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Sony: No more backward compatibility for the PS3

The_Omega_Man
08-04-2008, 06:05 PM
I assume that everyone here is already aware of this, as this is an "old," blog. If there was already a thread posted about this, then I'm sorry. I'm too lazy to do the search for it, today. :what:

I guess that my son's 60 GB machine has been "Grandfathered!"

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/24978


Sony: No more backward compatibility for the PS3

Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:20PM EDT

Bad news for PlayStation 2 veterans: Looks like last year's 80GB PS3 will be the last of its kind to play your old PS2 games.
According to Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/16/scea-ceo-jack-tretton-dishes/), Sony gaming exec Jack Trenton told a roundtable of reporters that moving ahead, no upcoming PlayStation 3 consoles would feature backward compatibility with the PS2.

"I would like to have had it in there, but Sony's collective strategy deemed we could afford to lose it," Trenton said. "We've now gone down that road, and we're not going back."

Backward compatibility with PS2 games was one of the PS3's bigger selling points when it first hit stores back in late 2006; indeed, the original 60GB and 20GB models boasted hardware-based backward compatibility (courtesy of the "Emotion" graphics synthesizer) with all PS2 titles.

Later PS3 models, including refreshed 60GB consoles and the 80GB version released last year, dumped the Emotion chip, although you could still play selected PS2 games with the help of downloadable software patches.

Then came the $399, 40GB PS3, which was the first PlayStation 3 without any PS2 backward compatibility at all, and Sony says that its 80GB replacement (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20080715/tc_nm/videogames_sony80gb_dc) (due this September) won't play PS2 titles, either. PSOne games will still work, though.

So, I'm curious: Is PS2 backward compatibility still a factor for anyone shopping for a PS3? Any PlayStation 3 owners worried that their PS2 collections will be useless if they ever need to replace their consoles? Or are you happy sticking with PS3 games?

railven
08-04-2008, 06:08 PM
I assume that everyone here is already aware of this, as this is an "old," blog. If there was already a thread posted about this, then I'm sorry. I'm too lazy to do the search for it, today. :what:

I guess that my son's 60 GB machine has been "Grandfathered!"

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/24978

Yeah, tad too late. Been discussed since E3's big announcement.

Oh well, nothing like old news to rekindle hatred and disappointment.

Stupid sony.

GLOW
08-04-2008, 09:44 PM
I have a few questions, Omega:

1. When was the last time M$ updated their BC?
2. What percentage of Xbox 1 games will play on the 360?
3. Within the percentage of Xbox games that will play on the 360, how many of them are actually any good?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

Hitachi65SWX20B
08-04-2008, 10:41 PM
I have a few questions, Omega:

1. When was the last time M$ updated their BC?
2. What percentage of Xbox 1 games will play on the 360?
3. Within the percentage of Xbox games that will play on the 360, how many of them are actually any good?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

I can answer those questions for ya.
the answer for #1 is November 07 at fall update.
#2 well over 300 games (which is 300+ more then the ps3 will do now)
#3 they pick which games get emulated to run on the X360 by how well they sold at retail. That being said, If it sold well... Then Chances are its a good game!

railven
08-04-2008, 11:51 PM
I can answer those questions for ya.
the answer for #1 is November 07 at fall update.
#2 well over 300 games (which is 300+ more then the ps3 will do now)
#3 they pick which games get emulated to run on the X360 by how well they sold at retail. That being said, If it sold well... Then Chances are its a good game!

I wouldn't specific say it was a good game.

Look up Hsu (david was it, a writer for EGM) he grilled Moore on why a Barbie game got BC on the 360 before Halo 1 and 2.

Halo 1/2 took a while, I think almost 6-8months into the consoles life span.

Pinoy
08-05-2008, 01:23 AM
Seen it... meh. I'm not really interested in playing ps2 games on my ps3. If I can then it's cool but I'm definitely not paying extra for it, that's why I got a 40gig model.

railven
08-05-2008, 07:52 AM
Hey I just remembered something

#2 well over 300 games (which is 300+ more then the ps3 will do now)

Also not true. Granted I'm sure people are going to say something like "so what, why do I want to play PS1 games" but the all PS3 models have BC with all PS1 games.

Cygnus
08-05-2008, 09:05 AM
I thought the 80GB MGS4 PS3 had some PS2 BC? At least thats what a coworker told me. Is he wrong?

