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SED has a rival............

bboncorr
06-16-2006, 09:50 PM
looks like sed is gonna have some major comp. two companies are making the claim that they have pretty much mastered the lcd technology. with claims of better then crt performance. every major flaw with lcd ( motion blur, color saturation, and black levels plus many other improvments.) has become a thing of the past. these companies not only claim these improvments but are also claiming they will have there sets out in quarter 4 of this year. its a good read at the very least. if these claims hold up then i think sed is gonna be in major trouble. especialy since these lcds will be out about a year before sed will be.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/713/713096p1.html


http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/15/ecinema-and-auo-tout-crt-quality-lcds/

dontknowjack
06-17-2006, 12:19 AM
When it comes to technology, I am all for the improvement as much as the next guy. However what used to take number of years to improve now only takes couple of months. This news about SED and new and improved LCDs frastruates me because the improvements are coming at such a high speed, you have to be Bill Gates to catch up with it (I mean money wise). Why can't they wait a little while before moving on as to give us time to catch our breath? I just bought the LCD rear-projection HDTV and am thinking about getting a Blu-Ray player (if I can afford it). Now they are already talking about all this new techology coming out. Now I know I don't have to buy into these new technologies but you know about human nature when you know its out there you want one. I say lets slow down. How do you guys feel about the subject?

CatManDoo
06-17-2006, 10:32 AM
When it comes to technology, I am all for the improvement as much as the next guy. However what used to take number of years to improve now only takes couple of months. This news about SED and new and improved LCDs frastruates me because the improvements are coming at such a high speed, you have to be Bill Gates to catch up with it (I mean money wise). Why can't they wait a little while before moving on as to give us time to catch our breath? I just bought the LCD rear-projection HDTV and am thinking about getting a Blu-Ray player (if I can afford it). Now they are already talking about all this new techology coming out. Now I know I don't have to buy into these new technologies but you know about human nature when you know its out there you want one. I say lets slow down. How do you guys feel about the subject?
I say let's speed it up. We've been hearing about SED for a few years already and all we're getting is promises. Only the very luckiest folks who get passes into secret showings at consumer shows have been able to sample what might be available in the future. Now I hear the SED folks are waiting until 2008 for a release in order to coincide with the Olympics in China. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!! That's a lie if ever I heard one. TOTAL BS. They have to be having MAJOR, MAJOR problems or else this thing would be on store shelves already. I mean, if this technology is as good as they are building it up to be, they could TOTALLY DOMINATE the television industry. It is supposed to be the best of EVERYTHING -- COMBINED. It (supposedly) has a BETTER PICTURE than CRT Direct VIEW and it's thin like LCD's and PLASMAS. It has NO MOTION BLUR with a 1ms response time, and a 100,000 to 1 contrast ratio. So I say, WHY NOT RELEASE IT? Something fishy is going on here, and I smell a rat. I wouldn't be surprised if it NEVER gets released.

p.s. That crap about potential lawsuits is also just that: CRAP!

ah802
06-17-2006, 10:55 AM
In the next 5 years (because of mandated digital tuners) most everyone will be rebuying their video equipment. With that kind of huge market, there is incredible pressure and competition to get a piece of that. The consumer has demanded, improvements in all areas.. and at the very least, CRT equivalents.

There has been announcements (look around the forum) of sets that exceed the consumers demand... but at a heavy price. The trick is to make affordable units.. Sandwiching LED technology with LCD's brings improvements, but effectively doubles the cost (if not more). This kind of technology may be acceptable for industrial use in which cost is less objectionable, but I doubt will be taken seriously in the consumer market.

SED promises the holy grail, but I suspect will deliver less...and cost more. The higher end Plasma and LCD technologies are closing the CRT gap for a given size and have exceeded in HT large panels. Most are now demanding display sizes (HD) in areas CRT is not available.

Save for uncertain DRM, the market would be a tidlewave.

Zaphod
06-17-2006, 08:21 PM
Get used to continuing advances as we get closer to 2009 when everyone will have to go digital.

As pointed out above, the number of people getting TV's will increase. More consumers means more need produce the next best thing, until the following next best thing comes out.

Its' actually a pretty exciting time to watch the technology develop before our eyes.

As far as the LED/LCD being too expensive, more consumers means more production which will drive down the price to produce.

With the PC evolution a machine you buy today for $500 can far out perform a 5 yr old unit which cost $1500.

