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Which 27inch HDTV to buy?

JamesTurnerNH
12-09-2004, 01:59 PM
Hey. I'm looking to buy a 27 inch HDTV CRT monitor. Price, while a concern, is not at issue.

Choices include Sony, Samsung (the one with the HD turner and the one without), Panasonic, Phillips, and Magnavox. Besides the obviously-not-an-option Advent, I don't believe there are any others widely available at the moment. Please correct me on this if I'm wrong.

Anyways, I have a few concerns. Obviously, the first and foremost is which of those will have the best picture quality. This applies to HD broadcasts, progressive scaning from DVDs, and standard broadcast television. Because of the limited availability of HD-broadcasting in my area (rural NH), standard broadcasting is really my biggest concern. I've read that SD tv will always have a flicker on an HD tube - is this true? If so, should I stay away from an HD tube until I have more HD programming available?

If this isn't true, does SD tv look better on the HD tube than on a standard tv? All of the product manufacturers of course claim that they have fancy up-conversions, etc that make standard television look great compared to on a regular set. Is this really the case?

Any help you can offer me would be greatly (GREATLY) appreciated, as the available, reliable information on 27 inch tube HDTVs out there is practically non-existent.

Thanks a million.

James Turner
[email protected]

cid3
12-09-2004, 02:16 PM
Hey James,

I have the Samsung TX-P2764 (HD-Ready, not built in) and while I've had problems with a couple sets, I'm pretty satisfied with it. I have a couple threads where I talk about it if you care to read them. I've only watched SD programming with DirecTV and personally I think the picture is better sometimes, and worse other times (no flickering of any sort though, dunno what the person was talking about). Watching SD with an HDTV I think you notice more flaws in a programs picture because of the higher resolution of the tv I suppose. Progressive scan dvd's look insane, the colors are perfect and and nothing distorted or weird flickering anywhere.

Feel free to ask any other questions 8)

JamesTurnerNH
12-09-2004, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the info. One other thing at issue would be xbox compatibility. Well I know that I can do 480p with the Xbob, it's my understanding that xbox hi-def is transmitted in 720p, something which no 27 inchers seem to support. Anyone know anything about this?

cid3
12-09-2004, 02:29 PM
I dont have any 720p xbox games, but I have played a few 480p ones (like Ninja Gaiden) and it looks great. I'm not sure if a 720p would be up-converted to 1080i or not. The TX-P2775H and TX-P2675WH do 720p and they have built-in HD. The 2775 is 4:3 and 2675 is 16:9.

Xplorer
12-09-2004, 03:09 PM
I believe the xbox outputs whatever game resolution you are playing

after you choose the settings in the xbox control panel
480p/720p/1080i

then your TV scales it to whatever its' native resolution is

all this if your using the Y,Pb,Pr (HD Pac) to hook up

.
found a couple reviews on 27"ers
http://reviews.cnet.com/4502-6475_7-0.html?tag=pick&orderby=&qt=&100021id=&1000036id=&500961id=11437&500963id=7784036&501490id=10847&500965id=11926

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_techspecs_full.php/masterid=3111868

I've seen this 34" XBR WOW ! stunning picture
http://reviews.cnet.com/Direct_View_TVs__CRT_/4540-6481_7-30787600-4.html?tag=tab

curious why a 27" (your not trying to fit into an e-center,are you?)

Good Luck :)

JamesTurnerNH
12-09-2004, 03:27 PM
Why 27 - my biggest concern at the moment is regular TV and maximum display size with a 4:3 image. 26 inchers are pretty, but really you're talking about a 20inch diagonal display with 4:3, unless you enlarge it. That's just too small, as I'm upgrading from a 20 inch. A 30 or 34 would be great, but it's just too expensive. I'm looking to spend under 700 bucks, and for the price it's really just a 26 or 27 inch option. Thus screen size on a 4:3 image prevails...