MikeRox
08-05-2008, 09:06 AM
The MGS4 PS3 is the last BC system isn't it?

All I know is I have one of about 1-2m Region B playback backwards compatible PS3s in the world :p

Cygnus
08-05-2008, 09:08 AM
For the record, the list of XB games playable on 360 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm). BTW I see Outrun2 is listed. I was at EB the other day and the salesperson told me that it was not BC. Guess I will be stopping by there today..hopefully its still in stock *sigh*

Pinoy
08-05-2008, 11:19 AM
I thought the 80GB MGS4 PS3 had some PS2 BC? At least thats what a coworker told me. Is he wrong?

Yes the 80gb mgs4 version plays ps2 games, tried it on my friends and it works.

railven
08-05-2008, 11:37 AM
I dunno if I told this story here, but one of my cousins wanted a PS3. So he saved up his money, sold off his PS2, and when his birthday came a few family members and I matched doubled what he had.

He bought himself a 40GB PS3. One day I was showing him how to set it up over HDMI and I noticed the silver bezel. I asked if it had card readers, we flipped the lid and it did.

Checked the OS info, he had a 60GB. Lucky bastard. Paid 40GB Price and got himself a working 60GB.

awol
08-05-2008, 11:55 AM
I dunno if I told this story here, but one of my cousins wanted a PS3. So he saved up his money, sold off his PS2, and when his birthday came a few family members and I matched doubled what he had.

He bought himself a 40GB PS3. One day I was showing him how to set it up over HDMI and I noticed the silver bezel. I asked if it had card readers, we flipped the lid and it did.

Checked the OS info, he had a 60GB. Lucky bastard. Paid 40GB Price and got himself a working 60GB.

Did he buy it used? Or was it just mis-packaged?

HDMann
08-05-2008, 12:39 PM
I assume that everyone here is already aware of this, as this is an "old," blog. If there was already a thread posted about this, then I'm sorry. I'm too lazy to do the search for it, today. :what:

I guess that my son's 60 GB machine has been "Grandfathered!"

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/24978

Are you saying the list that sony has on their site for BC will not apply to all PS3 systems released after September?

All the 60gbs on Ebay are going for close to 400 and I can get an 80gb, Brand New with Game, Remote and BRD for 499. Doesn't make sense to me to buy the 60gb if all my PS2 games on Sonys list will play for me.

Also says something about refreshed 60gbs' Do they have a special code?

railven
08-05-2008, 12:42 PM
Are you saying the list that sony has on their site for BC will not apply to all PS3 systems released after September?

All the 60gbs on Ebay are going for close to 400 and I can get an 80gb, Brand New with Game, Remote and BRD for 499. Doesn't make sence to me to buy the 60gb if all my PS2 games on Sonys list will play for me.

Be careful.

Currently you can find in the wild:
20GB (probably only used or on Ebay) plays everything
60GB (probably only used or on Ebay) plays everything
40GB (current model in stores) plays only PS1/PS3 games
80GB (current model in stores) plays all PS1 games and ~70% of PS2 games.

In a few week you'll only see a new 80GB that is pretty much the current 40GB with an 80GB HDD.

HDMann
08-05-2008, 12:52 PM
Be careful.

Currently you can find in the wild:
20GB (probably only used or on Ebay) plays everything
60GB (probably only used or on Ebay) plays everything
40GB (current model in stores) plays only PS1/PS3 games
80GB (current model in stores) plays all PS1 games and ~70% of PS2 games.

In a few week you'll only see a new 80GB that is pretty much the current 40GB with an 80GB HDD.

Will that be listed on the package?

$400 for 60gb that plays all games and is used. $499 for new 80gb Model with extras + warranty.

Knowing to buy new and not pay shipping + tax or worry you are getting scammed. Priceless!! :thumbsup:

Hopefully still available!

railven
08-05-2008, 12:58 PM
Will that be listed on the package?

$400 for 60gb that plays all games and is used. $499 for new 80gb Model with extras + warranty.

Knowing to buy new and not pay shipping + tax or worry you are getting scammed. Priceless!! :thumbsup:

It will be listed on the box, they have to for legal reasons.

If you have a large collection of PS2 games and you don't see some of your favorites listed on the BC page, I'd dip on the 60GB.

But if you aren't too worried, get the 80GB. If it comes down to it, you can buy a used PS2 for like $50-60 bucks.

