High Def Forum
Thank you for visiting. This is our website archive. Please visit our main website by clicking the logo above.

What's The Better Investment for HDM?

kamspy
04-10-2008, 06:18 PM
I have a very modest little HT. 42" LG Plasma, Onkyo 601, 4 Bose InterAudio Bookshelf SA-2000 speakers, 2 Dual Center Channels, 1 Sony WA-2500 sub. (6.1 system)

Transports:
Toshiba HDA20
Sony PS3

Not much, but I don't have a huge budget.

I was wondering if a lossless AVR would be a big improvement over my current AVR. I've heard conflicting reports.

One side says that lossless brings the best out of lower end speakers,

The other side says that good speakers with a lossy AVR are better then low end speakers (like mine) with a lossless AVR.

Considering I only have around $1,000 to expand on my HT right now, should I go after the a lossless AVR, or save up for new speakers and keep the AVR I have now? I don't think $1,000 would be enough to get a new set of speakers that would make a big difference. Correct me if I'm wrong. The ones I'm looking at run about $600 a piece for the towers, and about $350 for bookshelfs and centers. Not to mention the $500 sub.

So, would it be a wise investment to go with a HDMI lossless capable AVR, or am I not going to hear a difference with my gear.

I'm sure other members are wondering the same thing. Any input from people with a good understanding of these things would be appreciated by myself, and other members with similar gear.

Recommendations on speakers in my price range and where to start are welcome.

Thanks

Farout777
04-10-2008, 06:38 PM
Kamspy, I'd go with a HDMI AVR, but you don't even have to get one with internal decoding if you don't want. The PS3 will soon decode DTS MA and your A20 already takes care of DTHD. Spend maybe $600 or so on the AVR and bank the $400 for later. Remember to get an AVR with enough HDMI inputs for your needs that are at least 1.2 compliant.:2cents

kamspy
04-10-2008, 06:42 PM
Kamspy, I'd go with a HDMI AVR, but you don't even have to get one with internal decoding if you don't want. The PS3 will soon decode DTS MA and your A20 already takes care of DTHD. Spend maybe $600 or so on the AVR and bank the $400 for later. Remember to get an AVR with enough HDMI inputs for your needs that are at least 1.2 compliant.:2cents

Thanks Farout!!

I'm eyeballing the Yamaha 663. It's HDMI 1.3 and decodes everything. $400 shipped! I know I don't need decoders, but for that price, it costs the same as the ones that can do the pre-decoded. Plus it has more power. We all love power:thumbsup:

So I'm leaning towards to AVR, but just checking to see if it's going to make a difference given my modest speakers. (Which sound damn fine to me!)

Farout777
04-10-2008, 06:54 PM
IMO, the Yamaha will do just fine as long as 2 HDMI inputs will do ya( one for the PS3 and one for the A20), cable or sat will do just fine with comp out.
It will allow you to hear for yourself right away if you want to upgrade speakers after hearing lossless.

kamspy
04-10-2008, 07:05 PM
IMO, the Yamaha will do just fine as long as 2 HDMI inputs will do ya( one for the PS3 and one for the A20), cable or sat will do just fine with comp out.
It will allow you to hear for yourself right away if you want to upgrade speakers after hearing lossless.

Good point. I'm running the same thread at AVS, with the same budget, yet they are still pointing me at $900 a piece speakers:eyecrazy

The Bose ones I have are very good for $50 a pair. The first pair my dad gave me when I was young and a bought a few more off ebay. I just picked up the 2 Dual center channels today. The Boses didn't make good center channels.

They're making fun of my little Bose speakers over there. But for $50 a pair, they cannot be beat.
Here's what they look like with the grills off.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj186/kamspy/bose2000.jpg

Farout777
04-10-2008, 07:12 PM
The most important thing is that YOU are happy!:thumbsup:

joey82083
04-10-2008, 09:46 PM
I'm about in the same predicament. My only concern is that my setup right now isn't the greatest symmetrically speaking, and I don't want to waste money on a receiver that does the DTHD or the like without being able to experience it the correct way. Right now my tv is at an angle in the corner of the room facing the middle "L" of a sectional couch. So until I get the go-ahead from the misses to set up a HT in the basement, I'm pretty much stuck with a Sony home theater in a box that is about 5-6 years old.

