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The be all end all "should I get my set callibrated" answer

flair1111
02-28-2007, 06:38 PM
YES!!! I used the DVE disk and this was the best I could do on my own. I used these settings for about a year. i then got it callibrated by Chad Billheimer and after 2 weeks i still cannot belive how "off" my set really was. The greyscale was out alot and getting this adjusted alone is well worth the money. So yes get your set callibrated and you will be glad you did.

paulc
03-01-2007, 09:25 AM
Color I can't see paying to "calibrate to a specific standard" as that standard does not take into account my eyes, but grayscale is a whole 'nother issue. I would very much appreciate whatever specifics you could supply as to what exactly was so much better after a professional calibration.

Lee Stewart
03-01-2007, 12:01 PM
One of the most important goals of calibration is to achieve the highest difference between Black and White levels without sacrificing other values like Grey Scale. The greater the CR (eye "seen" not published numbers) the more we fool the brain into thinking its 3D not 2D.

Whatever values he gives you will not allow you to simple duplicate his setting . . .avoid the $300+ and call your set calibrated.

The technican is going to go into the service menus to make further adjustments to fine tune the image.

As they say on Mythbusters . . . "Don't Try This At Home!"

You can do untold damage to your display if you start messing with the Service Menu's and there is no "default" to reset them to original factory setting like ther could be with the Picture Control (contrast, brightness, etc.)

flair1111
03-01-2007, 05:30 PM
Color I can't see paying to "calibrate to a specific standard" as that standard does not take into account my eyes, but grayscale is a whole 'nother issue. I would very much appreciate whatever specifics you could supply as to what exactly was so much better after a professional calibration.
To be more specific, The whites in the image is indeed very white without the slightest hint of yellow or dinggyness(sp?) to it. The blacks on my set were originally hiding shades 1-8 on Chads 10 shade graph he used. He fixed that to show all shades. He set the color, tint, contrast,sharpness, and messed with alot of service menu settings which effected everything more than I can explain. . It just allowed alot more detail to be seen in anything I watch now. The colors are more lifelike and pure. Its like looking through a dusty window with sunglasses, then removing the glasses and the window altogether and stepping outside. You just have to see it to belive it. Ill be callibrating all TVs I own from this point forward, its that big of a difference to my eyes. The DVE disk didnt even come close. The service menus and a good callibration is the key IMO.

Lee Stewart
03-01-2007, 06:22 PM
Very glad to hear about the fine job your technican did for you. Don't forget , when talking to friends, neighbors, co-workers and such that if they have a decent HDTV, it will make a world of differnce and money well spent.

If they are thinking of getting into HDTV to make sure that when they start a budget (always wise) for their HDTV, they add the Calabration fee as a starting point . .not $0. More would see what their set can really do, even if they think they have a good picture.

The DVD based "test and setup" disc's do a good job as a starting point. It gets people to at least see what they should see, as opposed to the "torch bright" image they saw at the store.

WARNING - STAY AWAY FROM THE SERVICE MENU'S

Unless you have the proper training, EXPERIENCE, and tools . . .you will NOT be successful. . . .only disaster.

paulc
03-02-2007, 09:23 AM
The blacks on my set were originally hiding shades 1-8 on Chads 10 shade graph he used.

Curious what "Chad" is, although I surmise it's a ten step grayscale chart of some sort (is this something on a DVD?). When you say "hiding" do you mean that this ten step chart only displayed 2 shades?

Curious what Doug may say, but I generally think of white or black with no color cast to them as being the ideal and that if there ARE color casts to them, it a "color" issue, not so much a grayscale issue (yes, I DO think that grayscale DOES have an effect on an actual color). In my experience going too high on the chroma control is one way to induce color casts on pure white or black. At the point where I can induce a color cast, I also "see" all colors being nuclear. Pretty much every post I've read, here or at AVS, where someone posts their UI settings I find they all run their chroma controls at double what I run (typically, "they" run 50 out of 100 while I run 25 out of 100).

Lee Stewart
03-02-2007, 10:38 AM
PAUL:

What you are describing is Color Temperture, - the tinting of B & W. The Color control only regulates the color saturation (think of it like a volume control - too loud - NG . . . to low - also NG.

