don't sub to the ST this year! Don't accept there bribe of a $50 deduction or the $100 discount because even though that may benefit you, it also benefits them, but it hurts all of us who decided to make a stand against them by cancelling!

GRN
05-20-2005, 01:53 PM
....many of you think that you have reasonable grounds for a class action lawsuit against D*...

Ain't you heard? Give someone access to a computer and a mouse and they think they have a law degree from Message Board University! :D

Bruno
05-20-2005, 02:10 PM
These guys aren't stupid. Cable companies, dish companies they all protect themselves with legal language in their contracts that allows them to change programming, pricing, packaging....etc. at their discretion....whenever they feel like it. Now, if you signed up for a package and they decided to change the rules mid-stream maybe you'd have a leg to stand on but that's not what they're doing here. Ultimately it's a matter of supply and demand. If the add'l charge is unreasonable then the market will let them know.

I recently canceled their HD package because I didn't think it was a good value but I honestly thought I'd have to renew it in the fall if I wanted to get the Sunday Ticket games in HD. So now instead of adding the HD package back on I'll pay for the HD games. After last year I can't stand to watch STD football games on the big screen.

Chiefsfan
05-20-2005, 02:40 PM
Resist Bruno!!! Of course, if you don't buy the $10.99 per month pkg, you can't see ESPN Sunday evening game, either...

Spicy Mikey
05-20-2005, 02:47 PM
Hey guys, don't OVERestimate the intelligence of a large corporation. They're not as smart as you think (I should know, I used to work for the biggest (AT&T) in the 80's and 90's -- we all know what happened to them). To me it's clearly a marketing mistake, but it may also possibly be a legal mistake for a certain group of us. For those of us who signed up for the HD service AND bought equipment from D* AND already had the NFL-ST package, their may be an argument here. My main reason for getting HD last month was in prep for the NFL season. I want my money back if I don't get the NFL package I had last year.

Everyone makes a good point (with the exception of tonyjbt -- his comments contributed nothing to the discussion). However, I disagree with the argument that we can influence D*'s decision by canceling our service. We're just a few guys who love footbal and -- evidently -- have too much free time on ourr hands. The other 13,999,900 million customers have never heard of this forum. It's silly to think we can organize any effective action from here.

I still think the only hope we have of getting their attention is to file a complaint with the CA AG office -- not a Class Actiion suite -- a consumer fraud complaint. I assure you that the AG office will take it seriously and explore the merits of the complaint and contact D* for the details. They may ultimately side with D* but at least it will get investigated. In the meantime, like most, I won't be subscribing to the Superfan package.

beatboy77
05-20-2005, 10:17 PM
If I may chime in here, Mikey is correct. Law is not black and white, it is of course a very grey area, that's why we have Judges. I feel in this situation both sides have valid points. As smthkd points out, the Directv contract states essentially they can change pricing at any time for any reason and as Mikey points out many times companies can still be sued for misleading customers even if nothing in the contract was violated. There have been many situations throughout business history where a company did not violate the written word, but still misled people and hence were sued. An example would be the Tobaco companies. It clearly states on their products and has for many years that their product can cause cancer and yet they are losing millions every year to lawsuits from people getting cancer. I say go to the website Mikey recommended and file a complait, I mean you have nothing to lose by doing so. I personally feel Directv made a HUGE mistake by charging this additional $99.00. They currently trail Dish Network substantially in their HD offerings and also are charging a 50% price increase on what was free last year for the same product. Certainly a poor business decision. I can understand maybe raising the rates on business accounts, but not on personal accounts, just doesn't make sense, no matter how they try to justify it.

~Josh

GRN
05-21-2005, 02:16 AM
If all you Johnnie Cochrans can hold on for one minute, I do have a question, directed at Mikey: If I'm reading this correctly, you're upset because you recently signed up for HD service under the old package, whereby there was no additional charge for the HD games. Additionally, you signed on to the HD package for the express purpose of watching NFL games in HD. Correct?

I can totally understand where you're coming from. If that's why you signed up for HD, then the next day, next week, etc. you find out that all of a sudden the HD games are going to cost you an extra C-note, I'd be pretty ticked off myself. If that's what everyone is ticked off about, then I can empathize with every single one of you, and D* better pray that there's no internal memo floating around talking about the new price hike while they continued signing people up for HD under the old plan, knowing that this price change was soon to go into effect.

And if you guys do go for a class-action lawsuit: Good luck. Hope you can afford someone to take on the army of high-priced lawyers D* will throw at you.

CPanther95
05-21-2005, 07:23 AM
I'm not sure there's much of a legal issue here. DirecTV makes it very clear in the contract that programming, packages and pricing may change. Presumably that is known when you decide to make any equipment investment. You could probably fairly easily get D* to waive any cancellation fee, but if you were a NFLST sub last year, the remaining pro-rated amount is minimal anyway.

Why was the nohdtax.com thread removed? It makes more sense to voice opposition to this fee, than to simply encourage subs to cancel D* altogether or just not renew NFL ST. Neither of those options will affect any change, it will just be chalked up to normal churn.

Spicy Mikey
05-21-2005, 09:04 AM
Hi GRN. You hit it on the head, that's pretty much my argument. D*raised the price 35+% on an existing service withouth warning. Given the fact that we (D* customers) must buy our own equipment, it's definitely not FAIR but it also may be outside their legal rights since they are heavily regulated and controlled by the FCC.

It's obvious to me that D* is trying to conceal this price increase from the FCC by marketing it as a "new service" offering. They bundled it with some rediculous new channels and services and called it a "SuperFan" package. That was a cleaver move by D* but we all know it's really a way to get a price increase since they shifted some desirable existing services from the ST package into that "new service offering". The bottom line is this; In order for us to get the NFL-ST package we had last year we will need to pay 35% more. Doesn't seem legal to me.

It's true I'm not Johnny Cochran (good news for me since he's dead now), however, you don't need to be a lawyer to know when you've been suckered. Every business has a right and obligation to make a profit, however, communication companies must operate by strict guidelines set by FCC laws. These companies benefit from many protectionary FCC laws to ensure the public can receive their broadcasts without restrictions, however, these laws cut both ways. The FCC is not going to tolerate deceptive or excessive price increases without justification.

On your other comment; Why do you think I'm proposing a class action lawsuit? I never suggested that? All I said was that DirecTV may be guilty of consumer fraud and possibly a price increase violation. My goal is to get the government agencies that are responsible for this sort of thing to investigate it and make a decision for us. Once again, that's NOT a class action lawsuit. A class action lawsuit is a civil suit (Spicey Mikey versus DirecTV). I'm talking about a government investigation and possibly a criminal suit (FCC versus DirectTV).

GRN
05-21-2005, 09:42 AM
Mikey: I hope it works out for you, because if you get stuck with equipment you don't really want for a year then that's messed up.

On the other hand, "D*raised the price 35+% on an existing service without warning" isn't much of a compelling argument for the FCC, AG, or anyone to investigate them. Cable companies do it all the time (although not to the tune of 35%, but you get the idea).

I'm no lawyer either, but what I see are two separate issues: D* raised their rate for the Sunday Ticket HD package. And my question is: What's illegal about that? You say that D* is trying to conceal the price increase from the FCC, but the truth of the matter is what do they have to conceal? So they raised the rate of one of their services. Big deal; D* reserves the right to raise rates at a moment's notice. That's part of business. Mind you, it's a crappy part of business for us, because consumers are the ones that get squeezed, but you'd be extremely hard pressed to prove any illegality on their part. If the AG or the FCC investigated carriers every time they raised rates, they wouldn't have time to do anything else.

Your issue, though, is a little different. If D* enticed you to add the HD package with the promise that you would be getting the Sunday Ticket HD package at no additional cost, then you might have something. How can you prove that, though? And before anyone says "D* records their calls", keep in mind that for your scenario to work, and to possibly have any legal standing, D* will have to have called you, enticed you to sign up for the NFL HD pack with the explicit promise that it would be free, all while knowing that they were going to raise rates immediately afterwards.

Like I said previouly, I'm no lawyer, but common sense would dictate that a big company like D* is not going to do something like this without making sure they were bulletproof.

Spicy Mikey
05-21-2005, 11:43 AM
You very well could be right. I can't really argue your points based on what I know right now. For example, regulations may only apply to "basic service". They may only be regulated for NBC, CBS, etc. We may not be protected under the law to watch Football! :) Who knows.

However, I still think you're making assumptions that are holding you back from seeing the other options we might have at our disposal. D* can make mistakes just as easily as the local Pizzeria on the corner. Regardless of their size, they're still a company run by a bunch of average intelligence people who can easily be blinded by greed and make mistakes. As consumers we have options available to us to keep these types of things in check. Let's think BIGGER then petitions and take advantage of these options. We won't know unless we try.

In addition to the AG complaint I filed on Friday, I just filed a complaint with the FCC at http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html. When I get a response (could take a month), I'll post it on this thread.

Thanks for the intelligent debate. Go Giants!

Spicy Mikey
05-22-2005, 10:32 AM
By the way, here's my official complaint filed with the FCC. Even if this sort of thing is perfectly legal, we should try and affect change for the future. I want to get the FCC thinking about how a company currently has an exclusive for a broadcast feed and consumers have no options.

==============
To whom it may concern at the FCC,



I want to bring a matter to the attention of the FCC which concerns me greatly. This problem is in regards to a recent price increase by DirecTV for their exclusive NFL broadcast service called “NFL Sunday Ticket”. As you already know, DirecTV has an exclusive contract with the NFL to provide out-of-market NFL football games across the country. As a result, I subscribed to this “NFL Sunday Ticket” service a few years ago along with their “Total Choice” program offering. Last year the NFL-ST service provided the subscriber with all the Sunday games in either Standard Definition (SD) or High Definition (HD) depending on what was available from the originating broadcaster (FOX, CBS, etc.). The total cost was under $200 for the season.



The NFL-ST subscription automatically renews each year, and in preparation for this season, I purchased a new highdef package from DirecTV. It included a $1000 charge for one of their new HD receivers, and a “High Def” program package. The HighDef program package is an additional $5/month and gives you access to any broadcasts they offer in HD. It was an expensive upgrade but I decided to do it because I was looking forward to seeing football games in HighDef this fall. Although I was never promised the NFL games in High Def I believe any reasonable person would have assumed the HD equipment and package I purchased from DirecTV would suffice based on the language in the literature provided and the package offerings of the past 5 years.



Last week DirecTV announced that they were creating a new premium fee for the NFL Sunday Ticket offering. With this new premium service called “SuperFan” customers had to pay $219 to watch the NFL games in standard definition and an addition $99 if they wanted to watch it in High Def. This effectively means the price was raised 40+% in one year. This SuperFan package offers some additional (but somewhat useless) services such as a rap-up and game summary program, however, the primary feature of this SuperFan package is the HD games.



Does DirecTV have the right to do this to us? I understand this is not standard broadcast channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) but it seems unfair for two reasons;

1) DirecTV has a monopoly on these broadcasts. This means we have no choice but to use them.

2) DirecTV does not provide the equipment with their service. This means we need to purchase the proprietary equipment from them (or their affiliates) at our expense.



As a result, I (and all DirecTV customers) have to invest significant amounts of money for proprietary DirecTV equipment to watch a broadcast that is exclusively provided by DirecTV and then find out they are raising the price 40%. I’ve personally committed myself financially and have very little leverage to take alternative action. To me, it seems sadly clear that DirecTV is taking advantage of this relationship and springing a substantial price increase on it’s customers at the last minute before the season begins.



I ask that the FCC investigation this matter. If it turns out DirecTV is within their rights to perform such price increases on existing exclusive broadcast services then I ask the FCC to rethink this policy and consider stronger regulations to protect the consumer in the future. Either deny DirecTV exclusive rights to these broadcasts or regulate the prices to protect consumers against price gouging.



Thank you for your attention to this matter. I await your reply.

Bleedblackngol
05-24-2005, 09:21 AM
Thanks for taking the time to do this :yippee:

Spicy Mikey
05-24-2005, 02:10 PM
Update; The FCC responded to my complaint today and told me they see this more as a billing/contract issue then an FCC programming issue. They don't want to get involved.

However, they did understand the issue and suggested I file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission for misleading business practices. I took their suggestion. You never know, it can't hurt to attack this issue from as many angles as possible.

spiderman865
05-25-2005, 08:32 PM
:confused: Hey Mikey---you the same Mikey from AT's old site?

GRN
05-25-2005, 10:39 PM
Either deny DirecTV exclusive rights to these broadcasts or regulate the prices to protect consumers against price gouging.

I really don't think the FCC, or the FTC for that matter, is going to step in and "deny DirecTV exclusive rights to these broadcasts", since:

(1) DirecTV paid the highest price on an open market for the exclusive broadcast rights.

(2) Doing so would mean that the FCC/FTC would have to step in an overturn an open and legal bidding process, which they have no business doing. Wishful thinking, though! :D :D :D

Hope it works out!

Spicy Mikey
05-26-2005, 06:22 AM
Hey Spiderman, no I don't think so since I'm not sure who AT is.

Hey GRN, I tend to agree with you but it doesn't hurt to try. We should try all angles. Filing complaints don't take much time and sometimes get "wheels turning" in these agencies. Probably won't effect the outcome of this matter but it may have an effect somewhere down the line on policies. I agree a company has a right to make a profit but since this has to do with broadcasting there may be some stricter guidelines. I admit I don't know the answer one way or the other.

By the way, I also gave an interview this week with a national industry trade magazine who are doing a piece on this very subject. I was asked not to reveal the mag until the article hits next week. However, the subject is exactly what we're talking about and could also help expose DirecTV's problems (and mistakes) with handling this whole HD transition phase.

Throw enough @#$ against the wall and somethings gotta stick.....

oblioman
05-26-2005, 06:33 AM
D* had the highest bid. Those millions go to the NFL. The NFL players are grossly overpaid. Beer companies advertise when these grossly overpaid boys chase each other. Beer companies pay to advertise. In a court of law - Buttwiper and Miller are clearly liable for this mess.


just kidding guys - keep the pressure on DirectTv - maybe next year they'll lose the contract. Makes me wonder why/how they have stayed in business for so long when they rely so heavily on the small print. Pick up this Sunday's paper and count the add's from both D*'s and see if you don't need a magnifying glass to figure out that big "FREE" headline is not really free at all. I say bring back Art "Fatso" Donovan and the real Baltimore Colts.

GRN
05-26-2005, 08:40 AM
By the way, I also gave an interview this week with a national industry trade magazine who are doing a piece on this very subject. I was asked not to reveal the mag until the article hits next week. However, the subject is exactly what we're talking about and could also help expose DirecTV's problems (and mistakes) with handling this whole HD transition phase.
Let us know which magazine it is when it hits the newsstands!

Traak
05-26-2005, 08:55 PM
I guess I will play the Devil's advocate. I'm seeing alot of complaing about HD programming and this thread concerning extra money for the NFL Sunday Ticket in HD. Isn't HD still somewhat new? I mean, there is a very few perctage of people with this technology (HD). If I was in business and had a new technology that alot of techy people wanted, I would charge for it until the market was saturated enough to offer HD for free or very little. Look at the dishes themselves. Back in 1993 when I got my first dish, I paid nearly $400 for a dual LMB dish and reciever..only one because the expense of the second reciever was huge. Now, the market is saturated, you can get better technolgy and 4 recievers for free..FREE. So, you should expect us to pay for HD football until more buy it.. It isnt free for the FOXs and CBSs and ESPNs ( they feed DTV) to use the expensive equipment to bring HD to you, why should they spend all that money to give it to you? Heck, I'm just glad to watch the other teams I like and not have buy a second or third home and fly out there to watch them. Its a SERVICE..SERVICE costs money. Does Microsoft give people FREE upgrades to their operating systems? It cost me roughly $100 from Windows 95 to Windows 98, another $100 to Windows XP and so forth. Heck no, Microsoft charges for everything..as they should.

Am I happy to have to pay extra for HD for football? no. But, I'm also being rational in my thinking that nothing in this world is free. I got over that a long time ago :)

Just another way to look at this.

steve51wv
05-26-2005, 09:12 PM
AMEN...totally agree..

Traak
05-26-2005, 09:12 PM
Spicey,

I wanted to comment on your letter to the FCC.

Does DirecTV have the right to do this to us? I understand this is not standard broadcast channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) but it seems unfair for two reasons;

1) DirecTV has a monopoly on these broadcasts. This means we have no choice but to use them.

2) DirecTV does not provide the equipment with their service. This means we need to purchase the proprietary equipment from them (or their affiliates) at our expense.

1. Directv does not have a monopoly. They won a bidded contract to re-broadcast feeds. Just like FOX won a bidded contract to provide NFL games. One thing I would agree is that the NFL should let both DTV and Dish provide the service but then they would not get as much money, exclusive rights thing I's sure.

2. Yeah..you have to buy the equipment..yea you have to pay the extra fees..but you are getting product that is not of the normal (HD football) and you are watching all the games instead of your local games..I mean..geez, they are putting together something awesome so you dont have to watch highlights on ESPN or worse, have a friend or relative record it for you from where ever and send the copy to you in the mail to watch. Its like saying..I want to play DOOM on my PC but what? I have to upgrade my computer to play it? thats not fair!! They should give me free computer hardware to play it!! Truth is, if you want better stuff..suck it up and pay for it.

James636
05-26-2005, 09:52 PM
These guys aren't stupid. Cable companies, dish companies they all protect themselves with legal language in their contracts that allows them to change programming, pricing, packaging....etc. at their discretion....whenever they feel like it. Now, if you signed up for a package and they decided to change the rules mid-stream maybe you'd have a leg to stand on but that's not what they're doing here. Ultimately it's a matter of supply and demand. If the add'l charge is unreasonable then the market will let them know.

I recently canceled their HD package because I didn't think it was a good value but I honestly thought I'd have to renew it in the fall if I wanted to get the Sunday Ticket games in HD. So now instead of adding the HD package back on I'll pay for the HD games. After last year I can't stand to watch STD football games on the big screen.