Sit back, fasten your seatbelts, its going to be an interesting ride

paulc
06-18-2006, 08:54 AM
How many of you are old enough to remember that we used to keep CRT sets for 10-15 years on average? Can anyone think ANYONE will be keeping a current LCD or plasma set for more than 3-4 years now-a-days?

CatManDoo
06-18-2006, 09:17 AM
How many of you are old enough to remember that we used to keep CRT sets for 10-15 years on average? Can anyone think ANYONE will be keeping a current LCD or plasma set for more than 3-4 years now-a-days?
I currently have a 23 year old JCPenney 19" CRT (made by RCA) in my bedroom with a remote control that has 6 (count 'em, SIX) buttons on it [Power, Channel up/down, Volume up/down, and Mute]. I turn it on every time there is a lightning storm hoping it will get hit so that I have to replace it. I've toyed with the idea of a replacement for years but just can't seem to pull the trigger. So I know what you're saying about the way things have been over the years, especially with previous generations (our parents and their parents).

As for your estimate of 3-4 years, I think that might be a little bit low. Personally, I'd say maybe 6-8 years. But I agree with you if you're saying that people will be more likely to replace a set in the future due to functionality (increased technologies) rather than waiting until the old thing just gives up and dies after 20 years of service. Is that sort of what you were getting at?

bboncorr
06-18-2006, 10:36 AM
i agree. i just got my sxrd and im already thinking about the new sxrd, new lcds, and sed. i doubt i will buy another tv anytime soon but i may not make it through 2 years if i keep this rate up.

4 tvs in 3 years.

paulc
06-19-2006, 12:13 PM
Absolutely Cat-Dood! I think most "electronics" companies know full well that the tech-treadmill is an excellent business model.

I said 3-4 years because a certain percentage of the market will be going with a 2 year rollover. Another percentage will go for the 6-8 years. Obviously, there will be the 3-4 year group. IMO, a large percentage of the folks who are already into HD are of the 2-3 year variety.

I was of the 10-15 year variety. With my last set and where the technology has come, I was ready to join a 7 year update; it got cut short by 2 years because of a replacement component that failed way, way too soon (IMO a sign of how low Sony has sunk; 5-10 years ago they'd last for 5-10 years, now it's 7 months). And even though I'm in the 3 month club, I can easily see upgrading 3 years from now (hell, I'm almost kicking myself for not waiting an additional 6 months for a 1920 x 1080 set).

CatManDoo
06-24-2006, 08:28 AM
Absolutely Cat-Dood! (edited; yadda, yadda, ...)
I've had my login referred to in several different ways. "Cat-Dood" is very imaginative. Usually it's just "Cat" or "CatMan". The funniest so far has got to be "Cat-Doo-Doo".

Cat Doo Doo post (http://www.highdefforum.com/showpost.php?p=45425&postcount=4)

I almost spit beer out my nose reading that one. :D

paulc
06-24-2006, 08:57 AM
One of the things I really like about Net Forums is the amount of non-native English speakers and the occasional malapropisms that happen! No dis at all meant; but they do make me smile, and who can hate that.

So you will hear some of my signature catch phrases from time to time!

Jimbos
06-24-2006, 01:15 PM
Absolutely Cat-Dood! I think most "electronics" companies know full well that the tech-treadmill is an excellent business model.

I said 3-4 years because a certain percentage of the market will be going with a 2 year rollover. Another percentage will go for the 6-8 years. Obviously, there will be the 3-4 year group. IMO, a large percentage of the folks who are already into HD are of the 2-3 year variety.

I was of the 10-15 year variety. With my last set and where the technology has come, I was ready to join a 7 year update; it got cut short by 2 years because of a replacement component that failed way, way too soon (IMO a sign of how low Sony has sunk; 5-10 years ago they'd last for 5-10 years, now it's 7 months). And even though I'm in the 3 month club, I can easily see upgrading 3 years from now (hell, I'm almost kicking myself for not waiting an additional 6 months for a 1920 x 1080 set).

I've still got a 27" XBR CRT in the bedroom, looks great andi t's 16 now, going strong.

Jimbo

HD_Lunatic
06-25-2006, 06:54 AM
I don't like CRT Technology..SED is going to be good, but it won't have the anti reflective technology that LCD has. That makes lcd appear as if a window is open. As far better LCDs? Yes the XBR if you want to spend over 3000 dollars. There is no problems with blacks on that set, I understand there is still a response blur with fast motion, but I'll live with that to have the anti reflective feature and not have to worry about burn in. The SED set is said to be an IRON for burn in.... worse than plasma.

paulc
06-26-2006, 09:21 AM
Indeed, when my 32 XBR CRT blew it's d-board for the second time, I borrowed a 27 non XBR Sony; it too was 16 years old (but it did have a repair once in it's life, obviously, the replaced part of was not meant to destruct withing the year).

