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What you doing with the $600 Rebate!

msusig1855
05-08-2008, 05:42 PM
Just got my $600 tax rebate today!! :banana: Still haven't thought about what i wanna do with it. What are you guys doing with yours??

IlovemesomeHD
05-08-2008, 05:44 PM
a few Blu Rays and bills

Lee Stewart
05-08-2008, 05:46 PM
In . . . the . . . bank . . . it . . . goes.

:yippee:

kamspy
05-08-2008, 05:56 PM
Pay bills, and hopefully get a my new Jeep lifted, because the kit on my old one doesn't fit the new one:(

My big ol 32" rock crawling tires are crying because they're not being used.

Who wants to buy a 4" lift kit for 98 Cherokee?

anythingwt
05-08-2008, 06:05 PM
Haven't decided yet. I think I'm gonna buy my sub for my HT, buy some new work clothes, a few movies, and get my car stereo fixed(its busted again :( )

I'm gonna blow the whole thing though that's for sure. That's what they're meant for, right? ;)

mshulman
05-08-2008, 06:06 PM
I think the whole thing is stupid though. That's 170 Billion! How about using it to help reduce our national debt?!?!? Granted 170 Billion will hardly make a dent in it, but its a start.

Many people are just going to save it, others are going to use it pay off debt and then some will use it and buy something new. I hardly think its going to stimulate the economy.

Start reducing our debt, reduce our deficit and get the country's financials in shape... maybe that might be a good start to improving the economy?

kamspy
05-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Haven't decided yet. I think I'm gonna buy my sub for my HT, buy some new work clothes, a few movies, and get my car stereo fixed(its busted again :( )

I'm gonna blow the whole thing though that's for sure. That's what they're meant for, right? ;)

PM me. I can get that fixed for ya...again.

dangerdoc
05-08-2008, 06:08 PM
I'm one of the suckers footing the bill. No rebate for me or my family.

Stew4HD
05-08-2008, 06:30 PM
I'm one of the suckers footing the bill. No rebate for me or my family.

Same with me! Those getting the "stimulis" will have to pay taxes on it next year :mad:

hdtvjunkie
05-08-2008, 06:39 PM
The way deisel fuel keeps going up, I'll probably have to use it to fill my truck up.!!!!!!!!:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: I think I'm gonna have to take out a loan just to drive back and forth to work.

DanPLC
05-08-2008, 06:41 PM
Same with me! Those getting the "stimulis" will have to pay taxes on it next year :mad:

Um, no you don't have to pay taxes on your stimulus payment. Where do you get your info...internet forums?

Read it from the source: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=182003,00.html

Search for "Is my stimulus payment taxable?"

anythingwt
05-08-2008, 06:41 PM
PM me. I can get that fixed for ya...again.

PM sent.

Gideon
05-08-2008, 06:55 PM
I might as well wad up the check and shove it in my gas tank, because thats where its going anyways.
:banghead:

Farout777
05-08-2008, 06:58 PM
Nothing, we don't qualify for it.:huh

Stew4HD
05-08-2008, 07:06 PM
Um, no you don't have to pay taxes on your stimulus payment. Where do you get your info...internet forums?

Read it from the source: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=182003,00.html

Search for "Is my stimulus payment taxable?"

I am happy to stand corrected. I didn't read it on the net, a work mate told me but I really didn't think much of it since it doesn't apply to me.

dels28
05-08-2008, 07:25 PM
I'll be getting 1800 thanx to the wife and two kids. Unfortunately I drive 80 miles a day to work round trip and gas just hit 3.93 a gallon yesterday where I'm at. Won't be going towards my nice little hobby.

SOBAY310
05-08-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't understand, we only got $900 and I filed jointly and we have a child...I thought we were going to get $1,500!:

Me: $600
Wife: $600
Child: $300

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to get something, but was expecting a tad more. :what:

Lee Stewart
05-08-2008, 07:46 PM
I don't understand, we only got $900 and I filed jointly and we have a child...I thought we were going to get $1,500!:

Me: $600
Wife: $600
Child: $300

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to get something, but was expecting a tad more. :what:

Did you read the link in post #11?

SOBAY310
05-08-2008, 07:50 PM
Did you read the link in post #11?

I did now, thanks Lee. I'm still not sure what happened, I don't fall into any of those categories.

Oh well, I'll have to figure out what happened.

PFC5
05-08-2008, 09:12 PM
I don't understand, we only got $900 and I filed jointly and we have a child...I thought we were going to get $1,500!:

Me: $600
Wife: $600
Child: $300

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to get something, but was expecting a tad more. :what:

YOur income likely limited how much you got based on the income reported on your 2007 return.

crazyal
05-08-2008, 09:29 PM
You're welcome.

HiramAbiff
05-08-2008, 10:11 PM
Just got my $600 tax rebate today!! :banana: Still haven't thought about what i wanna do with it. What are you guys doing with yours??

Paying rent, woooo!!!!!!!!!! Oh, and using the leftovers for Super Mario Kart Wii.

joey82083
05-08-2008, 10:20 PM
I'd like to get a ping pong table to sit on top of my pool table but people up here at work got me scared talking about gas prices hitting $8/gal by the end of the year.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Liquidx
05-08-2008, 10:25 PM
The woman wants to use ours combined as a vacation fund... I'd rather use the money on cheap booze and hookers.

MikeRox
05-09-2008, 02:43 AM
You guys are getting $600 off the government :o

Now I'm well pissed off, being in the lowest earning category our government has seen it fit to actually INCREASE our tax, to reduce the taxes of people earning over 20,000. And this is the "Labour" party, who represent the "working class" and "low earners" supposedly.

They've pretty much screwed up any chances of getting re-elected with it though. Don't know why the hell our country was retarded enough to elect them in for a third time anyway. Oh yeah, they give out more benefits to a chunk of society than most of us can earn working full time. Wish I was female, could have popped 2 kids out in my late teens and had it all paid for me, alternatively not being from this country also gets you free housing and maximum benefits.

dangerdoc
05-09-2008, 08:09 AM
Um, no you don't have to pay taxes on your stimulus payment. Where do you get your info...internet forums?

Read it from the source: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=182003,00.html

Search for "Is my stimulus payment taxable?"


I bet you pay state taxes on it like you would any refund check.

Lee Stewart
05-09-2008, 08:14 AM
I did now, thanks Lee. I'm still not sure what happened, I don't fall into any of those categories.

