High Def Forum
Thank you for visiting. This is our website archive. Please visit our main website by clicking the logo above.

1080i to 1080p

supaflyz
10-23-2007, 10:49 PM
I have just bough a 70 inch lcd tv from sony. The only reason I bought it because my cousin sold it to me for $2000 and it was so big and only 2 years old. I know it came out in 2004 but right now its still over $5000. The model number is kdf-70xbr950. It has 1080i, 720p, and 420p. I was wondering is there any products or cable where I can upgrade it to 1080 p. I read somewhere on some magazine that there are some machine that let you do that but it was expensive. I try to search for it but no luck.

360kid
10-23-2007, 11:10 PM
Convert a 720p to a 1080p????

Sounds very fishy. Also, I think the hardware makes a set 720p or 1080p, not the programing on it. If someone here has a solution to make a 720p set magically transform into a 1080p set, I'll be very very very very very very surpirsed.

360kid
10-23-2007, 11:12 PM
Also, your cousin better have a reciept for that television. Posession of stolen goods is not route you need to go.

supaflyz
10-23-2007, 11:15 PM
Did I say my cousin stole it? Dont assume anything if I didnt mention anything like that in my thread.

360kid
10-23-2007, 11:18 PM
No need to get so defensive, your new here, your supafly, you just got a $5000 tv from your cuz for 2K. Just saying, if he's like a 4th cousin you may want to get the reciept from him...... if there is one.

Rick-F
10-24-2007, 08:26 AM
That set has a native display resolution of 1386 x 788. It will never display anything more and I do not think it will even accept a 1080P signal.
(I personally think the 788 is a misprint and should be 768.)

Quote from Tech Specs:
Video
Native Resolution : 720p
Display Resolution : 1386 x 788
Viewing Angle : Right/Left: 130 degrees, Up/Down: 60 degrees
Vertical Size : +7 to -7 (Wide Zoom and Zoom)
Vertical Center : +25 to -25 (Zoom) / +10 to -10 (Wide Zoom)

There are some TVs (i.e. Vizio VX series) that accept 1080P signals even though all the specifications and Vizio's website do NOT mention 1080P (only mention 1080i)-- try it and see . . . But you really are not going to see any real difference from a 1080i signal and a 1080P signal with a display that is only 1366X788.

daleb
10-24-2007, 09:16 AM
It is 1366X768.. it is commonly transposed. There have been a lot of misprints, even on manufacturer's websites.

supaflyz
10-24-2007, 10:13 AM
So it says 1080i but not really 1080i just 720p? Is there really much visual difference between 1080i plus 1080p? So is this tv bad since it only display 1366X788. Is there really much of a difference?

daleb
10-24-2007, 11:36 AM
So it says 1080i but not really 1080i just 720p? Is there really much visual difference between 1080i plus 1080p? So is this tv bad since it only display 1366X788. Is there really much of a difference?

In larger screen sizes 50"+, and with the top line BD or HD DVD players, as well as a top notch disk, most anyone can see an improvement with 1080p.

How much it's worth spending your money on, is something you have to judge with your own eyes and against how often you will take advantage of it.

supaflyz
10-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Yeah I have read about that for bigger screen size its more noticeable. Good idea as when I bought it I made the decision that its not that much of a difference and plus I'm a college student going into dental school so not a lot of money to spend. It was a bargain considering it stills go for over $5000. Guess 4 years later I have to upgrade to 1080p, but I've also read that most channels dont broadcast hd channels yet? The ones that has high def. the 1080p will only convert it to 1080i? Is there anyway I can watch dvd movies in 1080i?

BrianO
10-24-2007, 03:43 PM
It is 1366X768.. it is commonly transposed. There have been a lot of misprints, even on manufacturer's websites.

