High Def Forum
Thank you for visiting. This is our website archive. Please visit our main website by clicking the logo above.

Help!

cogozaly23
11-29-2006, 10:57 AM
Exactly 3 months ago I purchased a Pioneer 42in PDP4270 Plasma HDTV. This week I noticed some burn in/retention/. Whatever you want to call it. (Two bugs on the right and one on the left) I contacted Pioneer and the guy suggested I watch non-bugged TV for 24 hours. I've watched about 11 or 12 hours so far and I've noticed no change. I'm in panic mode and I'm worried that my gorgeous new TV is going to be ruined.

More info. TV purchased at Best Buy. I've have had the contrast below 50% for the entire life of the television. I've never paused on the plasma or played video games on it. I would say I average 4 hours of watching TV a night and double that on college football Saturdays.

Anyone else have this problem? Is Pioneer going to help me out if the burn in doesn't go away? Any info or suggesions would be great!

Bigloww
11-29-2006, 11:08 AM
Based off the way you have treated it so far, it sounds like you got a bad apple:( . From what I know, Pioneer is 1 of the better plasmas at combating image retention. We have like 20 of them at work and use it for displays/ tickers etc, with no IR issues. I had my plasma for over a year now. I play allot of PC/360/PS2 games on it, and no issues so far. But it is a concern that has to be watched as all plasmas are susceptible, some more than others. I would keep trying what they ask. Try keeping it on a snow channel over night. If this doesn't help, keep bugging Pioneer. They may fix and or replace it. Most have burn in as not covered under the manufacturer warranty. But I don't know about Pioneer. Did you get any kind of extended warranty?

xepherys
11-29-2006, 11:15 AM
This is one of the reasons I push LCDs so hard. Yes, Plasmas have come a LONG, LONG way regarding burn-in. Yes, Pioneer is near the front of that pack. In the end, this is always possible. :-/ I'm sorry you are having problems. I know I'd be frantic myself. Best of luck getting it taken care of. Pioneer generally is good at helping people out!

BobY
11-29-2006, 11:27 AM
First do what Panasonic suggested (which you haven't completed yet--did they mean 24 hours straight through or 24 hours total?). Then, if you still have the images, try running it for a while on a unused channel so the screen is full of snow. The randomizing effect should help reduce the retained image faster than normal broadcast.

Based on your description, it sounds like it's not your fault. It may be better to take it up with the store than Panasonic, though. Most stores aren't as picky on product returns as they end up dumping defective returns in the manufacturers lap anyhow. What's the store's return policy?

cogozaly23
11-29-2006, 12:12 PM
I did buy the Best Buy 4 year extended warrenty. However, burn in, isn't covered. I'll try the snow idea as well. More suggestions are welcomed or if anyone has gone through this with pioneer/best buy or with different companies and would like to share what worked and what didn't....that would also be great!

chooseyourtv
11-29-2006, 12:54 PM
I have seen pioneers do this before. Goto your settings and make sure pixel shift is on and there is software that can try to clear out the pixels. Some pioneers don't have the softwar but you can download it (Can't remember where) and play in via a video source. Usually will run for 45 minutes to 3 hours.

This will usually help, it basically turns all pixels white and runs through a variety of colors.

Plasma tv's are more acceptable to burn in when they haven't been running very long. When a plasma is not warmed up the xenon and neon gas release ultraviolet photons the photons burn hotter. Sometimes the burn in is only skin deep. However if it burns your magnesium oxide layer then there is nothing that can be done.

Blintok
11-29-2006, 02:07 PM
This is one of the reasons I push LCDs so hard. Yes, Plasmas have come a LONG, LONG way regarding burn-in. Yes, Pioneer is near the front of that pack. In the end, this is always possible. :-/ I'm sorry you are having problems. I know I'd be frantic myself. Best of luck getting it taken care of. Pioneer generally is good at helping people out!


