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Calibration DVD's (Worth it?)

LazerGuided
10-22-2007, 10:18 PM
So are calibration DVD's worth it?

1. Currently would only be able to run a calibration DVD through my Premium Xbox360. Regular old DVD. Would this do the trick? Or...

2. Are there HD DVD or Blu Ray calibration discs? Would this be a better way to calibrate my HDTV?

3. Can you guys recommend a few calibration DVD's? I don't want to spend big bucks, something that works and is decently priced.

A. is this a good calibration DVD?
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Entertainment-Component/dp/B00005PJ70/sr=8-1/qid=1168408829/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9351428-4749666?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

B. Or is this one better?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/630551982X/ref=pd_cp_d_2/105-8379170-9854025?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=10J8QJAW48F9C6901W0F&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=316286001&pf_rd_i=B00005PJ70

C. Or even this one?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EEXEIW/ref=pd_cp_d_3/105-8379170-9854025?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_r=10J8QJAW48F9C6901W0F&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=316286001&pf_rd_i=B00005PJ70

Scottnot
10-23-2007, 04:13 AM
So are calibration DVD's worth it?


Absolutely. For more info, see this:
http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=50745
and this:
http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=50274

I would go with the Avia DVD. Note, there is a new Avia II DVD, which may be an option, but I have no personal experience with it yet. I think the Avia has the best test pattern for setting Brightness (black level) as well as clever test patterns for saturation and tint that seem a little easier to use for novices.

As for players: Since you should calibrate each input on your TV; HDMI, component, S-video, vga, etc., your DVD player will need to have the appropriate outputs to match the inputs of the TV.

Use the DVD to set Brightness, Contrast, Saturation and Hue, and you will be quite satisfied with the results.
Also, once set, do NOT touch Brightness or Hue.
However, feel free to adjust Contrast and Saturation to accomodate variations in room lighting or progam content.

Loves2Watch
10-23-2007, 06:57 AM
Also, once set, do NOT touch Brightness or Hue. However, feel free to adjust Contrast and Saturation to accomodate variations in room lighting or progam content.

I have found that changing any of the settings dramatically affects the other settings. Changing contrast affects brightness (black level) and changing saturation affects bleeding and over saturation. Since we as consumers have no way of knowing what the filmmaker intended us to see, once the settings are calibrated it is best to leave them alone.

360kid
10-23-2007, 07:09 AM
My thoughts are this... The calibration DVD's are good if you are clueless as to how to setup a television. If you know what your doing and what to look for then don't bother.

Sometimes these discs offer a good place to start. I was curious so I got one. Once I was done I had to make more adjustments because I was not happy with the PQ it produced.

Many will say, "just leave it, you'll get used to it." I think this is bull. I don't want to get used to the PQ, nor do I care about the high and mighty natural, as the director intended crap. So your telling me the director wants my PQ to look dull and crappy???

Long story short... if you know what your doing then set your tv to how you think it looks the best. If you are clueless as to what your doing then go get the calibration disc. I got DVD essentials out of curiosity and was not pleased with the dull image they tell you to set it to.

360kid
10-23-2007, 07:14 AM
The best setup I have seen to date is on my buddies philips 1080p ambilight. The screen setup has a handy wizard. It shows you a series of about 10 screen shots. Each screen shot is divided in the middle. The wizard asks you to choose which half of the screen shot you prefer. After 10 or so preference choices, the wizard automatically adjusts all of your screen settings (color, contrast, brightness, tint, sharpness, temp, etc.).

I was playing with the settings and it makes the pq spot on to my preferences. Loved it.

Allin4greeN
10-23-2007, 07:19 AM
I haven't used the Avia discs but, I found DVE to be right on the money. You probably can't go wrong with either of these calibration tools.

Probably the most important adjustments that you can make are related to black and white levels/balance. Get these right and an image/PQ can be dramatically improved. The discs provide a structured approach to achieving this.

Test discs are well worth the investment, IMHO.

Allin4greeN
10-23-2007, 07:21 AM
My thoughts are this... The calibration DVD's are good if you are clueless...Interesting thoughts... You appear to be an expert :D

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:12 AM
Before you spend money, you might want to try the THX Optimizer that is found on many DVD's these days (in the unllikely event you don't have it on one of your DVD's go rent any Star Wars or Pixar film).

