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Graybars on Network HD AND SD Stations

MEF
02-02-2005, 02:50 PM
I get what you are saying, but when I go back and forth as you suggest, from an HD channel to SD and then back to HD and to SD, they all appear with gray sidebars, no matter how they are broadcasting. If, for instance, I tune in to my local CBS station on its regular channel for local news, I am watching in 4:3, but it fills the screen because it is preset to zoom. Then I punch in channel 702, the same CBS station in HD and it also fills the whole screen with a better picture. THEN, WHEN I RETURN back to the regular CBS station, it has gray sidebars, and when I return once again to the HD station, it ALSO has gray sidebars!!! THE REAL HD stations, like Discovery HD, PBS HD don't have this problem, nor do the cable stations, but the network stations do. DOes this make any sense.?

Lanny
02-02-2005, 03:26 PM
Graybars are used to prevent burn-in on CRT and Plasma displays.

Kat Pat
02-03-2005, 07:22 AM
Did you ever figure out the problem? I just have had a simular problem. I have had comcast hdtv for over two years all my local hdtv have come in full screen ..Then one day all my local hdtv all come with black bars on the sides cannot figure it out I'm hoping it's my box.

MEF
02-03-2005, 08:03 AM
I never really figured it out, except that it may be the box and there's not much you can do, except fiddle around with the aspect settings in your cable box and on your remote, once you have the 4:3 station tuned in.

Kat Pat
02-03-2005, 09:43 AM
Hmmmm you can adjust on the remote? I have tried to adjust on the box but it will not change I had to have hit some button wrong because all my HD channels were full screen. I'm so frustrated... hopefully I will get some answers this afternoon thank you

MEF
02-03-2005, 09:46 AM
Yes, I discovered this rather late in the game myself, as the cable guy never explained it to me. But since you have a different cable company, call and ask them which button the remote can change the view mode on the screen (zoom, stretch, etc.) On my remote (Time Warner Cable) it's the # button. Good luck!

theCableGuy
02-03-2005, 01:00 PM
I'm curious,
Who is your cable provider?
What type of STB do you have?

I can probably help you if it's Scientific Atlanta, as that's what we use.

MEF
02-03-2005, 01:10 PM
My cable provider is Time Warner Cable and I do have an Scientific Atlanta. not sure offhand which model, since I am at work at the moment.

theCableGuy
02-03-2005, 03:52 PM
I get what you are saying, but when I go back and forth as you suggest, from an HD channel to SD and then back to HD and to SD, they all appear with gray sidebars, no matter how they are broadcasting. If, for instance, I tune in to my local CBS station on its regular channel for local news, I am watching in 4:3, but it fills the screen because it is preset to zoom. Then I punch in channel 702, the same CBS station in HD and it also fills the whole screen with a better picture. THEN, WHEN I RETURN back to the regular CBS station, it has gray sidebars, and when I return once again to the HD station, it ALSO has gray sidebars!!! THE REAL HD stations, like Discovery HD, PBS HD don't have this problem, nor do the cable stations, but the network stations do. DOes this make any sense.?

2 options 1 easy 1 not so easy:

1. Press the settings button, then the more settings option, go down to the output formats and make sure 1080i, 480i, 480p and 720p are all selected. note* if your TV is not 720p compatible DO NOT SELECT 720p
Make sure you hit the " accept " button (displayed on screen)
Then go to the aspect ratio and make sure it is set to 16:9 widescreen, 4:3 stretch. This should correct that problem.

Now the easy one,

2. If you do not have composite cables connected to your cable box, please get some and connect the composite video/audio from the output of the STB to a composite video/audio input on the back of your HD TV. To view non-HD channels simply switch the TV's input to the composite input you connected the STB to. To watch HD channels, switch the TV's component input.

Since analog and digital channels are output as 4:3 on your STB's component output, you can change the way the box sends out that signal, or you can use your TV's inputs to match the proper input for the type of channels you are trying to view.

hope this helps,

MEF
02-03-2005, 04:06 PM
Well, the first actually sounds easier to me than the second, since I'd rather not fool around any more with my cables. I sort of tried the first option a few nights ago, but what happened was that in surfing from channel to channel I got a second or two of scrambling as I guess the box was trying to make up its mind which signal to send out??? Your explanation has helped however with my understanding of the whole thing. I have to go home and ponder it now, trying the first option again. Thanks for your help!

gollum
02-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Have you tried setting your "box" to 4:3 instead of 16:9?
This might get rid of the bars, but then you have to set it back to 16:9 for the real HD stuff.

MEF
02-03-2005, 06:39 PM
WEll I tried your first option and it worked, but I didn't like the way the picture transitioned from station to station. I suppose I could try the additional cable. I'll see. THank you so much for all of your help!

theCableGuy
02-04-2005, 06:53 AM
WEll I tried your first option and it worked, but I didn't like the way the picture transitioned from station to station. I suppose I could try the additional cable. I'll see. THank you so much for all of your help!