It was not only misprints in the screen resolution. The mistranscribed numbers were used in the calculation of the number of pixels that were reported in the product advertising. This error was made when the first Grand Wegas were released (in 2001 IIRC) and continued on subsequent models until about the time the A20 Grand Wegas were introduced.

mschupp
10-24-2007, 04:13 PM
Yeah I have read about that for bigger screen size its more noticeable. Good idea as when I bought it I made the decision that its not that much of a difference and plus I'm a college student going into dental school so not a lot of money to spend. It was a bargain considering it stills go for over $5000. Guess 4 years later I have to upgrade to 1080p, but I've also read that most channels dont broadcast hd channels yet? The ones that has high def. the 1080p will only convert it to 1080i? Is there anyway I can watch dvd movies in 1080i?

Your set is considered a 720p set (could call it 768p if you want). It can accept a 1080i or 720p high-def signal (as well as 480i and maybe 480p) but it will always scale the picture to 1366X768.

philips
11-03-2007, 08:42 PM
The Sony SXRD 7- inch XBR 1080p cost $5,000 brand new. How is it that a 1080i cost the same?

Steve A
11-03-2007, 09:32 PM
Your set is considered a 720p set (could call it 768p if you want). It can accept a 1080i or 720p high-def signal (as well as 480i and maybe 480p) but it will always scale the picture to 1366X768.
wrong. I have a KDF50WE655 from 2005 and the native resolution is 1080i. Quoting Sony's information that I printed from a PDF, my model has a "Hi-Scan 1080i Display." Since most HD broadcasts are done in 1080i, I have a great picture. Watching Blu-ray movies, the results are stunning although 1080p would be even better. However, 1080i is much better than 720p.

BrianO
11-03-2007, 10:14 PM
wrong. I have a KDF50WE655 from 2005 and the native resolution is 1080i. Quoting Sony's information that I printed from a PDF, my model has a "Hi-Scan 1080i Display." Since most HD broadcasts are done in 1080i, I have a great picture. Watching Blu-ray movies, the results are stunning although 1080p would be even better. However, 1080i is much better than 720p.

Either you have specified the wrong model number or you have completely misread and/or misunderstood the Sony information.

The KDF-50WE655 is an old "Grand Wega" LCD rear projection TV with a display resolution of 1366x768. While the TV can accept a 1080i signal, it can only display the signal progressively at the TV's native resolution of 1366 x768 after de-interlacing the signal and downscaling it. It cannot, under any circumstances, display more pixels than its display contains. It is a 720p (or 768p is you prefer) TV.

It definitely does not contain a "1080i Hi-Scan Display". These displays were only found in Sony CRT-based sets.

Steve A
11-04-2007, 03:46 PM
Either you have specified the wrong model number or you have completely misread and/or misunderstood the Sony information.

The KDF-50WE655 is an old "Grand Wega" LCD rear projection TV with a display resolution of 1366x768. While the TV can accept a 1080i signal, it can only display the signal progressively at the TV's native resolution of 1366 x768 after de-interlacing the signal and downscaling it. It cannot, under any circumstances, display more pixels than its display contains. It is a 720p (or 768p is you prefer) TV.

It definitely does not contain a "1080i Hi-Scan Display". These displays were only found in Sony CRT-based sets.
LOL! It sure does have 1080i as a native resolution. It is a Grand Wega and a whopping 2.5 years old. The model is KDF-50WE655 and the attached PDF was just scanned. Sorry about the quality. Your mouse should show a magnifying glass with a "+". Left clicking will enlarge and clarify the image. Daleb, feel free to step in here as I believe your LCD RP also has a1080i native resolution.

BrianO
11-04-2007, 05:07 PM
LOL! It sure does have 1080i as a native resolution. It is a Grand Wega and a whopping 2.5 years old. The model is KDF-50WE655 and the attached PDF was just scanned. Sorry about the quality. Your mouse should show a magnifying glass with a "+". Left clicking will enlarge and clarify the image. Daleb, feel free to step in here as I believe your LCD RP also has a1080i native resolution.