If anyone could comment on how DTHD sounds on a setup that is somewhat similar to mine I'm all ears.

Thanks,
Joey :hithere:

PFC5
04-10-2008, 10:51 PM
Moving up to better speakers can have the most effect on improving your sound IMO. The problem you have with that Onkyo receiver is that it is a "bright" receiver which means you would need warm speakers to work well with that receiver. If you buy new speakers to mate well with the Onkyo's bright output, then if you later want to update the receiver you will need another receiver that tends to be bright to get the best sound from those warm speakers. It would create a situation where you might end up needing new speakers yet again, which is WHY I suggest neutral receivers like Yamaha, Denon, or the Pioneer receivers.

Yamaha & Denon receivers tend to be neutral sounding and form a excellent base for later upgrading the speakers, but I think those Bose speakers are not up to the task either. I doubt you would get the full benefit of lossless with them. I do not mean to offend you about those speakers as for the price you got them for it was a fantastic bargain IMO. Bose just do not cut it for TRUE sound reproduction as there have been countless studies done all over the net.

WHere does that leave you Kamspy? I would say get the Yamaha despite better speakers possibly having a better immediate impact on improved SQ just so you have a good "base" to work off of.

Hope this helps!

kamspy
04-10-2008, 10:59 PM
Moving up to better speakers can have the most effect on improving your sound IMO. The problem you have with that Onkyo receiver is that it is a "bright" receiver which means you would need warm speakers to work well with that receiver. If you buy new speakers to mate well with the Onkyo's bright output, then if you later want to update the receiver you will need another receiver that tends to be bright to get the best sound from those warm speakers. It would create a situation where you might end up needing new speakers yet again, which is WHY I suggest neutral receivers like Yamaha, Denon, or the Pioneer receivers.

Yamaha & Denon receivers tend to be neutral sounding and form a excellent base for later upgrading the speakers, but I think those Bose speakers are not up to the task either. I doubt you would get the full benefit of lossless with them. I do not mean to offend you about those speakers as for the price you got them for it was a fantastic bargain IMO. Bose just do not cut it for TRUE sound reproduction as there have been countless studies done all over the net.

WHere does that leave you Kamspy? I would say get the Yamaha despite better speakers possibly having a better immediate impact on improved SQ just so you have a good "base" to work off of.

Hope this helps!

Thanks PFC:hithere:

No offense taken about the ol Bose's. I'm not trying to pass them off as anything other than value speakers. But it puts me in a position of having to make a major speaker upgrade. I've looked at an axiom model that looks to fit my price range. But I agree that the Yammy is the first thing. I can build from that.

Ever heard of the Fluance speakers that use to be advertised on this site? They want $250 for a 5 speaker set that includes two big ol towers. Do you know anything about the quality of these? Would they be along the lines of KLH, or better?

Check out this link and tell me if you think they're worth the $300.
http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html

Consider that I won't be able to afford a "high end" speaker set up for years. I'm working on finishing paying off my student loans now (finally) and then saving up for a big family vacation. The next order of business would be a 65"+ TV or maybe a PJ. So a $4,000 set of speakers is waaaaaaaaaay off for me. Check out the link and tell me what you think.

PFC5
04-10-2008, 11:08 PM
I remember talking with someone online who owned Fluance speakers and asked him about them. He did like them and thought they were a excellent budget speaker.

I have never heard them myself so I couldn't say yeah or nay with much confidence TBH.

You might want to check out these speakers which would mate well with that Yamaha receiver:

http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.php?brand=1

These are very similar in sound to the Klipsch speakers at a lower price. There have even been comparisons done for them, and I CAN personally recommend Klipsch speakers as long as they are not mated to a bright receiver like Onkyo. ;)

Check them out. Scratch that. They are too much money for your budget.

EDIT:

Check the Klipsch speakers out at Vanns here:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/brand.jsp

No direct link to the Klipsch section, but click on speakers then in the brand field near the top choose Klipsch and check out the following:

SC-1 Center channel on sale for $140.00
SS-1 Surround pair on sale for $200.00
KSW-10 Sub on sale for $200.00
SF-1 floor on sale for $130.00 each x 2 = 260.00

That is $800.00 on sale for a 5.1 system. That would put you $200.00 over budget, but you can call and get them to give you a better PACKAGE price I am sure. I did this for a friend of mine when he was looking for new speakers. ;)

Mase
04-11-2008, 08:15 AM
I would go with the Yamaha for now since for the price you dont wanna miss out and you get lossless audio... That is what roughly $400 shipped that leaves $600 for speakers(if your working with a 1k budget). I would say upgrade peice by piece for the speakers and start with fronts that would pair well with Yamaha..