The "blip" that you see when you change from a HD channel to an analog or digital station is the box restructuring the output signal from 1080i to 480p, that's a normal process when those options are selected. If you hook-up the composite cables and switch inputs from component to composite, component for HD channels-composite for non-hd channels, will eliminate the need to stretch or zoom, the lessor of two evils is to switch the inputs. The momentary lapse of picture while the box restructurs, although annoying is the only other option. Most people I've dealt with don't like to have to switch inputs, which is understandable, but has almost become necessary with all the different formats available these days. Ponder this- if you have a vcr hooked up to video one, and a dvd player hooked up to video 2, you would need to switch inputs to get the proper input for the device you are trying to use. Well the same thing applies for your HD channels and your non-hd channels. The analog and digital pictures really weren't meant to be viewed on your component input, therefore switching to the composite input is the correct input for those channels. Hope this helps a little more.

RonInBigEasy
02-04-2005, 08:57 AM
The "blip" that you see when you change from a HD channel to an analog or digital station is the box restructuring the output signal from 1080i to 480p, that's a normal process when those options are selected. If you hook-up the composite cables and switch inputs from component to composite, component for HD channels-composite for non-hd channels, will eliminate the need to stretch or zoom, the lessor of two evils is to switch the inputs. The momentary lapse of picture while the box restructurs, although annoying is the only other option. Most people I've dealt with don't like to have to switch inputs, which is understandable, but has almost become necessary with all the different formats available these days. Ponder this- if you have a vcr hooked up to video one, and a dvd player hooked up to video 2, you would need to switch inputs to get the proper input for the device you are trying to use. Well the same thing applies for your HD channels and your non-hd channels. The analog and digital pictures really weren't meant to be viewed on your component input, therefore switching to the composite input is the correct input for those channels. Hope this helps a little more.

I could be wrong, but I think what he's looking for is a seamless, same picture format from one channel, component to the next with one click of a button from the remote. I also could be wrong, but that is impossible. I personally have the Samsung HDTV ready monitor TV. When I want to watch a HD program, I get my Samsung remote, go to the picture display setting and change it to WIDE, then on the Dish 811 remote, I have it set to NORMAL. When I switch back to a non-HD program, I change the settings on the 811 remote to STRETCH, then on the Samsung remote, I change the settings from wide to NORMAL. From the equipment I have and from what I understand there is nor will there ever be just a "one click" on the remote from a HD channel to a non-HD channel and have the display be exactly the same. Oh and the settings I have on my 811 are 16x9 and 1080. I never change these, only the ones I mentioned in trasitioning from HD to non-HD broadcasts in an effort to get the best looking picture.

GRN
02-04-2005, 09:54 AM
That's odd that you have to switch back and forth. On my TV I have the 811 set to "partial zoom" for non-HD programing. When I switch to a channel that is in HD (i.e. Discovery HD Theater) the box automatically sets itself to "normal". I don't have to press any buttons. When I switch back to a non-HD channel, the box automatically sets itself back to "partial zoom". I don't have to go into the menu and change the aspect ratio, the output format , nothing. My receiver is set permanently at 16x9, 1080i and connected to the TV via DVI. When I switch to a non-HD channel, the picture automatically stretches itself. When I switch to an HD channel, the picture is in full HD.

Reading the previous posts, I would guess that is the exception more than the rule. But what I don't understand is this: If you have to switch back and forth and I don't, and we have the same receiver and settings, then what causes it? The TV? Maybe it flags the receiver to let it know when to switch.......? :confused:

RonInBigEasy
02-04-2005, 10:06 AM
That's odd that you have to switch back and forth. On my TV I have the 811 set to "partial zoom" for non-HD programing. When I switch to a channel that is in HD (i.e. Discovery HD Theater) the box automatically sets itself to "normal". I don't have to press any buttons. When I switch back to a non-HD channel, the box automatically sets itself back to "partial zoom". I don't have to go into the menu and change the aspect ratio, the output format , nothing. My receiver is set permanently at 16x9, 1080i and connected to the TV via DVI. When I switch to a non-HD channel, the picture automatically stretches itself. When I switch to an HD channel, the picture is in full HD.