360kid
10-23-2007, 08:19 AM
Interesting thoughts... You appear to be an expert :D


Not an expert, just been playing with electronics my whole life. Just pointing out, in my opinion, the DVE disc or the thx optimizer never did anything that I couldn't do on my own. I don't need a disc to make my PQ look dull and lifeless, I can do that with out the discs.

Now if someone doesn't understand the concepts of contrast, brightness, color, tint etc, and cannot figure what does what, and are aimlessly changing values with no success..... Then these discs are great for them.

I personally don't like or need the discs. If this guy is electronics savvy then he prob doesn't need them either. His only reason would be because he is curious, as was I.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 08:31 AM
Before you spend money, you might want to try the THX Optimizer that is found on many DVD's these days (in the unllikely event you don't have it on one of your DVD's go rent any Star Wars or Pixar film).

Which Star Wars movie? I have them all.

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:33 AM
I'm a big advocate of adjusting the picture so it looks good, regardless of what any calibration disc says.

Having said that, though, it helps to have a known reference point to start from (and can return to), regardless of whether you like how it looks. After you calibrate a display using whatever means, save the settings as a preset you can always return to.

Reason being, many adjustments are interactive and after painstakingly adjusting some parameter, you may go on to tweak another that throws everything else you've done out of whack.

Getting just the right setting of brightness and contrast is critical to a good display under all conditions. It's easy to adjust the screen so it looks good under a specific ambient condition, but if you choose the wrong balance between brightness and contrast, you will compromise the PQ under different lighting conditions.

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:34 AM
Which Star Wars movie? I have them all.

I think they all have the THX Optimizer. Look in the disc "Setup" menu.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 08:35 AM
I think they all have the THX Optimizer. Look in the disc "Setup" menu.

I put in two of the new ones and nothing. Nothing in OPTIONS or anything.

Play Movie
Chapter
Options

Those are the choices.

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:40 AM
I put in two of the new ones and nothing. Nothing in OPTIONS or anything.

Play Movie
Chapter
Options

Those are the choices.

I would look under "Options". Every DVD has a "Setup" menu somewhere. If it's a multi-disc set, check each disc.

Off the top of my head, I know "Finding Nemo" has it. Look on the case artwork for the THX logo. I'm pretty sure if the THX logo is on the case, the disc has the Optimizer on it...

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 08:44 AM
No SETUP menu.

XDRoX
10-23-2007, 08:46 AM
I just tried it with the Phantom Menace DVD.
Go to "Options." In the lower right hand corner you will see a THX logo that say optimizer under it. It doesn't even look like it can be highlighted but it can. That's it.

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:49 AM
How do you select languages? How do you enable subtitles?

If these capabilities aren't there, you don't have a legitimate copy of the disc...

Here is a list from THX of all the DVD's that are THX certified and therefore are supposed to have the THX Optimizer on them:

http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/search.html

(Click on "entire list").

If you see the logo "THX Optimizer" anywhere on the screen, that's the the selection button--there is no use of the phrase "THX Optimizer" other than for selecting the Optimizer, it's not a dummy logo or an advertisement or something like that.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 08:49 AM
I just tried it with the Phantom Menace DVD.
Go to "Options." In the lower right hand corner you will see a THX logo that say optimizer under it. It doesn't even look like it can be highlighted but it can. That's it.

Ok I will try it.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 08:51 AM
How do you select languages? How do you enable subtitles?

If these capabilities aren't there, you don't have a legitimate copy of the disc...

Here is a list from THX of all the DVD's that are THX certified and therefore are supposed to have the THX Optimizer on them:

http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/search.html

I bought my copy from the store, so it better be legal.

All that crap is under OPTIONS nothing called SETUP MENU.

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:57 AM
It's still the "Setup" menu regardless of what they call it. I simply used that description to differentiate it from the "Play" and "Scene Selection" menus.

In any event, THX says the Optimizer is on there. If it isn't, then it's not a legitimate copy (unless it's really old--pre THX), regardless of where you bought it. If the THX logo is on the artwork, the Optimizer is on there.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 10:25 AM
It is there. I went through it but at the end it wasn't right. The circle was oblong. I am playing DVD's currently through my Xbox 360.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 11:23 AM
I don't think anyone answered it...

