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Guitar Hero II DLC NIGHTMARE!!

Trantzz
04-11-2007, 10:14 AM
I was just surfing the offical GH forums.

Link: http://forum.guitarherogame.com/

From what I am understanding Microsoft/Red Octane released 9 new songs today to download. They are selling them in sets of 3 for 500 points a set! That over $6.00 for 3 songs!! THAT'S INSANE!! You can read through some of the posts and people are PISSED.

I don't think I will be buying the new songs without a price adjustment....

If you do the Math, it would cost some where around $100.00 to D/L the entire GH1 set!! WTF!!??

besz28
04-11-2007, 10:22 AM
2 dollars a song...who cares? 18 dollars for 9 songs, sounds good to me. people pay 4 dollars a pack to smoke cigarettes, 5 dollars for a drink and don't even think twice. pay or don't. you paid 90 dollars for a toy guitar and now people worry about 18 dollars? cmon

Trantzz
04-11-2007, 10:31 AM
2 dollars a song...who cares? 18 dollars for 9 songs, sounds good to me. people pay 4 dollars a pack to smoke cigarettes, 5 dollars for a drink and don't even think twice. pay or don't. you paid 90 dollars for a toy guitar and now people worry about 18 dollars? cmon

I might agree with you more if these were NEW songs.
These are the same songs from the first GH.

Trust me, I have the money for them. The fact that you can play Co-Op on them is a nice draw as well. You are right about one thing, I just paid $90.00 for the game and a plastice guitar. According to these prices I would have to pay about $10 MORE for less songs and NO GUITAR (sold seperate for $59.99). How does that make sense?

Just on principal it irk's me!

besz28
04-11-2007, 10:36 AM
i do agree on the principal thing....but i love this game so much i just gotta have the new songs. take care

VegasFlyby
04-11-2007, 10:46 AM
I was hoping for about 100 pts per song and being able to pick the songs you wanted. Now if there's just one song I want I'm forced into getting two others I didn't want in the first place.

Trantzz
04-11-2007, 10:47 AM
i do agree on the principal thing....but i love this game so much i just gotta have the new songs. take care

Yeah...I am gonna struggle with that as well! :confused:

SOBAY310
04-11-2007, 10:48 AM
you paid 90 dollars for a toy guitar

Man, that had me rolling.... :D

Trantzz
04-11-2007, 10:48 AM
I was hoping for about 100 pts per song and being able to pick the songs you wanted. Now if there's just one song I want I'm forced into getting two others I didn't want in the first place.

I agree. I would buy the ENTIRE first game worth of songs if I could, but not for $100!!!!

pjc
04-11-2007, 11:23 AM
If they're gonna charge that much, at least let us be able to pick the songs. To get the 3 songs I want, I'd have to buy 2 of the sets. Plus, I could see 500 pts if these were all new songs, but not old GH1 songs (and I never played GH1)

Razor05
04-11-2007, 11:51 AM
I agree with what you guys are saying, but the bottom line is you don't have to buy a thing. ;)

beezdeez
04-11-2007, 02:43 PM
Ouch dude.

I think if we "mobilized" a boycott of DL content then we'd see a price drop, but that won't happen.

It's just like gas prices... people bitch about it but they still pay the price. As long as people are buying the new songs at this price, why would they in their right mind lower the price.

That's a lot of money, considering you can buy the game for $50 which includes the base software and 70+ songs.

beezdeez
04-11-2007, 02:47 PM
Ha, they took down all the threads with people "rising up" over the pricing... sketchy.

Noct
04-11-2007, 02:55 PM
Hey, Could somebody post a list of the songs, or a link?
I'm not home and I'm dying to know whats on there..

mshulman
04-11-2007, 03:37 PM
Hey, Could somebody post a list of the songs, or a link?
I'm not home and I'm dying to know whats on there..

You need to be introduced to http://www.majornelson.com

mshulman
04-11-2007, 03:39 PM
If you do the Math, it would cost some where around $100.00 to D/L the entire GH1 set!! WTF!!??

I keep seeing posts about this on the various sites. Who's to say the rest will be released at the same prices?

Odds are very good that they are testing the waters. Thanks to Xbox live, they know exactly how many people play GHII and how frequently. They'll also then be able to tell how many of the people that play it frequently buy the extra songs. So if its not as many as expected, I'm sure future downloads will have better pricing.

beezdeez
04-11-2007, 03:51 PM
Judging how people reacted on the boards at the official GH site, I wouldn't be surprised if they lower the pricing relatively soon.