Sucks, that Sony took this road, but not like I'm a share holder. All I can do is bend over when and take it like a man! haha.

MikeRox
08-05-2008, 01:02 PM
For the record, the list of XB games playable on 360 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm). BTW I see Outrun2 is listed. I was at EB the other day and the salesperson told me that it was not BC. Guess I will be stopping by there today..hopefully its still in stock *sigh*

It wasn't BC for a very long time (it was my most wanted title for 360 BC :)) unfortunately it doesn't run as well on the 360 as it does on the original Xbox and often trots along at 30fps instead of a silky 60fps. But I guess thats the price you pay for being a lazy ass who cant be arsed to rig up the Xbox for 1 game :lol:

Outrun 2006 Coast 2 Coast is the better product though so personally I'd track that one down if you can.

MikeRox
08-05-2008, 01:06 PM
Are you saying the list that sony has on their site for BC will not apply to all PS3 systems released after September?

If you want BC, take my advice and buy it now. I picked up my PS3 just after they announced the 60gb was being discontinued in Europe (we only had software BC over here, no hardware BC systems at all :() as I was worried I wouldn't be able to get hold of one if I waited.

The 60gb I bought dried up about 2 weeks after they officially discontinued it and I could see the same happening in the US. I'm baffled as to why they're dropping BC compeltely though, I mean they've just stated they want to catch the PS2 owners upgrading, BC is the no brainer that made them going to PS2 so easy from the PS1. Removing BC makes a 360 just as logical a purchase, and it opens up access to titles they couldn't have played on their PS2 via the Xbox BC.

Cygnus
08-05-2008, 01:24 PM
I thought I read that Outrun 2 was the better game...? Unfortunately none of the eb/gs in my area has outrun 2k6 in stock. Do ppl still play either game online? Do they support splitscreen play? Too bad sega is not making another outrun.

It wasn't BC for a very long time (it was my most wanted title for 360 BC :)) unfortunately it doesn't run as well on the 360 as it does on the original Xbox and often trots along at 30fps instead of a silky 60fps. But I guess thats the price you pay for being a lazy ass who cant be arsed to rig up the Xbox for 1 game :lol:

Outrun 2006 Coast 2 Coast is the better product though so personally I'd track that one down if you can.

MikeRox
08-05-2008, 01:28 PM
Neither Outrun 2 nor 2006 have ever had splitscreen play, the Xbox wasn't powerful enough to do it properly.

Outrun 2006 Coast 2 Coast actually has Outrun 2 on it as well. 2006 is actually Outrun 2 SP so has the drafting, and the new US themed courses.

Nobody played em online when they first came out (both games pretty much bombed on the Xbox :( sad as they are the best game on the system IMO)

HDMann
08-05-2008, 03:36 PM
Be careful.

Currently you can find in the wild:
20GB (probably only used or on Ebay) plays everything
60GB (probably only used or on Ebay) plays everything
40GB (current model in stores) plays only PS1/PS3 games
80GB (current model in stores) plays all PS1 games and ~70% of PS2 games.

In a few week you'll only see a new 80GB that is pretty much the current 40GB with an 80GB HDD.

I purchased the unit only to find out it was actually a 40GB. I was unaware though because the box had nothing written saying it was a 40gb or incompatible with the PS2 games.

awol
08-05-2008, 03:50 PM
I purchased the unit only to find out it was actually a 40GB. I was unaware though because the box had nothing written saying it was a 40gb or incompatible with the PS2 games.

Speaking as someone who works in advertising, this is not something they would put on the box. You only want to hi-lite the positives on packaging. Not point out the negatives. The older models touted their BC capability.

HDMann
08-05-2008, 04:43 PM
Speaking as someone who works in advertising, this is not something they would put on the box. You only want to hi-lite the positives on packaging. Not point out the negatives. The older models touted their BC capability.

I saw some 60g Refurbs for $440. May be going in that direction.

Pinoy
08-06-2008, 02:22 AM
Speaking as someone who works in advertising, this is not something they would put on the box. You only want to hi-lite the positives on packaging. Not point out the negatives. The older models touted their BC capability.

The 40gb model box says 'this system is incompatible with and will not play ps2 games' (just went and looked at my box)... of course it's in reeeaaaaalllly small writing.

awol
08-06-2008, 08:31 AM
The 40gb model box says 'this system is incompatible with and will not play ps2 games' (just went and looked at my box)... of course it's in reeeaaaaalllly small writing.