Perhaps, you should try reading the specs in the manual that came with your TV. It cannot show a 1080i signal at its full resolution because the 3 LCD panels (1 each for Red, Blue and Green) do not have enough pixels to do so. It has to downscale a 1080i signal to display it at the TV's native resolution which is not 1920x1080. (2,073,600 pixels or 6,220,800 dots if you count the red, blue and green separately as Sony did in their marketing hype at the time your model was introduced in 2004).

That marketing ad is just plain wrong. How the error ever got by the proof readers in the Sony Marketing Dept is a mystery. The "Hi-Scan 1080i Display" line is a misprint that is not supported by the specs shown on the second page of the blurb. It was a trademarked phrase to describe Sony's Hi Def CRT picture tubes and is totally out of place being used in the marketing specs of any "Grand Wega", none of which were CRT-based sets.

No Sony LCD RPTV carrying the now-discontinued "Grand Wega" name, including the KDF-xxWE655 series, ever had the ability show 1080 lines on the screen. The models before the A10 series (2005) had 768 line panels and later models were 720 line sets. The only Sony sets carrying the "Grand Wega" name that ever had 1080 line panels were SXRD sets. (The KDF-50WE655 is not an SXRD set.)

For the record, the very first Sony LCD RPTV's to have 1080 line panels are the E3000 series Bravia sets introduced about 2 months ago.

Your TV can only legitimately be referred to as, either;
a) a 720p display because that is the highest resolution HD format that it can show without downscaling before display, or
b) a 768p display because that is the number of display lines that it can show.

Steve A
11-04-2007, 06:46 PM
Perhaps, you should try reading the specs in the manual that came with your TV. It cannot show a 1080i signal at its full resolution because the 3 LCD panels (1 each for Red, Blue and Green) do not have enough pixels to do so. It has to downscale a 1080i signal to display it at the TV's native resolution which is not 1920x1080. (2,073,600 pixels or 6,220,800 dots if you count the red, blue and green separately as Sony did in their marketing hype at the time your model was introduced in 2004).

That marketing ad is just plain wrong. How the error ever got by the proof readers in the Sony Marketing Dept is a mystery. The "Hi-Scan 1080i Display" line is a misprint that is not supported by the specs shown on the second page of the blurb. It was a trademarked phrase to describe Sony's Hi Def CRT picture tubes and is totally out of place being used in the marketing specs of any "Grand Wega", none of which were CRT-based sets.

No Sony LCD RPTV carrying the now-discontinued "Grand Wega" name, including the KDF-xxWE655 series, ever had the ability show 1080 lines on the screen. The models before the A10 series (2005) had 768 line panels and later models were 720 line sets. The only Sony sets carrying the "Grand Wega" name that ever had 1080 line panels were SXRD sets. (The KDF-50WE655 is not an SXRD set.)

For the record, the very first Sony LCD RPTV's to have 1080 line panels are the E3000 series Bravia sets introduced about 2 months ago.

Your TV can only legitimately be referred to as, either;
a) a 720p display because that is the highest resolution HD format that it can show without downscaling before display, or
b) a 768p display because that is the number of display lines that it can show.

Well, you sound very knowledgable and Sony has been known to make errors of all sorts. This is indeed interesting because before I saw that PDF, I was curious that there was no information on the spec sheet about it being 1080i or 720p. The manual says nothing about it as well. I called Sony when I got the set in March of 2005 and was told it was 1080i by the "tech" who helped me. Now, my PS3 is set at 1080i, not 720p. Should that setting be readjusted? The picture is just great so I'm not sure if the TV just upscales to whatever the native resolution is. Well, I stand corrected!

BrianO
11-04-2007, 11:29 PM
Well, you sound very knowledgable and Sony has been known to make errors of all sorts. This is indeed interesting because before I saw that PDF, I was curious that there was no information on the spec sheet about it being 1080i or 720p. The manual says nothing about it as well. I called Sony when I got the set in March of 2005 and was told it was 1080i by the "tech" who helped me. Now, my PS3 is set at 1080i, not 720p. Should that setting be readjusted? The picture is just great so I'm not sure if the TV just upscales to whatever the native resolution is. Well, I stand corrected!