Should I get an HD DVD calibration tool or will a regular DVD version work fine?

Scottnot
10-23-2007, 12:01 PM
My thoughts are this... The calibration DVD's are good if you are clueless as to how to setup a television. If you know what your doing and what to look for then don't bother.
I would suggest that being "clueless" has little to do with it.
One good reason for using a calibration disc is convenience and economy of time, since each input must be calibrated separate from the other inputs - if the consumer is using two HDMI sources, two component and one S-video, then that's 5 calibrations that must be done. Not only is "eyeballing it" difficult, but it is also very time consuming and subject to the peculiarities of the content being used to make the settings.

Sometimes these discs offer a good place to start. I was curious so I got one. Once I was done I had to make more adjustments because I was not happy with the PQ it produced.
I would be curious what elements of the PQ in particular you were "not happy" with?

. . . So your telling me the director wants my PQ to look dull and crappy???

. . . I got DVD essentials out of curiosity and was not pleased with the dull image they tell you to set it to.
It seems that your suggestion is that after adjusting your settings with a calibration disc, you found the PQ to be "dull" and "crappy". Gosh, I think most of us can understand dull, but I'd be curious how you define "crappy" in terms of observable picture quality?

I'll just comment on "dull".

Brightness (black level) cannot be set by "eyeballing" since any variations in program content and quality simply make this an impossible endeavor. Once Brightness is correctly set, reducing it will simply kill detail in dark scenes; while increasing it will result in blacks becoming gray and colors being washed out. So (with a small tip of the hat to extreme changes in room lighting) this tends to be a dead on setting with only one correct spot - any variation from "ideal" will result in a picture that is more "dull".

Hue/Tint like brightness, cannnot be set by "eyeballing" for the same reasons. Once correctly set, reducing it will result in an overly redish tint to all displayed colors; while increasing it will result in an overly greenish tint to all displayed colors. So this again, is almost always a dead on setting with only one correct spot - any variation from "ideal" will result in a generally "off-color" rendition of content.

Contrast (white level) when set with a calibration disc will provide the highest setting at which variations in whites can be visually perceived. Under any circumstances, going higher than the calibrated setting will result is washed out scenes and loss of detail, or in other words, a more dull picture. However, there are two very good reasons to reduce contrast below this high point: 1) some programming is very bright and may be more pleasing if the contrast is reduced below the "maximum" level. 2) when viewing even normal programming in a very dark room, the maximum setting may simply result in an overall picture that is "too bright", in which case, it is advisable to reduce it to a more pleasant level. In neither case does reducing contrast result in any "dullness" of the picture, but simply makes it more pleasing to the eyes.

Saturation when set with a calibration disc assures that each of the primary colors are displayed with equal brightness. This will result in properly displayed picture with respect to the progam content. Increasing saturation will normally result in an imbalance of color with the display taking on a dominant tone. I have found that high quality HD content tends to look perfect at the calibrated settings. On the other hand, great deal of broadcast content seems to be intentionally oversaturated and the picture appears to be either too vivid or (usually) overly strong on the red side. In these cases, it is advisable to reduce saturation until the picture appears more pleasant or natural. I have never seen a program that was too "dull" at the calibrated setting, however I have seen many that are downright annoying in terms of being oversaturated, in which case they can be greatly improved by making a modest adjustment.

Conclusion: There's no way in hell that a properly calibrated set will result in a dull picture.

360kid
10-23-2007, 01:19 PM
I would suggest that being "clueless" has little to do with it.
One good reason for using a calibration disc is convenience and economy of time, since each input must be calibrated separate from the other inputs - if the consumer is using two HDMI sources, two component and one S-video, then that's 5 calibrations that must be done. Not only is "eyeballing it" difficult, but it is also very time consuming and subject to the peculiarities of the content being used to make the settings.


I would be curious what elements of the PQ in particular you were "not happy" with?


It seems that your suggestion is that after adjusting your settings with a calibration disc, you found the PQ to be "dull" and "crappy". Gosh, I think most of us can understand dull, but I'd be curious how you define "crappy" in terms of observable picture quality?