Klipsch are great for many reasons, they are easy to drive, if your into bass they provide plenty and for me I enjoy their tractix horns..
For the price PFC5 listed the SF-1s are not bad at all, but if you could I would try and look for their bigger brother SF-2 dual 6 1/2". But I guess that all depends on how you look at it, for me I rather buy big so I dont have to upgrade later (buying big doesnt mean a lot $$$)

Or scenario #2 go with the SF-1s and than look for the matching Center channel and that leaves you with a sub to upgrade as rears imo are not that important and your old Bose fronts will do fine until your ready... This would put you at $400 for the fronts and center and $400 for the AVR = $800 total which you could find a sale on a Klipsch sub like PFC5 listed and you would be at your goal of $1000 and you would have yourself a damn good system..

As for Fluance, I have never heard them personally but the things I have heard from owners did not make me wanna run out and start suggesting them to others.. I would go with a sat system like Quintet II from Klipsch before I went with Fluance to be honest.. But if they have a 30 day return police like most internet direct companies do you can see for yourself....

kamspy
04-15-2008, 12:01 AM
Found some speakers!!!!

Now what's the better choice:

JBL cf120 floor standing

or

First Gen Paradigm Titan Bookshelfs

both are the same price.

Mase
04-15-2008, 08:27 AM
Read this on the JBLs, A lot of peer reviews. From the looks of it, it is a good speaker but with all good speakers there are trade offs..

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/jbl/floorstanding-speakers/PRD_120960_1594crx.aspx



Now if you can get both at the same price, I myself am partial to Paradigm so that would be my choice.. The Titan has Performance and aesthetics imo...

On the upside both are easy to drive and are not really power hungry, but remember Paradigm is a really flat speaker which means it does not add colour to what you hear unlike many other brands.

kamspy
04-15-2008, 09:04 AM
Read this on the JBLs, A lot of peer reviews. From the looks of it, it is a good speaker but with all good speakers there are trade offs..

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/jbl/floorstanding-speakers/PRD_120960_1594crx.aspx



Now if you can get both at the same price, I myself am partial to Paradigm so that would be my choice.. The Titan has Performance and aesthetics imo...

On the upside both are easy to drive and are not really power hungry, but remember Paradigm is a really flat speaker which means it does not add colour to what you hear unlike many other brands.

I checked out the same review. Sounds good to me.

BTW, both are $50 a pair, and I can't find anything on first gen Paradigms. From the look of the pictures they seem to be pretty old. About the same age as the speakers I have now. I'm going to listen to the JBLs this weekend. I think those might be better for me because they seem to be full range. All I have now are bookshelfs.

Also, sub question. I found a Velodyne 10" for $150. Now the sub I have now sounds good. Nice and tight. What do higher end subs do better then lower end subs? Are they just deeper, or what?

dangerdoc
04-15-2008, 09:09 AM
I have a very modest little HT. 42" LG Plasma, Onkyo 601, 4 Bose InterAudio Bookshelf SA-2000 speakers, 2 Dual Center Channels, 1 Sony WA-2500 sub. (6.1 system)

Transports:
Toshiba HDA20
Sony PS3

Not much, but I don't have a huge budget.

I was wondering if a lossless AVR would be a big improvement over my current AVR. I've heard conflicting reports.

One side says that lossless brings the best out of lower end speakers,

The other side says that good speakers with a lossy AVR are better then low end speakers (like mine) with a lossless AVR.

Considering I only have around $1,000 to expand on my HT right now, should I go after the a lossless AVR, or save up for new speakers and keep the AVR I have now? I don't think $1,000 would be enough to get a new set of speakers that would make a big difference. Correct me if I'm wrong. The ones I'm looking at run about $600 a piece for the towers, and about $350 for bookshelfs and centers. Not to mention the $500 sub.

