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Toshiba not so impressed by Blu-ray's victory cries

eHDMI
03-19-2007, 06:04 PM
Toshiba has rejected claims made yesterday at a Blu-ray press conference at CeBIT that its own HD DVD format is failing. Olivier Van Wynendaele, Deputy General manager of HD DVD at Toshiba Ltd said the claims were "propaganda" and then proceeded to dispute them point by point in a call to tech.co.uk

Last Thursday Blu-ray Disc Association chairman Frank Simonis said that Blu-ray discs were now out-selling HD DVDs by 3:1 in the US - a claim Van Wynendaele disputes.

Van Wynendaele argues that the reason for the disparity is that new owners of PlayStation 3 games console are simply redeeming free Blu-ray movie vouchers given to them by Sony that they have to exchange at retail stores - this is distorting genuine sales figures, according to Van Wynendaele.

He counter-claimed by declaring that Toshiba had sold 200,00 HD DVD players in the US, compared to just 30,000 true Blu-ray players. Van Wynendaele said that the two million PS3 sales could not be counted because there was no guarantee that people who were buying the consoles were: a) choosing to buy movies with their own money; or b) actually watching Blu-ray movies at all - the vast majority could be using the PS3 to play games on, for example. The truth is, he said, that neither format could claim victory when high def player sales accounted for less than 1% of regular DVD player sales - in the US at least.

Van Wynendaele also said that Toshiba's player pricing strategy would still put its HD DVD format at an advantage when compared to Blu-ray. He said Sony's decision to offer a lower-priced player later in the year would be undercut by Toshiba.

He also said the company's own research had confirmed that even at 450, many people still believe HD format players to be too expensive when compared to the bargain basement prices offered by supermarkets on DVD players. Toshiba launched a 449 1080p HD DVD player - the HD-EP10 - last week. Blu-ray players currently sell for around 1,000.

You can read part 2 of tech.co.uk's interview with Van Wynendaele later today...

Source (http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/high-definition/news/toshiba-rejects-blu-ray-victory-claim?articleid=943604279)

borromini
03-19-2007, 10:04 PM
It's going to be like a tennis match with lots of volleys back and forth.

Big Red
03-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Van Wynendaele also said that Toshiba's player pricing strategy would still put its HD DVD format at an advantage when compared to Blu-ray. He said Sony's decision to offer a lower-priced player later in the year would be undercut by Toshiba.
So I guess this means we will see a $300 HD DVD player by Toshiba at this years end.

If they do that and other companies also bring out $300 players ( like Onkyo, RCA and Sanyo) and market them right, they will sell like hotcakes.

sufs
03-20-2007, 05:21 AM
Onkyo would make an expenive model to match the XA-2 and so share it's 999 MSRP price or 799 now. Good to see they are callling Sony on the BS cause a lot of average joes can't do this.

rockaway1836
03-20-2007, 06:53 AM
RCA is no longer in the game at all. Sanyo seems to be missing in action. I have seen nothing about them making a player in quite some time.

fryet
03-20-2007, 03:39 PM
"Van Wynendaele argues that the reason for the disparity is that new owners of PlayStation 3 games console are simply redeeming free Blu-ray movie vouchers given to them by Sony that they have to exchange at retail stores - this is distorting genuine sales figures, according to Van Wynendaele."

To my knowledge, some HD-DVD sellers are also allowing customers "to choose free movies as well when they purchase a HD-DVD player. Distortion is happening on both sides. BR isn't going to stop giving out the free movies with a PS3 purchase, so the sales figures are going to continue to be "distorted."

"He counter-claimed by declaring that Toshiba had sold 200,00 HD DVD players in the US, compared to just 30,000 true Blu-ray players. Van Wynendaele said that the two million PS3 sales could not be counted because there was no guarantee that people who were buying the consoles were: a) choosing to buy movies with their own money; or b) actually watching Blu-ray movies at all - the vast majority could be using the PS3 to play games on"

He can discount PS3 sales all he wants, but apparently enough of those 2 million PS3 owners are buying BR DVDs to give BR the lead in disc sales.

The bottom line is that if Toshiba wants to disprove the sales figures, they are going to need to change the data in future months - i.e. make sure that they are the ones with the sales lead.

rockaway1836
03-20-2007, 04:35 PM
"Van Wynendaele argues that the reason for the disparity is that new owners of PlayStation 3 games console are simply redeeming free Blu-ray movie vouchers given to them by Sony that they have to exchange at retail stores - this is distorting genuine sales figures, according to Van Wynendaele."

There was no free movie voucher with the PS3. There were some $10 rebate coupons. So he's wrong on that point.

RedSIinPA
03-23-2007, 01:49 PM
I really can't wait until this "format war" is over so the debate can end. It's making me ill. I need to stop reading these threads.