For what it's worth, I work in a corporate legal department. A contract is a surprisingly insignificant piece of evidence in a civil lawsuit.

Much of the time, it doesn't matter what the contract states. Fraud and breach of contract are not necessarily the same thing. A company can get pummeled in court even for acts that would seem to be within its contractual rights.

James636
05-26-2005, 09:55 PM
Spicey,

I wanted to comment on your letter to the FCC.

Does DirecTV have the right to do this to us? I understand this is not standard broadcast channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) but it seems unfair for two reasons;

1) DirecTV has a monopoly on these broadcasts. This means we have no choice but to use them.

2) DirecTV does not provide the equipment with their service. This means we need to purchase the proprietary equipment from them (or their affiliates) at our expense.

1. Directv does not have a monopoly. They won a bidded contract to re-broadcast feeds. Just like FOX won a bidded contract to provide NFL games. One thing I would agree is that the NFL should let both DTV and Dish provide the service but then they would not get as much money, exclusive rights thing I's sure.

2. Yeah..you have to buy the equipment..yea you have to pay the extra fees..but you are getting product that is not of the normal (HD football) and you are watching all the games instead of your local games..I mean..geez, they are putting together something awesome so you dont have to watch highlights on ESPN or worse, have a friend or relative record it for you from where ever and send the copy to you in the mail to watch. Its like saying..I want to play DOOM on my PC but what? I have to upgrade my computer to play it? thats not fair!! They should give me free computer hardware to play it!! Truth is, if you want better stuff..suck it up and pay for it.

Thanks, Moneybags. Let us eat cake.

GRN
05-26-2005, 10:42 PM
just kidding guys - keep the pressure on DirectTv - maybe next year they'll lose the contract.
Doubt it; didn't D* just renew the NFL contract for another 6 years or so.....? :confused:
Yeah..you have to buy the equipment..yea you have to pay the extra fees..but you are getting product that is not of the normal (HD football) and you are watching all the games instead of your local games..I mean..geez, they are putting together something awesome so you dont have to watch highlights on ESPN or worse, have a friend or relative record it for you from where ever and send the copy to you in the mail to watch. Its like saying..I want to play DOOM on my PC but what? I have to upgrade my computer to play it? thats not fair!! They should give me free computer hardware to play it!! Truth is, if you want better stuff..suck it up and pay for it.That's kinda harsh, but a very valid point(s). Hell, my old man isn't going to spring for it (I watch the games at his house), so I guess I have to go along with what he says! :D :D :D

Spicy Mikey
05-27-2005, 07:25 AM
It's funny. Everytime I read a posting I end up saying to myself "they're right". This is evidently one of those arguments that depends entirely on perspective -- and every perspective is valid.

Does D* have a right to try and get the most $ for their services to maximize their profits. Of course, otherwise there will be some angry investers breathing down their neck. However, as D* customers, we're also "investors". We've invested time and money configuring and setting up a relationship with D*. I've personally purchased 6 DVR's and one HD DVR. I've also wired my home to handle the unique needs of Sat transmissions. That's what makes this a different type of customer/supplier relationship. As an "invested customer" I have certain expectations too. Among other things, I expect not to see the cost for a particular service rise 40% in one year!

If your not an invested customer then this probably doesn't bother you as much. You'll say, "Who cares, I'll switch back to cable next month if they make me a better offer". For those of us who see this more as a "marriage" then a "date", the "SuperFan" increase is a slap in the face to us "super customers".

I think this may be the big miscalculation by D*. It was this "trust" I had in D* that allowed me to make an investment in equipment and wiring. Now, that trust is broken. I will think real hard before I purchase anymore dedicated equipment to use their service. I also wouldn't recommend DirecTV anymore to friends and family. My suggestion will be to go with cable and just "date" since the equipment investment is to risky.

These feelings have to be bad news for D*. My guess is that we're the source of their real profits - long term customers who subcribe to a multitude of their services. They're not making money from the guy buying the $29.99 basic service package with free installation who switches back to cable in 12 months. They make their money on ME and people like me.

I think they made a huge mistake breaking that trust. But then again, it's all a matter of perspective. Everyone else who's written on this thread is right also.

Traak
05-27-2005, 09:33 AM
I've personally purchased 6 DVR's and one HD DVR. I've also wired my home to handle the unique needs of Sat transmissions. That's what makes this a different type of customer/supplier relationship. As an "invested customer" I have certain expectations too. Among other things, I expect not to see the cost for a particular service rise 40% in one year!

Spicy,

6 DVRs? and a HD DVR to boot? In one household? I can surely say that you are one of the very rare customers they have with that setup. :) The company I manage wires new construction for "smart homes" and wiring a home to handle that is pretty common stuff now in new construction but to put it to use for 7 DVRs is rare. To say you are an invested customer is true in your case..I'd say your way under 1% of DTV customers. The only fact that I like to debate is that 40%..lets break that down. The 40% is the $99 for the extra HD service for Sunday Ticket football. The $99 broken down for a full season of HD..HD..HD..HD footabll is roughly $7 a week. I know you would spend easy..cause I did..for STANDARD TV..and sucky at that..for a few..FEW..games at my BW3s bar and grill..shoot my bill is normally $15-20 after a few beers.

To me the 40% is meaningless in this situation. You have the best of the best..if you didnt, you would have gotten it for free. You will have 10+ HD football games every week for 17 weeks or so..Take the $99 and divide that by 17 and your looking at $6 a week..take that $6 a week (remember, its the cost of a lunch during the week) and divide it by 10+ games..now your at 60 cents..CENTS a game in HD!! :thumbsup: How in the world can you beat that??

I don't want to sound like I'm defending DTV with the decisions they make but I can say that I've had the service since 1993 and moved 4 times and "tried" cable at a couple locations cause of the extra $10 savings or whatnot, but I always went back to DTV..the great product, the great service, and easy bill pay..In a few more months, our HD will be far superior than anything out there and I applaud them for spending Millions to make my service and programming better. :yippee:

Stick with them..its going to be good :)

mxair23
05-27-2005, 01:17 PM
I have talked with many Direct tv reps and managers and all of them said the superfan is strickly high def with all the other enhancers.
ie: 8 games on one screen etc etc.
The normal pricing is going to be the same as it was last year with the same amount of Hidef and standard def games.

BeerMan
05-27-2005, 04:20 PM
Hello everyone. I stumbled across this forum as I was searching for info about DirecTV's supposed new satellite and additional HD programming this year (they sure are taking their time!).

Anyhow, there have been some good points made in this thread already, but here is my take on the 'Superfan' issue:

I subscribed to DirecTV 4 years ago solely for Sunday Ticket. I am a huge Steelers fan, and I wanted the opportunity to watch every game. Last year, I upgraded to HD, so I was thrilled to be able to watch many of the games in HD.

Personally, I think they bundled the HD content with the Superfan stuff because they realized how weak their Superfan content was. I am a fantasy football player, but the Red Zone channel isn't worth paying extra for. I was hoping for a lot more content from Superfan (customizable replays and camera angles perhaps). Without the HD content, I'll bet virtually no one would sign up for the Superfan content.

With that said, I actually wouldn't have a problem paying a little extra to see the games in HD (maybe 30 to 40 dollars). My problem is that they're forcing this 'Superfan' crap on us, and charging a ridiculous price. If they want to charge extra for HD, fine, but make it affordable and make it a separate option.

Traak
05-27-2005, 08:17 PM
Good point BeerMan..but..your getting HD games for 70 cents or so a game with the extra crap..I'd say thats very cheap for HD even if they didnt include the crap :)

Spicy Mikey
05-28-2005, 06:01 AM
Good point BeerMan..but..your getting HD games for 70 cents or so a game with the extra crap..I'd say thats very cheap for HD even if they didnt include the crap :)

Taak, there's another point here that several people have made on this thread already that needs to be restated; why are we paying ANYTHING extra for HD at this point. HD is not cutting edge technology anymore. That's obvious if you walk into any electronics store these days and try and buy a good TV that's NOT HD capable. Not many around anymore.

Up until now even D* hasn't really charged us "extra" for the HD signal. It's true they have the HD package but that provides some additional channels and content not otherwise available. The extra fee is justifiable (IMO).

However, with the NFL-ST package, these games are already being provided in SD. Why are they now charging us EXTRA to watch the games in a higher quality format. This is a break in the trend which makes me angry. Shouldn't they be trying to provide us with the highest quality format possible anyway? They love to advertise they offer all Digital channels at no extra cost. Why aren't they doing that with HD. Like any business, they should be trying to find ways to enhance their service and offer MORE for less -- not the other way around. If they don't do that then their future position in the market is in jeopardy.

For some reason D* still sees HD as some sort of "extra" service because of the substantially larger data stream required for sending an HD broadcast. However, at some point (and I believe that time is now) these SAT companies need to start treating HD as the "standard" rather then a extra service and building the cost into their general pricing.

Traak
05-28-2005, 08:22 AM
However, with the NFL-ST package, these games are already being provided in SD. Why are they now charging us EXTRA to watch the games in a higher quality format.

The same reason that if you a better version for ANY PRODUCT on the market you have to pay for it. You want to get Realplayer and get better streaming video? you have to pay for it. You want a better version of Apple Quicktime? you have to pay for it. You want to go see a movie in IMAX? you have to pay more for it. You want a better dating service with pictures and RT chat? You have to pay for it. You want to listen to the best that Sirrus radio has to have? you have to pay an extra $5 a month for it. My point is DTV is NOT the only company that charges for a better or premium service above the normal offered for free. If DTV was the only company that was doing that then I'd say you might have a point.

The other reason is this. We all know that HD broadcast equipment is much more expensive to have at a game. We all know that DTV and other companies have spent millions to even get that kind of signal to our homes over the past 5 years or so. How can a company flourish by spending millions in research and development and then give the product away for free or at cost? Look at how the video gaming industry is. When a new system comes out, we pay premium pricing for that unit..say $399. Over the next couple years that same product will be $199. Why? because the people who want the best of the best will pay the extra and also pay for the initial R&D costs that was put into that product. So, when they sell a system a couple years later at $199 then anything..if anything made is pure profit. Somewhere there is a breakeven point in the sales to make up for that R&D.

"HD is not cutting edge technology anymore. That's obvious if you walk into any electronics store these days and try and buy a good TV that's NOT HD capable. Not many around anymore."

Your right. Tvs are now that way because the I believe the LAW says that they have to be?? But the point I want to make is that just because the TV is HD ready doesnt mean that the majority of people have it or want it. I would bet that HD is in less than 10% of the US households..or real close to that. Want some examples? CD technology was out for several years before it was "main stream" in US households. Same could be said for DVDs..heck, I know people who still watches VCR movies instead of DVDs. Go to Blockbuster and other video rental places, if VCR movies wasnt so popular still, why would they still rent them?

Your arguments to me would be valid if 80% of us had HD. But until then, and maybe forever, HD is a premium service and DTV has the right to charge a small fee for it just like EVERY company does now. I can't really think of one company that does give a free premium service.

Spicy Mikey
05-28-2005, 08:53 AM
TRAAK, You make some very good points and helped (in my mind) boil this whole argument down to the most basic question for this issue. Is a higher quality picture a premium service? Obviously I think not. You evidently do.

I suspect the majority of the "average" customer would agree that picture quality is not a service in itself. The "product" that D*, Comcast, etc. are providing is a delivery vehicle for content. D* provides nothing (unless you count ch 200, etc.) in terms of content. Their sole value to me is being a delivery service for content to my home.

The customer will expect that D* (or any supplier) deliver its product the fastest, best, and cheapest, from all others. If they don't do that, then customers will move elsewhere. That's Business 101. In this case D* is evidently making a calculated decision. They think they can treat HD as a "service" in itself for this NFL contract because they have a captive audience. Only time will tell if it back-fires on them.

Unfotunately, we can't really debate this last point because it's just opinion. However, given the size of this thread and length of time it has continued, it's obvious this issue is reaching a tipping point for many. D* will soon start loosing customers unless they start listening to their own ads and begin to "rethink" TV.

Thanks for the intelligent debate on the subject TRAAK

GRN
05-28-2005, 09:55 AM
For some reason D* still sees HD as some sort of "extra" service because of the substantially larger data stream required for sending an HD broadcast. However, at some point (and I believe that time is now) these SAT companies need to start treating HD as the "standard" rather then a extra service and building the cost into their general pricing.Providers will start treating HD as the standard when it becomes the standard. Right now, the standard is digital SD. Some companies, like Cablevision, still provide analog signals.

HD is still not as widespread as it could/should be, and has not been embraced by everyone. Many stations still do not transmit in HD, and have not purchased HD equipment. And stations that do own HD equipment and have the capability to transmit in HD do so only on select programs.

To expect providers to treat HD as the standard, like any other channel, is a bit naïve. And build it into their pricing? How fair is that for the people that don't have an HD set or don't want HD? For better or for worse, the current model, of having people who want the service paying extra for it, is as fair as it gets.

Traak
05-28-2005, 10:22 AM
Spicy,

Great debate bro :)

If everyone had the same opinions then this world would be a mess.

oblioman
05-28-2005, 10:46 AM
The same reason that if you a better version for ANY PRODUCT on the market you have to pay for it. You want to get Realplayer and get better streaming video? you have to pay for it. You want a better version of Apple Quicktime? you have to pay for it. You want to go see a movie in IMAX? you have to pay more for it. You want a better dating service with pictures and RT chat? You have to pay for it. You want to listen to the best that Sirrus radio has to have? you have to pay an extra $5 a month for it. My point is DTV is NOT the only company that charges for a better or premium service above the normal offered for free. If DTV was the only company that was doing that then I'd say you might have a point.

The other reason is this. We all know that HD broadcast equipment is much more expensive to have at a game. We all know that DTV and other companies have spent millions to even get that kind of signal to our homes over the past 5 years or so. How can a company flourish by spending millions in research and development and then give the product away for free or at cost? Look at how the video gaming industry is. When a new system comes out, we pay premium pricing for that unit..say $399. Over the next couple years that same product will be $199. Why? because the people who want the best of the best will pay the extra and also pay for the initial R&D costs that was put into that product. So, when they sell a system a couple years later at $199 then anything..if anything made is pure profit. Somewhere there is a breakeven point in the sales to make up for that R&D.

"HD is not cutting edge technology anymore. That's obvious if you walk into any electronics store these days and try and buy a good TV that's NOT HD capable. Not many around anymore."

Your right. Tvs are now that way because the I believe the LAW says that they have to be?? But the point I want to make is that just because the TV is HD ready doesnt mean that the majority of people have it or want it. I would bet that HD is in less than 10% of the US households..or real close to that. Want some examples? CD technology was out for several years before it was "main stream" in US households. Same could be said for DVDs..heck, I know people who still watches VCR movies instead of DVDs. Go to Blockbuster and other video rental places, if VCR movies wasnt so popular still, why would they still rent them?

Your arguments to me would be valid if 80% of us had HD. But until then, and maybe forever, HD is a premium service and DTV has the right to charge a small fee for it just like EVERY company does now. I can't really think of one company that does give a free premium service.

Current law mandates that certain sizes of TV be Digital - not HD ready. Big difference. To me, HD is not a premium service - I watch it every night for free via OTA. As soon as our esteemed politicians get the lead out of their heads and follow through with the digital conversion you will see locals pushing the cable and sat. industry to fess up and offer what the consumer demands. As a delivery service - would you rather get your morning newspaper delivered to you dry and readable or soggy and torn.

Traak
05-28-2005, 12:35 PM
To me, HD is not a premium service - I watch it every night for free via OTA. As soon as our esteemed politicians get the lead out of their heads and follow through with the digital conversion you will see locals pushing the cable and sat. industry to fess up and offer what the consumer demands. As a delivery service - would you rather get your morning newspaper delivered to you dry and readable or soggy and torn.

Well, your a lucky one then. HD signals do not travel far. Locals will never able to push HD to the majority of people unless your asking the politicians to force our scientists to figure out a way to get the signal to anywhere in the US..lol ok. Heck, politicians are RESTRICTING technology advancement due to the Betamax Law or whatever its called. You will never see in your lifetime HD signals OTA for everyone. Thats why there is a service called DTV and Time Warner and all the others..to get that signal to most of the country.

Just like Spicy, you are in a super minority of DTV owners that can get HD OTA. Most of us are relying on DTV and cable to get it.

The thing that bothers me when reading all the negative posts is that it seems no one cares that DTV spent millions to send up 2 more birds to GIVE US THE BEST HD possible!! Maybe in the next year or 2 it will be a standard service, who knows, but for now its a premium service offered by DTV.

"To me, HD is not a premium service - I watch it every night for free via OTA"

Well guess what..I can listen to the radio for free all day long in my car and at home. If I want BETTER programming..I will pay $10 a month for Sirrius or the other bird radio systems. Its the same thing. I don't see many screaming that Sirrius is not free..why should we for DTV? Go back to analog cable and some digital cable and pay about the same thing and you will be back..and pay the extra for HD..:) When the new birds go live..all this talk with end..count on it :D

cinzano
05-30-2005, 08:42 AM
Television Week has a story on the Sunday Ticket issue

May 30, 2005
DirecTV Irks Sports Fans With 'HD Tax'
Sunday Ticket Surcharge Leads to Online Protests
By James Hibberd
Television Week
Contact: [email protected]

DirecTV's plan to charge NFL Sunday Ticket viewers an extra $99 to watch games in high definition has sparked a revolt among frustrated subscribers, who called the "HD tax" the last straw in a series of expensive HD programming costs.

More than 500 subscribers have signed an online pledge to cancel their Sunday Ticket service if plans for the so-called "SuperFan" surcharge, announced on DirecTV's Web site three weeks ago, go forward.

"I think they've gone too far," said Mike Mazza, a Florida software engineer and six-year DirecTV subscriber. "They're not charging for additional content, like with HD channels. They're charging me for a better picture in a format the country is supposed to be migrating to."