So, would it be a wise investment to go with a HDMI lossless capable AVR, or am I not going to hear a difference with my gear.

I'm sure other members are wondering the same thing. Any input from people with a good understanding of these things would be appreciated by myself, and other members with similar gear.

Recommendations on speakers in my price range and where to start are welcome.

Thanks

I would vote for good speakers. I'm on about my 7th receiver since college. I still have my original book shelf speakers (BW's from the 80's). I still use them in my study. 5 of those receivers either went to good will or the land fill.

A good set of speakers will sound good with an old receiver. With bad speakers, it really doesn't matter how good new your receiver is. I haven't listened to your speakers but I haven't heard a Bose system with good frequency response yet.

I wouldn't recommend specific speakers because what sounds great to me would not be your favorite. Go listen and enjoy.

If your sub is good, you could do well with bookshelf speakers. With some shopping around you should be able to get good speakers within your budget.

Harry Seldon
04-15-2008, 09:18 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Synergy-Quintet-II-Theater/dp/B0007VZUGQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208272194&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-KSW-12-Synergy-440Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0009KIQNO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208272263&sr=1-2

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5002/MARANTZ/SR5002-XM-Ready-Surround-Sound-Receiver/1.html

The above are my suggestions. It's a little over your budget, but will sound great, especially if you like a nice warm sound.

kamspy
04-15-2008, 09:22 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Synergy-Quintet-II-Theater/dp/B0007VZUGQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208272194&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-KSW-12-Synergy-440Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0009KIQNO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208272263&sr=1-2

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5002/MARANTZ/SR5002-XM-Ready-Surround-Sound-Receiver/1.html

The above are my suggestions. It's a little over your budget, but will sound great, especially if you like a nice warm sound.

So that Marantz will pass decoded advanced audio codecs via HDMI?

Harry Seldon
04-15-2008, 09:25 AM
So that Marantz will pass decoded advanced audio codecs via HDMI?

Yes, it will pass but not decode them.

kamspy
04-15-2008, 09:29 AM
Yes, it will pass but not decode them.

That's fine. Nice price. My transports decode everything, so no worries there.

Harry Seldon
04-15-2008, 09:33 AM
That's fine. Nice price. My transports decode everything, so no worries there.

What I suggested is pretty close to my set-up. I used to use Klipsch KLF-30's for fronts, a C-7 for the center, and KLF-10's for rears, all full range speakers. The quintets have been a pleasant surprise.:)

Mase
04-15-2008, 10:22 AM
I checked out the same review. Sounds good to me.

BTW, both are $50 a pair, and I can't find anything on first gen Paradigms. From the look of the pictures they seem to be pretty old. About the same age as the speakers I have now. I'm going to listen to the JBLs this weekend. I think those might be better for me because they seem to be full range. All I have now are bookshelfs.

Also, sub question. I found a Velodyne 10" for $150. Now the sub I have now sounds good. Nice and tight. What do higher end subs do better then lower end subs? Are they just deeper, or what?

What is model # of the Velodyne in question? What size room is this going in also? Depending on how large of a room you are in you may need something a bit larger to really pressurize the room so you can hear/feel the full effects of the sub.. Even a bad sub can sound good if placed right and in the right sized room..

I would First decide which fronts you are going to get though, then you can start looking for a sub. You want your sub to compliment your fronts i.e. filling in the frequencies your fronts can not hit or hit well without roll off.. If you are going with a more full range set of fronts I would suggest a sub that can really dig deep at 25hz and less..

Velodyne makes a nice budget sub but depending on which one it might not go much lower than 30hz in a normal room enviroment. Most mfgr's numbers are from an anechoic chamber and thus are not really accurate for the real world..

kamspy
04-15-2008, 10:25 AM
What is model # of the Velodyne in question? What size room is this going in also? Depending on how large of a room you are in you may need something a bit larger to really pressurize the room so you can hear/feel the full effects of the sub.. Even a bad sub can sound good if placed right and in the right sized room..

I would First decide which fronts you are going to get though, then you can start looking for a sub. You want your sub to compliment your fronts i.e. filling in the frequencies your fronts can not hit or hit well without roll off.. If you are going with a more full range set of fronts I would suggest a sub that can really dig deep at 25hz and less..