Oh well, I'll have to figure out what happened.

Does this help?

Your payment may be less than the maximum for one or more of the following reasons:

You are single and your net income tax liability is less than $600. If you file Form 1040 net income tax liability is the amount shown on Line 57, plus the amount on Line 52.
You are married and your net income tax liability is less than $1,200.
You are single and your adjusted gross income (AGI) is more than $75,000. On Form 1040, AGI is the amount on Line 37.
You are married filing a joint return and your AGI is more than $150,000.
You owe back taxes.
You have non-tax federal debts such as unpaid student loans or child-support obligations.

rbinck
05-09-2008, 08:18 AM
I bet you pay state taxes on it like you would any refund check.Yes I will if I buy anything with it in the form of sales tax. Hmmm... maybe I'll order over the internet and even escape that.

Rick-F
05-09-2008, 08:28 AM
Hard to decide: buy a new house or a tank of fuel . . .

PFC5
05-09-2008, 08:57 AM
I bet you pay state taxes on it like you would any refund check.

Federal refunds are NEVER taxed at ANY state level. The reason state refunds MIGHT be taxable is because IF you itemize you had already claimed a deduction for the state taxes that are refunded. Many people are wrong in thinking state refunds being taxable is double taxation.

Now ESTATE taxes ARE TRUE double taxation since they are taxing you on your new worth acquired/built up with your AFTER tax earnings. ;)

Whether ESTATE taxes being banned benefits the wealthy or not, it SHOULD be banned since NO ONE should be double taxed IMO. It defies ANY justification.

hdtvjunkie
05-09-2008, 10:26 AM
The woman wants to use ours combined as a vacation fund... I'd rather use the money on cheap booze and hookers.I seen where the price of Hopps has gone up, they are saying that beer will triple in price before June or July, so you might not be far off by having to use it to buy cheap booze.:D

dangerdoc
05-09-2008, 11:40 AM
deleted

Liquidx
05-09-2008, 12:02 PM
I seen where the price of Hopps has gone up, they are saying that beer will triple in price before June or July, so you might not be far off by having to use it to buy cheap booze.:D

Does that mean the now cheap booze won't be so cheap soon?

I told my fiance jokingly what I wanted to use the money on... she said " You're going to spend $600 on an STD?" :lol: :lol: :lol:
Glad she has a sense of humor, you need one to put up with me.

Hopefully the cost of hookers doesn't triple in price aswell, I ain't paying $6 for one. :huh

anythingwt
05-09-2008, 12:15 PM
Does that mean the now cheap booze won't be so cheap soon?

I told my fiance jokingly what I wanted to use the money on... she said " You're going to spend $600 on an STD?" :lol: :lol: :lol:
Glad she has a sense of humor, you need one to put up with me.

Hopefully the cost of hookers doesn't triple in price aswell, I ain't paying $6 for one. :huh

With the economy being down, nows probably the best time ever to get a hooker! I bet if you look hard they might even have some BOGO deals!

SOBAY310
05-09-2008, 12:19 PM
With the economy being down, nows probably the best time ever to get a hooker! I bet if you look hard they might even have some BOGO deals!

Especially if you look hard! :lol:

Liquidx
05-09-2008, 12:40 PM
With the economy being down, nows probably the best time ever to get a hooker! I bet if you look hard they might even have some BOGO deals!

Haha, nice tie-in there! :D

BTW, I should probably mention that I don't pick up hookers. I know many know that I'm kidding, but I'm sure theres some old-school type out here that thinks I'm being serious. Not kidding on the cheap booze though!

hdtvjunkie
05-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Haha, nice tie-in there! :D

BTW, I should probably mention that I don't pick up hookers. I know many know that I'm kidding, but I'm sure theres some old-school type out here that thinks I'm being serious. Not kidding on the cheap booze though!I figured you was joking about the hookers. Sometimes it pays to have a good sense of humor around here.

hdtvjunkie
05-09-2008, 04:19 PM
With the economy being down, nows probably the best time ever to get a hooker! I bet if you look hard they might even have some BOGO deals!I've seen some of the BOGO's around here, whew, I think I'll save my money!!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

neal77
05-09-2008, 04:57 PM
This isn't free money. Someone will have to pay this back, most likely our kids. Anyway, i'll be paying some bills with mine but with oil hitting $126.00 a barrel today that $600.00 might just be paying for gas for a month. Just think we were paying $20.00 a barrel when Bush took office.

Interesting chart
http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp

anythingwt
05-09-2008, 05:23 PM
This isn't free money. Someone will have to pay this back, most likely our kids.

Eh, this country is already in so much debt anyway, what's another 170 billion? ;)

PFC5
05-09-2008, 05:34 PM
This isn't free money. Someone will have to pay this back, most likely our kids. Anyway, i'll be paying some bills with mine but with oil hitting $126.00 a barrel today that $600.00 might just be paying for gas for a month. Just think we were paying $20.00 a barrel when Bush took office.

Interesting chart
http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp

Yeah because Bush controls Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Russia, Mexico, etc., etc. :rolleyes:

hdtvjunkie
05-09-2008, 05:41 PM
Yeah because Bush controls Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Russia, Mexico, etc., etc. :rolleyes:Maybe it will drop in Jan. 09

SOBAY310
05-09-2008, 05:42 PM
Yeah because Bush controls Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Russia, Mexico, etc., etc. :rolleyes:

So is it supply or our relations with these countries? Meaning, if we had better relationships with "oil powers", would we once again see gas in the $1.50 range? Man, I remember not so long ago when $1.50 was considered on the high side!

Or is it just a supply issue. And how come we "help" Iraq, yet we don't see any benefits of the oil they have over there?

I guess I'm just curious on to your opinion, I don't know enough to have a concrete opinioin on it all.

hdtvjunkie
05-09-2008, 05:47 PM
So is it supply or our relations with these countries? Meaning, if we had better relationships with "oil powers", would we once again see gas in the $1.50 range? Man, I remember not so long ago when $1.50 was considered on the high side!

Or is it just a supply issue. And how come we "help" Iraq, yet we don't see any benefits of the oil they have over there?