The surcharge is particularly frustrating for subscribers because DirecTV is considered to have the most expensive HD programming package among the major video providers, despite having only four basic cable HD channels nationwide. Cable companies such as Comcast and Time Warner typically offer services in which subscribers pay $5 to $10 per month for an HD package that includes about 10 HD channels and the use of an HD receiver/digital video recorder. DirecTV competitor DISH Network also offers a high-definition receiver with its $9.99 HD package but charges $250 to upgrade to an HD DVR.

DirecTV, however, charges a monthly fee of $10.99 plus the entire cost of its proprietary receiver-$299 for standard HD and, until two weeks ago, a whopping $999 for an HD DVR.

"I think they underestimated the impact of this as a public relations issue," said Mr. Mazza, who paid $999 for his DirecTV HD DVR. "Enough is enough already."

Sunday Ticket has been available on an annual subscription basis for DirecTV subscribers since 1995. The package allows fans to see every regular-season NFL game (except local games, which are blacked out). In 2002 DirecTV signed an exclusive five-year contract extension with the NFL worth about $2 billion. Last year, when DirecTV was acquired by News Corp., the Sunday Ticket package cost $199 and included HD games. This year, the price has gone up to $219, plus $99 for HD games.

DirecTV spokesperson Robert Marsocci pointed out the HD "SuperFan" add-on includes new features, such as viewer-selected camera angles, the ability to follow eight games on one screen and a condensed highlights-only version of games. Subscribers to the premium package will also be able to index, search and view specific plays by player or team on game day. Viewers can create their own highlight show.

"We are catering to the die-hard football fan," Mr. Marsocci said. "We really believe, for those fans who really want to have the ultimate football experience, we think they'd be more than willing to pay $99 to get these compelling and unique new features. Certainly we understand those who received HD for free last year, we understand their concern, and we looked long and hard at the best way to package this."

But North Arkansas Times sports columnist Joe West was so irate about the surcharge that he declared he was dumping DirecTV after six years.

"It's like losing my best friend," Mr. West wrote, "after my best friend ate my last bowl of chili and slugged me in the gut."

After nine years as a DirecTV customer, Matt Cramer of South Carolina started Web site Nohdtax.com to rally support for repealing the charge. "High-definition enthusiasts are as passionate about their television as NFL fans are passionate about football," Mr. Cramer said. "DirecTV has managed to come up with a program that irritates a group that shares both passions."

Bruce Leichtman, president of the digital television analyst firm Leichtman Research Group, agreed the charge was ill-conceived.

"People who have Sunday Ticket typically have had DirecTV for long periods of time," Mr. Leichtman said. "You're talking about your best customers-early adopters with high incomes. When you push your best customers too far, that's not a good situation."

Still, Mr. Leichtman predicted few DirecTV subscribers will cancel their service. "There's a small but loyal following to Sunday Ticket games and there's no place else to go for it," he said.

The controversy comes at an awkward time for DirecTV, which is fighting an HD services war against EchoStar and cable. Though DirecTV is taking significant action to secure future HD services, EchoStar and cable currently offer more bang for the HD dollar.

The battle intensified after the demise last month of Voom, the all-HD satellite service, when both DBS providers scrambled to pick up the service's 38,000 customers. EchoStar snatched up 10 of Voom's channels, which increased the number of DISH HD offerings to 15. DISH offered former Voom subscribers the option of switching to DISH at a discount, as well as offering current HD customers the chance to add 10 Voom channels for an additional $5 a month. Though HD subscriber numbers are not available, DISH spokesman Mark Cicero said, "We had a significant blip of HD customers as soon as we grabbed those Voom channels."

DirecTV countered by putting out a $200 coupon for former Voom subscribers interested in buying a DirecTV receiver and slashed the base price of its HD DVR from $999 to $699.

DirecTV is aware that it has fewer HD channels to offer than competitors. The satellite service is launching four high-definition satellites to expand its offerings to include local HD channels in most markets by next year. DirecTV also plans to cut the price of receivers to less than $300 and allow a lease option when the company rolls out its new MPEG-4 system, which allows for greater video stream compression.

DISH is taking a more passive approach, estimating that local HD channels will not be widely available until 2006.

"Cable is taking on more of the burden of the cost of HD, whereas DBS is putting the cost on the customer for now. That's why their box costs $700," Mr. Leichtman said. "DirecTV is basically stalling [on becoming cost-competitive] until they roll out their new services next year."

Whether the HD war is affecting DirecTV's churn rates is unclear. Sources said HD subscribers represent only about 5 percent of DBS subscribers.

In the fourth quarter of last year, DISH gained more customers than DirecTV. In the first quarter of 2005, however, the reverse was true, with DirecTV adding 505,000 to a total of 14.4 million customers and DISH gaining 325,000 to total of 11.23 million subscribers. Still, DISH enjoyed a profitable quarter-$318 million in profit and a 28 percent increase in sales.

http://www.tvweek.com/article.cms?articleId=28188

oblioman
05-30-2005, 09:33 AM
Well, your a lucky one then. HD signals do not travel far. Locals will never able to push HD to the majority of people unless your asking the politicians to force our scientists to figure out a way to get the signal to anywhere in the US..lol ok. Heck, politicians are RESTRICTING technology advancement due to the Betamax Law or whatever its called. You will never see in your lifetime HD signals OTA for everyone. Thats why there is a service called DTV and Time Warner and all the others..to get that signal to most of the country.

Just like Spicy, you are in a super minority of DTV owners that can get HD OTA. Most of us are relying on DTV and cable to get it.

The thing that bothers me when reading all the negative posts is that it seems no one cares that DTV spent millions to send up 2 more birds to GIVE US THE BEST HD possible!! Maybe in the next year or 2 it will be a standard service, who knows, but for now its a premium service offered by DTV.

"To me, HD is not a premium service - I watch it every night for free via OTA"

Well guess what..I can listen to the radio for free all day long in my car and at home. If I want BETTER programming..I will pay $10 a month for Sirrius or the other bird radio systems. Its the same thing. I don't see many screaming that Sirrius is not free..why should we for DTV? Go back to analog cable and some digital cable and pay about the same thing and you will be back..and pay the extra for HD..:) When the new birds go live..all this talk with end..count on it :D

Gotta disagree. Before cable and sats...can you guess how people received a signal for tv? OTA and not for a "super minority". I currently subscribe to Comcast but use them less and OTA more because the picture quality is so much better. As soon as the digital conversion is completed I am sure I will not use comcast at all. To get back to the post's on this forum and the disgruntled Dtv users they have a valid point. DTV is asking for more money for HD. You compared them to Sirious radio - pay radio - but you forgot to mention a major difference - Sirious is adding content without a major price increase. DirecTv is not adding content - just a major price increase.

Traak
05-30-2005, 11:36 AM
First off, you are comparing regular broadcast OTA vs HD OTA which this topic is about. Regular OTA can be captured easy from a good distance. I live 70 miles south of Cleveland and can pick up a good signal from there. But..HD signals can't go much more than 20miles or so without some sort of 50' tower and some crazy electronics. So, HD OTA is for the minority of HD viewers or you wouldnt see all the gripes about the Gov't not letting DTV give us HD for FOX, CBS, NBC and ABC.

Secondly, the post before me if you read stated that DTV IS adding content..here is the blurb of interest from that post ( REAL GOOD POST BTW) that states the superfan package is an upgrade and adds content. They are NOT just charging for HD signals.


DirecTV spokesperson Robert Marsocci pointed out the HD "SuperFan" add-on includes new features, such as viewer-selected camera angles, the ability to follow eight games on one screen and a condensed highlights-only version of games. Subscribers to the premium package will also be able to index, search and view specific plays by player or team on game day. Viewers can create their own highlight show.

"We are catering to the die-hard football fan," Mr. Marsocci said. "We really believe, for those fans who really want to have the ultimate football experience, we think they'd be more than willing to pay $99 to get these compelling and unique new features. Certainly we understand those who received HD for free last year, we understand their concern, and we looked long and hard at the best way to package this."


Who knows..more people complain maybe they can offer just the HD signal for the game for free instead of paying for the 8 games in one picture, different angles, and so on..But, you have to admit, if you love football, those options are awesome and NO ONE BUT DTV CAN PROVIDE THAT KIND OF AWESOME SERVICE!! WOOOT!

Also, how is Sirrius adding content from normal OTA radio besides taking away the commercials? They are doing the same thing as DTV with football..giving digital signal with specific programming so you can easily choose what you want to watch or listen too..Same thing to me.

Spicy Mikey
05-30-2005, 02:09 PM
Hey Traak,

Do you work for DirecTV? You sound like a walking commercial for DirecTV? Just kidding around. No offense intended :) You make good arguments and present them well.



Regardless, you DO seem to see DirecTV's perspective extremely well. Although this perspective is valid, I'd argue, that in a customer/supplier relationship, the only real perspective that matters is the customer's perspective.



I've been in business for many years and have learned (the hard way) that you can't argue with the customer -- even if your right. It's like arguing with your mother -- you always loose (at least I do). If most people feel like YOU, then DirecTV will be able to continue to charge extra (maybe even raise the price further) as more HD comes online. However, if they do that, and the majority don't see the value in it, then their market share will begin to erode -- quickly.



I'm not in the SAT business but maybe there are some real physical obstacles these companies are now facing with the emergence of HD. Maybe D* is trying to test the price limits of the market for "HD" to overcome these problems. If so, maybe the tide is going to turn on SAT in the coming years back towards terrestrial based transmission with fiber optics, etc. Maybe the cost per megabit of transmission is just too high for them to make a fair profit and compete with cable in the short term without some serious "breakthroughs" that go beyond MPEG4. Maybe, maybe, maybe....



We know they certainly can't compete with cable and the phone companies for Internet access. Their Direcway is a joke and not a real option if you have other choices. If their rebroadcast business starts going that way because of HD then the only ones staying with them will be those same people forced to use Direcway. The ones without choice.



I don't wish D* any bad luck. Like I said in previous posts, I'm an "invested customer". I'm pulling for them. However, I can say this; I won't be investing any further in DirecTV until I see them bringing me innovative services faster and cheaper.



Anyone whoever competed to offer a product or service to a customer knows that there are three attributes to competition. Speed, quality, and price. You can only deliver two of the three. You can't do all of them. No one can. One always has to give. That's why there will always be fast food and elegant dining. Their focus on the three attributes is different. Each is sellable under the right circumstances. You can do it faster, and better, but it won't be cheap. You can do it cheaper and faster, but it won't be better. You can do it better and cheaper, but it won't be fast. That's just the laws of nature. The way I see it, DirecTV is entering dangerous waters. Up until recently they had the faster and better categories in their corner compared with cable. However, they recently have started loosing their innovative edge and aren’t as “fast” delivering new services. Now, we see these price increases causing them to also start to loose the "price" advantage. Bells are going off in my head as a customer. They better hope these satellites launch without a hitch and work as expected quickly, otherwise they're going to be in deep @#[email protected] real quick.

oblioman
05-30-2005, 03:59 PM
Sorry Trakk,,gotta disagree again. DTv is not adding more content. 13 games is 13 games. The viewer has added enhancements on how they view the same content. a majority of the people in this post do not want and are unwilling to pay the extra $99 to be able to view the same content from different angles. DirecTv should have left the Sunday ticket alone and left it up to the subscribers if they wanted to pay for the different views.

GRN
05-30-2005, 05:52 PM
Those "added enhancements" are the biggest joke. DirecTV trying to tout those as the reason for the price hike is an insult to everyone's intelligence. I love football, and those options are far from "awesome", IMHO.

Traak
05-30-2005, 08:44 PM
Those "added enhancements" are the biggest joke. DirecTV trying to tout those as the reason for the price hike is an insult to everyone's intelligence. I love football, and those options are far from "awesome", IMHO.


Do you even realize the number of people who bet on football and sit at bars/pubs with the papers and watch all the games as much as they can?

Do you realize the popularity of fantasy football and the number of people who go to bars/pubs to watch their players and keep up on the stats every Sunday?

Read the news on these 2 subjects and you will see why these "added enhancements" will get more subscribers than the number they lose..lets bet a giftcard lunch.

By the way..I don't bet on football and I don't play fantasy football much..But both are HUGE..and the Superfan package is a perfect calling card for both.

Ob, it sounds like your right, most people on these boards won't pay the extra $99 or 70 cents a game for HD but DTV is catering to people who will. They will earn more business from them then losing from here.

Spicy,

"I've been in business for many years and have learned (the hard way) that you can't argue with the customer -- even if your right. It's like arguing with your mother -- you always loose (at least I do). If most people feel like YOU, then DirecTV will be able to continue to charge extra (maybe even raise the price further) as more HD comes online. However, if they do that, and the majority don't see the value in it, then their market share will begin to erode -- quickly."

Your right, the customer should be always right. But over the years this practice has diminished. I think this issue is more than a who is right and who is wrong thing. I think DTV is offering a service above and beyond what anyone else is or can do. Either you want it and pay for it or you dont want it and dont pay for it. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy it. I also think that by early next year, we will look back at this and laugh. DTV will be the premier HD company by far, as more and more people drop DN for DTV for the HD content prices will go down. The only real question I have for DN and cable companies..I already know about cable companies cause I have friends who have it and complain all the time, How will DN and cable compete with DTV next year with HD? The only answer I can come up is ...raise prices to support R&D for better programming in a few years to compete or just leave it as is and hope for the best. Well if they hope for the best, you and I both know they will be out of business cause HD will be a wanted item and neither one other than DTV will be able to offer it. That only leaves raising prices.

Its late, im babbling..but anyways..I dont work for DTV :) I'm just a dude in central OH who likes DTV and hopes to have it for many more years to come with or without the "fanpack" :D

GRN
05-31-2005, 01:09 AM
Do you even realize the number of people who bet on football and sit at bars/pubs with the papers and watch all the games as much as they can?Well, since I'm not one of those people, why should I wind up having to pay for a service that I find absolutely worthless? Two points:

(1) DirecTV is claiming in their most recent press release that the reason that people have to pay $99 is because of these "compelling and unique new features" AKA Superfan. If they're so compelling and unique, why not offer them by themselves? Answer: Because they know that by itself, Superfan wouldn't get nearly as many subscribers as they hope. But, if they bundle it together with the HD service, then they'll make a killing. Because, let's face it, there's plenty of people who will pay extra for the HD service, regardless. And people like me, who don't give a rat's @$$ about all that junk on the screen, get screwed. They should change the name of it from Superfan to Superscrewed.

(2) DirecTV can now spin it as Superfan being a great success, because, oh gee, look how many people subscribe to it, conveniently ignoring the real reason behind people paying $99:HD.

Hey, if people want the service, more power to them. But, like I said earlier, it'd be nice if DirecTV would stop insulting our intelligence.

Businesses must be happy, though, because, according to your logic, their workers are going to be so busy looking at stats on Sunday that they won't waste time on Monday mornings logging onto ESPN.com and looking at all the stats from the previous day's games. :D

Do you realize the popularity of fantasy football and the number of people who go to bars/pubs to watch their players and keep up on the stats every Sunday?

Read the news on these 2 subjects and you will see why these "added enhancements" will get more subscribers than the number they lose..lets bet a giftcard lunch.

By the way..I don't bet on football and I don't play fantasy football much..But both are HUGE..and the Superfan package is a perfect calling card for both.Great! If some gambler or fantasy footballer is so enamored with all the enhancements, I'll gladly send him my bill for $99, because according to DirecTV's press release, that's what the $99 is going towards. And since I don't want or or use it, then I don't see why I have to pay for it.

Ob, it sounds like your right, most people on these boards won't pay the extra $99 or 70 cents a game for HD but DTV is catering to people who will. They will earn more business from them then losing from here.Well, seeing as how DirecTV has established that the $99 is going towards the wonderful enhancements of Supercrap, then to say that DirecTV is catering to people who will pay $99 for HD is incorrect.

Spicy,

Your right, the customer should be always right. But over the years this practice has diminished. I think this issue is more than a who is right and who is wrong thing. I think DTV is offering a service above and beyond what anyone else is or can do. Either you want it and pay for it or you dont want it and dont pay for it. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy it.You're right, no one's holding a gun to anyone's head. What DirecTV is doing, though, is more painful: They're holding an unlubricated object and preparing to ram it into a very uncomfortable orifice to it's HD customers. Because in effect, they're saying that the $99 is going towards Superfan, but if I don't want Superfan, if I just want the same HD service that they provided at no extra charge last year without all that extraneous garbage on the screen, tough, I'm out of luck.

You say "either you want it and pay for it or you dont want it and dont pay for it." Fine. But I don't want Superfan. I want HD. According to DirecTV, I can't get HD unless I pay for Superfan, because they conveniently made it so that I have to pay extra for Superfan to get HD. That's a helluva Catch-22. I'd love to have that conversation with a DirecTV CSR:

Me: Hi, I'd like to get the HD games on the ST.

CSR: That'll be $99.

Me: Wait, wait, wait. According to your company, the $99 is for the unique and compelling enhancements of Superfan. I don't want that. I just want plain ol' vanilla HD games. No enhancements or sprinkles, please.

If she thought that through, her head would probably explode! :D

I also think that by early next year, we will look back at this and laugh. DTV will be the premier HD company by far, as more and more people drop DN for DTV for the HD content prices will go down. The only real question I have for DN and cable companies..I already know about cable companies cause I have friends who have it and complain all the time, How will DN and cable compete with DTV next year with HD? The only answer I can come up is ...raise prices to support R&D for better programming in a few years to compete or just leave it as is and hope for the best. Well if they hope for the best, you and I both know they will be out of business cause HD will be a wanted item and neither one other than DTV will be able to offer it. That only leaves raising prices.I highly doubt DISH and cable companies are going to go out of business anytime soon. 'nuff said.

Its late, im babbling..but anyways..I dont work for DTV :) I'm just a dude in central OH who likes DTV and hopes to have it for many more years to come with or without the "fanpack" :D Hey, I have no problem if you want to pull out your pom-poms and be a DirecTV apologist. It's a free country. Hell, they should put you on their payroll. :D But the bottom line is this: DirecTV is saying that Superfan costs $99 because of the onscreen enhancements. And that is a crock. If they really felt that way, they would have offered it standalone and not bundled it with the HD service.