I'd hold out on buying the songs. Although the Chili Peppers/Bad Religion/Incubus track list is making my fingers itch.

mshulman
04-11-2007, 08:34 PM
Normally, I wouldn't think the complaints would have much of an effect, but this has really stirred things up and I think caused a lot more uproar than any other content. I tend to agree we may see at a minimum some statement from them - hopefully a price decrease as well.

VegasFlyby
04-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Here's a petition you can sign...almost 3500 signatures so far.

http://www.petitiononline.com/GHIIDLC/petition.html

Trantzz
04-12-2007, 06:51 AM
Here's a petition you can sign...almost 3500 signatures so far.

http://www.petitiononline.com/GHIIDLC/petition.html

I signed yesterday!

Trantzz
04-12-2007, 07:02 AM
I keep seeing posts about this on the various sites. Who's to say the rest will be released at the same prices?

Odds are very good that they are testing the waters. Thanks to Xbox live, they know exactly how many people play GHII and how frequently. They'll also then be able to tell how many of the people that play it frequently buy the extra songs. So if its not as many as expected, I'm sure future downloads will have better pricing.

Who knows if they will lower the price in the future? WOULD YOU if no one complains??? I am glad people are sticking up for themselves.

beezdeez
04-12-2007, 06:05 PM
I signed that petition. It's almost to 8k people.

It's bullshit, no way around it. First of all, how many companies are getting handed money from for the in-game ads? Vans, Gibson/Epiphone, Line 6, Boss, etc., etc. This alone rakes in for them ridiculous amounts of money. Second of all, the liscensing excuse is crap. These songs have already been on GH1! They got permission to record a cover and use it. I'm pretty sure that's an unlimited use thing, unless they have to pay a royalty everytime someone plays Freebird or something similar. Puh-leaaaase.

Give me a break. We aren't idiots. We may play with plastic toy guitars, and we may be intoxicated 90% of the time that we are playing, but that doesn't mean it's going to go over our head when you talk about liscensing.

I say shove the songs up your ass, RedOctane. But feel free to pull them out when you are ready to price reasonably.

mshulman
04-12-2007, 06:26 PM
I agree that the pricing is high.

But everyone really needs to stop comparing it to GH1 and the fact that if you looked the number of songs in GHII, that it should cost more based on this pricing.

Its very likely the songs in GHI and GHII were all license for a one time fee for distribution in the game itself. All the does is cover them for the GHI songs to be sold as part of the GHI game and the GHII songs to be sold as part of the GHII game.

What it likely does not cover is usage in other ways, such as DLC.

So, complain all you want about the price - I know I won't be buying them, but stop thinking you know how everthing is licensed and how they "should" be able to charge X or Y.

And I actually don't think the price per song is really all that terrible. We're only talking an extra $1 above itunes store pricing. What makes it worse though is if you only want 3 songs and they are all in different packs. You then end up paying $18.75 for 3 songs! At least if it was broken up, we'd have more of a choice.

beezdeez
04-12-2007, 06:50 PM
Okay, well then tell me what this liscensing bullshit talk is since I'm not allowed to act like I know what they are talking about. What is it they are liscensing? The right to cover a song, no? The cover of the song is their property once it's made. You're giving them too much credit. Even if they did have to pay a fee to "re-liscense" the songs for this game, it would be very small. That's logic. And with the in-game ads they have everywhere (Shit I get sponsered by Ernie Ball everytime I start campaign) then they aren't losing money.

Now that I think about it, I don't even think it's a RedOctane issue. I bet it's Microsoft trying to shaft us all because they know how hyped everyone was about the "unbelievable amount of DLC." It makes sense that the only person defending this publicly is not a RedOctane or Harmonix or Activision employee, but it's Major Nelson... an insider of Live and known link between customers and sales.

I get the feeling that RedOctane was approached with this crap and they really can't say no. Now they are the ones suffering the backlash.

Either way, everyone wants a response which doesn't include vague details of "liscensing." I'm calling shenanigans on that.

mshulman
04-12-2007, 09:52 PM
All I'm saying is we really don't know how they have to license it. And is it just a license from the original artist? What about those that actually performed?

All I'm saying is we really don't know everything behind it. And there are 4 parties that any profits may be split by - Microsoft, Red Octane, Activision and the musicians.

And I do not believe Microsoft sets the pricing. From what I have heard, they charge for the publishing of the content since its all sitting on their servers. Its my understanding that this is what caused issues with Gears of War - Epic didn't want to pay that fee, they wanted it hosted for free.