I guess I'm just curious on to your opinion, I don't know enough to have a concrete opinioin on it all.It has a lot to do with how it is bought on the stock market. The average person cant buy just a barrel of oil, you have to buy a minimum of 5000 barrels. Not quite sure either how it keeps getting driven so high unless the oil people keeping buying it at high prices and pushing prices even higher.

dangerdoc
05-09-2008, 06:19 PM
It has a lot to do with how it is bought on the stock market. The average person cant buy just a barrel of oil, you have to buy a minimum of 5000 barrels. Not quite sure either how it keeps getting driven so high unless the oil people keeping buying it at high prices and pushing prices even higher.

The oil market is like an Saturday auction.

If the weather is good, the people there have money and there is a general impression that the things at the auction are rare, the prices get driven up.

If the weather is bad, the people there are broke and there is the impression that there will be the same stuff at the next auction, prices go lower.

Right now, the weather is good. There are alot of people at the action.

The people at the auction have alot of money. China in particular has plenty of American dollars that aren't doing them much good. They literally have money burning a hole in their pockets.

The things seem rare, the general consensus is that smaller countries are industrializing and that there are more buyers that there is oil. The buyers are reluctant to wait until the next auction.

As far as whose money is driving up the costs, it may be your own. Your own retirement account has probably dumped investments in real estate funds and put them in commodity funds. Guess what, the commodity brokers are using your money to drive up the price of your gasoline.

On an ironic note, the goverment printing up hundreds of billions of dollars and giving them out to stimulate the economy is infationary which also drives up the price of gas.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

PFC5
05-09-2008, 06:55 PM
So is it supply or our relations with these countries? Meaning, if we had better relationships with "oil powers", would we once again see gas in the $1.50 range? Man, I remember not so long ago when $1.50 was considered on the high side!

Or is it just a supply issue. And how come we "help" Iraq, yet we don't see any benefits of the oil they have over there?

I guess I'm just curious on to your opinion, I don't know enough to have a concrete opinioin on it all.

Well for one, the demand for oil has gotten so high that even with all OPEC countries pumping at over 95% total pumping capacity, the demand is higher, so it is simple Economics 101. When the demand outstrips the supply, prices go up. Now if everyone conserves and demand goes down, then the supply outstrips the demand and the prices go down.


Another reason is there are not enough oil refineries to even process any more oil if those countries increase pumping to 100% capacity. It has been almost 25 years I think since we built an oil refinery in the USA despite our consumption more than doubling during the same time frame. We are basically at just about the worldwide limit for pumping AND refining the oil once it is pumped.

A third reason (to a lesser extent) is that oil is priced throughout the world in USD but with the dollar dropping it has just added to the problem. Now that we are lowering interest rates to try to stop a recession or worse from happening, it only lowers the value of the USD against other countries currency because they move their money to other markets that pay higher interest rates.

The only real ways to get oil down at this point is to reduce demand/dependency on oil. This is very hard because the world lives on oil still, and China and India are using much more than they EVER used before but so is the rest of the world. China & India are using record amounts and the escalating rate they need/use more oil each year has put us at the current supply limits.

We need to find new alternatives for oil at this point. The current price of oil will eventually throw all countries that depend on it into a recession because everything we buy or touch moves by truck at some point, so high oil prices affects everything we buy. The current prices are destructive to the world's economies and the only ones who benefit are the OPEC countries, but even they know that a global recession cuts off their revenue stream, but they are near capacity and have little left they can do to prevent it.

Hope this helps!

joey82083
05-09-2008, 07:20 PM
Well for one, the demand for oil has gotten so high that even with all OPEC countries pumping at over 95% total pumping capacity, the demand is higher, so it is simple Economics 101. When the demand outstrips the supply, prices go up. Now if everyone conserves and demand goes down, then the supply outstrips the demand and the prices go down.


Another reason is there are not enough oil refineries to even process any more oil if those countries increase pumping to 100% capacity. It has been almost 25 years I think since we built an oil refinery in the USA despite our consumption more than doubling during the same time frame. We are basically at just about the worldwide limit for pumping AND refining the oil once it is pumped.

A third reason (to a lesser extent) is that oil is priced throughout the world in USD but with the dollar dropping it has just added to the problem. Now that we are lowering interest rates to try to stop a recession or worse from happening, it only lowers the value of the USD against other countries currency because they move their money to other markets that pay higher interest rates.

The only real ways to get oil down at this point is to reduce demand/dependency on oil. This is very hard because the world lives on oil still, and China and India are using much more than they EVER used before but so is the rest of the world. China & India are using record amounts and the escalating rate they need/use more oil each year has put us at the current supply limits.

We need to find new alternatives for oil at this point. The current price of oil will eventually throw all countries that depend on it into a recession because everything we buy or touch moves by truck at some point, so high oil prices affects everything we buy. The current prices are destructive to the world's economies and the only ones who benefit are the OPEC countries, but even they know that a global recession cuts off their revenue stream, but they are near capacity and have little left they can do to prevent it.

Hope this helps!

I'm glad Friday's are a day we get to bump the drinking thread. I need one after these gas price discussions. :(

PFC5
05-09-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm glad Friday's are a day we get to bump the drinking thread. I need one after these gas price discussions. :(

Thinking about why gas prices are where they are just makes everything feel pretty hopeless since we are now on a train moving down the mountain with no brakes. Might as well drink. :lol:

We need this Smiley added to the catalog we have http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/images/smilies/cheers%5B1%5D.gif

kamspy
05-09-2008, 08:28 PM
Well for one, the demand for oil has gotten so high that even with all OPEC countries pumping at over 95% total pumping capacity, the demand is higher, so it is simple Economics 101. When the demand outstrips the supply, prices go up. Now if everyone conserves and demand goes down, then the supply outstrips the demand and the prices go down.


Another reason is there are not enough oil refineries to even process any more oil if those countries increase pumping to 100% capacity. It has been almost 25 years I think since we built an oil refinery in the USA despite our consumption more than doubling during the same time frame. We are basically at just about the worldwide limit for pumping AND refining the oil once it is pumped.

A third reason (to a lesser extent) is that oil is priced throughout the world in USD but with the dollar dropping it has just added to the problem. Now that we are lowering interest rates to try to stop a recession or worse from happening, it only lowers the value of the USD against other countries currency because they move their money to other markets that pay higher interest rates.

The only real ways to get oil down at this point is to reduce demand/dependency on oil. This is very hard because the world lives on oil still, and China and India are using much more than they EVER used before but so is the rest of the world. China & India are using record amounts and the escalating rate they need/use more oil each year has put us at the current supply limits.