Velodyne makes a nice budget sub but depending on which one it might not go much lower than 30hz in a normal room enviroment. Most mfgr's numbers are from an anechoic chamber and thus are not really accurate for the real world..

I've got a rather small room and the Sony I have compresses it really well. The floor shakes upstairs when its on at normal volume levels.

My research has led to picking up the JBLs tonight. I'll report back. My only concern is that they have really big woofers. I don't want to get too much bass in the soundfield.

Mase
04-15-2008, 10:36 AM
I've got a rather small room and the Sony I have compresses it really well. The floor shakes upstairs when its on at normal volume levels.

My research has led to picking up the JBLs tonight. I'll report back. My only concern is that they have really big woofers. I don't want to get too much bass in the soundfield.

Well I would not let my fronts handle too much of the bass, I would set them to small or maybe medium(in Onkyos case 80hz-120hz).. I rather have clean mid bass and accurate highs coming from my fronts than just bass alone.. Leave the bass to the subwoofer.. The more bass that you let your fronts handle will muddy your mids and highs...

kamspy
04-15-2008, 10:41 AM
Well I would not let my fronts handle too much of the bass, I would set them to small or maybe medium(in Onkyos case 80hz-120hz).. I rather have clean mid bass and accurate highs coming from my fronts than just bass alone.. Leave the bass to the subwoofer.. The more bass that you let your fronts handle will muddy your mids and highs...

I've got my Onkyo set to small and 80Hz crossover. Shouldn't be a problem.

Mase
04-15-2008, 10:46 AM
I've got my Onkyo set to small and 80Hz crossover. Shouldn't be a problem.

All there's left to do is get it all hooked up to that new Yamaha 663 and enjoy :thumbsup:

kamspy
04-16-2008, 05:56 PM
The Bose's have gone into retirement. They'll likely make it to the bedroom when I get a new AVR so the Onkyo can go up there.

I'm the proud owner of a pair of JBL cf120 Floor Standing (mini?) towers, and a pair of Paradigm Titan bookshelfs, and a Velodyne ct-100 sub. Total price? $180. Thank you Craig's list.

Now I'm a 6.2 man.

Farout777
04-16-2008, 06:52 PM
Now I'm a 6.2 man.

Me too.......... Oh,,,,,,, I thought you ment 6' 2"........me bad!:D

kamspy
04-16-2008, 06:59 PM
Me too.......... Oh,,,,,,, I thought you ment 6' 2"........me bad!:D

6'6 man.

6.2 audio:D

Had to pick up a sub splitter:D couldn't just let it sit there knowing I could use it.

btw

IT SOUNDS FRICKIN AWESOME!!!!!! Thanks for the advice everybody!

Farout777
04-16-2008, 07:02 PM
6'6 man.

6.2 audio:D

Had to pick up a sub splitter:D couldn't just let it sit there knowing I could use it.

btw

IT SOUNDS FRICKIN AWESOME!!!!!! Thanks for the advice everybody!

I plan on doing the same in the near future, been jonesin' for a new sub.

PFC5
04-16-2008, 07:42 PM
6'6 man.

6.2 audio:D

Had to pick up a sub splitter:D couldn't just let it sit there knowing I could use it.

btw

IT SOUNDS FRICKIN AWESOME!!!!!! Thanks for the advice everybody!

Does it sound better than the Bose speakers?

kamspy
04-16-2008, 07:56 PM
Does it sound better than the Bose speakers?

Yes. There's a very noticeable difference, but honestly not as much as the elitists at AVS led me to believe there would be. I was expecting night and day but got dawn and dusk. I am very happy with the purchases though. I've only got to watch a one BD so far with them all hooked up, so I may notice even more of a difference after more listening. I think the big woofers on the JBLs are giving me too much bass and muddying things up, I'll try to tweak my AVR. Right now I have bass and treble set to zero with all the DSP stuff turned off, cross over set to 80Hz and speakers set to small. Maybe I'll turn down to fronts a few db or tweak a few knobs on the Velodyne.

I never thought Bose was a great brand, I just picked up matching pairs because I already had the first ones I got for free from my dad waaaaay back in the day. I wasn't trying to promote them in my sig, I was just being honest. In fact, I was a little embarrassed to have them there for all to see. I'd never pay retail for anything Bose, nor do I endorse the brand.