And regardless of all of the above, the way many people are reacting, you'd think they were charging $5 a song. Is it pricey? Yes. Is it as ridiculously over-priced as so many are making it out to be? No.

Take away the bundling and price them at 150 points each and I bet it wouldn't have been such a big issue.

Trantzz
04-13-2007, 04:12 AM
All I'm saying is we really don't know how they have to license it. And is it just a license from the original artist? What about those that actually performed?

All I'm saying is we really don't know everything behind it. And there are 4 parties that any profits may be split by - Microsoft, Red Octane, Activision and the musicians.

And I do not believe Microsoft sets the pricing. From what I have heard, they charge for the publishing of the content since its all sitting on their servers. Its my understanding that this is what caused issues with Gears of War - Epic didn't want to pay that fee, they wanted it hosted for free.

And regardless of all of the above, the way many people are reacting, you'd think they were charging $5 a song. Is it pricey? Yes. Is it as ridiculously over-priced as so many are making it out to be? No.

Take away the bundling and price them at 150 points each and I bet it wouldn't have been such a big issue.

What most people do not understand, according to your logic (not flaming, you make valid points) is: IF licensing/fee's really do account for the majority of the cost here how can Red OCtane release an entire CD/DVD of the SAME songs for $40.00? Thats what the price is of GH1 at the moment? It's the same licensed content. THere is no physical disk to make (productin cost). The only change is RO made the tunes CO-Op and it;s onth GH2 engine. I am no programmer but the GH game engine can't be all the difficuly. I mean it's colored circles falling from the sky!

If they are saying the rise in price is due to the extra coding to put in Co-Op FINE, then at least tell us that.

beezdeez
04-13-2007, 05:08 AM
All I'm saying is we really don't know how they have to license it. And is it just a license from the original artist? What about those that actually performed?

All I'm saying is we really don't know everything behind it. And there are 4 parties that any profits may be split by - Microsoft, Red Octane, Activision and the musicians.

And I do not believe Microsoft sets the pricing. From what I have heard, they charge for the publishing of the content since its all sitting on their servers. Its my understanding that this is what caused issues with Gears of War - Epic didn't want to pay that fee, they wanted it hosted for free.

And regardless of all of the above, the way many people are reacting, you'd think they were charging $5 a song. Is it pricey? Yes. Is it as ridiculously over-priced as so many are making it out to be? No.

Take away the bundling and price them at 150 points each and I bet it wouldn't have been such a big issue.

From what I have read, a lot of people have called RedOctane and gotten redirected to Xbox Live Billing. This clues in that it may be a MS thing. MS is taking a ticket for each complaint. Which is showing that they might actually care. :eek:

The pricing it's so much the fact that each song is $2. Yeah that sucks. It's when people add up to the cost to have all the songs. At least that's what gets me. If I want the whole GH1 track list, I'm paying $90+, the price of the whole game and a guitar controller. That is ridiculously over-priced, IMO.

mshulman
04-13-2007, 06:10 AM
What most people do not understand, according to your logic (not flaming, you make valid points) is: IF licensing/fee's really do account for the majority of the cost here how can Red OCtane release an entire CD/DVD of the SAME songs for $40.00? Thats what the price is of GH1 at the moment? It's the same licensed content. THere is no physical disk to make (productin cost). The only change is RO made the tunes CO-Op and it;s onth GH2 engine. I am no programmer but the GH game engine can't be all the difficuly. I mean it's colored circles falling from the sky!

If they are saying the rise in price is due to the extra coding to put in Co-Op FINE, then at least tell us that.

As I understand licensing, there are a few ways it could be handled. For GHI, it could have been a flat fee for how ever many copies they sold. For the downloadable content, they may pay license fee's per copy.

This would account for how so many songs can be included at $40 and only 3 at $6.25.

mshulman
04-13-2007, 06:11 AM
From what I have read, a lot of people have called RedOctane and gotten redirected to Xbox Live Billing. This clues in that it may be a MS thing. MS is taking a ticket for each complaint. Which is showing that they might actually care. :eek:

The pricing it's so much the fact that each song is $2. Yeah that sucks. It's when people add up to the cost to have all the songs. At least that's what gets me. If I want the whole GH1 track list, I'm paying $90+, the price of the whole game and a guitar controller. That is ridiculously over-priced, IMO.