We need to find new alternatives for oil at this point. The current price of oil will eventually throw all countries that depend on it into a recession because everything we buy or touch moves by truck at some point, so high oil prices affects everything we buy. The current prices are destructive to the world's economies and the only ones who benefit are the OPEC countries, but even they know that a global recession cuts off their revenue stream, but they are near capacity and have little left they can do to prevent it.

Hope this helps!

If gas is priced in USD, they why is it $0.07 USD a gallon in Kuwait? It's ALL about the relations. Something we cowboys are not to good at.

dangerdoc
05-09-2008, 08:28 PM
Thinking about why gas prices are where they are just makes everything feel pretty hopeless since we are now on a train moving down the mountain with no brakes. Might as well drink. :lol:

We need this Smiley added to the catalog we have http://www.hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/images/smilies/cheers%5B1%5D.gif

Don't fret, I've seen this cycle in the past. It my get worse before it gets better but it will get better.

PFC5
05-10-2008, 04:42 AM
If gas is priced in USD, they why is it $0.07 USD a gallon in Kuwait? It's ALL about the relations. Something we cowboys are not to good at.

Because the govt of Kuwait pays that subsidy for it's citizens there.

Kuwait probably shares the wealth of oil with it's citizens more than any other oil rich country.

PFC5
05-10-2008, 04:46 AM
Don't fret, I've seen this cycle in the past. It my get worse before it gets better but it will get better.

It won't get much better and WILL likely get much worse until we change the supply demand ratios. The only way to do that now is if the world economies go into a deep recession or an alternate energy source replaces a decent amount of the supply to change the ratios.

It is different this time because the OPEC countries reduced the supply for too long and now they cannot catch up, so even they are unable to stop it short of selling it below market, but that would only increase demand and would be short lived solution.

drbrosco
05-10-2008, 05:19 AM
After I fill my gas guzzling Cadillac up & catch up a bill, I am blowing every penny that's left. It would be unpatrotic not to blow it;)

MikeRox
05-10-2008, 05:28 AM
If Americans had sensible cars, that'd half the worlds oil usage :p but nooooo u want your 1mpg monster trucks while the rest of us pootle round in beetles, kas and matiz's :lol: I'm just teasing.

There certainly are a lot of obvious/simple steps towards reducing oil usage that the governments just sadly won't try though. I mean over here we used to have single handedly the finest rail network in the world. But over the past 60 years or so, it's just been left to rot, major lines being shut in favour of motorway expansion, and so now we're reliant on practically all freight (it used to be 80% or so rail based) being carried by truck. I believe rail now transports less than 5% of freight.

Sure it still uses diesel thus requiring oil, but 1 train pulling 50+ freight wagons is better than 50+ trucks all going to the same place. Thats another area they screwed up though, it's been proven that Steam Engines are far less pollutive than diesel, and they run on coal, something Britain was in no short supply of... until the Tories shut most of the mines down in the early 90s (go watch a film called Brassed Off to see about this... as well as Brass Bands like the one I play for :D it's a really good movie and also covers exactly this!).

It's really shocking to see how many bad decisions have been made over the years to get us up to this stage, I mean that Californian electric car experiment is another perfect example, the oil companies basically forcing the state government to end the programme because they knew it'd eventually lead to the state not needing anywhere near as much gasoline.

mluntz
05-12-2008, 08:51 AM
After I fill my gas guzzling Cadillac up & catch up a bill, I am blowing every penny that's left. It would be unpatrotic not to blow it;)

It's only patriotic if you buy American products with it! Otherwise, it doesn't do squat for the economy.

Paying bills with mine. :( :( :( :( :(

MikeRox
05-12-2008, 11:03 AM
It's only patriotic if you buy American products with it! Otherwise, it doesn't do squat for the economy.


How does that work? Do retailers in the US not get money anymore? :p (don't forget it's American citizens working in the stores, driving the trucks to deliver them etc.)

It's nearly impossible to buy British stuff anymore, despite being pretty much the biggest producer in the world less than a century ago. The economy is happy so long as the spending is done INSIDE the country, as that way it goes back into the system.

Just don't go importing any decent Blu-ray releases from Europe and you'll be fine :thumbsup:

mobiushky
05-12-2008, 12:19 PM
Well for one, the demand for oil has gotten so high that even with all OPEC countries pumping at over 95% total pumping capacity, the demand is higher, so it is simple Economics 101. When the demand outstrips the supply, prices go up. Now if everyone conserves and demand goes down, then the supply outstrips the demand and the prices go down.


Another reason is there are not enough oil refineries to even process any more oil if those countries increase pumping to 100% capacity. It has been almost 25 years I think since we built an oil refinery in the USA despite our consumption more than doubling during the same time frame. We are basically at just about the worldwide limit for pumping AND refining the oil once it is pumped.

A third reason (to a lesser extent) is that oil is priced throughout the world in USD but with the dollar dropping it has just added to the problem. Now that we are lowering interest rates to try to stop a recession or worse from happening, it only lowers the value of the USD against other countries currency because they move their money to other markets that pay higher interest rates.

The only real ways to get oil down at this point is to reduce demand/dependency on oil. This is very hard because the world lives on oil still, and China and India are using much more than they EVER used before but so is the rest of the world. China & India are using record amounts and the escalating rate they need/use more oil each year has put us at the current supply limits.

We need to find new alternatives for oil at this point. The current price of oil will eventually throw all countries that depend on it into a recession because everything we buy or touch moves by truck at some point, so high oil prices affects everything we buy. The current prices are destructive to the world's economies and the only ones who benefit are the OPEC countries, but even they know that a global recession cuts off their revenue stream, but they are near capacity and have little left they can do to prevent it.

Hope this helps!

Slight clarifications:

The last oil refinery built in the US was 32 years ago in 1976. There was one that was supposed to be commissioned in 1979, but many environmental groups opposed it and after a 9 year legal battle, it was scrapped. Consider the cost of maintaining a single 32 year old plant....

