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Backdoor in both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discovered

ah802
07-07-2006, 10:46 AM
Slash is all up on this

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/07/07/1255224.shtml

Looks like the 'Print Screen' function was overlooked and using script techniques, grabbing the screen, it should be possible to re-essemble the whole movie.

All this DRM is pointless... if Hollywood produced quality movies at a reasonable price, they would have riches beyond their wildest dreams, but as usual... greed holds them back.

µCOM-4
07-07-2006, 03:04 PM
The CP hole seems to only be temporary.

When asked to comment, Toshiba confirmed the security hole found by c't, which affects the computers already sold, and announced updates for the player software and graphics card driver. These new software versions should disable the screenshot function.

According to Toshiba, however, the original WinDVD version does not violate the security stipulations in the AACS LA. Toshiba therefore does not expect the first WinDVD version to be blocked by an update of the AACS key. By switching the keys, which would be necessary for new HD DVD movies, the AACS LA could force users to update their software, thus closing the copy protection hole.

ah802
07-07-2006, 09:17 PM
Recording rights for personal usage, VCR equipment, Xerox and Cassette tape. Then along comes higher resolution and suddenly all is for knot... back to square one.

This is a control issue... nothing more.

Snakes & Ladders.

Revolv
07-13-2006, 08:27 AM
This "hack" is completely impractical, as it would require many, many, hours to capture all the frames, hundreds of gigs of HDD space, and then the re-encoding of the movie, and that's assuming that you could capture the sountrack and get it to stay in sync with the new encode.

Besides, the loophole has been closed by Toshiba already - and you can bet that Sony would have wanted to close it even sooner, but just aren't as on the ball :)

I wouldn't sweat this as bad news for either format ;)

µCOM-4
07-13-2006, 04:44 PM
This "hack" is completely impractical, as it would require many, many, hours to capture all the frames, hundreds of gigs of HDD space, and then the re-encoding of the movie, and that's assuming that you could capture the sountrack and get it to stay in sync with the new encode.

Besides, the loophole has been closed by Toshiba already - and you can bet that Sony would have wanted to close it even sooner, but just aren't as on the ball :)

I wouldn't sweat this as bad news for either format ;)

Well to be fair once you capture all the frames, you have yourself a perfect digital master which can then be recorded on various blank optical media with no copy protection. In other words only the initial copy would take hours or days. All copies thereafter depends on the burner's speed which woud be only a couple hours at 1X speed. Anyway all of this is academic as AACS was designed for key revocation in these kind\s of cases.

degaus
07-29-2006, 06:27 AM
Welcome to the real world. Top corporate execs and politicians all have the dream, minus the understanding, that they should be able to put material like music software and movies in a format that allows it to be "safe" for their own financial interest. Yet lack the understanding that as long as it's put in one device and played into another, or put into the same device and has to be capable of being interpreted by a different data format then someone is always going to be able to capture it and reproduce it. People don't care if it's at a marginal quality from the original. It's just the coolness they feel in getting something for free that I think turns them on.

The people who continue to figure out ways around the mans efforts are turned on by the coolness of doing whats said to not be able to be done. So the harder they try to make it impossible to be done, the higher the glory someone achieves when they just figure out a way to do it. Which is I'll admit pretty cool.

It's hard to impress upon the general public a moral consideration for DRM when you consider the billions of dollars the people behind this industry are making weighed against the billions of people who are end consumers making minimum wage in the US or less in other countries and physicaly working far harder to earn that minimal pay check.

Look at where DVD Burner sales have recently taken off to on just home computers. If people find it affordable to pay $3 to rent a DVD and another $1 to make a copy of it, then that pretty much shows you what is considered a resonable market price for an end product and what people are willing to pay for it. If the movie producers can't make a movie, and be able to resell it at what's considered a fair market price for that product, like $4 say, then they should have to do what any other industry is stuck with doing to meet that demand. Cut overhead cost to get the resale cost down.

When it costs billions of dollars to produce an hour long movie then there is some room in there to cut some cost. The solution isn't in raising the budget to accomidate ways to raise the final cost to the end consumers. When a DVD costs $29 and perople can figure out a way to get the same for free or even just $4 they are going to jump on it, no criminal intent intended. If that same DVD only cost $4 then people would just pay it and not bother with all the trouble in trying to find ways to get around it. If they cut out the legal fees and development fees spent for just copy protection that same $29 DVD would probably only cost $10.

If actors and athletes weren't being paid millions of dollars for a single hour long performance, and instead, something closer to a normal wage, the final cost of the end product would again be closer to resonable and people wouldn't bother with trying to exploit the system.

Exploit human nature instead and use it to your advantage. People love being in the "spotlight", you don't need to pay people millions of dollars to be out there in the public eye, people would compete to do it for free or pay to be there. With the uprise of actors and athletes turning politicians and utilizing the public name they've aquired for themselves, there should be a market in just charging people for that degree of spotlight, not paying them millions for it and passing that cost along to the people earning minimum wage jobs.