In the end, it really won't matter, because ST subscribers are a small percentage of their business, and whatver defections they have probably won't make a dent in their bottom line. But we the people are not idiots, and for DirecTV to treat us as such, I think that probably stings as much, if not more, than the price hike.

Spicy Mikey
05-31-2005, 06:24 AM
Hey GRN. Well said. Anyone that can put 2 and 2 together realizes exactly why D* bundled the new "enhanced features" with the HD. It's insulting and angers me more then the price increase. Manipulating me destroys my trust in them as a supplier and is the reason I won't jump into offerings anymore from this company. I'm in a holding pattern for now until I see some sign that they plan to invest in themselves without expecting the customer to finance it.

You're also right (unfortunately) about our small numbers. According to the TVWeek article I was referring to earlier, only 5% of their customers use HD services. We're a small number and thus they can "tinker" with the service and experiment with pricing without fear of effecting the bottom line too much. Regardless, I truly believe they are playing with fire. We're their most loyal customers. We are 5% of their customer base but I'm certain we make up much more then 5% of their profit. That's the other reason I have lost my trust in them. This move makes no strategic business sense. They must be idiots. You can't anticipate an idiots next move.

GRN
05-31-2005, 07:53 AM
Thanks.

The beautfiul part about this whole thing is the company line that some of DirecTV's CSR's are spewing now. If you call to complain about the $99 hike, it's "the NFL's fault". Think about that for a minute. DirecTV partook in an open bidding process, and won because it made a conscious effort to submit the highest bid. Now that it has the package, we can only surmise that they are not making money hand over fist like they expected, because they're raising prices like wildfire on their ST package, but now apparently it's the big bad NFL's fault that they have to do it.

I love how DirecTV tries to act the part of the victimized mom-and-pop store while trying to make the NFL look like the evil distributor. Keep in mind that no one held a gun to their head and forced them to take the NFL package. No, they bid for it and won it. They decided that there was X amount of dollars that they were prepared to pay for the NFL package. But now suddenly the NFL is to blame for the price hike. That'd be like me going on eBay, deciding to bid on an item, getting into a bidding war, winning the item, then turning around and blaming the seller for the high cost of the item.

Superfan is the reason behind the $99 hike. No wait, the NFL is the reason behind the $99 hike. I wonder what the excuse is going to be next week when they continue getting hammered by negative press for the price hike? :rolleyes:

Noleman
05-31-2005, 10:28 AM
Will all the games be in HD? I am a Jaguar fan whose games are usually second market tier, hence the games are rarely in HD. If I can guarantee the Jaguar games are in HD it will alleviate the pain a little but if not all the games are offered, then this sucks.

Spicy Mikey
05-31-2005, 11:46 AM
No. To add insult to injury. It's only about half the games on Sunday. Wait, there's more! There's also no schedule of which games will be broadcast in HD by the networks so you can't determine if the games you're interested in will be available in HD.

This was never really a problem in the past since we didn't need to pay extra for the higher quality picture. You just tuned in on Sunday and were pleasantly surprised if your game was in HD.

The whole thing is a joke. Who in their right mind would be willing to pay for something that can't be quantified before hand. What is this; Let's Make A Deal? Bob, I'll trade in my $99 for what's behind curtain number 2!

GRN
05-31-2005, 12:20 PM
The whole thing is a joke. Who in their right mind would be willing to pay for something that can't be quantified before hand. What is this; Let's Make A Deal? Bob, I'll trade in my $99 for what's behind curtain number 2!

Wait Mikey, you got it wrong. You're not paying $99 for the HD. You're paying $99 for the wonderful enhancements of Supercrap and because the big, bad NFL is holding a gun to DirecTV forcing them to raise the price! :D :D :D

wolfiefan
06-01-2005, 12:08 PM
I spoke with a guy in the Retention Dept. and his explanation was that DirecTV and the NFL just redid their deal this offseason(which is true) and that the NFL basically sets the price for the NFL Season Ticket and that the NFL added this extra stipulation of the 99 dollars. I am not sure if I believe it or not but it was the first time I ever got any kind of answer instead of just a whole bunch of 'blah blah blah'. He also gave me a 75 dollar credit so I am only gonna be charged an extra 24 dollars for this new service...and I was able to live with that...and there was no 'contract extension' that I had to agree to.

Spicy Mikey
06-01-2005, 12:15 PM
Oh, so DirecTV is taking direction on their pricing from the NFL now :)

This is getting more rediculous by the minute. Who has their hands on the steering wheel over at DirecTV. Are they total idiots or do they think their customers are?

GRN
06-01-2005, 02:01 PM
I spoke with a guy in the Retention Dept. and his explanation was that DirecTV and the NFL just redid their deal this offseason(which is true) and that the NFL basically sets the price for the NFL Season Ticket and that the NFL added this extra stipulation of the 99 dollars. I am not sure if I believe it or not but it was the first time I ever got any kind of answer instead of just a whole bunch of 'blah blah blah'. He also gave me a 75 dollar credit so I am only gonna be charged an extra 24 dollars for this new service...and I was able to live with that...and there was no 'contract extension' that I had to agree to.That is an outright lie on the part of DirecTV. The original deal for ST was a five year, $2 billion deal that ran through 2007. Then, the geniuses at DirecTV decided to renegotiate that, and this season signed a new 5-year deal, this time for $3.5 billion through 2010.

However, the new 5-year deal doesn't start at the end of the original deal. The new deal eliminates the 2006 and 2007 fee amounts under the original contract. So, in essence, DirecTV paid $3.5 billion for a contract extension for three years (2008, 2009, 2010). Even though they still haven't paid for the 2006 and 2007 seasons under the old deal, I find it difficult to imagine that they can be crowing about this on the executive racquetball court when in essence they wind up paying more than they would have under the old deal. Basically, DirecTV canceled out the last 2 years of the original deal, and are now going to owe the NFL a higher amount for those two seasons. Whoever was the head negotiator for DirecTV should give his salary back to the company, because he got fleeced.

The NFL probably doesn't care either way how it gets its money. All they know is that on whatever date they agreed upon, DirecTV turns over its payment. In other words, let's say they have a quarterly payment due them every year. Under the new deal ($3.5 billion), they would get $175 million quarterly. All Paul Tagliabue and company are concerned about is that Rupert has that check in the league office before 5:00 PM that business day. Whether it comes out of Rupert's pocket, his son's trust fund, the sale of one of his mansions, they don't care. The NFL has no input in the operations of DirecTV. Hell, Rupert could probably tell them he's going to charge $4.99 for ST, and the NFL will give him their blessing, while sternly reminding him that the $175,000,000 check better clear when they get it.

It's very obvious what DirecTV is doing. They've realized how badly they got beaten by the NFL during negotiations, and are now blaming the NFL for the raise. This moron in the retention department is just some poor slob who has to toe the company line and blame someone else, because *gasp* there's no possible way that this could be DirecTV's fault, no siree!!!! It sounds like the tact that DirecTV is taking is deflecting negative publicity away from themselves and putting it solely on the NFL. Somehow I don't think the NFL will take too kindly to it, especially if DirecTV really pushes this as themselves being unwitting pawns of the NFL.

BTW here (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7868647) is the press release for the recent renegotiation. Notice how in the press release the new interactive features are considered a premium service, yet the HD component of it is not mentioned. Why? Because that decision was made later by DirecTV when they realized that these new features would not be able to stand on their own, and that charging $99 for them would guarantee a loss, regardless of how many gamblers and fantasy footballers are out there.

oblioman
06-01-2005, 02:33 PM
Retention Department? Retention Department? That's the best I've read all day. Only DirecTv would need a "retention department". :D

RX8
06-01-2005, 03:05 PM
So the question is will customers abandon this obvious attempt at milking NFL fans because Directtv feels some just can't live without what they offer as I have done? They need us more then we need them and as in all business/customer relations nowadays customers don't seem to realize just how much influence they could have to keep things fair and still allow the companies to make a decent profit by simply refusing what the customer deems overpriced services, concessions, etc.
Why do people drop 100 bones on a few hotdogs and beer at a ballgame. 1 nationwide season of not buying concessions or 2, whatever it takes you would think people could watch a game without shoving crap down their throat they don't need anyway. I am no angel, but customers are getting fleeced daily and not just by Directtv.
Back in the early days businesses would go out of their way to make the customer happy. Now it seems the customer will do whatever it takes to make themselves happy while the business thrives on their inability to just say no once.

Chiefsfan
06-01-2005, 03:26 PM
I have to think that the great majority of people subscribing to the package don't even HAVE HD, so if they lose a few, who cares. I bet every single person who has ever been ON this thread or on the entire forum could cancel and it wouldn't dent them all that much. Ergo, "F" off, HD lovers.. Still, it made me feel better to cancel the entire package. But if I lived away from a home broadcast on OTA, even I might have had to at least subscribe to the damn thing.. Such is football loyalty.

RX8
06-02-2005, 07:27 AM
Now if the Chief's would repay you for your loyalty and get a defense :) I am right up the road from you at Whiteman AFB, but orginally from Joplin...

Spicy Mikey
06-02-2005, 09:11 AM
Yea GRN. I agree that's the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. It makes me realize that either DirecTV has no respect for the intelligence of its customers OR the CS person was an idiot (or both).

Personally, I called DirecTV and sent them an email or two. I never received a response from the emails which I thought that was strange since they always have in the past. They must be getting a lot of mail on this subject.



The phone call resulted in nothing substantial. I got some stupid response about how they've added these new features and needed to raise the price. My response was I don't want these new features and just want my games delivered to me like last year. Of course, she had no response to that comment. She also didn't offer me any break on the package like some others have. Personally, I'm not even sure I want the price break. That's really not the point. I can afford $99. I just don't think we should have to pay it.



I suspect they are at a point where they don't have a scripted company line yet and the CS people are just spitting out what sounds good. I'm sure they realize it was probably a stupid idea at this point to create this "SuperFan" package but they are somewhat committed to continue the program for this year since many have probably already paid for it.



I hope they realize now that people are not prepared to pay extra simply for a better picture. As customers, shouldn't we be EXPECTING them to deliver the best picture possible anyway? I expect them to do whatever they can to keep delivering a better picture each year. I don't expect to have to pay extra for that! It should be their goal to stay innovative. Are my expectations too high? My company develops and supports management and productivity software. Should I expect the customer to keep paying more each year simply because the program continues to get incrementally better with every release? The answer is no. The customer EXPECTS the program to get better each year. They EXPECT me to be innovative and grow the product. In fact, not only will they not pay extra for the growing product, they will go elsewhere if the product doesn't grow. This is normal for every competitive business I know. DirecTV is living in a dream world if they can lay the cost of growth on the customer.



Just like the broadcasters, DirecTV simply must accept this new format and the associated capital costs for the conversion as a long term cost of doing business. They can't lay this cost for content on the customers anymore. The customer needs to accept the higher cost of the receiving equipment and the broadcasters (and rebroadcasters) must accept the higher cost of the transmission equipment -- period. We're not "SuperFans" simply because we want a better quality picture.



I know I'm dating myself now, but I'm old enough to remember the conversion from BW to color back in the mid and late 60's (I was a kid but I remember it very well). Everything transitioned in about 4 years without a problem. Just like the HD conversion, the Color TV's cost lots more then the BW sets but everything converted quickly and the broadcast companies embraced the conversion as fast as possible. In fact, they used it as a marketing ploy. Anyone remember the NBC color peacock and the gingle "In living Color" before each show broadcast in color? I can just imagine what DirecTV would have done if they were around back then. Everyone that wanted to watch the Beverly Hillbillies in color would have been called a "SuperFan" and charged extra! :)

GRN
06-02-2005, 10:18 AM
I have to think that the great majority of people subscribing to the package don't even HAVE HD, so if they lose a few, who cares. I bet every single person who has ever been ON this thread or on the entire forum could cancel and it wouldn't dent them all that much. Ergo, "F" off, HD lovers.. Good point. Keep in mind, though, HDTV owners are some of the biggest buyers of the NFL Sunday Ticket. DirecTV is basically just thumbing their nose at them with this Superfan package by bundling the HD telecast with it. In effect, they're using the HD subscribers to subsidize Superfan.

And that goes back to the point I was making: If the braintrust at DirecTV really, REALLY thought that Superfan was this wonderful thing, they would have offered it on its own. But they knew that no one would pay $99 for features that they can see for free on NFL Prime Time. Because you take away the so-called interactive features, and that's basically what Superfan is: an expensive highlights reel.

Anyone who has the attitude of "f--- off, HD lovers" is a bit misguided. If a company started charging deaf people a premium for closed captioning, would we tell the deaf people to f--- off when they complained about it? Probably not. And the truth of the matter is, all this probably wouldn't even be the hot stove issue it is had DirecTV just come out and been honest about the whole thing. Had they said straight out that they were going to charge extra for the HD telecasts due to the higher fees they are now paying for ST, the initial backlash would have still been the same, but at least they would have had a concrete reason why they were raising prices. Instead, what they did was make different excuses for the price hike. First it was Superfan. Then it was the NFL's fault.

Their retention people are slashing the prices in half for people who complain loud enough. Had DirectV done a plan where they charged $49.95 solely for HD telecasts, and $99 for Superfan w/HD, they would probably pull in the same amount of money anwyay. And knowing how the human psyche works, more people would probably be thinking "you know, I think I'll pony up the extra $50 to see what this Superfan thing is all about".

The above scenario gives subscribers a choice. Which right now, unfortunately is not the case. You want HD? OK, buy Superfan. Oh, you want HD but you don't want the interactive features? too bad, you have no other choice.

replayreb
06-02-2005, 12:43 PM
You will have 10+ HD football games every week for 17 weeks or so..Take the $99 and divide that by 17 and your looking at $6 a week..take that $6 a week (remember, its the cost of a lunch during the week) and divide it by 10+ games..now your at 60 cents..CENTS a game in HD!! :thumbsup: How in the world can you beat that??

I cancelled my Sunday Ticket subscription yesterday. Since all of the Sunday Ticket games are played simultaneously (Noon and 3:15 PM CST) you really don't get to watch all of the games. Once I factored that in with the fact that I missed a couple of Sundays doing family stuff and that I was able to catch a lot of the games I was interested on OTA HD, ESPNHD, MNF, etc. it really wasn't a good deal for me at $200/season much less $300.

Traak
06-02-2005, 04:09 PM
Good point. Keep in mind, though, HDTV owners are some of the biggest buyers of the NFL Sunday Ticket.

Ok Please show me your sources. I don't really know the numbers but I think its the other way around. I would bet HDTV owners make up around 10% of Sunday Ticket. Maybe that is where you and I always disagree. You think HDTV is in the majority and I think HDTV owners and watchers as of right now are in the minority by far. Ok, so people are buying the sets, maybe getting HD cable or bird service, but what makes you think that most of them are football lovers? You think you deserve the best as a standard, I think the best as of today is a higher lvl service.





If a company started charging deaf people a premium for closed captioning, would we tell the deaf people to f--- off when they complained about it? Probably not.

Wow, your really grasping for straws there. Now you have to compare HD to handicapped people. I really hope that you didnt mean to compare the two. You might as well said why not charge handicapped people a small parking fee for the close parking spaces at your local malls.

I'm not sure why the complaints. I mean EVERYONE charges for stuff. You have to pay to park your car (parking garages, lots), if you want a car wash you have options..if you want wax and clear coat then its extra, so on and so on and so on. Maybe everyone is getting tired of all this charge for this and charge for that..BUT..as soon as people realize that HD for TODAY..as of NOW..is a HIGHER LEVEL SERVICE..then all the sour tastes will go away. I'm telling you..in 3-5 years when HD is more common, all the fees will be gone.




You want HD? OK, buy Superfan. Oh, you want HD but you don't want the interactive features? too bad, you have no other choice.

Yes you do. Go to cable and watch your local game. Go to Dish and watch your local game. The rest of us will be watching Sunday Ticket because its a SERVICE and those who choose to watch it in HD because its a HIGHER SERVICE

Traak
06-02-2005, 04:25 PM
My company develops and supports management and productivity software. Should I expect the customer to keep paying more each year simply because the program continues to get incrementally better with every release? The answer is no. The customer EXPECTS the program to get better each year. They EXPECT me to be innovative and grow the product. In fact, not only will they not pay extra for the growing product, they will go elsewhere if the product doesn't grow.


Ok good, I'm glad you said you was in management and productivity software development. I've been waiting to get my point across and now I will. I too work with that kind of software. Tell the good people here that your company charges EXTRA for EXTRA features. Everytime I want to try and do a particular task but is not in the stardard package..then there is a fee to get that "module" to do what I want it to do. Maybe you don't and if not let me know and we can chat:) but EVERY company we used in the past and now..MAS90( more for billing and inventory management for now )..We get a nice little charge for incorperating something new to help us. I get peeved everytime I call but I know that they are not going to GIVE us extra stuff for free or they would be out of business.

I'm sure you was talking about updating your software ( patches or better versions) to stay competitive and to stay current with OSs and such but I would bet you also charge extra for extra features..Maybe I'm wrong..but I would gamble on it.

This is where I compare DTVs services. Standard service is $xxx, better service is more $$$ and HD is even more for now, the better stuff you want the more you have to pay..Just my view.

burtandi
06-02-2005, 04:38 PM
I have been reading this forum with great interest. I am a Steeler fan living in Birmingham, AL. Like others, I am a long time ST subscriber (since 96) who upgraded to HD at Christmas. We missed last season in HD but could not wait til 05. I also felt "cheated" when I learned that in order to get the games in HD, I would need to cough up the $99 for the superfan. My husband views it likeTraak and says "it is a high quality service and worth paying extra for."Yes, we can afford it, but the whole Superfan packaging is so transparent. If these features are so great, let them stand on their own merits. I have not complained about it to DirecTv as yet, but plan to do so.