While I don't know for sure either way, it could simply mean that since the content is up on Microsoft's live service, Microsoft handles any calls. This could simple be part of the service MS offers its publishers. Whether it be price or an issue downloading, they might just field everything and report back to red octane. And it may not even be red octane that determined the price, it could be Activision.

pjc
04-13-2007, 06:16 AM
All I know is if they are going to charge about 160pts/song then I should be able to pick the songs I want. The 2 songs I want are "Bark at the Moon" and "Killer Queen". To get those, I would have to pay 1000 points and get 4 additional songs that I don't really care about. I would much rather have to pay around 300 pts for the 2 songs I actually want.


Also, as for who sets the price, I don't know. But in the posts I've read, Major Nelson has said that MS doesn't make set the price, Red Octane does. That would mean the developer sets the price.....HOWEVER...did the publisher of Gears of War want to make some maps available for free and Microsoft wouldn't let them? There was a deal that the maps would cost MS points for now and then will be free in a few months. Somebody is responsible for setting the price, but nobody is taking responsibility.

besz28
04-13-2007, 12:42 PM
and gas is 3 dollars a gallon......cigs are 4 dollars a pack, gallon of milk is 3.50...point is their are a lot of other things people should be petitioning about. 2.08 per song what would make you happy? 1.50, 1.75? who cares. it's a game for crying out loud enjoy it.

Trantzz
04-13-2007, 01:15 PM
and gas is 3 dollars a gallon......cigs are 4 dollars a pack, gallon of milk is 3.50...point is their are a lot of other things people should be petitioning about. 2.08 per song what would make you happy? 1.50, 1.75? who cares. it's a game for crying out loud enjoy it.

SO then petition about them!! No one is stopping you. If we all felt that strongly about MILK and CIGS we would petition. I don't smoke and milk sucks.

AND YES, $1-1.5 a song would make me happier....

Would $2.50/gallon make you happy?

mshulman
04-13-2007, 02:10 PM
All I know is if they are going to charge about 160pts/song then I should be able to pick the songs I want. The 2 songs I want are "Bark at the Moon" and "Killer Queen". To get those, I would have to pay 1000 points and get 4 additional songs that I don't really care about. I would much rather have to pay around 300 pts for the 2 songs I actually want.


Also, as for who sets the price, I don't know. But in the posts I've read, Major Nelson has said that MS doesn't make set the price, Red Octane does. That would mean the developer sets the price.....HOWEVER...did the publisher of Gears of War want to make some maps available for free and Microsoft wouldn't let them? There was a deal that the maps would cost MS points for now and then will be free in a few months. Somebody is responsible for setting the price, but nobody is taking responsibility.

What I heard about the whole maps/gears of war issue is that Epic wanted the maps on the site for free and MS charges to publish content to the marketplace. So I believe the argument was that Epic didn't want to PAY MS their fee to put the content up on the marketplace.

I certainly don't blame MS for charging a small fee for content distributed on the service. Why Epic made a stink about it is beyond me. They could have put it up there for $2, covered MS's cost, made a little money and people still would have been happy.

beezdeez
04-13-2007, 03:01 PM
and gas is 3 dollars a gallon......cigs are 4 dollars a pack, gallon of milk is 3.50...point is their are a lot of other things people should be petitioning about. 2.08 per song what would make you happy? 1.50, 1.75? who cares. it's a game for crying out loud enjoy it.

What? I don't even know what kind of point you are trying to make with this. If you are comparing songs to gas, milk and cigarettes, you're comparing apples to wristwatches.

Here is what people are missing. We have been told the whole tracklist for the first GH will be available for download. At the going rate they have established, it would cost more than we paid for the game with 70+ and the guitar to have that whole setlist downloaded.

That is what is pissing people off. And it makes sense too. I really don't know anyone, even people with money to spare, that wouldn't think "damn, $100 for the whole tracklist from GH1?"

Noct
04-19-2007, 03:34 PM
I have to agree there, I was under the impression I would get 70 REAL songs for "free", and maybe spend another $20 to get the OLD songs they had already created.

Talk about double duty...if I had already bought GH1 I would be livid that I had to pay for any of this old content again, especially when we are not talking about simply covering the cost of MS marketplace.
They are making money hand over fist on this stuff.