I just had no idea I could get JBLs, Velodyne and Paradigms so cheap! I paid $180 for everything I got and it's all in great condition!

This was my first time ever checking out Craig's List. I ended up selling a bunch of old cell phones, car audio gear and digital cameras in the process, so I actually cleaned out my CE junk drawer and ended up getting the speakers for free.:D

PFC5
04-16-2008, 08:26 PM
Yes. There's a very noticeable difference, but honestly not as much as the elitists at AVS led me to believe there would be. I was expecting night and day but got dawn and dusk. I am very happy with the purchases though. I've only got to watch a one BD so far with them all hooked up, so I may notice even more of a difference after more listening. I think the big woofers on the JBLs are giving me too much bass and muddying things up, I'll try to tweak my AVR. Right now I have bass and treble set to zero with all the DSP stuff turned off, cross over set to 80Hz and speakers set to small. Maybe I'll turn down to fronts a few db or tweak a few knobs on the Velodyne.

I never thought Bose was a great brand, I just picked up matching pairs because I already had the first ones I got for free from my dad waaaaay back in the day. I wasn't trying to promote them in my sig, I was just being honest. In fact, I was a little embarrassed to have them there for all to see. I'd never pay retail for anything Bose, nor do I endorse the brand.

I just had no idea I could get JBLs, Velodyne and Paradigms so cheap! I paid $180 for everything I got and it's all in great condition!

This was my first time ever checking out Craig's List. I ended up selling a bunch of old cell phones, car audio gear and digital cameras in the process, so I actually cleaned out my CE junk drawer and ended up getting the speakers for free.:D

I think the night and day difference they were referring to was IF you paid the same money that you would pay for a present day Bose system, but used that Bose cost to buy well just about anything else. It would have been night & day then. ;)

PS. I see you now are proud enough to display your equipment list. ;) :yippee:

kamspy
04-16-2008, 08:47 PM
I think the night and day difference they were referring to was IF you paid the same money that you would pay for a present day Bose system, but used that Bose cost to buy well just about anything else. It would have been night & day then. ;)

PS. I see you now are proud enough to display your equipment list. ;) :yippee:

I displayed it before. I just changed it to a horizontal look. It use to be listed vertical.

Just ran to BlockBuster to rent AVP-R. My local BB just started carrying BD and I think I'm the only one renting them.:lol:

Based on the reviews this should give my new set-up a proper work out. Hope I don't wake the family... Actually, they're use to it, and I don't really care since I'm the only one who has to wake up a 6AM:lol: ;)

kamspy
04-16-2008, 08:49 PM
I think the night and day difference they were referring to was IF you paid the same money that you would pay for a present day Bose system, but used that Bose cost to buy well just about anything else. It would have been night & day then. ;)

PS. I see you now are proud enough to display your equipment list. ;) :yippee:

Any tips on getting the "mud" sound out? I think the JBLs I bought are meant for a 2 channel stereo set-up. Maybe I'll up the crossover to 120Hz. The overall soundfield just sounds a bit heavier than it did before. The Paradigms sound really good. They're pretty old. The grills don't even come off!

PFC5
04-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Any tips on getting the "mud" sound out? I think the JBLs I bought are meant for a 2 channel stereo set-up. Maybe I'll up the crossover to 120Hz. The overall soundfield just sounds a bit heavier than it did before. The Paradigms sound really good. They're pretty old. The grills don't even come off!

Well, you might try turning up the crossover, AND slightly lowering the bass level on the receiver from the null (center) position. This might take away the muddiness some, but make the overall sound more harsh.

What I would change first though is turn off the LFE in the receiver so it does not send the LFE to the speakers at all and just sends it to the subs. That is more likely to solve the muddiness issue more than just changing the cross-over.

Changing the cross over only changes how high a frequency gets sent to the sub woofer anyway so if you have the bass going to the main speakers at all, it will just extend the muddiness to the next higher frequency. I personally like my bas very tight, and hate when I just hear a booming mess with the low frequencies.

kamspy
04-16-2008, 09:11 PM
Well, you might try turning up the crossover, AND slightly lowering the bass level on the receiver from the null (center) position. This might take away the muddiness some, but make the overall sound more harsh.

What I would change first though is turn off the LFE in the receiver so it does not send the LFE to the speakers at all and just sends it to the subs. That is more likely to solve the muddiness issue more than just changing the cross-over.