Funny, I thought the Sony XBR LCD was better with blacks than my Sammie; I proved it wasn't.... took over my DVR with some nasty scenes and after watching them on both sets, I'd say they were almost identical.

firsTraveler
06-27-2006, 10:51 PM
Why can't they wait a little while before moving on as to give us time to catch our breath?


I don't get why so many people have this attitude.
Buy the gear you like when you need it. So what if something 3.512% better comes out next month?

µCOM-4
07-06-2006, 09:11 PM
The next step is High Dynamic Range LCDs using strobed LED back lighting. We really need some of the major CE manufactureres to jump onboard and use this technology.

http://www.brightsidetech.com/

HD_Lunatic
07-10-2006, 02:00 PM
I read somewhere that you really could not see a difference with LED and the wide color gammut CCFL backlight the bravia is using. Something about the perception of the eye. I'll let you know if I find it. For my own experience I saw the LED on a Sony 46 inch 1080p and the Bravia 720p XBR with CCFL looked better. Same picture going in both sets. Now I don't if it was because it was smaller or the resolution was 720p. But it showed that the LED did nothing impressive. The backlight used on the XBR is not the same backlight as the Sony LCD sets from the S series. It is a high quality backlight.

µCOM-4
07-11-2006, 08:18 PM
I read somewhere that you really could not see a difference with LED and the wide color gammut CCFL backlight the bravia is using. Something about the perception of the eye. I'll let you know if I find it. For my own experience I saw the LED on a Sony 46 inch 1080p and the Bravia 720p XBR with CCFL looked better. Same picture going in both sets. Now I don't if it was because it was smaller or the resolution was 720p. But it showed that the LED did nothing impressive. The backlight used on the XBR is not the same backlight as the Sony LCD sets from the S series. It is a high quality backlight.

The LED backlight system that is used on some of the SONY LCDs are not the same technology that HDR displays use. The SONY uses tricolor LED arrays to increase the color gamut. It does nothing to increase dynamic range.

The technology from Brightside uses a different LED system and increases the dynamic range up to 100,000:1 that's why it's called an HDR display.

HD_Lunatic
07-12-2006, 09:56 PM
Every where I read about that set it speaks of the Black level as the main feature with this backlight
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2860

In that article it calims to better than CRT, however, I seen the Sony XBR next to the top 3 CRT sets with the same signal going through it and the LCD XBR was killing those CRT sets.

So if they're talking about seeing an LCD that's better than a CRT, I seen it with the XBR and people I know said the same.

For the most part the CRT does has the best black level than LCD, but, the XBR is not a regular LCD, read the reviews, I seen it first hand.


"The picture quality is amazing; deep blacks, rich colors, and very bright… in fact, it’s too bright. This is actually a good thing, since over time backlights fade. I put it in reduced power saving mode, which cuts the backlight to an acceptable level. This Sony uses a new Wide Color Gamut-CCFL, which produces a whiter light for more accurate colors. One problem with many LCDs is poor black levels… not with this TV; blacks are very black. There were 0 dead pixels, which I would expect from a display of this caliber. The scaler is excellent… I can’t tell 1080i broadcasts from native 720p. DVDs look superb, and even SD broadcasts look good (on par with my old 27” CRT). "
http://www./avs-vb/printthread.php?t=580736

Also the HDR lcd is said to be $49,000, which I'm sure will drop.
http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=ARTCL&ARTICLE_ID=255148&VERSION_NUM=2&p=18
But with the XBR great black level, and it's wide color gamuit CCFL backlight, I don't see many people spending that kind of money.

BobY
07-12-2006, 10:18 PM
I think we discussed this before :)

I did think the XBR was an amazing-looking LCD, but black-level off axis was not good--I could easily see the backlight bleeding through as a purplish glow. The solution is going to be microdisplay backlights that can actually be turned off when the pixels are supposed to be black (essentially what you have with a CRT). As far as price, I'll take a much larger plasma than the XBR for the same price.