Really? That's good. Someone in their legal department is doing their job then.

GLOW
08-06-2008, 09:36 AM
I can answer those questions for ya.
the answer for #1 is November 07 at fall update.
#2 well over 300 games (which is 300+ more then the ps3 will do now)
#3 they pick which games get emulated to run on the X360 by how well they sold at retail. That being said, If it sold well... Then Chances are its a good game!

I just checked the Xbox website and Shenmue II is now BC on the 360. Nice :yippee:

MikeRox
08-06-2008, 10:51 AM
Don't do it! Get yourself a Dreamcast and the PAL ver of Shenmue 2. I couldn't bring myself to replay it on the Xbox after hearing just how god awful the dubbing was. >_<

(and I actually LOVED the cheesy dub the original Shenmue got).

Hitachi65SWX20B
08-06-2008, 11:08 AM
I just checked the Xbox website and Shenmue II is now BC on the 360. Nice :yippee:

A lot of people think Microsoft isn't working BC anymore, They are just doing it more on the down low these days. Being this far in to the life cycle of the X360 BC it isn't a big selling point anymore. Think about it, The original Xbox sold something 25 million world wide in 5 years, The X360 is set to eclipse that soon. Most of the original Xbox users have made the switch to the X360 and built a nice game library of 360 games.

As a X360 launch console owner, BC was HUGE at the beginning to me. Now it's just...Meh. Obviously Sony with its Huge ps2 user base and huge ps2 game library is going to have to treat BC with greater concern, and they are not. Yeah it'll still play ps1 games but come on, When the next xbox comes out it better damn well play 360 games over the original xbox games.

awol
08-06-2008, 11:18 AM
When the next xbox comes out it better damn well play 360 games over the original xbox games.

Don't be shocked if it doesn't. Sony's gone out on a limb here and if it proves successful for them (I don't understand how), the others may follow suit. The only reason to me for having BC is at launch. There's typically just not enough good games at a console's launch. And there's usually still games coming out for the older system that are still needing to be played.

But with Sony's stance of, if you want to play PS2 games, keep your PS2 or buy a new one, while not consumer friendly, seems to not be a total failure. If it works out in the long run, I could certainly see MS going that route.

GLOW
08-06-2008, 11:35 AM
Don't do it! Get yourself a Dreamcast and the PAL ver of Shenmue 2. I couldn't bring myself to replay it on the Xbox after hearing just how god awful the dubbing was. >_<

(and I actually LOVED the cheesy dub the original Shenmue got).

I got about an hour into it on Xbox a couple years ago but then my Xbox broke last year and I had no way to finish it. The voice work was bad but it wasn't game ruiningly bad, at least for me. I just want to play this game that everyone raves about. I've also got a few other Xbox games I never finished but I doubt I'll ever get around to playing them.

There's no way in hell I'm going to buy a Dreamcast. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't. I've got my hands WAYYY too full as it is with my Wii and PS3. I've got a bunch of PS2 games I still haven't gotten around to playing/beating, I still play COD4 online, and I've yet to beat Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess on Wii. I also want to buy and beat RE: Umbrella Chronicles and RE4 for the Wii before RE5 comes out next Feb. On top of that, LittleBigPlanet, Resistance 2, Guitar Hero: On Tour, and Rock Band 2 and 1 (+ DLC) will dominate my fall/winter playtime.

Jesus, just thinking about all this is making my head spin. If I don't buy another videogame for 2 years, I'll still have my hands full. I buy way more than I can handle. It's just like I was with Blu-ray last year. :lol:

HDMann
08-07-2008, 11:16 AM
The 40gb model box says 'this system is incompatible with and will not play ps2 games' (just went and looked at my box)... of course it's in reeeaaaaalllly small writing.
it was the movie and game pack. could that be the reason or would it work?

Pinoy
08-07-2008, 11:34 AM
I purchased the unit only to find out it was actually a 40GB. I was unaware though because the box had nothing written saying it was a 40gb or incompatible with the PS2 games.

it was the movie and game pack. could that be the reason or would it work?

It didn't come in the original sony packaging?

With the models released right now, if you have a 20, 60, or 80 gigabyte ps3 it will play ps2 games to some extent.