Changing the cross over only changes how high a frequency gets sent to the sub woofer anyway so if you have the bass going to the main speakers at all, it will just extend the muddiness to the next higher frequency. I personally like my bas very tight, and hate when I just hear a booming mess with the low frequencies.

I wouldn't call it a mess, but it's not as tight as it was. Maybe I got a bunk Velodyne. I'll tinker a bit. I always thought the crossover was for the non-sub speakers. I don't think my AVR has an setting to turn the LFE off to the other speakers. I'll have to check it out.

PFC5
04-16-2008, 09:23 PM
I wouldn't call it a mess, but it's not as tight as it was. Maybe I got a bunk Velodyne. I'll tinker a bit. I always thought the crossover was for the non-sub speakers. I don't think my AVR has an setting to turn the LFE off to the other speakers. I'll have to check it out.

If you still have the Onkyo then it might not, but i believe it might still have it. If you have that new Yamaha receiver I am SURE it does have such a setting.

Either way check it out and try what I suggested.

kamspy
04-16-2008, 09:25 PM
If you still have the Onkyo then it might not, but i believe it might still have it. If you have that new Yamaha receiver I am SURE it does have such a setting.

Either way check it out and try what I suggested.

Still got the Onkyo. Trying my best to hold off on the Yammy for a little longer.

PFC5
04-16-2008, 09:28 PM
Still got the Onkyo. Trying my best to hold off on the Yammy for a little longer.

Just DO ITTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

I think when you change to the Yamaha, you are going to hear a warmer sound, and tighter bass. Why wait for that since you essentially got the speakers for nothing? ;)

kamspy
04-16-2008, 09:36 PM
Just DO ITTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

I think when you change to the Yamaha, you are going to hear a warmer sound, and tighter bass. Why wait for that since you essentially got the speakers for nothing? ;)

Wifey. Even though the speakers were free, I did have to get her a pink Sony CyberShot 7.3 Mega Pixel digi cam to balance the universe. :lol:

But that was only $75 on Craig's List!!

:eyecrazy :eyecrazy It's worse than Amazon:eyecrazy :eyecrazy

I'm already hooked bartering with these people!!!! Madness I tell you!

I just got my wisdom teeth yanked after putting it off for ten years and Clarion being Japanese owned doesn't give the American lines the best dental benefits.

I keep telling myself it will still be there. It's hard. Very hard. But it does help that I don't like buying gear through mail-order. If I buy the Yammy from the site that's selling it for $400 shipped, it will be the first piece of gear I've ever bought online. I worry about UPS. I worked at a hub for a few months in college and we would intentionally slam the packages marked fragile because they only paid us $7 an hour and worked us like dogs. I think I have bad shipping karma because of it.

I like to be able to return something to a store that day if it's not working properly.

PFC5
04-16-2008, 09:46 PM
Wifey. Even though the speakers were free, I did have to get her a pink Sony CyberShot 7.3 Mega Pixel digi cam to balance the universe. :lol:

But that was only $75 on Craig's List!!

:eyecrazy :eyecrazy It's worse than Amazon:eyecrazy :eyecrazy

I'm already hooked bartering with these people!!!! Madness I tell you!

I just got my wisdom teeth yanked after putting it off for ten years and Clarion being Japanese owned doesn't give the American lines the best dental benefits.

I keep telling myself it will still be there. It's hard. Very hard. But it does help that I don't like buying gear through mail-order. If I buy the Yammy from the site that's selling it for $400 shipped, it will be the first piece of gear I've ever bought online. I worry about UPS. I worked at a hub for a few months in college and we would intentionally slam the packages marked fragile because they only paid us $7 an hour and worked us like dogs. I think I have bad shipping karma because of it.

I like to be able to return something to a store that day if it's not working properly.

I buy over half of my electronics online now if not more. Don't worry about it as receivers are not as fragile as DVD, CD, or BD players.
Just DO ITTTTT!!!!! You KNOW you want to so just indulge your self just this once and lay off the Orange Crush for a week. :lol:

kamspy
04-16-2008, 10:38 PM
I buy over half of my electronics online now if not more. Don't worry about it as receivers are not as fragile as DVD, CD, or BD players.
Just DO ITTTTT!!!!! You KNOW you want to so just indulge your self just this once and lay off the Orange Crush for a week. :lol:

*sigh*

Ships tomorrow. Let you guys know when it gets here.:o



:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

kamspy
04-16-2008, 10:46 PM
DAMN IT!!! DAMN IT!!! DAMN IT!!!!