Reading the previous posts, I would guess that is the exception more than the rule. But what I don't understand is this: If you have to switch back and forth and I don't, and we have the same receiver and settings, then what causes it? The TV? Maybe it flags the receiver to let it know when to switch.......? :confused:

Maybe so. That is beyond my knowledge which has been acquired through trial an error. It's not really a big deal to be honest. It's less effort then getting up an putting a DVD in the player. From what I can guess, you are right, the settings on the 811 will remain the same, however they do not overide the settings on my TV. In other words, what ever I put in the 811, i.e. stretch, partial zoome etc for a given channel DO remain the same, but in order for me to get the best looking picture on any given channel, I still have to change my setting on my TV itself from WIDE to NORMAL. So, yes, what you say is correct, if I was watching say TNT-HD, and had the settings at NORMAL, and changed the channel to FOX News, and for that channel I might have the settings set to STRETCH, then change back again those would remain the same. However the Samsung TV settings do not remember the settings. Whatever was the last settings remains the same regardless of channel. So I do have to manually change the settings on my TV from either WIDE to NORMAL or NORMAL to WIDE depending on what type of broadcast I'm looking at to get the best looking display.

theCableGuy
02-04-2005, 10:11 AM
I would love it if the TV could have a seamless transition from HD to non-HD, but alas STB technology isn't ready for that yet..sigh. The reason it is an issue with the SA STB is because the box only outputs 1080i by default, and analog/digital channels aren't 1080i widescreen, hence the STB senses these stations to be 4:3 instead of the 16:9. This is why when watching non-HD channels you see the letterbox effect on the TV. I don't have access to Sat. converters so I don't know how they interact, but then again that's because I'm a cableguy. Switching inputs or telling the box what to do with the type of channels you are trying to watch are the only two options. Neither are user friendly, but that's what technology gives us to work with.

Best regards

RonInBigEasy
02-04-2005, 10:21 AM
I would love it if the TV could have a seamless transition from HD to non-HD, but alas STB technology isn't ready for that yet..sigh. The reason it is an issue with the SA STB is because the box only outputs 1080i by default, and analog/digital channels aren't 1080i widescreen, hence the STB senses these stations to be 4:3 instead of the 16:9. This is why when watching non-HD channels you see the letterbox effect on the TV. I don't have access to Sat. converters so I don't know how they interact, but then again that's because I'm a cableguy. Switching inputs or telling the box what to do with the type of channels you are trying to watch are the only two options. Neither are user friendly, but that's what technology gives us to work with.

Best regards

LOL and of course, it would make much too much sense if the sales people inform individuals at the point of sale that there IS a little effort and tweaking requried when changing from HD - non-HD programs and DVDs etc. No, they wait until they get home, turn the TV on, start the channel surf and then think there is something wrong with the TV. Then you'll see the posts......."What's wrong with my TV!!!!" :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

theCableGuy
02-04-2005, 02:36 PM
LOL and of course, it would make much too much sense if the sales people inform individuals at the point of sale that there IS a little effort and tweaking requried when changing from HD - non-HD programs and DVDs etc. No, they wait until they get home, turn the TV on, start the channel surf and then think there is something wrong with the TV. Then you'll see the posts......."What's wrong with my TV!!!!" :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

WHAT!!!!!! you expect somebody who gets paid commission to tell somebody how to operate a TV? You get to see the post from these people, I get to run the service call out to their house, make sure the STB is connected properly ( takes all of 5 minutes) then spend 45 minutes educating on how to use this wonderful new piece of equipment. I'd settle for the post, but work demands face to face interaction. Rest assured, when I leave the house, they might not like what they have to do, but at least I make sure they know how to do it ;)

RonInBigEasy
02-04-2005, 03:17 PM
WHAT!!!!!! you expect somebody who gets paid commission to tell somebody how to operate a TV? You get to see the post from these people, I get to run the service call out to their house, make sure the STB is connected properly ( takes all of 5 minutes) then spend 45 minutes educating on how to use this wonderful new piece of equipment. I'd settle for the post, but work demands face to face interaction. Rest assured, when I leave the house, they might not like what they have to do, but at least I make sure they know how to do it ;)

In defense of some of the sales people, I think part of the problem is there is a lot of buying on the internet therefore there isn't any face-to-face interaction. Also, to the novice and even the semi-novice in all of this, I don't think they really realize how many idiosyncrasies there are in these "new age" TVs. Even I had to stop and actually read the directions from cover to cover on both my TV and DVD player to get them to work properly . :D :D The days of one power cord, one cable connection, turn it on are long gone! :confused:

theCableGuy
02-04-2005, 03:34 PM
In defense of some of the sales people, I think part of the problem is there is a lot of buying on the internet therefore there isn't any face-to-face interaction. Also, to the novice and even the semi-novice in all of this, I don't think they really realize how many idiosyncrasies there are in these "new age" TVs. Even I had to stop and actually read the directions from cover to cover on both my TV and DVD player to get them to work properly . :D :D The days of one power cord, one cable connection, turn it on are long gone! :confused:

You mean there's more then one power cord and one cable connection? Manybe I should go to the store and see if they'll accept my TV for one of these fancy "multi-input" TV's of which you speak. I have a 1979 Zenith Model SL2561X that I'll be happy to trade for something more complicated. DVD player? What am I gonna do with all my LP's? ~clicking heels together~ there's no place like home, there's no place like home. :D :D :D