Well, today I got the mail and got a cutesy little advertising piece that was personalized with my name on it, included a yellow penalty flag like the refs use and told me my ST package would automatically renew at $40 off the current rate of $219. It seems to me that was what we paid last year-$179. It also offered a free pay per view movie that we can redeem in the next 4-6 weeks. It is an appeasement and kinda softens the blow of the extra $99, though I still think they are making a big mistake. Did anyone else get this mailer?
I think ST subscribers are among the most loyal for the obvious reason it is exclusive. I also think ST viewers are among the early adopters and more apt to buy into HD early. Once you see a game in HD, it really is hard to go back to the SD. Our cable company is Charter and totally sucks. Last weekend, it rained all weekend here and my neighbors were watching TV with rabbit ears since Charter's service had been out for two days. I get really aggravated with DTv but considering the alternative, I will never go back to cable.

GRN
06-02-2005, 04:56 PM
Traak:

I never said that HDTV is in the majority. On any of my posts. Go read any copy of Home Theater magazine, where they actually do research on just such topics.

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you one or way or another, because it's obvious that:

(1) You're a DirecTV apologist and in your eyes they can do no wrong.

(2) You're going to cut and paste minor points in my posts and act like you're somehow disproving anything I said.

You didn't address any of my points about how DirecTV negotiated against themselves, are now paying a higher price for ST, and are smokescreening an extra fee. Last year HD was provided at no extra charge. Now this year suddenly it's a premium service? Usually it works the other way around.

If you bothered to read the rest of my post, I took the time to actually think of a more equitable solution to the situation. DirecTV messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you feel they're infallible and could not possibly do anything wrong. And if you do, then more power to you. You're just the kind of customer they're looking for.

Spicy Mikey
06-02-2005, 05:04 PM
Traak,

I can't debate you on this because we have a fundamental difference of opinion on a key fact. You think HD is a service in itself and I think HD is a natural evolution of an existing service that D* should provide as it comes available. Like I said before, I'll take responsibility to receive the broadcast by purchasing the extra equipment and D* should take responsibility to pass along the enhanced broadcasts. But again, it's just an opinion. I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. I'm not hear to argue with you (or anyone) on this subject. Just here to voice my opinion and let it settle in peoples gray matter as it will.

RX8
06-02-2005, 07:15 PM
Higher service? Of course its a higher service thus the outrageous cost of equipment that the customer pays for BTW. And you think once we pay for the equipment to acquire this higher service we should have to pay a higher fee on top of it to receive some of the HD programming? Why do you not see a problem with the customer paying for the receiver, the HD package and then still being charged more to get HD games. Whats the HD package monthly fee for?

BeerMan
06-03-2005, 12:03 AM
Well, today I got the mail and got a cutesy little advertising piece that was personalized with my name on it, included a yellow penalty flag like the refs use and told me my ST package would automatically renew at $40 off the current rate of $219. It seems to me that was what we paid last year-$179. It also offered a free pay per view movie that we can redeem in the next 4-6 weeks. It is an appeasement and kinda softens the blow of the extra $99, though I still think they are making a big mistake. Did anyone else get this mailer?


I also got the penalty flag in the mail. I wonder if I can sell it for $99 on ebay? :)

GRN
06-03-2005, 01:26 AM
Thank you, Burtandi. That's exactly what I've been saying all along. "Transparent" is the perfect word for what DirecTV is doing with Superfan.

Sports fans in general have been the leaders in early-HD adoption. Why? For the simple reason that professional sports leagues have been the pioneers in HD broadcasting. That point has been covered ad nauseum in trade magazines and numerous publications left and right. Why do you think HDTV sales went through the roof the weeks leading into last year's SuperBowl? And before anyone questions where I got that from, it was reported in Home Theater magazine.

The fact that ST went from $199 to $219 I can live with. Hey, it's the cost of doing business, especially when DirecTV's lawyers got owned by the NFL's lawyers during renegotiations. These things happen, and in that case I don't mind ponying up the money. But don't tell me I'm supposed to get on my hands and knees and slurp DirecTV like they're doing me a favor when they want to charge me a $99 fee on top of the other increase for something they gave me last year at no extra charge.

Fortunately for DirecTV, there are people who help keep them in business by getting bent over and accepting additional fees with nary a whimper. I'm glad to say I'm not one of those.

Spicy Mikey
06-03-2005, 06:31 AM
Higher service? Of course its a higher service thus the outrageous cost of equipment that the customer pays for BTW. And you think once we pay for the equipment to acquire this higher service we should have to pay a higher fee on top of it to receive some of the HD programming? Why do you not see a problem with the customer paying for the receiver, the HD package and then still being charged more to get HD games. Whats the HD package monthly fee for?

Good question RX8. Here's my views on that.
Equipment Cost: The equipment needed to receive the HD is more sophisticated. My HR10-250 has two HD receivers, two OTA receivers, a larger harddrive, etc. I don't expect to get that equipment for the same price as a simple SD receiver. That seems fair and logical to me. A simple radio costs less then a Yamaha receiver with 5 speakers and I have no problem paying more for the HD equipment.

HD Package Cost: The HD package costs a few dollars more but provides additional content. There are several additional HD channels you receive with that plan. We could argue whether the plan is good, but that's another argument. You pay for additional channels. By the way, you don't need the HD package to receive the HBO and SHO movies in HD if you already subscribe to those channels. All you need is the equipment.

HD Football Games: Here's where I (and many others) see the problem. We already purchased the equipment, we already subscribe to the NFL package. Why are we being charged extra now to receive the higher quality picture. Granted, the picture is a more desirable thing, but shouldn't DirecTV feel obligated to pass along the better picture sent by the broadcaster anyway? When movies are available with Digital soundtracks we automatically receive it. We don't need to subscribe to a "Dolby Digital SuperFan" package.

steve51wv
06-03-2005, 07:10 AM
Talk about beating a dead horse!! D* has the NFL contract until at least 2010. In addition, D* is launching multiple satellites to improve the HD content they provide us. I'm not crazy about paying the extra money for the NFL HD broadcasts but it's going to be a fact of life. I'm sure you will see E* and cable doing the same thing as more HD channels become available. My guess would be that sometime soon, you will have a package for MLB EI for the HD broadcasts as well. If it's going to cost more for the crystal clear feeds, I guess I will just have to bite my tongue and pay it. To me, it's not all that much money and worth it to get the HD broadcasts.

Spicy Mikey
06-03-2005, 07:38 AM
Talk about beating a dead horse!! D* has the NFL contract until at least 2010.

Another valid perspective Steve.

I agree with you we're starting to beat a dead horse here. These forums shouldn't really be as much about debating and arguing as sharing thoughts and informaton. This tread is degrading into a debate over opinions. That kind of debate can't be won so we're wasting our time. Let's just use this thread to share NEW information or opinions.

Most of us agree D*'s move was not appreciated (to put it nicely) :) Debating our opinions doesn't really get us anywhere. The real proof of all this will be how many people customers agree with you and are willing to pony up the extra money for the HD package this year. If the majority do without resistence then they win. If the majority don't then D* looses and they'll need to rethink their pricing models.

After listening to so many different valid opinions, my guess is that the signup for this SuperFan package will be underwelming for them and things will change next year. In fact, I'll go even farther in my predictions and say that we very well may turn on our TV's in September and simply find the games being broadcast in HD on the standard Sunday Ticket package.

Why do I think that may happen; because of all the uproar and negative feelings presented on this forum (and others). Even TVWeek picked up on the rumblings and wrote an article about it!

Think about it, we're a small representation of D*'s customers. The vast majority of customers don't even have a computer much less ever heard of these HD websites. Unless you've visited one of these websites (or D*'s website) and closely monitor DirecTV services, you probably don't even know about this package change yet. I suspect D* must be rethinking this whole plan beause of all the negative responses so far. I'm sure they're thinking about the potential REAL uproar that will occur on the first Sunday in the season when the MAJORITY of the customers turn on their TV and don't see the HD games anymore. That won't be a fun day for them.

Chiefsfan
06-03-2005, 11:06 AM
Now if the Chief's would repay you for your loyalty and get a defense :) I am right up the road from you at Whiteman AFB, but orginally from Joplin...

I took solace from the Red Sox fans.. If they can finally do it, maybe the Chiefs will. What will come first, everything HD all the time, or the Chiefs win the Super Bowl..?

CPanther95
06-03-2005, 11:38 AM
What makes no sense is even if you chalk up any discontent as a minor issue from an extreme minority of your customers - you still have to acknowledge that that same extreme minority is unlikely to have a tremendous positive impact on revenue either.

90% of NFL ST subs will be evaluating Superfan based on the new extra features. Pulling out HD games and putting them back into the base package won't devalue Superfan in the slightest for those 90%.

Spicy Mikey
06-03-2005, 11:52 AM
Good point. I'm not sure this ever had to do with revenue. I always thought this had less to do with getting more money for HD and more to do with getting people to try out the new channels and programs being offered with the SuperFan package.

Unfortunately I think the idea of using this as a way of increasing value in the Superfan package backfired on them. I'm no marketing genious but I think the smarter thing to have done would be to give the package away for the first week or two and then ask for us to pay to keep receiving it for the other 14 weeks.

GRN
06-03-2005, 06:07 PM
FAQ on DirecTV's website:

Q: Are the NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ Red Zone Channel, NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ Game Mix and NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ Short Cuts available in HD?
A: No, these features are available in standard-definition only.

GRN
06-03-2005, 06:10 PM
90% of NFL ST subs will be evaluating Superfan based on the new extra features. Pulling out HD games and putting them back into the base package won't devalue Superfan in the slightest for those 90%.Bravo, CPanther95. Excellent point. Nice to see someone else who hasn't taken a swig of the DirecTV Kool-Aid. :D

borromini
06-03-2005, 06:44 PM
...What will come first, everything HD all the time, or the Chiefs win the Super Bowl..?
Everything HD all the time... :D Besides what would I know being a Vikings fan, I'm at the back of the line for that SB title. :(

GRN
06-03-2005, 06:55 PM
Everything HD all the time... :D Besides what would I know being a Vikings fan, I'm at the back of the line for that SB title. :(Don't worry, the Vikes will go to the Super Bowl this year. Mike Tice will make sure to get tickets for all of them! :D :D :D

treky11
06-03-2005, 08:05 PM
Anyone else see this on their website. It say BOTH ST and Superfan get the games in HD.

"This NFL season, see the big plays, bone-rattling hits and goal-line stands in stunningly clear picture and sound.

With NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ and NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ SuperFan only from DIRECTV, you'll get over 100 NFL games in high-definition.*

That's over 100 games in sharp detail, bright color and crisp sound"

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/nflhd.html

Smthkd
06-03-2005, 08:32 PM
Anyone else see this on their website. It say BOTH ST and Superfan get the games in HD.

"This NFL season, see the big plays, bone-rattling hits and goal-line stands in stunningly clear picture and sound.

With NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ and NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ SuperFan only from DIRECTV, you'll get over 100 NFL games in high-definition.*

That's over 100 games in sharp detail, bright color and crisp sound"

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/nflhd.html


That "and" in this case means in addition to. In other word you must sub to both in order to get the HD versions of the game. They will "not" separate the two! Without the SuperFan package you will not get the games in HD. and you cannot get the SuperFan pack without the NFLST subscription....

KnickFanatic
06-04-2005, 03:10 PM
That "and" in this case means in addition to. In other word you must sub to both in order to get the HD versions of the game. They will "not" separate the two! Without the SuperFan package you will not get the games in HD. and you cannot get the SuperFan pack without the NFLST subscription....


True that Smthkd...
Just got this NFL Sunday Ticket promo from D** regarding the automatic renewal and here is what they say regarding HD at the bottom of the second page...
"High-definition games are available only in the NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan package."
I'm about to call these guys right now cause the last csr I talked to assured me that I would get HD games with just the Sunday Ticket as long as I have the HD package...they just straight lied to me! :mad:

KnickFanatic
06-04-2005, 03:32 PM
Well I just got off the phone with another CSR from D** and this one again reinforced that I do not have to have the SuperFan pack to get HD Sunday Ticket games. That's 3 CSR's fro me that reinforced the fact that I don't need to have the SuperFan pack to enjoy the HD games with Sunday Ticket.
I think this will end up being a game time answer before we really know what's going on with this stuff. :confused:

donavanb
06-04-2005, 06:10 PM
Same thing happened to me so last time I talked to a CSR I asked that he send me an email confirming that my order of Sunday Ticket includes HD games. He put me on hold and then came back and said he had no way to email me. So I asked for a manager, when the manager got on the phone she told me that HD games came only with the Superfan plan and said she would have a talk with the CSR to straighten him out.

Of course then I complained that I thought it was wrong of them and she gave me the "It cost more money to NFL to broadcast in HD and therefore it cost more to offer it to us". I said that was bullcrap, because the NFL was going to spend that money to broadcast it in HD for networks CBS and FOX regardless to whether DirecTV carried it or not.

I think the are telling customers that it is included on purpose so that way months from now in Sept. when we discover that it is not then to late we have already paid for the Sunday Ticket and no proof that we were told the wrong thing and that their website clearly states that you have to buy Superfan. JMHO

I cancelled my Sunday Ticket and my High Def and sports pack, to me the limited HD channels are not worth it. I love NFL but cannot justify the increasing expense. I know some say stop whining, I do not look at it that way, It is simple supply and demand, at the current price I do not demand it, If DTV gets enough demand at this price for it to be worth it then that is the way business works so be it, just isn't going to include me just as buying a BMW is not for me. At some point every person has to say too expensive unless your Bill Gates.

GRN
06-04-2005, 09:46 PM
...they just straight lied to me! :mad:

I don't think they lied to you. Intentionally, anyway. They're just morons. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

CatManDoo
06-05-2005, 03:12 AM
Thats right it will cost $219 for NFL ST for all the SD broadcast but an ADDITIONAL $99 for the HD Games for a Grand total of $318!! http://www./voice/images/smilies/thumbdown.gif
See link:
http://finance.yahoo.com/mp#dtv

I don't know what the record is for # of Views on a single thread, but this one you started has got to be up there. At last count, I saw 8,716 Views and 138 Posts as of Sunday, June 5th. Whether it was intentional or not, you sure stirred up a hornet's nest. :bowdown:

p.s. Opening day is just 3 months away!!! :yippee: :yippee:

Spicy Mikey
06-05-2005, 07:42 AM
Interesting that some guys are being told the HD is included with the ST package. I decided to call D* again myself this weekend and they definitely seem to have changed their story. There seems to be some movement here with their positioin on the HD games. The CS rep also told me (in no uncertain terms) that the HD games will be available with the regular ST package. When I told him that's NOT what the website said or previous CS reps, he said it was "a misunderstanding" with the verbage in their advertising. I didn't ask that he send me an email but I did ask that he document this call and his statement in my account.

Obviously, he's not being fully truthful. However, I have no problem with them trying to save face as long as they do the smart and fair thing by providing the higher quality picture with no upcharge over the ST price.

Maybe we're actually seeing a shift in position as a result of customer outrage. I'd like to think this site had something to do with it, but the truth is (like we discussed earlier) we're just a small representation of a huge subscription base for NFL-ST. I'm sure the uproar over this pricing change was occuring nationwide with ALL customers as they found out about the proposed changes from the recent mailing D* sent everyone.

jpnuzzo
06-05-2005, 07:56 AM
Obviously, he's not being fully truthful. However, I have no problem with them trying to save face as long as they do the smart and fair thing by providing the higher quality picture with no upcharge over the ST price.

It's possible he simply slept through the meeting where they laid-out the new pricing, and didn't know what he's talking about.

Spicy Mikey
06-05-2005, 08:18 AM
It's possible, but seems more and more unlikely since others are starting to hear the same NEW story. I'd be curious if others (who had called in the past) try calling back and see if the story is changing for them as well.

This guy I spoke to didn't seem "confused" like others I spoke with in the past. He knew the exact issue and gave me a quick, definitive answer. Last month (when this all broke) it seemed like most of the CS reps didn't seem to know what people were talking about when asked about the SuperFan package. They had to put folks on hold to get the answer. This guy seemed to know exactly what the issue was and spit out answers.

CatManDoo
06-05-2005, 11:10 AM
Maybe we're actually seeing a shift in position as a result of customer outrage. I'd like to think this site had something to do with it, but the truth is (like we discussed earlier) we're just a small representation of a huge subscription base for NFL-ST. I'm sure the uproar over this pricing change was occuring nationwide with ALL customers as they found out about the proposed changes from the recent mailing D* sent everyone.
I think this site had a lot to do with it. Yes, it's possible that you're just a "small representation", but the fury and outrage has been propelled into actions that have been combined into a groudswell group effort. Individually, each of you who took action may have done so knowing that you would not be alone. Years ago people might not have challenged this -- and some might possibly not have even realized what was going on until it was too late. But I believe this Forum has definitely centralized the effort, and that effort will soon pay off.

Previous prediction -- might come true? (http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost.php?p=43322&postcount=45)
If this were the 60's, I'd shout "Power to the People" and then break out in song with "United we stand, divided we fall" !

chrpai
06-05-2005, 12:51 PM
I just cancelled mine today also and the CSR indicated that he's received quite a few calls from upset people on this subject.

The thing that irks me is I can't get local HD channels from D* yet and where I live I can't get HD-OTA. So when I see the Texans playing on NFL in HD I switch over to it and it's blacked out. I'm not paying another $100 for that!!

I also hope that when D* starts adding the other birds we don't see 50% increases for features we already have or otherwise I'm going to be ending my 6 year relationship with D*.

hokejhra
06-05-2005, 01:39 PM
I tell you we have been nfl st subscribers since 1999 and not once we have complained about the price, we chose direct tv in 1999 because they were the only satelite company to show all the football games. I have to say that after reading that new superfan feature would be available my husband and I were very happy, I was not thrilled with the extra $99.00 but to watch hd games and to have the other extras in the package is worth it for us. You see both of us are avid fantasy football players, we live for sundays(this is coming from a woman by the way, I am a huge sport fanatic). Our remote control is our friend it is awesome to be able to click and see your players score. I think that direct tv knows that fantasy football is huge and those who play it make up incredible numbers, Direct tv's marketing efforts are to those people, they know that those people will buy those extras. We are thrilled with the extras and cannot wait for the season to start. If you only want to watch one team on sunday then the package is not for you. I also consider that being at home through the football season and enjoying the games in hd and paying what direct tv charges for the whole season is still drop in the bucket in comparison to season tickets with which you only see 1 game. I think direct tv is smart they know what their bread and butter is. So we will not complain and look forward to another great football year. GO COLTS!!!!

jonvig1
06-05-2005, 02:33 PM
I also have been a NFLST subscriber for seven years, every year the price goes up $10 - $20. Two weeks ago I see the renewal info commerical where Payton Manning, Barry Sanders, and a cast of idots are dancing around singing the praises of NFLST and the 100+ games in HD. I go to the website and see this SuperFan BS!!