I'll just comment on "dull".

Brightness (black level) cannot be set by "eyeballing" since any variations in program content and quality simply make this an impossible endeavor. Once Brightness is correctly set, reducing it will simply kill detail in dark scenes; while increasing it will result in blacks becoming gray and colors being washed out. So (with a small tip of the hat to extreme changes in room lighting) this tends to be a dead on setting with only one correct spot - any variation from "ideal" will result in a picture that is more "dull".

Hue/Tint like brightness, cannnot be set by "eyeballing" for the same reasons. Once correctly set, reducing it will result in an overly redish tint to all displayed colors; while increasing it will result in an overly greenish tint to all displayed colors. So this again, is almost always a dead on setting with only one correct spot - any variation from "ideal" will result in a generally "off-color" rendition of content.

Contrast (white level) when set with a calibration disc will provide the highest setting at which variations in whites can be visually perceived. Under any circumstances, going higher than the calibrated setting will result is washed out scenes and loss of detail, or in other words, a more dull picture. However, there are two very good reasons to reduce contrast below this high point: 1) some programming is very bright and may be more pleasing if the contrast is reduced below the "maximum" level. 2) when viewing even normal programming in a very dark room, the maximum setting may simply result in an overall picture that is "too bright", in which case, it is advisable to reduce it to a more pleasant level. In neither case does reducing contrast result in any "dullness" of the picture, but simply makes it more pleasing to the eyes.

Saturation when set with a calibration disc assures that each of the primary colors are displayed with equal brightness. This will result in properly displayed picture with respect to the progam content. Increasing saturation will normally result in an imbalance of color with the display taking on a dominant tone. I have found that high quality HD content tends to look perfect at the calibrated settings. On the other hand, great deal of broadcast content seems to be intentionally oversaturated and the picture appears to be either too vivid or (usually) overly strong on the red side. In these cases, it is advisable to reduce saturation until the picture appears more pleasant or natural. I have never seen a program that was too "dull" at the calibrated setting, however I have seen many that are downright annoying in terms of being oversaturated, in which case they can be greatly improved by making a modest adjustment.

Conclusion: There's no way in hell that a properly calibrated set will result in a dull picture.


You are so full of shit, it's coming out your ears.

Basically, without the Senior Thesis this guy wrote, he prefers a natural image which is produced by using the DVE of Avia discs.

While he, and many others, prefer this natural look, I think it makes the PQ look dull and lifeless. While I think the "torch" setting that the tv comes set at is a bit too birght and saturated, I do prefere a setting that is slightly below that.

In essence... Some like a natural experience, Some prefer a brighter and more vibrant image.

Thanks for the settings lesson, took me back to when I was twelve and first learned all that stuff.

And yes, I can eyeball set a tv in less than a minute and have a PQ that I prefer over 15 minutes of using that DVE. If I have to move a tv or when I get a new tv. I can have the PQ set for each input in just a few minutes.

Conclusion: You can come down off of your high horse now.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 01:23 PM
Ok can someone answer my question.

Will a regular calibration DVD be fine? Or should I get an HD DVD version?

Thanks

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 01:28 PM
I want to purchase this today.

360kid
10-23-2007, 02:06 PM
I think DVE offers an HD version. However, I don't know what the difference would be since you are mostly looking at color bars and circles. Seems to me they should d othe same thing. Maybe a slight difference because of the clarity of HD.

I say, if you can find the Hd version cheap the njust get it and see what happens.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 02:08 PM
I think DVE offers an HD version. However, I don't know what the difference would be since you are mostly looking at color bars and circles. Seems to me they should d othe same thing. Maybe a slight difference because of the clarity of HD.

I say, if you can find the Hd version cheap the njust get it and see what happens.

Well I don't have an HD DVD player currently. So it would have to wait till I got one. But I would purchase it now.

But if there really wouldn't be too much a of a difference I will just purchase the regular DVD version

Also DVE, AVIA or AVIA II?

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 02:31 PM
Well it looks like AVIA II wont be out till 2008.

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 02:52 PM
I bought the DVE version.