The "tech" probably meant that it could handle 1080i signals, which it can. But that has nothing to do with the set's native resolution which is defined by the number of pixels that can be displayed on the screen. (Even SD TV's with ATSC tuners, such as Sony's now-discontinued FS130 and FS170 CRT sets, can handle 1080i, but they are 480i displays). BTW, the manual does state the number of pixels.

As far as what resolution you should set your PS3's output to, try both 1080i and 720p, decide which one looks best to you and then use that setting. Your TV probably does a very good job with either setting because of its "Wega Engine" signal processing, but your eyes might prefer one over the other. You might even find that the best setting for the PS3 depends on the content: for example, 720p might be best for games while the 1080i setting might be best for BluRay discs. Experiment a bit to decide for yourself, but above all enjoy your TV because it is a good one. Don't let the 1080p fanatics spoil that enjoyment.

Steve A
11-05-2007, 05:25 AM
The "tech" probably meant that it could handle 1080i signals, which it can. But that has nothing to do with the set's native resolution which is defined by the number of pixels that can be displayed on the screen. (Even SD TV's with ATSC tuners, such as Sony's now-discontinued FS130 and FS170 CRT sets, can handle 1080i, but they are 480i displays). BTW, the manual does state the number of pixels.

As far as what resolution you should set your PS3's output to, try both 1080i and 720p, decide which one looks best to you and then use that setting. Your TV probably does a very good job with either setting because of its "Wega Engine" signal processing, but your eyes might prefer one over the other. You might even find that the best setting for the PS3 depends on the content: for example, 720p might be best for games while the 1080i setting might be best for BluRay discs. Experiment a bit to decide for yourself, but above all enjoy your TV because it is a good one. Don't let the 1080p fanatics spoil that enjoyment.
Thanks and yes, it continues to display a great picture-on the original lamp. At 50'', the pixels are very difficult to see. The image is luminous and film-like. I remember seeing 60" Hitachi LCD RPs and the pixels were very obvious. I was surprised to see Sony doing a 1080p LCD RP. Why bother, for a few hundred more there is SXRD. If I had to replace the set, which I hope not to for a few years at last, I would definately look at a flat panel LCD, however. My new receiver added the convenience of 3 HDMI inputs while keeping the 6.1 speaker arrangment the same so no new re-wiring. I have set the sound to 7.1 in settings and then let the receiver process it however it does that. Your information was very helpful. I'll leave the PSP at 1080i for now. Thanks:)

Steve A
12-23-2007, 09:08 PM
Either you have specified the wrong model number or you have completely misread and/or misunderstood the Sony information.

The KDF-50WE655 is an old "Grand Wega" LCD rear projection TV with a display resolution of 1366x768. While the TV can accept a 1080i signal, it can only display the signal progressively at the TV's native resolution of 1366 x768 after de-interlacing the signal and downscaling it. It cannot, under any circumstances, display more pixels than its display contains. It is a 720p (or 768p is you prefer) TV.

It definitely does not contain a "1080i Hi-Scan Display". These displays were only found in Sony CRT-based sets.

Jeez..here we go again. I have yet another question about my TV's resolution. My PS3 automatically detects 1080i as the best resolution for my TV to accept. Also, I downloaded (from the PlayStation Store) a Sony PS3 TV spot in 720p and it didn't look that great. I deleted it and downloaded the 1080p version and the picture was so much clearer and more crisp. So I have to admit I am a little baffled. Why would my PS3, when set to automatically detect maximum display resolution select 1080i if what you say is correct?
Thanks
Hey everyone, Hqppy Holidays!:)
Steve

rantanamo
12-23-2007, 10:05 PM
Bottom line is it will look good no matter what you throw at it. Many of these 1080p fanatics are number fanatics and don't really understand what the human eye can distinguish. 768 sets doing 1080i and 720p look damn good and display HDTV excellently as well. The folks at the AVS forum continue to test these sets side by side and they would tell you that your set will give you an incredibly beautiful picture. Don't let the 1080p fanboys make you feel like you have something inferior. Unless you ONLY watch Blu-Ray then you are not missing anything.