I call DTV to get the scoop and they feed me the same line the rest of you have gotten. $219 for NFLST & $99 for Superfan, NO WAY!!

I told the rep after seven years of being a customer, spending $1,000 + on hardware and paying $10.99 per month for the JOKE of a HD package that they are selling they expected my to pay the additional $99 for SuperFan? After she put me on-hold for ten minutes, she comes back and says, Yes, I am correct. I told her to cancel my NFLST, I could buy a season ticket and go into Ford Field and see the game in person for the ransom that they are charging!

To top this off, the bimbo did not even process my cancellation. I had to call back again and tell them to cancel.

Horrible Customer Service!
Horrible HD Selection!
Must be nice to have a monopoly!

CPanther95
06-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Is there a reason every time I post in this thread, it is deleted?

kybuc
06-05-2005, 05:45 PM
I will not be renewing my Sunday Ticket this year. I bit the bullet this spring and purchased a HDTV and the directv receiver. I was looking forward to Sunday ticket in HD. But I'm not going to pay that price for the luxury.

hokejhra
06-05-2005, 05:54 PM
direct tv is all about businees, I personally have never had a bad experience. I have been always very satisfied, directv tv is fast to act if there is a problem and most of csr's seem to knowledgable. But it is a big company and I am sure there are some bad employees, I guess I was always lucky to not have to talk to them. as far as i can remember this is the first real increase in nfl st and it is not $219 for the people that automaticaly renew the price is $199 instead of $179. we personally would never change to cable my experience with comcast has been horrible from terrible customer service to withdrawing money from my account when they are not supposed to and instead of giving me my money back and apologizing I had to make numerous phone calls to fix the problem, we only have high speed internet with comcast so if you want to talk about monopoly cable companies have it, thank god for satelite companies like direct tv, since 1999 direct tv has only increased their price once for their regular programing. I wish there was more hd programming especially in sports there is nothing like sporting event in hd and that alone is worth the money I mean we all paid a hefty price for our big screen lcd's dlp's or plasmas and hd equipment. What is an additional $99 a season for football games in hd? One of these days everything will be in hd and I believe prices will level somewhat, the technology and programming is still pretty new.

DataQ
06-05-2005, 06:18 PM
Okay, I went back to page 1 of this thread, read it all; as a 10-year subscriber to ST, an 11-year sub to D* (yes, virginia, I bought a setup BEFORE national rollout (was in Indianapolis on business), took it back home to Dallas where there were there were lots of oohs and ahhs, waited a year (traveled too much) to get ST. Bought HD in 2001, both new set and D* reciever/dish.

First of all, up until last season the networks (in this case FOX and CBS) topped out at some 50% of games in HD, usually less than that, maybe 25% on a 'bad' Sunday. Local broadcast was about the same ratio, of the 3-4 games on a given Sunday, one would be lucky to have 2, possibly only 1, in HD. BTW, both affiliates have been on HD for well over 3 years now (Seattle, WA.), and even though their transmit power isn't up to their 'stated goal' yet (get going, HD RF manufacturers!), the signal some 60 miles away comes in like gangbusters, with a small outdoor antenna.

But in the 2005-6 Season, that percentage may well be up to 75%; in reading the crud on the D* website, they say 'over 100 games' but that figures out to some 6 perweek, and that was about what we got last year. Both Networks (I'm not including ESPN or ABC) have spent a ton to increase the number of portable facilities, and the number will probably be double what it was last year.

One can wait, though, and see. The 'deal' on the 'superfan' is good until 1 JAN 2006, according to the web site, so again, you can wait and see if the deal 'may' be worth it. In looking at the HD 'potential' schedule posted by the networks, HD games perweek will be at least 8+ per, or virtually half all the games. Now, look at this from D*'s standpoint. Every two games gobbles up one transponder, so that's at least 4 full conus beam transponders (out of the 26 or so available, don't forget all those 'local' spotbeams), so that's a huge amount to move things around for, in the 'pre-Ka' 'pre-MPEG4' world that for now, D* has to live in.

Everyone has to make an individual decision. For me, I decided more that a year ago to discontinue my movie channels UNTIL all the available HD versions (3-4 HBO's, 3-4 Showtime's, all the advertiser based HD stuff like TBS/TNT and you name it) are available, like they are on C-Band or Comcast. Look at what's happening with baseball this year. Lots of FSN's are doing HD, you can see them on the 'guide' but can't watch them unless they are your 'local' network. YES (Yankees) already has a full-time HD channel on D*, probably because people in NY have too much money anyway (but those gas prices are BRUTAL).

So, milage varies. If (still maybe a BIG IF) there are twice (or more) games in HD than last year, then it starts making some sense. HD cable is just about triple the cost of SD here (thanks, comcast) so I'll stay with D* and wait for the new sats this fall. I already get all but one 'local' HD by cheap antenna (our second PBS affil. about 70 miles away).

But again, from a marketing standpoint, they're talking about 5% of the ST folks. As they transition to Ka/Mpeg4 (a least partly done in 2006), then things will calm down a bit.

GRN
06-05-2005, 09:37 PM
Our remote control is our friend

Don't let him near the beer. Remote controls love beer! :D :D :D

GRN
06-05-2005, 09:38 PM
Is there a reason every time I post in this thread, it is deleted?What's up with THAT? You post some of the best and most thought-provoking stuff on AVS. I hope one of the mods isn't a DirecTV shareholder! :D

Traak
06-06-2005, 04:59 AM
OMG!!

There are a couple more that sees it the way I do!! :yippee: :yippee: and to think I was pulling stuff from my rear end about the fantasy football people...

cinzano
06-06-2005, 10:01 AM
http://www.tvweek.com/article.cms?articleId=28253


HD Tax Exempt?

By James Hibberd

In the wake of last week's story about NFL fans in revolt over DirecTV's plan to charge an extra $99 to view Sunday Ticket games in high definition (TelevisionWeek, May 30), some subscribers said the satellite provider is calling a timeout.

DirecTV is now waiving the $99 "HD Tax" for longtime customers who threaten to cancel the package, sources said. Also, some customers said the company-which said the decision to hike the Sunday Ticket fees was its call-is passing the blame for the surcharge to the NFL, telling complaining customers the football league is requiring the $99 to cover the cost of the programming.

A DirecTV spokesperson confirmed some customers are being offered a waiver on a case-by-case basis, but said incidents of service representatives blaming their Sunday Ticket partner were isolated instances involving representatives who are misinformed.

Spicy Mikey
06-06-2005, 10:17 AM
It seems the only thing worse then DirecTV’s decision to try charging for a higher picture quality is their subsequent handling of all this uproar. What a mess. Someone over at DirecTV should get fired over this one.

I hope they learned a lesson from all this and will start treating higher video and audio quality as a FEATURE not a SERVICE. If they don't, someone else will.

Hey Jim from TV-Week: Thanks for keeping them honest.

GRN
06-06-2005, 12:00 PM
"Isolated instances involving representatives who are misinformed"? I'm sure. Didn't someone on here post that a person from the retention department blamed the NFL? I doubt that he was a mere customer service rep.

I remember when I was a peon attached to a phone doing customer service. You weren't allowed free thinking, since you ran the risk of getting the tape of your call pulled and listened to by higher-ups in the company. Some supervisor at DirecTV probably got tired about hearing complaints for the $99 that he told the CSR's to blame it on the NFL. Can't be too surprised it came back to bite them in the buttocks.

chrpai
06-06-2005, 12:13 PM
Is there an upside here though? Can you order the superfan without the regular package? The web site seemed to let me do it if I kept clicking next.

Perhaps if your only half-addicted to NFL and you only want HD games this would be a way to save 50% off.

GRN
06-06-2005, 12:18 PM
You cannot order Superfan without ordering the regular ST package.

If you think it through, you'll understand why. :rolleyes:

drwfan
06-06-2005, 02:44 PM
I wish I could speak to the CSR that is helping all of the "long time" people out. I have been a sub since 1999 and must still be considered a noob to D*. Below is a copy of the email that I received from them today and note, no offer to waive the tax.

Dear DRWfan,

Thanks for asking us about NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan, our new optional NFL premium service. I understand your concerns about its $99.00 price, especially since we were able to provide some HD games last year as a free bonus to NFL subscribers with HD equipment.

High definition programming is some of the most expensive that we carry due to what we pay to distribute it and the bandwidth we use to deliver it. This is why we can no longer offer these HD games for free and have created this new package. NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan not only delivers more than 100 high definition NFL games, it also delivers the most innovative television experience NFL SUNDAY TICKET has to offer though these three new features:

• NFL SUNDAY TICKET Red Zone Channel - The best plays from games in action, all on one channel.
• NFL SUNDAY TICKET Game Mix - Watch up to 8 games at once on a single TV screen.
• NFL SUNDAY TICKET Short Cuts - Commercial-free games showing every play in 30 minutes or less on Channels 701-704.

Visit our web site at directvsports.com/Subscriptions/NFLSundayTicket/SuperFan/ for more information on NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan including blackout rules and programming requirements.

If you still wish to disconnect your NFL Sunday Ticket, please write back and confirm your request. Please remember that if we disconnect the NFL Sunday Ticket package from your account, you may not be able to add it on at the discounted Auto-renewal price you will currently receive.

Thanks again for writing and we look forward to continuing to bring you the latest innovations in television and sports entertainment.

Sincerely,

Tanya
DIRECTV Customer Service

DRWfan :mad:

chrpai
06-06-2005, 02:51 PM
You cannot order Superfan without ordering the regular ST package.

If you think it through, you'll understand why. :rolleyes:

Do I look stupid?

I just know that on the My DirecTV website when I still had sunday ticket, a popup appeared when I tried to unclick it. After I called in to have it cancelled I noticed it was cleared. I clicked Superfan and it selected without a popup. I clicked next and it showed me an order summary screen without any error messages. Needless to say I didn't attempt to finalize the order. :)

jpnuzzo
06-06-2005, 04:09 PM
I wish I could speak to the CSR that is helping all of the "long time" people out. I have been a sub since 1999 and must still be considered a noob to D*. Below is a copy of the email that I received from them today and note, no offer to waive the tax.
DRWfan :mad:

They sent me the same response on May 27, only substituting my name for yours; and Travis instead of Tanya.

hokejhra
06-06-2005, 06:34 PM
after reading all the posts about people getting some credit on the superfan feature i decided to call too and got them to credit me $50.00, we were not complaining and willing to pay the $99.00 charge but i thought that i might call and see what they would do for me, i guess we are not good for the whole credit we have had nfl st for 5 years so maybe the 10 year customers get the whole credit. something is better then nothing. I have to say that I still love dtv and would not change to cable or any other satelite provider. my feelings might change over time but for now i am happy with dtv.

DataQ
06-06-2005, 09:12 PM
It just kinda dawned on me (okay, I'm slow, this retiring at age 51 has kinda left me befuddled) but the only way I found out about this was checking Skyreport a few days ago.

There is no 'barker' channel telling folks about the change, there's nothing in the month mailing even those on CC pay get (or any 'special' mailing), no piece of the puzzle 'in the loop' on any advertising I've see/looked at. The only people who know are the folks who either are here regularly (I wasn't until I got pointed to it by Skyreport), or found out the same way I did. Most people/subs I think don't do that, I do simply because I've been a Satcom Engineer now and again through 30+ years of working in the telecom industry.

I think as soon as the 'word' gets out, things will heat up substantially. I'm sure that a large percentage will, if they don't make revisions to the 'barker' channels, find on on the first Sunday. Then, I wouldn't want to be near a CSR station as the phone system will melt down.

FYI the ST 'barker' channel on my recievers (the "Order Sunday Ticket Here") simply says "You are authorized for this program". There is no video loop (like in recent years). Nothing on the "DIRECTV Sports Schedule" or any other 'barker' channel, including the "ORDER Sport Subscription" channel, which simply says "get ALL the NFL games (sans blackouts)!".

It's stealth programming. Right up there with Comcast (crud) and other cable outlets.

Spicy Mikey
06-07-2005, 07:06 AM
God, as I read these posts it seems like everyone that calls get's a different story from the CS reps. In all my years I've truly never seen anything like this one. They should be ashamed of how they've handled this.

I agree with those who say D* is still better then cable. However, that's not saying much. Is this the beginning of D* going the way of cable? Could be. I have this sick feeling that this incident is a reflection of how the new ownership will operate going forward. I'm expecting more of this in the future now.

Their advertising has increased ten fold in the last 8 months. That's never a good sign. To me, it means they are more interested in selling the product then letting the product sell itself. Their commercials are all full of half truths and hype. The're ads are starting to sound like infomercials -- and we all know what infomercials sell -- crap.

Regardless of what happens; I'm not looking at DirecTV as a step above the rest anymore and preparing for more bad things in the near future.

jonvig1
06-07-2005, 08:20 AM
Spicy Mickey -

Thinking about your post, I could not agree more and that scares the SH** out of me.

D* customer service is getting worse and worse as thier advertising goes up-and-up. If this this is an omen of things to come, we are all in DEEEEEP trouble.

Great post Mikey!! :yippee: Damn, I hate thinking this early in the morning.

CPanther95
06-07-2005, 05:43 PM
Superfan reduced to $49 for existing NFL ST subscribers.

http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?t=547379

Traak
06-07-2005, 05:49 PM
This almost seems like DTV hired the same people who set gas prices :)..charge the price they know people will hate and then back it down a bit to make them happy. Remember, alot of people here hated to pay ANYTHING for the "free" signal but now could be satisfied with the $49..just like gas prices.

Spicy Mikey
06-08-2005, 07:23 AM
I agree with you Traak, many might just "go for it" in order to get the HD. It's disappointing because it shows D* is still trying to stick to their main objective of holding HD hostage in order to force customers to buy the less desirable extra channels and services that the SuperFan package offers. It's manipulative and it's hurting their reputation with many of their customers.

There's been so many opinions on this tread about this issue, but, it's obvious that the vast majority of customers are sending a message to DirecTV (and all the rebroadcasters). The message is: "we're not willing to pay extra solely for higher PQ". That's not to say we don't understands the extra cost of providing an HD feed. Everyone's well aware of the economics of this situation. However, it's time to design a different business model that treats HD as a "feature" and not an extra "service".

There's one thing to be encouraged about with this $49 change. Customers are voting with their pockets and it's put pressure on D* to "rethink TV" again. It shows that the opinions shared on this board are common and that they are out of step with their customers.

Spicy Mikey
06-08-2005, 01:24 PM
By the way, I just called D* and played dumb about this new SuperFan feature. I asked them if it's true I don't get HD anymore with the standard Sunday Ticket package. She told me its true and I need to pay $99 extra to get the HD. I gave her my feedback on why I don't expect to pay for PQ but didn't harass her or ask for any concessions. She didn't offer any either.

So much for a "pricing change". It must be simply a PR story for consumption by folks on these bulletin boards to cool down the chatter. They didn't change anything with the package.

They're trying to play us for fools. I don't like being manipulated and I doubt most others do either. How can they think this tactic is helping things? Not very bright.

drwfan
06-08-2005, 05:42 PM
Has anybody else received their penalty flag from D*? I received mine today with an ad for NFLST and of course the tax plan. On the flag it has their little saying "rethink tv". Believe me, I am!

DRWfan :hithere:

RX8
06-08-2005, 05:49 PM
A nice 1 NFL season boycott could do wonders. I am putting my actions where my mouth is.

donavanb
06-09-2005, 07:42 AM
I have also, I have cancelled Sunday Ticket and told them why. I also called back and cancelled my HD package and again told them why (that I was subscribing to that becuase I thought that was what was getting me the HD games last year and that the other 5 or so chan. are not worth it) I doubt it make a difference but I have to make a stand somewhere.

BeerMan
06-09-2005, 01:46 PM
While I agree that the new charges suck, those of you who have cancelled ST must not be true football fans. I practically LIVE for the NFL, and I can't imagine not being able to watch the Steelers every Sunday. My butt is planted on my couch for 11 or 12 straight hours every Sunday. Give me a 12-pack of beer, my laptop to keep up with my fantasy teams, and the Steelers in HD, and I'm in heaven. :)

Spicy Mikey
06-09-2005, 02:01 PM
Good point. I wonder how many people subscribe to the ST because they enjoy football but don't necessarily live for it each Sunday. if there's a lot of those people, then DirecTV may loose big time from pushing people too far.

Personally, I live for watching my Giants each Sunday and wouldn't cancel the ST since I'm in Florida and can't get the games any other way. However, I wouldn't subscribe to this Superfan BS. I don't need HD to enjoy my Giants. I could watch the game on a 9inch black and white tv if I had too. Don't get me wrong, HD makes ANYTHING better, but it's not critical to enjoy footbal.

Overall, I think this Superfan package is going to be a big flop for DirecTV. They may be committed to it this year but I doubt they'll package it this way again. They need to fire their marketing guys :)

RX8
06-09-2005, 02:43 PM
A huge football fan but everyone has limits. What is yours? You say you would never cancel. So no matter what they came up with you would buy into it? They love those type of customers. Customers that need them more then they need the customer has gotten us to the overpriced concessions, game tickets,parking, exhorbent salaries etc. etc.