µCOM-4
07-12-2006, 11:08 PM
I think we discussed this before :)

I did think the XBR was an amazing-looking LCD, but black-level off axis was not good--I could easily see the backlight bleeding through as a purplish glow. The solution is going to be microdisplay backlights that can actually be turned off when the pixels are supposed to be black (essentially what you have with a CRT). As far as price, I'll take a much larger plasma than the XBR for the same price.

I agree, if deep blacks are what you're looking for, just get a plasma. The plasmas have better response times and contrast ratios and higher colors up to billions. The Bravias are overated. My brother-in-law has one. Yes they're nice direct view LCDs but they have their own set of problems one of which is price, slow response times and ghosting. LCDs also degrade because of their organic nature unlike DLP which do not use organics.

neil_west
07-13-2006, 12:44 AM
"LCD's have an organic nature"

What exactly do you mean by that? As far as I know plasma is the technology that degrades over time, but neither are "organic". Are you sure you're not getting confused with "organic light emitting diodes"? Which I believe is a completely different technology.

µCOM-4
07-13-2006, 02:22 AM
"LCD's have an organic nature"

What exactly do you mean by that? As far as I know plasma is the technology that degrades over time, but neither are "organic". Are you sure you're not getting confused with "organic light emitting diodes"? Which I believe is a completely different technology.

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2004/press_releases/D-ILA_mini_white_paper.pdf

http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp_test.htm

ALL display technology degrade over time, but LCDs have two types of degredation..the first is the backlight brightness and the second is the organic compounds used for the liquid crystals. DLPs only lose brightness overtime they don't degrade because they don't use organic compounds. The bulbs can easily be changed too unlike the CCFL backlights of the Bravias.

mfabien
07-13-2006, 04:03 AM
...
In that article it calims to better than CRT, however, I seen the Sony XBR next to the top 3 CRT sets with the same signal going through it and the LCD XBR was killing those CRT sets.

So if they're talking about seeing an LCD that's better than a CRT, I seen it with the XBR and people I know said the same.

For the most part the CRT does has the best black level than LCD, but, the XBR is not a regular LCD, read the reviews, I seen it first hand.
...


The only way one should view a CRT RPTV is in a sitting position in front of the display. If you stand up, your losing more than 50% of the image brightness. Of course in a store, you can only see it standing up...

Trust me a CRT RPTV is difficult to beat in a room with controlled lighting (not too bright).

paulc
07-13-2006, 08:01 AM
At this point, my feeling is that with all the slamming on LCDs about "black" has led to them to punching up the contrast level too far. Indeed, I get a black that is as black as it can be... BUT that leads to situations where I should get some image, but all there is is solid black (known as blocked up shadows in "picture parlance"). AND it is VERY dependant on the source. Interestingly enough, PQ settings seems to have actually much less effect (meaning a change in settings doesn't have as much effect on the image) on those stunning HD images from video sources like DiscHD.

HD_Lunatic
07-16-2006, 09:03 AM
Those articles made sense, but it seemed to a pro DLP vs LCD rp promotion. None the less, reading the fine detail this is what it came down to in the 2nd link you posted.

"Manufacturers recognize that the organic compounds in LCD panels and polarizers are susceptible to high heat and light energy stress, and will eventually break down if deployed in high stress environments—in particular 24x7 operation with higher than normal ambient temperatures"

But...For the most part you read this everywhere

"LCD manufacturers claim that their displays last, on average, 60,000 to 80,000 hours. In point of fact, an LCD TV will last as long as its backlight does -- and those bulbs can actually be replaced. Since this is nothing more than light passing through a prismatic substrate, there is essentially nothing to wear out on an LCD television."
http://lcdtvsearch.com/Plasma_TV_vs_LCD.php

bboncorr
07-28-2006, 12:01 AM
i think people got away from the original post. the new lcds in the link i posted dont have the downfalls that the lcds out now have. in fact if what is being reported is true then lcds will be the way to go very soon. im not an lcd fan at all but if this comes true i will quickly jump on the bandwagon.

CambrynTVA
07-28-2006, 08:08 PM
i agree. i just got my sxrd and im already thinking about the new sxrd, new lcds, and sed. i doubt i will buy another tv anytime soon but i may not make it through 2 years if i keep this rate up.

4 tvs in 3 years.

There is so many people in the same boat as you. You get a Tv, yet there is something else that is coming out..its addicting! The price's on these items now vs. a few years ago doesnt help either! I'm eager for the SED models, and I own the Sammy' LCD from last year. Now, they have that all white model out that looks so inviting!

:p Drooooooling.....