Now I need another speaker!!!!!!

It's a 7.1 AVR and I'm not going to let that seventh output go to waste!!!

What now PFC? What NOW!!!;):p

Lee Stewart
04-16-2008, 11:37 PM
DAMN IT!!! DAMN IT!!! DAMN IT!!!!

Now I need another speaker!!!!!!

It's a 7.1 AVR and I'm not going to let that seventh output go to waste!!!

What now PFC? What NOW!!!;):p

Once you go to a 7.1 setup - you give up the ability to listen to 6.1 movies like X-Men The Last Stand (DTS-ES) (and others)

Here is a list of DTS-ES movies:

http://www.imdb.com/List?sound-mix=DTS-ES&&heading=15;DTS-ES

PFC5
04-16-2008, 11:43 PM
*sigh*

Ships tomorrow. Let you guys know when it gets here.:o



:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

DAMN IT!!! DAMN IT!!! DAMN IT!!!!

Now I need another speaker!!!!!!

It's a 7.1 AVR and I'm not going to let that seventh output go to waste!!!

What now PFC? What NOW!!!;):p

Was I THAT convincing, or did you just need a nudge to do what you wanted to do all along? :lol:

Congrats regardless. You are going to love it. :D

kamspy
04-16-2008, 11:54 PM
Once you go to a 7.1 setup - you give up the ability to listen to 6.1 movies like X-Men The Last Stand (DTS-ES) (and others)

Here is a list of DTS-ES movies:

http://www.imdb.com/List?sound-mix=DTS-ES&&heading=15;DTS-ES

Banana Plugs are my friend. Not long ago I didn't even like most 5.1 mixes and I'd pull the back two and go 3.1

I can do the same with 7.1 to get 6.1 right? I'd just have to move a speaker. Since I already have a bolt in the wall for my 6.2 set-up, I could allocate extra speaker wire on one of my rears, right?

Was I THAT convincing, or did you just need a nudge to do what you wanted to do all along? :lol:

Congrats regardless. You are going to love it. :D

Nudge, and the first 30 mins of AVP-R. That movie sucks, but the audio was a treat! I mean, that movie was awful. It was literally the darkest movie I have ever seen. My TV remote has a quick brightness changer, kinda like the channel and volume buttons but for brightness. First time I've ever had to use it. The new Pred-Alien seemed pretty cool, but the movie was so damn dark you never really get to see it!

So, what do you guys recommend I do about my need for a single speaker.

I'm think use my two mediocre center channel speakers for the back surrounds, and look for another steal on Craig's List for a good center.

Good thing I'm going back to welding. Lots of overtime there. Clarion barely got me 40 a week.

PFC5
04-17-2008, 12:17 AM
Banana Plugs are my friend. Not long ago I didn't even like most 5.1 mixes and I'd pull the back two and go 3.1

I can do the same with 7.1 to get 6.1 right? I'd just have to move a speaker. Since I already have a bolt in the wall for my 6.2 set-up, I could allocate extra speaker wire on one of my rears, right?



Nudge, and the first 30 mins of AVP-R. That movie sucks, but the audio was a treat! I mean, that movie was awful. It was literally the darkest movie I have ever seen. My TV remote has a quick brightness changer, kinda like the channel and volume buttons but for brightness. First time I've ever had to use it. The new Pred-Alien seemed pretty cool, but the movie was so damn dark you never really get to see it!

So, what do you guys recommend I do about my need for a single speaker.

I'm think use my two mediocre center channel speakers for the back surrounds, and look for another steal on Craig's List for a good center.

Good thing I'm going back to welding. Lots of overtime there. Clarion barely got me 40 a week.

I have two 7.1 receivers and I have used them both as only 6.2 systems.

Just plug the rear surround into the LEFT rear surround speaker output connection and go into the receiver setup and state that you only have ONE rear surround. It is that easy to set it up as a 6.1 receiver despite it being a 7.1 capable receiver. ;)