Xplorer
12-09-2004, 04:05 PM
ooooooh OK , I see where your coming from :)

so have you ever looked at the sets walmart has to offer ?
they have a few 30-32" sets for around $750 (697-798)
I would provide a link but the site is down right now

also as far as screen-size check this out http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi

I think the plus's of HDTV and Widescreen that are available in todays market
greatly out weigh what one can view with a SD 4:3
just IMHO

here's a page of 28-32" $800 and less (just to make ya think ;) )
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php?page_id=80&sortby=rating&vendors%5B%5D=0&popup10%5B%5D=40%3A1022&popup10_attr_id%5B%5D=1022&popup15%5B%5D=10%3A998&popup15_attr_id%5B%5D=998&popup20%5B%5D=0&popup20_attr_id%5B%5D=395&popup30%5B%5D=0&popup30_attr_id%5B%5D=133&popup40%5B%5D=0&popup40_attr_id%5B%5D=249&popup50%5B%5D=0&popup50_attr_id%5B%5D=260&popup80%5B%5D=0&lo_p=0&hi_p=800&form_keyword=&sortby=priceA

happy hunting...

Xplorer
12-09-2004, 04:14 PM
of course soon as I posted their site responds...

here's a few :

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2601425&cat=136937&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A121791%3A136937

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3207215&cat=136937&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A121791%3A136937

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3207230&cat=136937&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A121791%3A136937

JamesTurnerNH
12-10-2004, 08:02 AM
Hmmm...that's a great price on the Sanyo, don't know if I trust the picture much though.


Well, I went with the Samsung 27, without the integrated tuner. Bestbuy was offering it for 499, which seems like a great deal. So far as I've been able to tell, some people like the picture of the samsung even more than that of the Sony Wega. While this may or may not be true, it's a 250 dollar difference, which is 50% of the cost of my tv. With a 26 inch widescreen costing 650 or more, the Samsung 27 really seems like the best value in terms of screen size.

I love that conversion site. I'd plugged the numbers myself, and just couldn't justify 650 for a 20inch 4:3 picture.

I'll write up a nice, extensive review for the Samsung once it arrives. That is, after I have to return it twice for tube problems. Humph...the toils of 110 pound, fragile deliveries.

Xplorer
12-10-2004, 08:16 AM
Glad to hear ya got what you were looking for

what model # was the Sammy ?

yeah, that 4:3/16:9 conversion table is kinda interesting...

:)

cid3
12-10-2004, 01:08 PM
I'm pretty sure the model number he got is the Samsung TX-P2764, not positive though.

JamesTurnerNH
12-16-2004, 09:25 AM
Yes, it is that model number.

It just arrived yesterday, and after working out all the fine tuning, I am happy to report that it's a beauty. Of course, the fuzziness of my standard cable signal is much more apparent than it was on my 20 inch tv, but that's just obvious and to be expected.

I nearly screamed when I tuned my tv to fuzz to check the consistency of the picture, and noticed an off-color corner in the bottom right hand of the tube. But then I moved my tv slightly (it sits next to my receiver, an Onkyo 6.1), and the coloration went away. Then I moved it back, and it didn't come back. Don't know what that's about - there shouldn't be any magnetic sources around. Do new receivers typically have any sort of pull that may damage tvs? The power-supply side of the Onkyo is awfully close to the tv - should I be worried about this?

There is one thing that's really bothering me, though, and that's compatibility issues with my dvd player. I have an RCA p-scan player that's a few years old. It was the "top of the line" rca player at the time, which I know doesn't mean too much, but it's a nice enough player.

However, the signal (component, p-scan) cuts off about a half inch (maybe more) of picture to either side. The dvd player has three picture modes - 4:3 pan & san, 4:3 letterbox, and 16:9 (what is the difference between those two 4:3 modes, by the way?) - and the same space is cut off no matter which mode I'm in, I've tried all three. It's like the p-scan output defaults to a wide-screen output or something, however, it doesnt' seem like it would be a fully-wide widescreen output, just about an inch more width to the picture than my 27 inch 4:3 tv can display.

Anyone ever have any issues like this? I feel like it may be time for a new DVD player, but I don't want to go out and buy one, as maybe it's something with the Samsung?

rbinck
12-16-2004, 10:36 AM
When you say it cuts off a half inch on either side, is this compared to the old 20" or compared to another input on the Sammy?

JamesTurnerNH
12-16-2004, 12:21 PM
Fair question. This is compared to the 20 inch Toshiba, but by half-an-inch I am estimating based on the picture size of the Samsung. I know it's about a half inch because I remember what the default, no-disc screen looked like on the 20. That, and a small portion of the text on the no-disc screen is cut off.