There is another option that would ease some of the pressure on Oil. In country drilling. The US does have a fairly decent oil deposit that we are not allowed to even consider tapping (see above). ANWR alone could contain as much as 29.4+ billion barrels. Not that we should drain it. but it certainly could be used to ease the prices. Remember that Prudhoe Bay was supposed to only last 10-15 years and it's still going strong after 30+ years with an estimated 30 more years or so (25 Billion barrels in 1977 with around 13 Billion remaining). Prudhoe Bay currently represents 25% of domestic oil production/ Combined with more oil efficient designs and reduced dependency the price of Oil could drop, but it won't. Environmental groups oppose ANYTHING related to the oil industry on principle without consideration of possibilities that incorporate eco-friendly options.

mobiushky
05-12-2008, 12:26 PM
It's really shocking to see how many bad decisions have been made over the years to get us up to this stage, I mean that Californian electric car experiment is another perfect example, the oil companies basically forcing the state government to end the programme because they knew it'd eventually lead to the state not needing anywhere near as much gasoline.

How many average Joe's do you expect to pay $150,000+ for a car that holds 2 people and has a range of 30 miles? That car was doomed from the beginning because it was horribly inefficient and ridiculously over priced. No one could afford it let alone use it. Besides, Electric cars are not any kind of improvement over fossil fuels. Still need to produce the electricity, only now double the demand. Also, batteries are horrible chemical time bombs. To make and dispose of.

Fuel Cell vehicles have a much brighter future, but they are still priced way to high for anyone to even buy.

PS. - My truck gets 15-16 MPG (6.0 liter V8). My car only got 25MPG in a 4 cylinder. Not much of a real savings....

harrisek
05-12-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't qualify for the economic stimulus. If I did qualify, I think I'd buy a bicycle and cycle into work and cut my gas consumption.

hatt
05-12-2008, 01:29 PM
Slight clarifications:

The last oil refinery built in the US was 32 years ago in 1976. There was one that was supposed to be commissioned in 1979, but many environmental groups opposed it and after a 9 year legal battle, it was scrapped. Consider the cost of maintaining a single 32 year old plant....

There is another option that would ease some of the pressure on Oil. In country drilling. The US does have a fairly decent oil deposit that we are not allowed to even consider tapping (see above). ANWR alone could contain as much as 29.4+ billion barrels. Not that we should drain it. but it certainly could be used to ease the prices. Remember that Prudhoe Bay was supposed to only last 10-15 years and it's still going strong after 30+ years with an estimated 30 more years or so (25 Billion barrels in 1977 with around 13 Billion remaining). Prudhoe Bay currently represents 25% of domestic oil production/ Combined with more oil efficient designs and reduced dependency the price of Oil could drop, but it won't. Environmental groups oppose ANYTHING related to the oil industry on principle without consideration of possibilities that incorporate eco-friendly options.China/Cuba has no problem drilling off Florida's coast. Florida, big problem drilling off Florida's coast.:rolleyes:

fryet
05-12-2008, 01:44 PM
I am putting mine in the bank. If my bank account gets too heavy, I will pay off some of my house loan.

MikeRox
05-12-2008, 02:57 PM
How many average Joe's do you expect to pay $150,000+ for a car that holds 2 people and has a range of 30 miles? That car was doomed from the beginning because it was horribly inefficient and ridiculously over priced.

You must be thinking of a different car, the one on the documentary I watched did 300 miles on a single charge, was a 5 seater and cost only a small premium above a standard car.

PFC5
05-12-2008, 03:24 PM
Slight clarifications:

The last oil refinery built in the US was 32 years ago in 1976. There was one that was supposed to be commissioned in 1979, but many environmental groups opposed it and after a 9 year legal battle, it was scrapped. Consider the cost of maintaining a single 32 year old plant....

There is another option that would ease some of the pressure on Oil. In country drilling. The US does have a fairly decent oil deposit that we are not allowed to even consider tapping (see above). ANWR alone could contain as much as 29.4+ billion barrels. Not that we should drain it. but it certainly could be used to ease the prices. Remember that Prudhoe Bay was supposed to only last 10-15 years and it's still going strong after 30+ years with an estimated 30 more years or so (25 Billion barrels in 1977 with around 13 Billion remaining). Prudhoe Bay currently represents 25% of domestic oil production/ Combined with more oil efficient designs and reduced dependency the price of Oil could drop, but it won't. Environmental groups oppose ANYTHING related to the oil industry on principle without consideration of possibilities that incorporate eco-friendly options.

I threw out a conservative date for the last refinery because I was too lazy to look up exactly how long ago it was. What is funny is that Greenpeace really does run ships like the one depicted in Armageddon. My ex-wife's brother worked for Greenpeace and told we how horrible to the environment their ships are. Talk about your double standard huh? ;)

We also have shale oil reserves that are estimated to be greater than all the oil reserves in the Middle East. We started processing it last time oil hit a new record several decades ago. Then OPEC increased production (purposefully to derail this) and the price dropped to a level that didn't make it feasible to go after the shale oil.

There is no way it wouldn't be feasible to go after that shale oil now and even IF it were possible (I don't think they have enough control with the production/drilling/pumping already near capacity) for OPEC to create a price like they did before then we would get the lower prices again anyway.

Why no one is going after the shale oil now or even talking about it is beyond me. :mad:

mobiushky
05-12-2008, 03:38 PM
You must be thinking of a different car, the one on the documentary I watched did 300 miles on a single charge, was a 5 seater and cost only a small premium above a standard car.

If you are talking about the Documentary "Who killed the Electric Car?" you are sighting a very unreliable source. There has yet to be a 100% electric car with a 300 mile range produced by anyone that is viable for consumers.

The EV1 (the only actual production electric car to make market) cost $80,000 to build. GM lost money on every car made. The final max acheived range was 75 to 150 miles on the Gen 2 Ovonic battery. That was a 2 passenger car that took as much as 15 hours to recharge. The average range was quoted by GM to be 60-80 miles.

If you are talking about "Who killed the electric car?", remember that "documentary" was not a very accurate or truthful film. The answer to that question is simple. Reality. Reality killed the electric car. (Interesting to note that GM has stated publicly that a waiting list of 5000 people generated a grand total of 50 who were willing to follow through on actually leasing the car.)

mobiushky
05-12-2008, 03:51 PM
I threw out a conservative date for the last refinery because I was too lazy to look up exactly how long ago it was. What is funny is that Greenpeace really does run ships like the one depicted in Armageddon. My ex-wife's brother worked for Greenpeace and told we how horrible to the environment their ships are. Talk about your double standard huh? ;)

We also have shale oil reserves that are estimated to be greater than all the oil reserves in the Middle East. We started processing it last time oil hit a new record several decades ago. Then OPEC increased production (purposefully to derail this) and the price dropped to a level that didn't make it feasible to go after the shale oil.