Steve A
12-23-2007, 11:35 PM
Bottom line is it will look good no matter what you throw at it. Many of these 1080p fanatics are number fanatics and don't really understand what the human eye can distinguish. 768 sets doing 1080i and 720p look damn good and display HDTV excellently as well. The folks at the AVS forum continue to test these sets side by side and they would tell you that your set will give you an incredibly beautiful picture. Don't let the 1080p fanboys make you feel like you have something inferior. Unless you ONLY watch Blu-Ray then you are not missing anything.
Blu-ray looks pretty damn good too on my 2 3/4 year old Grand Wega. Guess 1080p is ideal but my TV displays Blu-ray just fine. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

BrianO
12-23-2007, 11:59 PM
Jeez..here we go again. I have yet another question about my TV's resolution. My PS3 automatically detects 1080i as the best resolution for my TV to accept. Also, I downloaded (from the PlayStation Store) a Sony PS3 TV spot in 720p and it didn't look that great. I deleted it and downloaded the 1080p version and the picture was so much clearer and more crisp. So I have to admit I am a little baffled. Why would my PS3, when set to automatically detect maximum display resolution select 1080i if what you say is correct?
Thanks
Hey everyone, Hqppy Holidays!:)
Steve

The PS3 is simply detecting the maximum resolution signal that the TV can accept as input via the connection that you have made. For your TV that is 1080i. The PS3 has no way of detecting the actual screen resolution, which for your TV is 1366x768. Your TV's Wega Engine circuitry takes whatever signal it receives and converts it to be compatible with its screen's resolution.

Steve A
12-24-2007, 06:38 AM
The PS3 is simply detecting the maximum resolution signal that the TV can accept as input via the connection that you have made. For your TV that is 1080i. The PS3 has no way of detecting the actual screen resolution, which for your TV is 1366x768. Your TV's Wega Engine circuitry takes whatever signal it receives and converts it to be compatible with its screen's resolution.
So, downloading the 1080p TV commercial gives better results than the 720p version because 1080i is a better resolution than 720p? Thanks Brian...

Loves2Watch
12-24-2007, 09:53 AM
Steve, it still sounds as if you are a little confused so here goes. Your TV is 768 resolution not 1080. Now since 768 is higher than 720, that 1080p commercial you downloaded would look better than a 720 commercial because at 720 your TV would have to up-scale whereas with the 1080 signal the TV down scales the higher resolution material to 768.

BrianO
12-24-2007, 05:10 PM
So, downloading the 1080p TV commercial gives better results than the 720p version because 1080i is a better resolution than 720p? Thanks Brian...

Your TV won't accept a 1080p signal.

Steve A
12-25-2007, 02:06 AM
Your TV won't accept a 1080p signal.

yes I am, after 2 3/4 years ,still confused. But this is what I am understanding (hopefully): The maximum signal my TV can accept is 1080i (according to the PS3). And downloading a 1080p TV spot or movie trailer from the PlayStation Store, my TV downscales it to its's native resolution of 768. Same with watching a 1080p Blu-ray movie, my TV displays it at 768p. Jeez I hope I have it now! Happy Holidays and a very Happy New Year to all.

PS: I am hoping to get a few more years out of this set, haven't changed the lamp yet. The picture is still great. I have a very expensive CC extended warranty ($499) with unlimited lamp replacements so I don't want to switch out my spare lamp yet. I am hoping the original one blows so I can get at least one from Circuit City.

BrianO
12-25-2007, 04:44 PM
And downloading a 1080p TV spot or movie trailer from the PlayStation Store, my TV downscales it to its's native resolution of 768.