BeerMan
06-09-2005, 02:54 PM
As long as I can afford to buy ST and still pay my bills, I will continue to purchase it. You go ahead and make your political statement. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying my Steelers games in HD and Dolby Digital 5.1. ;)

besz28
06-09-2005, 03:39 PM
As long as I can afford to buy ST and still pay my bills, I will continue to purchase it. You go ahead and make your political statement. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying my Steelers games in HD and Dolby Digital 5.1. ;)
me too and i will also watch my beloved steelers win the superbowl. here we go steelers......here we go :yippee:

Spicy Mikey
06-09-2005, 03:55 PM
I agree with you Beerman, no need for people to "cut off their nose to spite their face", as they say. If you really want HD and think it's fair then go for it. There's so many thousands of ST fans that it would be impossible to organize an effective "boycott" anyway. Most ST fans don't even have internet access much less know about these boards.

But don't forget BeerMan, there's no guarantee the game will be in HD. It's just like last year, a little less then half the games in HD. If you're getting the ST package only for Steeler games then you might be paying the $99 extra for nothing. That's another reason I'm not personally going for it. It's not a protest on my part. I just don't think its worth it. I got a feeling most will think the same and take a pass on this stupid Superfan pack.

As far as DD 5.1; unless Cowher plans to break into song on the sidelines, I don't think DD would do you much good. Seriously, do the games even get broadcasted in DD 5.1? I never took notice last year? I can't imagine it

BeerMan
06-09-2005, 04:09 PM
I think I got to watch at least half of the Steelers games last year in HD. Plus, I flip a lot during commercials to other games.

As for DD 5.1, yes they are broadcast in 5.1 (I think only the HD channels output the DD signal). You get a few crowd noises from the rear speakers, but it's not a huge benefit.

RX8
06-09-2005, 05:19 PM
As long as I can afford to buy ST and still pay my bills, I will continue to purchase it. You go ahead and make your political statement. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying my Steelers games in HD and Dolby Digital 5.1. ;)


Its far from a political statement but DirectTV and the Steelers who don't know you from Adam appreciate the at any cost attitude. It affords them the big houses and cars. I love football as much as anyone but the product is diminishing while the price is increasing. They count on people like you to not make issue with that.

Fl_Gulfer
06-09-2005, 07:36 PM
I see they lower it to 49 bucks for the people that had ST last year.

Traak
06-09-2005, 08:44 PM
Wow!! this thread is going on forever!! LOL..anyways, from the beginning, I think DTV has the right to do what they want and I still think they will gain more DTV viewers ( customers that DO NOT have DTV) with this new Superfan package because they want to get their hands on the Fantasy Football players money. Guys, I tell you, I've seen it..Fantasy Football is one of the fastest growing markets..MILLIONS of people play it and most of them are SUPER ADDICTS for stats..DTV could care LESS about people like Spicy and a few others that will not buy it cause it costs more..TRUST ME..They are going to gain thousands of these DIE HARDS..If you were a STATs guy..seeing multiple games on one channel? WOW..seeing highlights..WOW..I mean come on..THIS STUFF ROCKS..if you are into that. I'm not but I know many that are.

Beer was right also. Why go to BW3s and drink and spend money when you can have friends over, drink more beer for less, get REAL TIME stats, watch MULTIPLE games on one channel..FOR LESS THEN GOING OUT TO WATCH IT ON AN OLD ANALOG CHOPPY BIG SCREEN..

Oh yea..Im a HUGE Browns fan..should finally give you some good games this year. Always looking forward to the Steelers games..

And one other thing that I posted earlier as well, not only will DTV get many more regular DTV subscribers so the STAT Junkies can get their high for Sundays, but now that Gambling is getting more and more legal all over the US..more and more gamblers will be buying the Superfan to help with their addiction. I've seen so many people who bet on football in bars beg to see whats going on with other games and can't wait for ESPN or whatever..Just imagine the potential number of gamblers and BOOKIES who will be getting this Superfan package..more than you think.

I think who ever is the Marketing people will be rich after this. Its amazing..not because they are charging more for HD for CURRENT Subscribers but because they will get millions in sales from JUNKIES :)

Have a good one :)

Maybe there should be a protest forum? Have all the ones who hate it post..can we do a poll on these boards? Would be cool to see how others feel other than the normal posters on this thread..

hokejhra
06-09-2005, 08:56 PM
traak
you are correct about the fantasy football junkies, me and my husband are one of them, my husband has played forever he started one of the leagues when fantasy football was nothing and used to take stats from paper every monday the technology for fantasy football is incredible now and so is the number of people that play, i can't tell you how excited we are about our drafts and the hd football and superfan features we will get to use. we have been st holders since 99 but we just bought our 50"sony wega lcd hdtv this past december and upgraded to hd at the same time, i have to say after watching the first football game in hd we were hooked there is no turning back, i cannot wait for hockey to return i am a huge fan it will be awesome. but like i said before any sporting event is the bomb in hd and we are willing to pay withing reason for the picture GO COLTS!!

besz28
06-10-2005, 10:47 AM
Its far from a political statement but DirectTV and the Steelers who don't know you from Adam appreciate the at any cost attitude. It affords them the big houses and cars. I love football as much as anyone but the product is diminishing while the price is increasing. They count on people like you to not make issue with that.
that is such a broad statement and you watch movies to help support the actors 20 million per movie it goes on and on. we love football and to be honest with you i would pay 500 dollars for sunday ticket. when they raised cigarrettes prices people continued to smoke. everything rises in cost look at gas do you stop driving now????it is just a matter of what you love

steve51wv
06-10-2005, 11:28 AM
amen to that, totally agree....

mikejlan
06-10-2005, 07:08 PM
I just found out today about this superfan business. I have had sunday ticket since it was available which was in the middle of 1994.Then it was 100 dollars per season. NFL was the only reason i switched to dtv. I paid 900 bucks for 1 dish and 1 receiver. Anyway, I recently bought the samsung 50 inch DLP tv and paid 300 dollars for a hd receiver. DTV offers CRAP in HD. I bought an indoor antenna to receive local HDTV broadcasts and the picture looks like a 20 year old set with only rabbit ears. Could any of you guys (or girls) give me advice on fixing this problem. FYI my HD receiver is the hughes hird-e8 and my antenna is the terk tv55. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I would be cool with an email or a reply here.
Thanks

hokejhra
06-10-2005, 08:01 PM
mikejlan
i am not sure about the indoor antena, we have an off air antenna that was provided to us by dtv so we could receive our local channels in hd, it is mounted on our roof, i know with our locals like cbs is 4 but the cbs hd is 4-1, did you buy the hardware through dtv? when we updated to hd i called them and they told me what all i needed and got us a deal and they sent someone to install it all. i would say your best bet is to call the hd tech support at dtv they should be able to help you.

Fl_Gulfer
06-10-2005, 08:28 PM
Well Mike we don't know the distance from your house to the stations, and those indoor antennas arn't the greatest. You need to go to http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and see what the distance and direction of the stations are. And give us a little more info.

mikejlan
06-11-2005, 12:01 PM
I called directv today. They are sending out a contractor monday to install a h-10 receiver and an outdoor off air antenna. Does anybody else have this setup or similar. If so, what does the antenna look like. My roof is tiled, is this a problem? Thank you for your replies.

CatManDoo
06-11-2005, 12:45 PM
I think I got to watch at least half of the Steelers games last year in HD. Plus, I flip a lot during commercials to other games.

As for DD 5.1, yes they are broadcast in 5.1 (I think only the HD channels output the DD signal). You get a few crowd noises from the rear speakers, but it's not a huge benefit.

Couple of things:

First, where are you at? I assume you are not in the Steelers market area that you can get them OTA or on Cable. I'm in Lancaster County, PA and every year there is a HUGE battle (I mean HUGE!!) between the rabid Steelers fans and the NFL. Actually, the fans beat up on the local CBS affiliate (WHP-21 in Harrisburg, PA) even though they are not at fault. Basically, this area has had tons of hard core Steeler fans for decades. But when the Ravens came to Baltimore, the NFL decided that CBS could no longer show Steeler games instead of the Ravens whenever there was a conflict of starting times. :crying: Fortunately, it only happens a few times a year, but when it does --- LOOK OUT! :eek: And no amount of campaigning, petitions, or polls can make the NFL decide otherwise. This was designated a Ravens primary market and that's that! Period. :banghead: But when they are on CBS WHP-21, they are usually in Hi-Def. I say "usually" because CBS doesn't carry all of their games in HD. Whereas FOX carried almost all (if not ALL) of their games in HD, especially the Eagles. :banana:

Which brings me to part 2 of my reply. With regard to DD 5.1 , last year I had a party for the [email protected] game. As you may recall, Pittsburgh and Big Ben taught the Birds a thing or two about football (game over in 1st qtr). But I remember one point when a fan got too close to a microphone at Heinz Field and whistled into the mic which came through the right rear channel. Everyone in the room was startled and turned around thinking "who did that?". We all thought it was someone else at the party. :what: Really freaked us out. I don't think DD 5.1 is appreciated much yet because it is under utilized. But when it is, I personally find it makes a big difference. Not quite as big a difference as going from analog to HD, but almost.

p.s. Remember, just 3 months 'til kickoff! :yippee:

wase4711
06-13-2005, 01:14 PM
Long live former Voomers!!!

and I agree; with VOOM gone, both Direct Tv and Dish Net will turn the screws on the small HD marketplace...

hitdog042
06-14-2005, 09:02 PM
That has nothing to do with the NFL 99.00 charge. DirecTV has an exclusive agreement with the NFL and no other cable or satellite company can do the NFL package, VOOM and DISH included.

I think everyone is losing it a bit. Look, for DTV to get 125 games in HD, that costs them money. 319.00 for the NFL season is not bad. It all depends on how big of a fan you are and how many games you want to watch.

If you live in your teams' market, don't get it. If you are like me and watch any games you can, 319 is not only well worth it, I will pay it without blinking an eye.

Consider the average NFL ticket is 47.00 to see a game live.

I guess everyone wants something for free. Realize no other company has the money to offer the NFL a better deal than DTV.. as soon as you realize how capitalism works, you will understand why it's 319.

Smthkd
06-14-2005, 09:37 PM
That has nothing to do with the NFL 99.00 charge. DirecTV has an exclusive agreement with the NFL and no other cable or satellite company can do the NFL package, VOOM and DISH included.

I think everyone is losing it a bit. Look, for DTV to get 125 games in HD, that costs them money. 319.00 for the NFL season is not bad. It all depends on how big of a fan you are and how many games you want to watch.

If you live in your teams' market, don't get it. If you are like me and watch any games you can, 319 is not only well worth it, I will pay it without blinking an eye.

Consider the average NFL ticket is 47.00 to see a game live.

I guess everyone wants something for free. Realize no other company has the money to offer the NFL a better deal than DTV.. as soon as you realize how capitalism works, you will understand why it's 319.
I think you have it all wrong! No one here is complaining about the NFLST itself, many of us have had it for many years, what we do have a problem with is the fact that HD from D* is all ready scarce. Many promises have been made, few have been kept. Last year D* provided the HD games as part of the Sunday Ticket, but to turn around the next year and charge $20 more for the ST plus another $99 (recently changed $49 for Renewals) is insane! We dont want anything for free (pun) we just dont want to pay "extra" for something that was free last year and should be included in the subscription anyway!:mad:

high5in
06-14-2005, 10:05 PM
Well I finally finished reading through all the post. Got my DTV penalty flag and notice today about the "HD tax".

Just to add my 2 cents here....the real problem was DTV giving the HD channels as part of the NFLST package in the first place. They should have offered the HD games initially at a set price. Because what I feel most people here failed to understand is that it was part of a package....and now it's gone. A price increase is different. This is flat out gone. That's my beef. DTV had giveth, now DTV hath takest away.

I understand I can pay extra to get them...but I didn't have to in the past. Why should I now? DTV realized they could be getting money for HD games and created the Superfan package with the HD games lumped in there. I for one won't drop DTV yet, nor cancel my NFLST package. But I'm not going to pay extra money for games that may not include my favorite team. I rather put that money towards a live game.

Spicy Mikey
06-15-2005, 04:01 AM
I agree with SmthKD. HitDog is missing the main point and is being a bit condescending. I think we all understand how business works. We're not stupid. I take offense a bit to his accusation that we don't understand capitalism. I'm in my mid 40's, a successful business man, and make well into the 6 figures. I understand how business works (as I'm sure most people on this board).

For the majority of us, I don't think this is an issue of affordability. There's anger here over a new policy where DirecTV is now charging solely for picture quality rather then content. Up until now, this is something they have not done. It angers people and also concerns them. What happens next year when they start adding HD locals? Does the local package go up 300%? What happens as more and more channels start broadcasting in HD and DirecTV starts switching over to them? Does the price continue to rise incrementally? I think we all realize the answer to that is "no". DirecTV realizes they ultimately cannot charge for quality because quality doesn't sell, price does. This is America! :) That's why Walmart is the number one retailer in America. That's why Toy's R Us continues to expand and FAO Shwartz (the#1 highend toy retailer) filed for bankruptcy last year.

The people on this board are extremely unusual (no offense). We have a passion for our entertaiment equipment and experience. However, we're not the average American on this subject. The majority of people will NOT pay extra for picture and/or audio quality. DirecTV knows they ultimately can't continue with this pricing model. They also know that this is the format for the future and they ultimately must provide it to ALL at a competitive price

Which brings us full circle back to what makes this thread one of the longest HDForum has ever had (and the ONLY reason I'm angry); This is all about taking advantage of a small segment of customers because they feel they have our attention and know we've already invested in their equipment. They know they have us by the short hairs right now and their taking advantage of it. I don't know about the rest of you folks, but I don't like being taken advantage of, and I never forget it. For now, I'll just stay with my SD Sunday ticket and wait patiently for my opportunity to repay the favor.;)

hitdog042
06-15-2005, 06:25 AM
After reading more posts, I understand your point and where you are coming from. Sorry if I sounded a little harsh.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that the amount of HD games on DTV is doubling this year from what I understand.

I will, however, agree that DTV does love to add fees for programming, as they've done it all the time.

Still, I personally don't have a problem paying the 99 dollars.

I don't understand the love for Voom though. Their HD channels, IMO, lack substance and are boring, but that is just me.

Traak
06-15-2005, 02:03 PM
Spicy, Spicy, Spicy..I LUV YOU MAN! :D

Bruno
06-15-2005, 02:13 PM
DirecTV knows they ultimately can't continue with this pricing model. They also know that this is the format for the future and they ultimately must provide it to ALL at a competitive price.

This is all about taking advantage of a small segment of customers because they feel they have our attention and know we've already invested in their equipment.

How is this different from what many other companies do? Don't you think the oil companies, when they raise gas prices, are aware of the large investment many of us have made in our automobiles? And how could you possibly know whether or not D*'s pricing model will work?

I just don't get it. Everyone has a choice as to whether or not they purchase the NFL HD package. If it's not worth the added cost to you then don't purchase it. It's as simple as that. I'll probably get it but I also recently canceled Starz and the HD Package.

I'm certainly not happy about paying the additional fee and If anyone deserves blame it's probably the NFL for not allowing other providers to carry the Sunday Ticket product. But ultimately it's all about our free market system and supply & demand.

Spicy Mikey
06-15-2005, 02:14 PM
I feel the love! :)

oblioman
06-15-2005, 04:24 PM
Anybody know why DirecTv is'nt publishing what football games will be in HD this fall? They publish the standard def programming but not HD games......perhaps it will be hit & miss.

hitdog042
06-15-2005, 04:29 PM
HD games will be decided on at the start of the season, as they were last year, and it will change depending on matchups and records.

They did the same thing last year.

I suppose you have a consipiracy theory on why DTV doesn't put it out in advance?

lmao.... this thread is ridiculous. I'm done.. see you all on some other topic.

hitdog042
06-15-2005, 04:32 PM
Well, I thought I was done.

Also - FOX and CBS ultimately decide what games will be on HD, not DirecTV. DirecTV has to wait for those networks to make their decision.

The Sunday night and Monday night games you can figure out.. all of them I believe are in HD.

Spicy Mikey
06-15-2005, 04:32 PM
I assume it's because the broadcasters aren't committing to it. I suspect they plan to move the limited number of camera's around to the matchups with the best potential viewership. As a result, if you're a Patriot's fan you're probably going to get most in HD. If you're a bottom feeder (like my Giants these days) prepare to sit close to the TV.

oblioman
06-15-2005, 04:41 PM
No hitdog,,no conspiracy theory,,just wondering. And since I'm a Vikes fan,,,,I know I won't get any in hi-def. Which brings up another question - if the team I support is marginal, both you and I know they won't be televised in Hi-Def, what incentive would I have to buy the "SuperFan" package?

Traak
06-15-2005, 07:47 PM
God I hope some Browns games are in HD but I don't blame the NFL if they dont. You know its bad here when fans are hoping for a 500 season :D

hitdog042
06-15-2005, 08:56 PM
This thread was merely about the amount of HD games DTV was offering this season.

I am not trying to encourage anyone to buy it. In fact, I really don't care who buys it and who doesn't. The package is for NFL enthusiasts with HD who don't care what games are on.

GRN
06-16-2005, 02:24 AM
This thread was merely about the amount of HD games DTV was offering this season.

Actually, this thread was about DirecTV charging $99 for Superfan. Somewhere along the line it got off topic.

Traak
06-16-2005, 05:12 AM
I'd say after 21 pages..yea..all the points have been made :)

Spicy Mikey
06-16-2005, 10:18 AM
Yep, we're beating a dead horse here. I made my last point on the original subject 5 pages ago. I guess this thread is so big and the title is such an attention grabber that it's starting to become a general NFL-ST thread!

I've tried a dozen times to stop participating on this thread but there's always one more post that get's my attention. Everytime I think I'm out, they keep pulling me back in! :) Sorry, I watched the GF last night for the 58th time. "Leave the gun, take the cannoli's". My favorite line.

GRN
06-16-2005, 01:29 PM
I'd say after 21 pages..yea..all the points have been made :)Agreed

donavanb
06-16-2005, 02:08 PM
I think we can get it to 25 pages, now let's rally and see if we can get'er done.

but back on topic. My main problem with the superfan package is that last year we got the HD games with the standard package, this year we have to pay $99 more, but what have they added over last year to justify that increase in price. The excuse that HD cost more is bogus, it doesn't cost anymore than last year does it, bandwith is the only thing we are talking about with DTV, because FOX and CBS are the ones picking up all the other costs. JMHO, I am not saying that anyone else should or should not buy it. I will do what I feel is best for me and everyone should do the same.