Besides that, maybe it is because I'm over 30, but their might as well have only been 48(?) songs in GH2.
I have never heard of a single one of the unlockable "bonus tracks", or any of those bands for that matter.
Well...I did recognize that MetalApocolapse band, but thats just cuz I watch too many cartoons...

godson
04-20-2007, 01:25 AM
But you dont have to buy it. When the game was about to launch,they said there will be X amount of songs....you,me and everyone else bought the game knowing it had said amount of songs....they wanna offer more songs at cost,fine. Why not? Is it pricey,yea I said that too....but they didnt slight me in doing so. Hell if the PS2 version only had 20 songs it wouldnt have mattered cause there was no viable DL system to get more tracks,now that there is everyone bitching. I bought them,I'll continue to buy them...if you dont want them,dont buy them.....why is it anymore thatn that? And what ever made anyone in their right mind think they were gonna give you all these extra songs? Does anyone do that? Want more maps and goodies in RS6? Pay for them. Want more cars in TDU? Buy them...eh and some they'll give you for free. But if they didnt offer either of those for those games,not including the other games like it,how are we getting slighted?

mshulman
04-20-2007, 09:57 AM
I still think the pricing is reasonable - all the explanations I have heard for the prices are reasonable too.

I ended up buying all 3 packs myself.

For all those that are complaining, maybe you'd prefer we go back to the days of no DLC where the only way we can add more value to the game is to buy the next release.

If 500 points for 3 songs is going to extend the entertainment value of the game, then why not? If you really think about how much time you spend playing the songs, you'll see its a pretty good value.

pjc
04-20-2007, 11:07 AM
I still think the pricing is reasonable - all the explanations I have heard for the prices are reasonable too.

I ended up buying all 3 packs myself.

For all those that are complaining, maybe you'd prefer we go back to the days of no DLC where the only way we can add more value to the game is to buy the next release.

If 500 points for 3 songs is going to extend the entertainment value of the game, then why not? If you really think about how much time you spend playing the songs, you'll see its a pretty good value.

I'd just like to be able to choose my songs. I think 200pts/song is fair, heck, if I could choose my songs, I would pay 600pts for 3 songs. The thing is, i only want 2 songs in 2 packs, so 1000 pts. for 2 songs is a bit steep IMHO, though if it's worth it to you, by all means. I won't criticize anyone for buying.

Trantzz
04-20-2007, 12:37 PM
I still think the pricing isn't what it should be. I am not going to bore anyone with more MATH, but the numbers don't make sense to me.

I would be for 500 points for three songs IF I could purchase some kind of "value pack" of all three packs for 1200-1300 points, SOME KIND of BULK discount.

mshulman
04-20-2007, 12:56 PM
I still think the pricing isn't what it should be. I am not going to bore anyone with more MATH, but the numbers don't make sense to me.

I would be for 500 points for three songs IF I could purchase some kind of "value pack" of all three packs for 1200-1300 points, SOME KIND of BULK discount.

The numbers are not as simple as many want to make it. Just because GH1 came with 40 songs for $40 does not mean they can sell each song for $1. (If its not 40 songs for $40, that's fine - I'm just using this as reference...)

They may have had a single cost associated with using the songs in GH1. For DLC with GH2, they may have to license it and pay per song. In addition, each song or pack of songs needs to be tested and go through the whole certification process. Saves time for them to bundle. I don't see them selling them in various quantities, but it does raise the question of how much could they have sold them for if all 3 packs were only available as a 1 pack download?

I can totally understand how many people don't like the pricing, but I can't understand why so many feel a lower price can be justified so easily. There's just a lot more behind the scenese that we don't know about.

Trantzz
04-20-2007, 01:35 PM
The numbers are not as simple as many want to make it. Just because GH1 came with 40 songs for $40 does not mean they can sell each song for $1. (If its not 40 songs for $40, that's fine - I'm just using this as reference...)

They may have had a single cost associated with using the songs in GH1. For DLC with GH2, they may have to license it and pay per song. In addition, each song or pack of songs needs to be tested and go through the whole certification process. Saves time for them to bundle. I don't see them selling them in various quantities, but it does raise the question of how much could they have sold them for if all 3 packs were only available as a 1 pack download?

I can totally understand how many people don't like the pricing, but I can't understand why so many feel a lower price can be justified so easily. There's just a lot more behind the scenese that we don't know about.

Yes, I don't pretend to know everything regarding the process. I can say that I have spent an embarassing amount of time on the offical GH website. A couple folks there actually broke down the cost per song the license. FROM MEMORY it was less then 10 cents per song.

In your example: If they sell 40 songs for $40, and have to put those songs on a DVD, and then ship out that DVD to retailers all over the world for distribution..... I don't understand how it could cost 100% MORE to offer the SAME CONTENT via DLC?

I have said this before, MAYBE it takes the entire staff to recode the "falling colored ball game engine" in order to offer DLC. Maybe it cost milions to lay down bass tracks and program the Co-Op tracks on the DLC songs...if that's the case FINE, but at least give the 10,000+ fans upset over the price a reason....