Bigloww
10-23-2007, 03:02 PM
On option to consider. The HD DVD version DVE I purchased early this year has a SD side, and of course the HD DVD side. So if you are considering getting an HD DVD player (not BD) down the road, it will work with both SD and HD DVD. I got it onsale at Amazon for like 15.. It worked for me very well. And the SD side is where all the tutorial/instruction is at. So it will make for good practice..

LazerGuided
10-23-2007, 03:10 PM
Ok well I might not be getting an HD DVD player until Christmas or after. So the regular DVE will work fine till I get the player.

Allin4greeN
10-23-2007, 04:34 PM
Ok well I might not be getting an HD DVD player until Christmas or after. So the regular DVE will work fine till I get the player.The SD version is great for setting Contrast and Brightness, even when used on an HD player and HDTV. The Colorspace between NTSC (SD) and ATSC (HD) are not the same so, this is where there *might* be slight differentiation in user settings. As has been discussed in the forum previously, however, it's not likely that the difference would be all that noticeable.

I guess I'm in the camp that likes to spend more than a minute or two tinkering with my settings, and I've been very pleased with the results from using DVE. I also used THX when I first started making adjustments and am in agreement with BobY, it's probably a better starting point for practice.

Scottnot
10-23-2007, 05:45 PM
So the regular DVE will work fine till I get the player.

Yes, it will work fine. I have tried both DVE and Avia, and while I personally prefer the Avia disc primarily because I feel it has easier to use test patterns, I have obtained essentially identical results with both of them; that is, Brightness, Contrast, Hue and Saturation all come out to within +/- one click using either disc.

Also, same results on Brightness and Contrast with the HD NET test pattern; and about the same with Spyder TV Pro.

You'll be glad that you took the time and effort to "do it right" - I guess not everyone is blessed with perfect visual acuity such that they can eyeball these settings in less than a minute - most of us just have to plod along our dreary way.

wal-dog
10-23-2007, 06:56 PM
Are they still airing HD-Net Test Pattern? The last couple times I seached for it nothing came up.

BobY
10-23-2007, 07:09 PM
It is there. I went through it but at the end it wasn't right. The circle was oblong. I am playing DVD's currently through my Xbox 360.

I'm not trying to talk you out of buying a caibration disc, but I don't understand the relevance of your comment.

If you use the THX Optmizer to set brightness, contrast, color and tint, it's a good starting point.

If the circle is oblong, you have your display set to stretch mode--I guarantee the circle is round on the disc.

Regardless, that has nothing at all to do with Picture settings, so I'm not sure where you are coming from at this point...

Allin4greeN
10-23-2007, 08:33 PM
It is there. I went through it but at the end it wasn't right. The circle was oblong. I am playing DVD's currently through my Xbox 360....I'm not sure where you are coming from at this point...It's been awhile since I used THX but, if I remember correctly, there are two patterns that are available to evaluate/determine Aspect Ratio (http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/optimizer/aspectRatio.html) settings (circle inside rectangles). One is used for 4:3 content settings and the other, 16:9. Depending upon the DVD, and player and/or HDTV settings, one will appear as a circle and the other more oblong. It's up to the user to select the correct pattern relative to his/her needs and equipment settings.

BTW, the filter glasses can be ordered from the web site (http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/blueGlasses.html). I think I got mine for free but, it looks like they're now charging a nominal fee.

BobY
10-23-2007, 08:47 PM
Yeah, but my point was, what difference does it make with regard to the topic at hand?

Whether the circle is round or oblong doesn't affect *any* of the adjustments for PQ, if it's oblong it just means you have the player or TV set wrong.

Allin4greeN
10-23-2007, 09:02 PM
Yeah, but my point was, what difference does it make with regard to the topic at hand?

Whether the circle is round or oblong doesn't affect *any* of the adjustments for PQ, if it's oblong it just means you have the player or TV set wrong.I wandered :offtopic a bit thinking it might help the OP. Call me an optimist ;)

360kid
10-27-2007, 12:07 AM
Just felt like posting an update on this off topic thread. I ran the THX optimizer and my set, EYEBALL SET BY ME, was virtually spot on. The Brightness and Contrast were 1 off each. My color and I would also assume my backlight were a smidge higher, but then again, I prefer a brighter more vibrant image. Sharpness was also spot on.

Kinda of pointless, just wanted to say that some people can eyeball a set very well and very fast. I have a gift I guess.