Now, I am sure we can get this thread to 25 pages before we quit on it.

:busy:

besz28
06-16-2005, 02:38 PM
Priced Reduced To 49.00

Traak
06-16-2005, 02:47 PM
Wow, you give someone a taste of something and now its supposed to be free...So when you play beta games and when the beta period is over, you want the retail game for free ?? same difference to me.

bigjdotcom01
06-16-2005, 08:56 PM
Wow, you give someone a taste of something and now its supposed to be free...So when you play beta games and when the beta period is over, you want the retail game for free ?? same difference to me.

Horrible analogy. We are paying for the ST. The networks are broadcasting certain out of market games in HD so we are supposed to get the out of market feeds of the game. If it is in HD, then we should get the HD broadcast. We were not getting a beta of HD last year. We were just getting what we paid for!

Traak
06-17-2005, 04:48 AM
The only mistake DTV has made was giving the HD games last year for free. So they decide to give more games in HD this year and charge for it makes them look bad..

oblioman
06-17-2005, 05:13 AM
But are they giving you more HD games? How many games were you able to watch last year in HD? Compare that to this years "hypothetical 100" or "150" (it's listed both ways on their web site- then reduce that number by 50 to take into account what will be broadcast for free and you will see that the "SuperFan" package is not what it's cracked up to be. In fact if ya pull the DTV blinders off, you will see what a ripoff it is. You are paying an extra $100 bucks to have a few different viewing angles + a boatload of stat charts on your screen reducing the view of the game. And if you look at DTV's small print - a lot of that extra content will not be in hi-def.

bigjdotcom01
06-17-2005, 05:16 AM
The problem is that they will not give an HD schedule and it is not definite that there will be more HD games. The games are also blacked out if they are shown locally. In my case (Rochester, NY) the CBS affiliate does not broadcast in HD so all the CBS games shown locally in HD will be blacked out in addition to all of the Bills games. This means that I could pay an additional $99 for less than half of the available games!

That is just unacceptable. If I am paying for the HD, I want to see all of the games. I realize that this is an NFL rule, but it still stings.

besz28
06-17-2005, 08:37 AM
i think it's a bargain. before direct tv i would have to go to a smoke filled bar, pray my game was on a decent tv near my table.pay 2 bucks a soda,couldn't hear a thing.totally uncomfortable 20-30 dollars every weekend. now i sit in my air conditioned house in my lazy boy recliner watch my game in 55inch awesome picture and sound and if it's in high def great....if not who cares? go for a nice swim in the pool at halftime. no comparison. i would pay 500 for the package. now for the casual fan no way would i pay this.but for hardcore football fans 300 dollars big deal.

oblioman
06-17-2005, 09:08 AM
i think it's a bargain. before direct tv i would have to go to a smoke filled bar, pray my game was on a decent tv near my table.pay 2 bucks a soda,couldn't hear a thing.totally uncomfortable 20-30 dollars every weekend. now i sit in my air conditioned house in my lazy boy recliner watch my game in 55inch awesome picture and sound and if it's in high def great....if not who cares? go for a nice swim in the pool at halftime. no comparison. i would pay 500 for the package. now for the casual fan no way would i pay this.but for hardcore football fans 300 dollars big deal.

:thumbsup: Now thats my kind of fan,,no stress,,cool breeze,,hawaiian shirt,,watching my Vikes lose,,I wish I had neighbors like you. But the jist of this forum is that a lot of ST users are more than just upset about how DTV handled the package change.

Traak
06-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Alot? I'd say we are 50/50 :)..The other thing about "free" 50 HD games? Where the heck are you getting that? OTA? DUDE WAKE UP..not everyone gets OTA HD signals..NO LOCALS FOR ME and MANY MANY MORE..

What I am seeing on this thread is this..The people who are upset are the ones who live in a perfect HD world. Guys,,sorry but your the rare ones. One is that you can pick up HD OTA. Two, your favorite team is playing near you and can watch it OTA, Three, you bought the ST package and got a bonus with HD games last year..

If I lived in this ideal world then YES..I agree with you. But...sorry to say, most of us dont get OTA, most of us buys the ST because our team is in another city.

What you guys have to understand is that Sunday Ticket IS NOT totally meant for a Cleveland resident to watch a Cleveland game. Maybe watching it in digital is better than analog OTA but what Sunday Ticket is for is the Cleveland fan in CA, MI, FL, and all over the US. OK now as an extra service, paying extra for HD IS WORTH $99 for some of us...even now I'm hearing $49..Thats way worth it.

So if your watching ST and can get OTA games, then why would you even buy ST? Why complain about paying the extra?

oblioman
06-18-2005, 04:55 AM
But you have to be thinking now that DirecTv is dropping the price "for some people" to $49 bucks (has this been substantiated?) that maybe Direct made a mistake. And the only reason they would consider lowering the price is the severe backlash they are hearing from prior ST holders.

Spicy Mikey
06-18-2005, 05:56 AM
Hey Trak, I think the sky is blue. I'm suspecting you have an argument as to why I'm wrong about that :)

Wake me when someone has something new to share about this subject. Until then, I'm out of here.

Traak
06-18-2005, 07:10 AM
The sky is blue? Its not what I learned in science class..LOL just joking. Anyways, I don't argue with you to spite you..Paying the extra money for HD I believe is justified. You don't. That is the only arguement between us...I think..heh.

Oh the $49 thing I said..I said that because others are reporting it..$99 or $49 either way I agree with it.

Spicy Mikey
06-18-2005, 07:21 AM
You win, I can't debate this anymore. :bowdown:

No hard feelings. See ya on another thread

oblioman
06-18-2005, 07:25 AM
Way to go guys,,have a beer and agree to disagree. Still won't help my Vikes. Did ya see where Madden is joining NBC for Sunday Night Football.....

CatManDoo
06-18-2005, 08:59 AM
Way to go guys,,have a beer and agree to disagree. Still won't help my Vikes. Did ya see where Madden is joining NBC for Sunday Night Football.....
OK, here we go. Let's keep this thread going 'til it fills up the server:

John Madden is the BEST ever!!Rebuttals?

besz28
06-18-2005, 09:13 AM
Way to go guys,,have a beer and agree to disagree. Still won't help my Vikes. Did ya see where Madden is joining NBC for Sunday Night Football.....
hey your vikes are gonna be real good this year even though you let the best receiver in football leave. you guys got a lot of good defensive people coming in. steelers and vikes in the superbowl :yippee:

donavanb
06-18-2005, 09:28 AM
I am upset about this but do not live in the perfect HD world. I live in an area were I can not get any of the OTA chan. I live in WV and my team is the Dolphins, so my locals via DTV also will not show the Dolphins. My problem is price. I know that some on here say even at $ 500.00 it would be a bargain, that is fine, but there has to be a line somewhere right? What about 1000, 2000 or 10,000 of course not, so where is the line. For me it has been crossed, when I started buying ST several years ago it was 139.00, now with superfan package it is up to 298.00. Maybe I am just cheap, maybe I shouldn't expect to get something for nothing (if paying 199.00 is nothing). And the arguement that I shouldn't expect to get HD free this year just because I got it free last year doesn't hold water with me. What if DTV came in and said HBO is $12 a month, but if you want HBO HD now you have to pay $6 more, and dont complain just cause you got it free last year. I think many would say that is part of what you were paying for with the HD subscription and HBO subscription. I felt the same way, It was my belief that the money I was paying for the HD subscription and the ST subscription was enough to get the HD Football games.

But I agree with capitalism, so if DTV can still get enough people that think it is a bargain then that is what they should do. I just think that they went about it the wrong way. They have not even said anything to me, if it was not for this website, my auto renewal would have kicked me in at the renewal rate and come Sept. I would have tuned in thinking I was getting the HD's.

CatManDoo
06-18-2005, 09:49 AM
What if DTV came in and said HBO is $12 a month, but if you want HBO HD now you have to pay $6 more, and dont complain just cause you got it free last year. I think many would say that is part of what you were paying for with the HD subscription and HBO subscription. I felt the same way, It was my belief that the money I was paying for the HD subscription and the ST subscription was enough to get the HD Football games.You have a good point there. I just signed up for HBO/Cinemax. I know you get something like 20 different versions of these channels, but I didn't even bother to add most of them to my "favorites". I only added the 2 that are HD (#215 and #219). I'm getting to the point where if something isn't HD, I almost don't even want to watch it. I know the other SD versions of HBO/Max are available and would have many more options, but I'll probably only go there as a last resort. So basically, I'm with you in the assumption that HD is understood to be part of the total package. In my case, there is absolutely no way I would have ever signed up for these extra channels without the HD. :yippee: To be perfectly honest, I wish I could get just the 2 HD channels instead of all 20, and I'd even pay half the price instead of one-tenth. Wonder if DirecTV would consider doing that? I doubt it.....

besz28
06-18-2005, 09:56 AM
i love the nfl period. high def or not.i buy the package not because it is a bargain or i think it is a bargain, 200 is a lot of money plus extra for high def, i agree with everyone it isn't fair to charge for something that was free last year. but football is my life ....family, god. steeler football and if i want to watch the only way i can is direct tv. they kind of have me and others like me, between a rock and a hard space.

oblioman
06-18-2005, 10:00 AM
With Directv's fine print for the ST SF package I think there will be a lot of disappointed viewers that fork over the extra $100 bucks. The extra views, according to Direct,,,will not be available in HD.

kelrhon
06-19-2005, 06:14 PM
I have been a DTV subscriber for over 1.5 years and am quite happy with the level of customer service, etc.......what bothers me, though, is the large number of posts on this site complaining about this and that with DTV and many of you are getting "deals" from DTV such as 6 months free HD or local channels for free, etc. Well........one of the reasons our costs go up every year is the fact that for every few folks who complain and get deals, the rest of us have to pay more.......I have HD and would love to have all of the HD channels that Voom had, etc.....but when DTV gets ready all of us will be good to go..........just hang in there.........no I am not a DTV cronie........just be patient.

hitdog042
06-19-2005, 07:13 PM
I can't believe this thread is still running.

donavanb
06-23-2005, 02:27 PM
bump


sorry just had to do that

:what:

CatManDoo
10-02-2005, 08:08 PM
I can't believe this thread is still running.
I can't believe it ever died. :D

Spicy Mikey
10-03-2005, 06:27 AM
Hey here's something that might get the thread going again :)

I've noticed heavy advertising for that stupid SuperFan package even now that the season has started. I never subscribed to it (as promised). Have many of you signed up? if so, do you think it was worth it?

I'm really curious to know how successful it was for DirecTV and if they will try milking us again next season.

By the way, I found that I can enjoy my Giants (3-1) just fine without the SuperFan package. No surprise there.

Smthkd
10-03-2005, 07:01 AM
Hey here's something that might get the thread going again :)

I've noticed heavy advertising for that stupid SuperFan package even now that the season has started. I never subscribed to it (as promised). Have many of you signed up? if so, do you think it was worth it?

I'm really curious to know how successful it was for DirecTV and if they will try milking us again next season.

By the way, I found that I can enjoy my Giants (3-1) just fine without the SuperFan package. No surprise there.
Well, I too kept my word and told DAVE to kiss my _____! However, I have found that I get more than enough HD games via OTA. Two from my local FOX and two from my local CBS, then I get two more from the NY feed of FoxHD, plus I get the Sunday night game from ESPNHD. Thats a total of 7 HD NFL games I get every Sunday "WITHOUT" that sleezy Sunday Ticket and Super Sucker Pack! :D

Spicy Mikey
10-03-2005, 07:16 AM
That's true, as HD "leaks" onto the scene from other sources, the "HD" package from Sunday Ticket becomes less of a factor. Let's face it, kidnapping the "HD" feeds and hiding them in the SuperFan package was a tactical decision by D* to force people to pony-up the extra $99. I never thought the package could be justified at that cost. It certainly won't be justified without the HD ransome going forward.

Anyone signup for SuperFan soley because of the HD? If so, now that the season has started, was it worth it? Even with the extra packae D* is still not showing you all the games in HD.

Pakbackr
10-03-2005, 10:40 AM
I would have to agree with a previous post. There are more than enough NFL games being broadcasted in HD for free to satisfy my needs. I can see where having the NFL package might be appealing if you wanted to see an out-of-market team play, or if you have everything in life and just can't imagine not having a live feed of every NFL game being played...otherwise, I don't see the appeal.

Living in Raleigh NC and being a huge Wolfpack fan, I may consider getting it at some point just to see Philip Rivers play for the San Diego Chargers. But until he gets their starting QB job, I am happy getting the games I get right now.

Heck, until the NASCAR chase is over, I only flip to football during commercials. Yesterday's race from Talladega was an instant classic. Don't tell the NASCAR folks this, but I would pay extrat o see that in HD every week!

CatManDoo
10-03-2005, 10:55 AM
That's true, as HD "leaks" onto the scene from other sources, the "HD" package from Sunday Ticket becomes less of a factor. Let's face it, kidnapping the "HD" feeds and hiding them in the SuperFan package was a tactical decision by D* to force people to pony-up the extra $99. I never thought the package could be justified at that cost. It certainly won't be justified without the HD ransome going forward.

Anyone signup for SuperFan soley because of the HD? If so, now that the season has started, was it worth it? Even with the extra packae D* is still not showing you all the games in HD.
HUGE miscalculation by DirecTV!!! :p

Smthkd
10-03-2005, 02:34 PM
......Heck, until the NASCAR chase is over, I only flip to football during commercials. Yesterday's race from Talladega was an instant classic. Don't tell the NASCAR folks this, but I would pay extrat o see that in HD every week!
That makes 2 of us! What a race! and like always in Talladega, what AMAZING CRASHES!!!!:bowdown:

CAR
10-04-2005, 12:54 PM
If you have been a good customer they will upgrade your Sunday Ticket to Super Fan for $49 - but you have to ask for it.

CPanther95
11-30-2005, 06:55 PM
Hate to dredge up this old thread, but FWIW, for those of you that got NFL ST but didn't take the Superfan option - it appears you can get Superfan for the rest of the season for free online at Directv.com.

You'll have the Superfan $49 option on the right, and on the left there's a Superfan $0.00 option.

surf_fun85
11-30-2005, 09:59 PM
I dont sub to NFL Sunday Ticket, but when i went in my directv account online, it allso listed the Superfan package, for free for the reamining season.

Would i be able to get the superfan package for free, without the full Sunday ticket package ?

Spicy Mikey
12-01-2005, 05:38 AM
No you can't subscribe to the Superfan package with the Sunday Ticket package. It says that on the FAQ page.

Where does everyone find this "free" link? I went to the DirecTV site and poked around. I couldn't find anything about it being free now. Everything still says it's $49 for the remainder of the season.

CPanther95
12-01-2005, 08:31 AM
It should show up if you are an NFL ST sub (that didn't subscribe to Superfan).

Spicy Mikey
12-01-2005, 08:50 AM
I must be a moron. I can't find the link online. None the less, I called DirecTV and asked them. It's true. You have to ask, but they'll activate the SuperFan for the remaining 5 weeks at no charge. I did it. What the heck, can't beat the price.

CPanther95
12-01-2005, 09:13 AM
Worth every penny. ;)

Smthkd
12-01-2005, 12:12 PM
Worth every penny. ;)
Ummmmm! What Penny!? :D

jplevine
12-01-2005, 12:41 PM
I called on this. They said the free subscription was only for new DirecTV customers - not existing ones. I was only eligible for the $49 offer. Have others encountered this as well?

Spicy Mikey
12-01-2005, 01:23 PM
Typical DirecTV. The left and doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

I called after reading the post above and asked him if it was true. He said yes and then connected me. He didn't even hesistate at turning it on.

surf_fun85
12-01-2005, 05:00 PM
it should be in the right Column where the sports packages are when you change your programming on the directv website in your account page.

Look closely

jplevine
12-01-2005, 05:46 PM
Looks like you need to be a Sunday Ticket subscriber or become one to get the SuperFan package for free. It would not let me do otherwise. Is this true?

calicogang
12-02-2005, 01:26 AM
It's true! I just called DTV and was given the rest of the Superfan Pack at no charge! You need to ask for it. No, I did not have to buy the rest of the Sunday ticket. :thumbsup:

jplevine
12-02-2005, 07:15 AM
Just so I understand, you were not a Sunday Ticket subscriber and they gave you the Superfan package free? If so, did you connect to a specific department?

jplevine
12-02-2005, 11:55 AM
I just called again and they said I would need to subscribe to the Sunday Ticket for the remainder of the season. They would then give me the SuperFan package for free. Did others get both the Sunday Ticket and SuperFan for free?

BSTAN21
12-02-2005, 01:19 PM
No, you HAVE to be a ST subscriber to get the Superfan for free.

calicogang
12-02-2005, 02:14 PM
I was told last night that I would get the last 5 weeks of the Superfan Pack at NO CHARGE. And no, I did not have to buy the rest of the ST. Mark

surf_fun85
12-02-2005, 05:58 PM
You all can try ordering the remaining weeks of superfan, on the directv website, without talking to an CSR, and see what happens

let us know what happens

DodgerKing
09-16-2007, 07:18 PM
Thats right it will cost $219 for NFL ST for all the SD broadcast but an ADDITIONAL $99 for the HD Games for a Grand total of $318!!

That is why MLB extra innings is the best deal out there. More games, every day of the week for close to half the price. Plus, to get the HD games all you have to do is sign up for the superfan package for an extra $20. :D

BTW, sorry for removing your links. It would not let me post with URL's included because I have not made 5 posts yet.

Smthkd
09-16-2007, 09:08 PM
You do realize this thread is almost 2 years old right? :rolleyes:

DodgerKing
09-16-2007, 09:33 PM
You do realize this thread is almost 2 years old right? :rolleyes:

Yeah...Just wanted to put my two cents in.

mystic7
09-16-2007, 09:39 PM
Thanks to inflation, your 2005 2 cents are now worth 1.17 cents.