Myself, I can't say I've ever downloaded a movie and watched it on my computer, nor wanted to. If it's a movie I realy wanted to see, then I wanted to see it on the big screen with the high tech audio our modern movie theaters have to offer and never felt cheated by ticket prices to do so, but felt completely ripped off by the exagerated concession costs instead. If it's a movie I maybe had no interest in seeing, then I just watch it when it comes out on my premium cable channels. I pay, and find it a worthy investment, for the top package deal my local cable provider offers. I discover alot of great movies I may of otherwise never had any intention of watching. "On Demand" rules, where you can flip through a list of available movies and just watch them when ever you want as if you had the actual DVD copy of the movie and it's only a click from your remote away. Once in a while I'll pay the $3.99 to see a movie with "Pay per View" before it gets released into the on demand options.

If I could google a movie, download it for free, burn it to DVD and watch it on my TV that easy, well, I can't say I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't have any problem paying $3 to do the same though for a movie. I'm not a DVD buyer, once I see a movie, I have no desire to just turn around and watch the same movie again. Sure I've watched many movies several times, but only after vast expanses of time have taken place and I no longer remember all of the fine details of the movie.

The music industry is a little different, you can enjoy hearing a same song over and over. It's not like a movie where you watch it wondering whats going to happen next and if you've already seen the movie you already know whats going to happen next. I do own many music CD's, which I've converted most over to .mp3 format so I can play them on all my media devices.

I will also admit to "illegaly" downloading numerous mp3 files on the internet. In just about every case though, I can honestly say, if it was music I liked after downloading the mp3 I honestly did go out to my local record store and buy the actual CD just to show my support for the artist I enjoyed the music from, as well as buying any other CD's they had to offer. $10 for a music CD I'll listen to over and over in my mind seems justified as opposed to paying $29 or more for a movie I'll only have the interest in watching once, even if I liked it.

The music I've downloaded was also done back in the day when you could basicly just google a song and quickly find the mp3 version of it available for immediate no hassle download. I still consider those the good old days, and have to admit, I haven't bought a single CD or song since those days have come to pass. Now if I want to listen to music I play my old mp3's or just listen to the radio. The radio plays popular songs frequently enough for you to get burnt out on them and never want to hear them again in time.

Times have changed with the advent of the computer, the internet and advances in digital media. Use to be if a person bought a movie or album they;d make some copies of it and pass it along to at best 10 close friends. Now a person can make a copy of the same and dump it on the internet passing it along to millions of people they don't even know.

No argument there, that's going to amount to huge potential profit losses even if the end product was made affordable. All the money wasted trying to combat that effort is just that though, money wasted. The best tactic is in trying to cut cost on the other end in an effort to make the final product more affordable to the point where people won't care about spending $4 verse hunting and downloading, then burning. If actors and professional athletes were getting paid realistic wages in touch with what the rest of society is actually making it would be a huge start in the right direction.
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JohninTenn
07-29-2006, 07:30 AM
They have Macrovision in the SD DVDs The print screen hole isn't a backdoor it's a joke..:) Have no fear someone will figure it out..

fryet
07-31-2006, 05:34 PM
I can't say I really agree with the long post. The Movie industry made the movie, they should be able to charge whatever they want for it. If they charge too much, people just won't buy it. Making a bootleg copy to force prices down is unethical, and results in less money invested in movies, which in the end results in poorer quality movies.

There are, however, a few ways where I think the movie industry has gone too far.
1. Getting laws passed in the US where cracking the code equals breaking the law. There are reasonable uses of cracked code that do not result in illegal copying, but it doesn't matter if cracking the code itself is illegal.
2. Having players enforce their own commands. We have all had situations where you can't skip the previews or the Federal anti-piracy warning, etc. This is my player, it should do what I tell it to do, when I tell it to do it. It is actually one of the main rules of usability for computer applications - let the user be in control. With DVDs, THEY are in control, and you have to let them control your player in order to watch the movie.
3. Restricting DVD use to players encoded for a particular region. If I buy a legal DVD for $5 in Thailand, I should be able to play that DVD on any player in the world, not just those encoded for Thailand. I own that DVD - they chose to sell it for $5. But no, in an effort to maximize profits, they demanded that the hardware manufacturers implement region encoding, ensuring that I can only buy DVDs that I can use in the US and for $20. This isn't a piracy issue, this is just their greed.
4. The downrez flag on the new HD/BR-DVD drives. Once again, I own the player, it should be able to put the best possible picture that the machine is able to produce. If I find a way around their restriction, it should not be a crime to do so (see #1). I own the player and the DVD, there should not be an artificial restriction on the quality that I receive.

ah802
08-03-2006, 09:31 PM
They have Macrovision in the SD DVDs The print screen hole isn't a backdoor it's a joke..:) Have no fear someone will figure it out..This link at ARStechnica paints out the story..

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060802-7411.html