However, I will have to try connecting it via the s-video or composite connections and see if this changes anything (just to troubleshoot, I have no plans of permanently using either, obviously).

One important note, however. The menu of the rca dvd player, when loaded, starts at the very left of the screen. It did on the Toshiba. It loads to the very left of the Samsung screen also, with no cut-off. Thus the picture being sent to the Samsung is being cut off, but the menu system created by the dvd player is not being cut off.

cid3
12-16-2004, 12:39 PM
I noticed the tv has a pretty big overscan, that could be why its cutting it off. In the service menu you can adjust it be changing the horizontal EW under the 480p menu, but I dunno how important it is to you to do that.

Also with the discoloration in the corner, i had that SAME exact problem with two of those sets. First in the upper left, then on the next set in the lower right. It becomes really noticable if the tv is left on for a period of time, and when its on the blue screen (no signal) the lower right corner is a bright pink; and when viewing a signal, the colors get distorted like theres a green overlay. My receivers underneat the tv but I really doubt it's causing a problem, even when leaving it off it still gets the discoloration. I think it's because of static or something and samsung tech said either exchange (for a fourth set! which there's no way in hell I'm doing) or have a techie come degause it or evaluate.

JamesTurnerNH
12-16-2004, 12:54 PM
Interesting. I will try the service menu - what is the code to get into there?

As for the discoloration - strange indeed. I hope it doesn't come back, as it was there for the first five minutes, went away, and then hasn't appeared again (and I ran the tv, with delight, for a good eight hours last night). Maybe it just had some static issues to work out. I was wearing a wool sweater when I picked it up...

cid3
12-16-2004, 01:05 PM
To get into the service menu

TV has to be off
Press Mute
then 182
then press Power

Also, make sure to write down the original settings before changing anything.

rbinck
12-16-2004, 04:23 PM
That was where I was headed. It sounds like the new TV has more overscan than your old 20. Try to find the parameters for the particulear input and be sure to record where you were, like cid3 suggested.

JamesTurnerNH
12-17-2004, 09:41 AM
That was where I was headed. It sounds like the new TV has more overscan than your old 20. Try to find the parameters for the particulear input and be sure to record where you were, like cid3 suggested.

Brilliant. Why in the world do they default to so much overscan?

Looks beautiful, now. Thanks so much for your help!

Now I just need to think up another excuse to get a new DVD player, one that plays DVD-audio and SACD discs...

rbinck
12-17-2004, 02:03 PM
TVs are not built to the quality of a computer monitor and the picture at or near the edges are hard to get a straight vertical line, so they push the edge out of view. The factory setting is based on the worse case, so everybody else suffers.

Xplorer
12-17-2004, 07:44 PM
TVs are not built to the quality of a computer monitor and the picture at or near the edges are hard to get a straight vertical line, so they push the edge out of view. The factory setting is based on the worse case, so everybody else suffers.I was rather flabbergasted from watching my D.V.E. DVD, that,
that was a Federal Law (maybe still ?) to show NO Border around screen.
The DVE disc goes on stating how people were worried about
these kinda things with this new technology called television...

boy, how far we have come-2004 is COLOR TV's birthday(50 yr old);)

cid3
12-17-2004, 11:00 PM
Just curious, is there any risk of damaging the TV by changing the screens shift left/right/up/down or shrinking/enlarging in the service menu while something is being displayed (dvd/directv/whatever)?

rbinck
12-18-2004, 09:15 PM
No, those adjustments should be fine.

chrisr
12-21-2004, 07:43 AM
I just bought one of these TVs too. I got it at BestBuy and they delivered it but it was DOA.. They are sending out another one tomorrow. I hope that I have better luck.

You can get a really good price on this set. It's on sale this week for 449. They wanted 35 dollars for delivery, but they took that off the price of the set. I used a 10% off BestBuy coupon, so in the end I got the set for $427.98.

Anyone else out there having problems with this set?

cid3
12-21-2004, 04:33 PM
Hah yeah, I've posted about it in this forum a few weeks earlier. I've gone through 3 of these sets, and finally the 4th one had no problems, that I can see so far =/