There is no way it wouldn't be feasible to go after that shale oil now and even IF it were possible (I don't think they have enough control with the production/drilling/pumping already near capacity) for OPEC to create a price like they did before then we would get the lower prices again anyway.

Why no one is going after the shale oil now or even talking about it is beyond me. :mad:

I figured that was a ballpark date. Being as I work in the Energy Sector, I have pretty rapid access to a lot of information regarding power plants and oil and gas plants. There is rumor that Chevron is seeking to build the first grass roots oil refinery in the US since 1976. But of course environmental groups are fighting it every step of the way.

Consider this. Everyone complains about record profits for oil companies, but let me ask this, what exactly are they supposed to do with those profits? Can't build new refineries in the US. Can't put money into drilling in the US. Can't fund geological surveys of US deposits. There is nothing in the US they can put that profit back into. So where does it go? Out of the country to fund oil drilling and refining elsewhere. Record profits would be no big deal if those profits resulted in jobs and money back into the economy.

As for Shale Oil, it costs too much to fight and eventually lose to environmental activists to even begin the process. Why start when you are nearly destined to failure and loss of money?

mshulman
05-12-2008, 05:53 PM
PS. - My truck gets 15-16 MPG (6.0 liter V8). My car only got 25MPG in a 4 cylinder. Not much of a real savings....

Imagine the reduction in oil usage though if everyone who drove a 15-16mpg vehicle started getting 10mpg more tomorrow?

Demand would drop dramatically and prices would come down a lot too.

mshulman
05-12-2008, 05:54 PM
Consider this. Everyone complains about record profits for oil companies, but let me ask this, what exactly are they supposed to do with those profits? Can't build new refineries in the US. Can't put money into drilling in the US. Can't fund geological surveys of US deposits. There is nothing in the US they can put that profit back into. So where does it go? Out of the country to fund oil drilling and refining elsewhere. Record profits would be no big deal if those profits resulted in jobs and money back into the economy.


What they should do is invest it in finding alternatives for oil. If they were smart, they'd look at their future and realize oil won't be used forever. The kinds of profits they are making, they could start up their own car company and sell alternative fuel vehicles only.

kuroman09
05-12-2008, 06:00 PM
I think mine will go toward my new 9th Gen Pioneer Kuro PRO-151FD!!!:banana: :yippee:

mobiushky
05-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Imagine the reduction in oil usage though if everyone who drove a 15-16mpg vehicle started getting 10mpg more tomorrow?

Demand would drop dramatically and prices would come down a lot too.

And everyone would be stuck with small vehicles that don't fit their families. Unless you plan to drop the price of the Suburban Hybrid from $60k to something more affordable? It's not about MPG it's about $$$. Even at $4/gallon, it's the most cost effective, efficient method of transportation available. The problem is, anything other than gasoline requires a pretty significant reduction in efficiency and therefore increase in cost. Make it cheaper than gas and you will see people turning around. Even E85 sounds great, but you end up spending about the same in fuel because E85 MPG is worse than gasoline.

What they should do is invest it in finding alternatives for oil. If they were smart, they'd look at their future and realize oil won't be used forever. The kinds of profits they are making, they could start up their own car company and sell alternative fuel vehicles only.

That is an assumption. So called "Fossil" fuels are going to be around for as long as there are people. Or at least the resources to make it. The assumption is that it takes "millions" of years to make oil when in fact it's not really that long.* Oil companies have no incentive to invest in anything other than oil. Essentially you are asking them to dump loads of money into something that will end up losing them money in the long run. How smart is that? Big companies are not scared by the propganda tactics of the "green" movement and realize that it's all based on questionable science anyway. Being "green" is not an incentive.

Further, when someone does develop an "alternative" to oil (E85) it causes hardship on the rest of the economy. Have you noticed the price of milk? Beef? Anything related to corn? Famers can sell the corn for E85 at a higher price so the feed industry suffers. Hopefully that will balance out as more farmers look to corn. But early science on E85 says it's actually worse than gasoline in that the exhaust gasses are not just pollution, but actual poison. Stanford did a study on the long term effects of E85 and concluded that ozone related deaths and cancer rates could rise with large scale adoption of E85. Remember that some of the exhaust gasses of E85 are formaldehyde, acetylaldehyde, butadiene, and benzene.

*Oil companies have done some investigation and found that you can actually do it with temperature and pressure in as little as one day. There has yet to be found an oil field where the oil is not under extreme pressure already.

MikeRox
05-13-2008, 04:37 AM
What they should do is invest it in finding alternatives for oil. If they were smart, they'd look at their future and realize oil won't be used forever. The kinds of profits they are making, they could start up their own car company and sell alternative fuel vehicles only.

I believe they are investing in other kinds of energy sources, however they're also boxing very clever and keeping it all "top secret" as they don't want to actually have to use/launch any alternative sources unless they have to.

dangerdoc
05-13-2008, 06:45 AM
What they should do is invest it in finding alternatives for oil. If they were smart, they'd look at their future and realize oil won't be used forever. The kinds of profits they are making, they could start up their own car company and sell alternative fuel vehicles only.

The dirty little secret is that if alternative energy were profitable, there would be no need to fund it, people would be fighting to invest their money.

Solar and wind cannot provide more that a fraction of our electricity needs because it cannot be economically stored.

Unless there is a dramatically more efficient replacement for the internal combustion engine (which actually may be coming), there is just not enough biomass to make biofuel feasable.

If there is a viable replacement for oil, the oil producing countries will start dumping their oil for two reasons. First, they want to sell their product while there is a market and second, to drive down energy prices to kill the alternative in its infancy.

mobiushky
05-13-2008, 08:57 AM
The dirty little secret is that if alternative energy were profitable, there would be no need to fund it, people would be fighting to invest their money.

Solar and wind cannot provide more that a fraction of our electricity needs because it cannot be economically stored.

Unless there is a dramatically more efficient replacement for the internal combustion engine (which actually may be coming), there is just not enough biomass to make biofuel feasable.

If there is a viable replacement for oil, the oil producing countries will start dumping their oil for two reasons. First, they want to sell their product while there is a market and second, to drive down energy prices to kill the alternative in its infancy.