You are still confused, so I'll try again.

Your TV is not rated to even accept a 1080p signal, so it cannot downscale it to your screen's resolution. The 1080p signal needs to be converted to 1080i or 720p or 480p or 480i before it is sent to the TV.

In the case of a BluRay disc, the BluRay player can be set up to output a 1080i signal that your TV will accept. In this case, it is the player that does the conversion from the 1080p format that your TV cannot accept to one that the TV can accept. If you setup your BluRay player to output 1080p your TV will not be able to accept or display it.

Steve A
12-25-2007, 07:21 PM
You are still confused, so I'll try again.

Your TV is not rated to even accept a 1080p signal, so it cannot downscale it to your screen's resolution. The 1080p signal needs to be converted to 1080i or 720p or 480p or 480i before it is sent to the TV.

In the case of a BluRay disc, the BluRay player can be set up to output a 1080i signal that your TV will accept. In this case, it is the player that does the conversion from the 1080p format that your TV cannot accept to one that the TV can accept. If you setup your BluRay player to output 1080p your TV will not be able to accept or display it.

I understand that. My question involved my selecting the download of the Sony PS3 commercial to the PS3 hardrive. I had the choice of downloading the 1080p version or the 720p version. Since the PS3 detects 1080i as the highest quality signal for my TV, and since I can select either version to download.....does it make sense that the 1080p version looks better than the 720p version on my TV? I don't mean to be talking in circles but I can download either version and the 1080p version looked sharper. So would it make sense that the 1080p converted to 1080i would look better than ther 720p converted to 1080i?

Thanks

Steve A
12-25-2007, 07:34 PM
Loves to Watch said this to me and I understand this:
Steve, it still sounds as if you are a little confused so here goes. Your TV is 768 resolution not 1080. Now since 768 is higher than 720, that 1080p commercial you downloaded would look better than a 720 commercial because at 720 your TV would have to up-scale whereas with the 1080 signal the TV down scales the higher resolution material to 768.
__________________

BrianO
12-27-2007, 12:18 AM
I understand that. My question involved my selecting the download of the Sony PS3 commercial to the PS3 hardrive. I had the choice of downloading the 1080p version or the 720p version. Since the PS3 detects 1080i as the highest quality signal for my TV, and since I can select either version to download.....does it make sense that the 1080p version looks better than the 720p version on my TV? I don't mean to be talking in circles but I can download either version and the 1080p version looked sharper. So would it make sense that the 1080p converted to 1080i would look better than ther 720p converted to 1080i?

Thanks

In that case the PS3, which can handle 1080p, can convert it to a format that your TV can handle. Download the 1080p version to your PS3 to preserve the maximum amout of detail in the images. Then set the PS3 to send it to the TV as either 1080i or 720p. Try both settings to see which looks best on your TV.

If your TV properly de-interlaces a 1080i signal, then the 1080i setting will probably look sharper. However, not all 720/768p TVs de-interlace 1080i properly. Some sacrifice detail by upscaling each 540 line field of the 1080i signal to 720/768 lines to artificially increase the frame rate to 60 fps. On those TVs setting the PS3 to 720p will often produce a noticeably sharper image.

Steve A
12-27-2007, 05:29 AM
In that case the PS3, which can handle 1080p, can convert it to a format that your TV can handle. Download the 1080p version to your PS3 to preserve the maximum amout of detail in the images. Then set the PS3 to send it to the TV as either 1080i or 720p. Try both settings to see which looks best on your TV.

If your TV properly de-interlaces a 1080i signal, then the 1080i setting will probably look sharper. However, not all 720/768p TVs de-interlace 1080i properly. Some sacrifice detail by upscaling each 540 line field of the 1080i signal to 720/768 lines to artificially increase the frame rate to 60 fps. On those TVs setting the PS3 to 720p will often produce a noticeably sharper image.

Thanks Brian.