Color Temp. is measured on the Kelvin scale. As with NTSC, HDTV "perfect" CT is 6500K. Higher and we see more blue, lower and we see more red. You can't adjust the CT using the Color control.

You can adjust the CT by changing the "picture mode." Some give 3, 4 or 5 different settings. Warm, Cool, Normal(Cool adds blue, Warm adds red), etc. These are gross setting. You only have say 5 choices. No refinement within the choice. Unless you go into the service menu (DON'T).

There is an old adage in calabration:

"If the set can't do proper B & W . . . it can't do Color either."

flair1111
03-02-2007, 04:52 PM
:D Curious what "Chad" is, although I surmise it's a ten step grayscale chart of some sort (is this something on a DVD?). When you say "hiding" do you mean that this ten step chart only displayed 2 shades?

Curious what Doug may say, but I generally think of white or black with no color cast to them as being the ideal and that if there ARE color casts to them, it a "color" issue, not so much a grayscale issue (yes, I DO think that grayscale DOES have an effect on an actual color). In my experience going too high on the chroma control is one way to induce color casts on pure white or black. At the point where I can induce a color cast, I also "see" all colors being nuclear. Pretty much every post I've read, here or at AVS, where someone posts their UI settings I find they all run their chroma controls at double what I run (typically, "they" run 50 out of 100 while I run 25 out of 100).
"Chad" is the guys name.:D

d6500k
03-02-2007, 11:43 PM
In my experience going too high on the chroma control is one way to induce color casts on pure white or black

With the "color" chroma control turned up too high one thing is certain, any errors in the displays grayscale and color decoders will be exagerated. You will also notice that in displays where the color decoders are maladjusted, certain colors (normally red but greens/blues happen as well) a preponderance of the over driven color will be present. To eliminate this anomoly, not to be confused with the grayscale, it is necessary to manipulate the decoders. If that is not possible, then a reduction of the chroma control is necessary.

Grayscale is comprised of all the colors a display can generate. When these colors are equalized at a specific temperature and at a specific point on the black body curve, you will achieve a stable grayscale at the specific point desired. D54 at 5400k was the standard for early b/w films. It is why they had a warm sepia tone in theaters. D65 at 6503k is the standard for todays color films.

Here is a quick wiki that is cleaner than my verbiage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D65

Back to Chad! Glad he once again did it right. A top notch persnickety calibrator.

Doug k

Lee Stewart
03-03-2007, 07:04 AM
D6500K:

Not to try to put your industry out of a job, but with all HDTV's being digital based, how come the manufacturer can't give us one setting call 6500K and BE 6500K?

d6500k
03-03-2007, 12:03 PM
how come the manufacturer can't give us one setting call 6500K and BE 6500K?

#1. Money and Time
Many of the newest displays are getting so much closer to 6500k, but it take a bit more to reach the D65 point. Even with an all digital display, the circuits aboard are not all equal, thus a stable set of numbers thrown at the displays will not always yield the same results. They would actually have to have a tech at the end of the line to measure every set. At least this is so with todays technology.

#2. Publics tastes
Americans like bigger, brighter bolder. Manufacturers know this better than anything. If they could make a display that shoots flames from the speakers, they would to catch the average joe's eye.
A calibrated display will be accurate. Certainly muted from the blazingly high color temps shown on the showroom floor. Accuracy in vision is alot like accuracy in sound. Only the descriminating American will go the steps nesessary to arrive at a level where they can see and hear a very close approximation of the artists intent.

#3. Installation scenarios
Every setup will eventually land into a home. Each home will have different lighting. With projectors, different screens come into play. Different components (dvd players, dvr's etc) will change the mix to a small or large degree.


Great question though Lee. I hope I've rendered an accurate picture for you. :)

Doug k

Lee Stewart
03-03-2007, 12:38 PM
If they could make a display that shoots flames from the speakers, they would to catch the average joe's eye.

Well you definitely did to things:

1. Answered my question

2. Made me laugh my ass off!

Going to be hard to top that one for quote of the day!