If looking economically at Solar power, there is no economy to it. It is only loss. I actually designed a solar collection system for a Federal Government building in Arizona. As part of the "green" inititive, they were required by law to incorporate some kind of alternative energy source. The choice was Solar. Long story short, the system cost them nearly $60,000 to install on a building that was roughly the size of a large house. In peak sunlight on a cloudless day in the middle of the summer, it will generate roughly 1500kW. About enough to power a coffee pot. But only after noon, and only for about 4 months out of the year. Average, I'd say it will generate more like 600W if you're lucky. At that rate, it would take the average person, on the order of 1666 years to pay back the $60,000 price tag assuming about 4 useful hours a day and 150 days out of the year. That's very conservative too.

You are absolutely correct. In money drives everything. If they make it cheaper, it will take off.

dontknowjack
05-13-2008, 11:42 AM
How did you receive your money? Did it go straight to your bank account or did it come through your mail? I heard some will be getting it straight to their bank account.

Mase
05-13-2008, 11:53 AM
How did you receive your money? Did it go straight to your bank account or did it come through your mail? I heard some will be getting it straight to their bank account.

Depends on how you filed or got your return.. If you recieved your tax return through direct deposit that is how your Stimulus will come if you got your refund mailed then that is how your Stimulus will come..

PFC5
05-13-2008, 11:54 AM
How did you receive your money? Did it go straight to your bank account or did it come through your mail? I heard some will be getting it straight to their bank account.

If you did direct deposit of your return refund check then that is how you will receive the rebate check as well. If you owed or did not do direct deposit, they will mail the check.

For direct deposit you will just have to watch your account as they do not send a notice it was done. As a bean counter, I would imagine MANY people will not even notice the money and complain they didn't get it based on how poorly they maintain their checkbooks. :lol:

neal77
05-13-2008, 11:57 AM
1500 kw to power a coffee pot? I think I would get rid of the coffee pot.

mobiushky
05-13-2008, 01:13 PM
1500 kw to power a coffee pot? I think I would get rid of the coffee pot.

Oops. I added the k accidentally!:o Thanks for the catch. I meant:

1500 Watts, or 1.5kW. Sometimes I type faster than I read.

awol
05-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Oops. I added the k accidentally!:o Thanks for the catch. I meant:

1500 Watts, or 1.5kW. Sometimes I type faster than I read.

See, and here I thought there was another example of the government being wasteful. I figured it was one of super-duper-fancy ones. :p

But in all seriousness, people have stated here that they won't be getting anything as they didn't qualify. For those who don't qualify because they don't pay enough taxes, this is likely because they don't earn enough. Or they're not reporting (Shame on you!!).

For those of you who didn't get one because you make too much... be grateful that you earn the amount of money that prevented you from getting it. Someone made the comment that they were one of the ones "footing" the bill. I think it's really sad that you feel that way. Makes me think you're not grateful for what you already have. And that's sad. Obviously, they're entitled to feel however they wish. But I truly hope that they are in fact grateful for what they have.

Frankly, I found it shocking that a Republican president would even allow such an idea without veto, and that it excluded those that already make more than X dollars per year. I'm even more shocked that it was "his" proposal. It was a very Democratic thing to do.

Ok, enough of the political mumbo jumbo. I'm spending mine on my BH's birthday and hopefully have enough left over for a new Yamaha AVR. :yippee:

mobiushky
05-13-2008, 03:16 PM
For those of you who didn't get one because you make too much... be grateful that you earn the amount of money that prevented you from getting it. Someone made the comment that they were one of the ones "footing" the bill. I think it's really sad that you feel that way. Makes me think you're not grateful for what you already have. And that's sad. Obviously, they're entitled to feel however they wish. But I truly hope that they are in fact grateful for what they have.

Frankly, I found it shocking that a Republican president would even allow such an idea without veto, and that it excluded those that already make more than X dollars per year. I'm even more shocked that it was "his" proposal. It was a very Democratic thing to do.

Ok, enough of the political mumbo jumbo. I'm spending mine on my BH's birthday and hopefully have enough left over for a new Yamaha AVR. :yippee:

See, here's the big problem with the tax system we have. It punishes success. It's easy to say "be grateful" but think about this. If I get a raise that ends up bumping me up to a new tax bracket, I will end up losing money because I have to pay an exponentially higher tax and in effect will have gotten a pay cut. Unless you have a way to shelter your income from taxes, it is extremely unmotivating to try to earn more in many cases.

The proposal was not really "Democratic" as it was really just a tax cut. It was our money to start with, now we just get more of it back. If it was a tax credit, that would be a democrat thing to do where only people who didn't actually pay taxes get a government hand out to redistribute our money.

dangerdoc
05-13-2008, 03:38 PM
See, and here I thought there was another example of the government being wasteful. I figured it was one of super-duper-fancy ones. :p

But in all seriousness, people have stated here that they won't be getting anything as they didn't qualify. For those who don't qualify because they don't pay enough taxes, this is likely because they don't earn enough. Or they're not reporting (Shame on you!!).

For those of you who didn't get one because you make too much... be grateful that you earn the amount of money that prevented you from getting it. Someone made the comment that they were one of the ones "footing" the bill. I think it's really sad that you feel that way. Makes me think you're not grateful for what you already have. And that's sad. Obviously, they're entitled to feel however they wish. But I truly hope that they are in fact grateful for what they have.

Frankly, I found it shocking that a Republican president would even allow such an idea without veto, and that it excluded those that already make more than X dollars per year. I'm even more shocked that it was "his" proposal. It was a very Democratic thing to do.

Ok, enough of the political mumbo jumbo. I'm spending mine on my BH's birthday and hopefully have enough left over for a new Yamaha AVR. :yippee:


That was me.

Am I grateful for what I have, yes, but the government acts like I should be grateful to them because they let me keep some of the money I am earning.

Here is an ugly fact, if the democrats pass the tax increases they are proposing, I am going to have to fire someone next year. I actually like the people working for me, the whole situation is rather depressing.

PFC5
05-13-2008, 04:02 PM
See, here's the big problem with the tax system we have. It punishes success. It's easy to say "be grateful" but think about this. If I get a raise that ends up bumping me up to a new tax bracket, I will end up losing money because I have to pay an exponentially higher tax and in effect will have gotten a pay cut. Unless you have a way to shelter your income from taxes, it is extremely unmotivating to try to earn more in many cases.

The proposal was not really "Democratic" as it was really just a tax cut. It was our money to start with, now we just get more of it back. If it was a tax credit, that would be a democrat thing to do where only people who didn't actually pay taxes get a government hand out to redistribute our money.