If you want the Eyeball calibrator can come to your home and eyeball set your television for only $999.99 plus airfare. Don't bother with those 6500k calibrators, call the Eyeballer, 1-800-EYEBALL:D

Loves2Watch
10-27-2007, 08:03 AM
You are so full of shit, it's coming out your ears.

Basically, without the Senior Thesis this guy wrote, he prefers a natural image which is produced by using the DVE of Avia discs.

While he, and many others, prefer this natural look, I think it makes the PQ look dull and lifeless. While I think the "torch" setting that the tv comes set at is a bit too birght and saturated, I do prefere a setting that is slightly below that.

Thanks for the settings lesson, took me back to when I was twelve and first learned all that stuff.

And yes, I can eyeball set a tv in less than a minute and have a PQ that I prefer over 15 minutes of using that DVE. If I have to move a tv or when I get a new tv. I can have the PQ set for each input in just a few minutes.

Conclusion: You can come down off of your high horse now.

We really don't need to listen to someone who knows better than most if not all of the professionals who say "use a calibration disc". If you think you know better, well then just go ahead but don't tell others they don't need what the pros recommend. And keep your foul language off of here and flaming as well or you will be removed.

360kid
10-27-2007, 09:11 AM
We really don't need to listen to someone who knows better than most if not all of the professionals who say "use a calibration disc". If you think you know better, well then just go ahead but don't tell others they don't need what the pros recommend. And keep your foul language off of here and flaming as well or you will be removed.


I have used foul language perhaps only 2 or 3 times in all of my posts on this forum. And they are typically the "s" word. I also make it a point not to attack anyone personally. But... this guy felt like rubbing my nose in his knowledge, just so he could make himself feel smart and arrogant. He threw the first stone. He probably thought he was so clever when he wrote that essay.

I am sorry if I offended anyone. But.. anyone knows if you poke a man in the eye, he will poke back.

Anyways, this is a difference of opinion on calibration discs. This is an open forum where people can give their opinions. My opinion is that these discs are a complete waste of time... unless you really have no idea what to do, then they can assist you and give you a starting point. If you love these discs, then hey, that is your opinion. Go out and spend $15 and get one. I recommend anyone who is curious to get one. It is your $15.


And I noticed you warned me and not him. Two boys are fighting in the school yard, you break it up. What kind of message would you be sending if you only reprimanded one of the boys for fighting and not the other. Wait.. I know, because this has nothing to do with the fight. You reprimanded me becasuse you like calibration discs and get upset when someone has an opinion that is contradictory to your own.

Sorry, I won't express my opinion around you anymore.

Allin4greeN
10-27-2007, 11:13 AM
I'm not sure the thread has really gotten all that off-topic, except for a bit of bickering, of course...

I think that the trip can often be more fun than the destination. That is, sometimes I re-calibrate my HDTV not because it looks bad but, because I enjoy the process. I enjoy the process because I use test discs that allow me to play with different patterns and settings.

360, I was trying to be good natured when I called you an "expert." I've no doubt that you know what you're doing so... my bad. BTW, I thought the 1-800-EYEBALL bit was hilarious. Even though I completely disagree :p

SteveO23
10-27-2007, 02:48 PM
yes

360kid
10-27-2007, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure the thread has really gotten all that off-topic, except for a bit of bickering, of course...

I think that the trip can often be more fun than the destination. That is, sometimes I re-calibrate my HDTV not because it looks bad but, because I enjoy the process. I enjoy the process because I use test discs that allow me to play with different patterns and settings.

360, I was trying to be good natured when I called you an "expert." I've no doubt that you know what you're doing so... my bad. BTW, I thought the 1-800-EYEBALL bit was hilarious. Even though I completely disagree :p


Yeah, I got the DVE disc, though I cannot find it now, because I was curious. Like you, I was excited about my new tv, I wanted to play with the LCD. The disc was a way for me to play with the set. But, I also didn't like the disc for several reasons. It is a combination of some of my settings were spot on and I didn't need the disc or the ones that are off, I didn't like how the DVE had them set anyways. But, yes I can agree it was fun at the time, and I think they are not completely worthless to some people.

Thanks for your post, always good chatting.