BobY
03-23-2007, 03:07 PM
Actually, this is where the distortion comes in:

Toshiba and/or dealers gave HD DVD discs away for free--those movies *don't* get counted in the sales figures for HD DVD.

Sony gave rebate coupons, so the users had to buy a BD disc (at a discount), which then *did* get counted in the sales figures for BD.

Sony's approach was better for artificially inflating sales figures, Toshiba's was more consumer-friendly, but not a great tactic for stimulating sales of discs...

paulc
03-24-2007, 02:01 PM
A pox on both of these tech titans. Vote with your wallet, don't buy into EITHER!

Lee Stewart
03-24-2007, 02:17 PM
RCA is no longer in the game at all. Sanyo seems to be missing in action. I have seen nothing about them making a player in quite some time.

Not altogether true. RCA name is owned by Thomson Electronics - a French CE (David Sarnoff must be doing about 5000 RPM in his grave) And Studio Canal is an HD DVD supporter.

That RCA unit was a rebadged Toshiba A1 so TE really hasn't released an HD DVD player yet. But with the dropping prices here in USA - may not happen.

JohninTenn
03-24-2007, 03:39 PM
History repeats itself. A lot of people said beta was better. With that being said why did VHS win?

Lee Stewart
03-24-2007, 04:19 PM
History repeats itself. A lot of people said beta was better. With that being said why did VHS win?

Beta was better PQ and AQ but it had a VERY glaring weakness when it came out - 1 hour record. VHS won because it had 2 hour record so a movie would fit.

That was it - only reason VHS got the big head start.

Same reason why so few bought into LD - it didn't record - at a time when the DVR didn't exist

There are NO glaring weakness's in HD DVD if that's what you are eluding to. On the other hand BD has released a product that is unfinished (BD-J) and it seems one of the neutral studio's has had enough of holding back HD DVD on the account of this - The reason why THE MATRIX TRIOLGY is only being released on HD DVD initially.

rockaway1836
03-24-2007, 05:36 PM
Not altogether true. RCA name is owned by Thomson Electronics - a French CE (David Sarnoff must be doing about 5000 RPM in his grave) And Studio Canal is an HD DVD supporter.

That RCA unit was a rebadged Toshiba A1 so TE really hasn't released an HD DVD player yet. But with the dropping prices here in USA - may not happen.


I was just talking about the RCA player. Just about everyone here knows that it was really a Tosh. I wasn't going to get in to Studio Canal , but since you brought it up. This in French, but you will get the jist.
http://www.worldinhd.com/movabletype/archives/2007/02/studio_canal_la.html

Again, most people here know who owns RCA. And they happen to be members of the BDA.
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

Lee Stewart
03-24-2007, 05:46 PM
Again, most people here know who owns RCA. And they happen to be members of the BDA.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

Well they are not exclusive as they are releasing HD DVD's

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=38159

rockaway1836
03-24-2007, 05:51 PM
You can't have it both ways Either Tosh make the player or RCA does. We already know makes it. If RCA were still involved, why is there only a launch player and nothing more?
Here's a list of members of the HD DVD Promotion Group. Let me know if you see them on it.
http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

Lee Stewart
03-24-2007, 06:06 PM
You can't have it both ways Either Tosh make the player or RCA does. We already know makes it. If RCA were still involved, why is there only a launch player and nothing more?
Here's a list of members of the HD DVD Promotion Group. Let me know if you see them on it.
http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

Don't need to look. That is the USA Forum. There has been a European HD DVD Forum assembled about a week or so ago. Is Lions Gate on that list? Cause they are supporting HD DVD in Europe.

Google CeBit 2007 - you will see the announcements

rockaway1836
03-24-2007, 06:10 PM
What the hell does Lion's Gate got to do with the subject at hand? This thread is about players. Do you always try to change the subject when proven wrong?

Lee Stewart
03-24-2007, 06:38 PM
What the hell does Lion's Gate got to do with the subject at hand? This thread is about players. Do you always try to change the subject when proven wrong?


Proven wrong about what? RCA was a rebadged Toshiba. Well known fact. TE made a committiment for a certain number of players . .just like Sony did with Pioneer. We don't know if TE is going to release in France. Here in USA - prices are dropping very quickly so it is hard to "roll your own" and make any money.

This is the point.

rockaway1836
03-24-2007, 08:16 PM
You were wrong about RCA still being in the game.You know Pioneer made the Sony player, right? While Toshiba made the RCA. So it's the reverse senerio.

Lee Stewart
03-25-2007, 05:00 AM
You were wrong about RCA still being in the game.You know Pioneer made the Sony player, right? While Toshiba made the RCA. So it's the reverse senerio.

I'm sorry . . . is the "game" over yet?