That is false and IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

You do NOT pay tax at whatever highest bracket you reach. You only pay the higher tax rate on the amount of income that reaches that bracket. I love when I hear about people saying they have less take home pay when they work overtime. It is just impossible for this to happen, when you are only paying a fraction of your gross. ;)

Stew4HD
05-13-2008, 04:22 PM
That is false and IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

You do NOT pay tax at whatever highest bracket you reach. You only pay the higher tax rate on the amount of income that reaches that bracket. I love when I hear about people saying they have less take home pay when they work overtime. It is just impossible for this to happen, when you are only paying a fraction of your gross. ;)

I have seen the overtime thing work... I worked one week of 15 hours OT and made x amount, worked another week of 20 hours OT and made just a few dollors more than if I had worked the 15, making 4 of the 5 ours a wash out/waste/gone. :(

PFC5
05-13-2008, 04:32 PM
I have seen the overtime thing work... I worked one week of 15 hours OT and made x amount, worked another week of 20 hours OT and made just a few dollors more than if I had worked the 15, making 4 of the 5 ours a wash out/waste/gone. :(

It CAN get close with payroll W/H brackets being much smaller compared to the actual tax brackets, but it can NEVER go to negative numbers in your NET PAY. Each pay period is multiplied to get a annual gross amount so when you have the "extra" W/H on those weeks (then divided back to the same divisor for the pay frequency), so in this instance you end up getting it back as a bigger refund on your tax return because you didn't reach that higher bracket consistently for the whole year. ;)

awol
05-13-2008, 04:34 PM
See, here's the big problem with the tax system we have. It punishes success. It's easy to say "be grateful" but think about this. If I get a raise that ends up bumping me up to a new tax bracket, I will end up losing money because I have to pay an exponentially higher tax and in effect will have gotten a pay cut. Unless you have a way to shelter your income from taxes, it is extremely unmotivating to try to earn more in many cases.

The proposal was not really "Democratic" as it was really just a tax cut. It was our money to start with, now we just get more of it back. If it was a tax credit, that would be a democrat thing to do where only people who didn't actually pay taxes get a government hand out to redistribute our money.

The reason I say it seems more Democratic is the fact that it excluded people that earn above a certain level. I'm not saying that the tax system isn't screwed up. Not in the least.

And I stand by my belief that EVERYONE, myself included, should be grateful for what they have. This should be a standard. The feeling that I've gotten from talking to people "offline" and hearing some of the sentiment here is that people who didn't get the money felt cheated by the government. But for the most part, most of those people didn't get it because they earn more than was allowable for the package. It's my belief that those people who earn that much would already have disposable income to "stimulate" the economy. This package allows "the rest of us" to have some as well. But from reading this thread, even that's not going to help much. A lot of us will be spending it on bills or gas.

Again, these are my beliefs and opinions. If you agree, great, if you don't, great.

awol
05-13-2008, 04:37 PM
That was me.

Am I grateful for what I have, yes, but the government acts like I should be grateful to them because they let me keep some of the money I am earning.

Here is an ugly fact, if the democrats pass the tax increases they are proposing, I am going to have to fire someone next year. I actually like the people working for me, the whole situation is rather depressing.

I'm glad to hear that you are grateful for what you have. And I completely agree with you that the situation our economy is in right now is rather depressing.

dangerdoc
05-13-2008, 05:34 PM
The reason I say it seems more Democratic is the fact that it excluded people that earn above a certain level. I'm not saying that the tax system isn't screwed up. Not in the least.

And I stand by my belief that EVERYONE, myself included, should be grateful for what they have. This should be a standard. The feeling that I've gotten from talking to people "offline" and hearing some of the sentiment here is that people who didn't get the money felt cheated by the government. But for the most part, most of those people didn't get it because they earn more than was allowable for the package. It's my belief that those people who earn that much would already have disposable income to "stimulate" the economy. This package allows "the rest of us" to have some as well. But from reading this thread, even that's not going to help much. A lot of us will be spending it on bills or gas.

Again, these are my beliefs and opinions. If you agree, great, if you don't, great.


Between paying both ends of the social security and medicare, fed and state taxes, half of the money I make is gone before I see it. Then add vehicle tax, real estate tax, fuel tax, sales tax, excise taxes, ect, at least 60% goes to the gov. Then I hear politicians talking about all of the great things they are going to do by taxing the rich well, there aren't enough CEO's to tax so I know that I'm the one they are going to hit again. Pardon me if I'm not that grateful to the government.

I don't feel cheated by the government because they didn't give me $600, I do feel cheated because they are taking more of my money and leaving me less to live on year after year.

An if you think they are taxing the millionaires, you are wrong, if you are a Kennedy with millions in a trust fund, you don't get taxed. If you educate yourself, work hard, start a business or just get a good job, look out, you will the "rich" person they are looking at.

mobiushky
05-13-2008, 06:52 PM
That is false and IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

You do NOT pay tax at whatever highest bracket you reach. You only pay the higher tax rate on the amount of income that reaches that bracket. I love when I hear about people saying they have less take home pay when they work overtime. It is just impossible for this to happen, when you are only paying a fraction of your gross. ;)
I know, I exagerrated for effect. Probably should have mentioned that.:cool:

But, what you DO get is a smaller raise than you expected. It can turn a 3% raise into a 2%. To me it is still punishing success.


The reason I say it seems more Democratic is the fact that it excluded people that earn above a certain level. I'm not saying that the tax system isn't screwed up. Not in the least.

And I stand by my belief that EVERYONE, myself included, should be grateful for what they have. This should be a standard. The feeling that I've gotten from talking to people "offline" and hearing some of the sentiment here is that people who didn't get the money felt cheated by the government. But for the most part, most of those people didn't get it because they earn more than was allowable for the package. It's my belief that those people who earn that much would already have disposable income to "stimulate" the economy. This package allows "the rest of us" to have some as well. But from reading this thread, even that's not going to help much. A lot of us will be spending it on bills or gas.

Again, these are my beliefs and opinions. If you agree, great, if you don't, great.

Don't get me wrong, I am entirely grateful for every single dime I get. I am grateful that I have the intelligence to have a good job that I enjoy and can make a good living at. For the first 6 years after I graduated and was married and had our kids, we were poverty level. My first child was paid for by medicare. We lived in a $300/month one bedroom apartment that we sometimes could not afford. I have been there. That was not my point, I hope you didn't think that.