If you have a 40gb model it will not play ps2 games.


If ps2 backwards compatibility is important to you then return the 40gb model and get either the MGS4 80gb ps3 new or a used 20/60/80 gb model.

railven
08-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Think about it, The original Xbox sold something 25 million world wide in 5 years, The X360 is set to eclipse that soon.

It was 4 years. Microsoft took a huge gamble by killing the original Xbox1 when the Xbox360 launched. Some of the 360 launch games were ported Xbox1 games that were about to be released (ie Kameo, since someone mentioned this in another thread.)

I think Perfect Dark was the first Xbox360 native game and CoD2 the first DX9 conversion game.

it was the movie and game pack. could that be the reason or would it work?

Movie pak? Spider-Man 3?

Any 40GB won't play PS2 games. It doesn't have the hardware. You can pray for a Software emulation package later, but as of now - 40GBs no dice on PS2. And in a few more weeks the new 80GB will also have no support for PS2.

HDMann
08-10-2008, 08:24 PM
Just won auction for New MGs4 80gb. Hope it works out and I have it early this week.

Cygnus
08-11-2008, 08:56 AM
I prefer BC in consoles. As long as M$ does not drastically change XB successor's architecture, it should not be too difficult for 360 BC. I prefer to not own multiple consoles...

Don't be shocked if it doesn't. Sony's gone out on a limb here and if it proves successful for them (I don't understand how), the others may follow suit. The only reason to me for having BC is at launch. There's typically just not enough good games at a console's launch. And there's usually still games coming out for the older system that are still needing to be played.

But with Sony's stance of, if you want to play PS2 games, keep your PS2 or buy a new one, while not consumer friendly, seems to not be a total failure. If it works out in the long run, I could certainly see MS going that route.

MikeRox
08-11-2008, 10:52 AM
I prefer BC in consoles. As long as M$ does not drastically change XB successor's architecture, it should not be too difficult for 360 BC. I prefer to not own multiple consoles...


I'd have thought it'd be easier than they found Xbox implementation, the issues I believe they had with running Xbox games on the 360, was due to changing manufacturers for the GPU etc.

awol
08-11-2008, 11:41 AM
Here's something I thought was odd. My elite came today, but on the box it says the Arcade model isn't BC. I thought that was kind of odd. I'm guessing it's because of the lack of HDD to store the patches/install needed?

MikeRox
08-11-2008, 05:35 PM
Aye pretty much, you need a HDD because the original Xbox had one as standard and most games used it for caching data.

kamspy
08-11-2008, 05:51 PM
Buy a PS2 and save the diode in your PS3.

I don't even play BDs in my PS3 anymore. I stream them using TVersity and my PC. The only time that diode gets used is for games (until they get around that in Linux) and to watch rental BDs.

When I buy a BD, I back it up, remux it with no menu, subs, extras, additional audio etc. I also usually make it 720p. Usually rounds out to about 5GB with regular DD or dts.

Whoever stole my PC got a huge HDM library and wasted a lot of my time. I spent hours backing up and remuxing those things! I've got 4 remuxing in the background as I type this! Trying to catch up here.

railven
08-12-2008, 05:55 AM
I'd have thought it'd be easier than they found Xbox implementation, the issues I believe they had with running Xbox games on the 360, was due to changing manufacturers for the GPU etc.

It wasn't the change in GPU. Both the Xbox1 and the Xbox360 used a similar GPU architecture, nVidia for Xbox1 and ATI for Xbox360 both DX8/9 compatible.

It was the change in CPUs that did them in. The Xbox1 was x86 based and the xbox360 is PowerPC based.

That's why they had to make compatible profiles, since the code had to be redone to take utilize the new CPU design.

On the PS3, it is the lack of a consistent GPU that is killing them. If they some how manage to emulate the GS on the RSX, BC will be open, but I seriously think the reason they don't want to do this is because of pirating.

Once the GPU is open to software manipulation via the OS it will take a Linux coder only days/weeks (at the rate they work) to gain access to the GPU and its memory for Linux manipulation. Following the PS3-hack scene, there are coders frothing at the mouth for this.

Imagine, the PS3 being having a Linux based dedicated GPU. They can start running PC games on it. If you've seen the videos of them running Windows XP/Vista on it you'd have an idea of what adding an extra 256MBs and a dedicated GPU can do.