Dont push too hard. LCD can and does get image retention. Dell w2600 26in LCD. Played a few hours of Darkage of camelot. Icons and images remained on screen (image retention) it faded over time.
Viewsonic VG800 18in LCD. used as security camera monitor. if you switch screens you can see the outline from the former screen.

same system was used on a CRT 19in monitor and it too had retention - thot it was burned in for good. But when the CRT was put doing other work(internet surfing) the camera system images slowly faded away.

so just be aware that LCD can and does get image retention.

xepherys
11-29-2006, 02:50 PM
CRTs can, but LCDs really cannot. If they're getting burn-in, something else is wrong with them. LCD work by applying voltage to liquid crystals which twist to reflect different light. The liquid crystals themselves contain no color and do not more more slowly on or off over time. The only issue you can sometimes have with LCDs are "stuck" pixels or "dead" pixels. Sometimes dead pixels are actually stuck pixels stuck in a position to block light. Stuck pixels can usually be "rubbed" out. Dead pixels (truly dead pixels) are dead, and you are SOL. Usually pixels don't become dead from use, however. Pixels die do to trauma to the screen, either during manufacturing, shipping or moving. Once an LCD set is out in your living room, assuming nothing slams against it (pets, kids, rubber balls, Wiimotes) they really should not die.

One caveat to this is OLD LCDs where transition times were slower. Sometimes if the crystals had been twisted to the same position for a long time, the would take much longer to reset (similar to what you are saying about the Dell, though it should be far too new to have this issue). I work with a lot of LCD displays attached to computers that either sit at a static desktop for days (or weeks or months) or sit on screen where the bulk of the screen does not change. These are often at high, if not full, brightness. I've never seen one have image retention issues. I've had my laptop sit on the same (static) screen for days at a time with no ill effects. *shrug*

BamaPanda
11-29-2006, 02:58 PM
Amazing thing is Pioneer denies any possibility of burn in. I actually called them, and they were adamant that they have no burn in probs.
Maybe this company stance would open some options for you.
Before I would buy any PDP, I would want more than one method built into the set deal with burn in - to help prevent it, and if it happens - to rectify the problem.
Hope you get some good results.

PS: Pioneer is a great set. The burn in stance is ridiculous, though.

BobY
11-29-2006, 06:20 PM
You're in good shape then.

If Pioneer denies that burn-in is possible on their PDP's, then you clearly have a defective display which the store should take back under your warranty. After all, it's not a burn-in problem according to the manufacturer, so something else must be wrong.

BamaPanda
11-29-2006, 07:39 PM
From what I know, Pioneer is 1 of the better plasmas at combating image retention. We have like 20 of them at work and use it for displays/ tickers etc, with no IR issues.

What can a mfg. do to combat IR ? As far as Pioneer is concerned, I finally did find out they have an orbitor in their PDP's - and that is all - AFAIK. I do not know if it is automatic, or if the consumer has to turn it on. I think most of the top brands do at least that.
The reason I ask is that I would think any of the top brands use the best panels that are out there. I can't recall exactly - but there is no more than 5 actual mfg. of PDP panels (may be less).
If Pioneer, Samsung, LG, Panasonic (and some others I am sure) all use really good panels - what else can they do?:what:

chooseyourtv
11-29-2006, 09:51 PM
CRTs can, but LCDs really cannot. If they're getting burn-in, something else is wrong with them.

Well I don't know where you get your info on LCD technology, but LCD's can get burn-in / Image Retention. But I will let Samsung do the talking for me.

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200602/20060222193454984_BN68-00998A-01.pdf

Check out the part "Precautions When Displaying a Still Image"

Quote from User manual for Samsung LCD: "Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention.
This image retention is also known as "screen burn".
To avoid such image retention,"

xepherys
11-29-2006, 10:38 PM
*shrug* I'm just saying that, in my experience with LCDs, which is plentiful, I've never seen an image burn in. Manufacturers of hair dryers also put labels on telling you not to use it in the tub, but in reality, it won't liekly kill you (breakers). It's just a good precaution.

chooseyourtv
11-29-2006, 10:42 PM
*shrug* I'm just saying that, in my experience with LCDs, which is plentiful, I've never seen an image burn in. Manufacturers of hair dryers also put labels on telling you not to use it in the tub, but in reality, it won't liekly kill you (breakers). It's just a good precaution.

That is a good point. In my experience older Laptop screens do, but most new ones don't. I think it depends on the LCD manufactuer and what technology they use to light their screens. Some Samsung and expessially sony can burn in just a couple of hours. Others you could run all week.