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Resolution of Super Fine Pitch CRT vs. 970 CRT

xml2k
03-07-2006, 12:54 AM
I know there are two tube choices for 34" Sony Direct View TV's. The super fine pitch (XBR960 and XS955) versus the xbr970, but what are the resolutions of these respective CRT's.

The reason I am asking is that the new Sony LCD KDL-32S2000 boasts a resolution of 1366x768. But there are no corresponding numbers for the CRT's.

borromini
03-07-2006, 07:23 AM
That's because consumer CRT HDTVs are all 1920x1080i when displaying in HD mode. The reference to "Super Fine Pitch" has nothing to do with the CRT's scan resolution but rather the quality of the scan.

xml2k
03-07-2006, 09:55 AM
Super Fine Pitch CRT

Created especially for displaying high resolution pictures like high-definition broadcast, the new Super Fine Pitch CRT features the proprietary Super Fine Pitch Aperture Grill with 65 percent increased number of vertical "slits," which improve image resolution, for crisp, brilliant, highest picture quality reproduction from corner to corner.

Together with a new electron gun and high intensity luminescent phosphor, the Super Fine Pitch CRT delivers exceptional picture performance. The improvement is immediately noticeable, with no visible vertical lines on the screen and higher resolution to all corners.

RSawdey
03-07-2006, 05:29 PM
Since it's a slot mask, the vertical res is defined by the electron beam, but the horizontal res may be limited by the slot pitch... does anybody know the slot pitch numbers for the two tubes? 65% more is a really significant improvement!

Mick
03-08-2006, 03:54 PM
"Thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care.

In regard to your question, the KD-34XBR970 still has the Superfine Pitch of the previous models.

Thank you for choosing Sony Style!

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com"

The above is Sony's e-mail back to me just now if the 970 had the Superfine Pitch. This leads me to believe one of the following:
1. They are not advertising it yet because of the need to help their dealers unload alot of 960 and 955 inventory. Who would spend several hundred more dollars for just the cable card and memory card?
2. Their customer service don't know what they are talking about (always possible).

If this set does have the superfine tube like their e-mails says, this is a SUPER BUY at $1,200.

BrianO
03-08-2006, 04:56 PM
"Thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care.

In regard to your question, the KD-34XBR970 still has the Superfine Pitch of the previous models.

Thank you for choosing Sony Style!

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com"

The above is Sony's e-mail back to me just now if the 970 had the Superfine Pitch. This leads me to believe one of the following:
1. They are not advertising it yet because of the need to help their dealers unload alot of 960 and 955 inventory. Who would spend several hundred more dollars for just the cable card and memory card?
2. Their customer service don't know what they are talking about (always possible).

If this set does have the superfine tube like their e-mails says, this is a SUPER BUY at $1,200.

Until I actually see one in operation I'll believe possibility number 2. i.e. The CSR is misinformed. There is no mention whatsoever of a SFP tube in either the specs on the Sony web site or the manual. The web-site specs and the manuals for both the xbr960 and the xs955 prominently displayed the SFP tube as a major feature of the set.

OTOH, if this set does have the SFP CRT then it is indeed a super buy. If it lacks the SFP tube then it is a decent price...an improved HS420 (which had to go) at the same price.

Mick
03-08-2006, 05:50 PM
I agree that we need to wait and see. But, if it does have the superfine tube then they are holding off promoting that for the inventory reason. Plus, Sony is still selling some 955's from their web site. Think about it for a minute. How would you like to be a dealer still with some expensive 960's and even 955's. They would have to sell them below their cost in comparison with the 970. Plus, Sony doesn't want to take back the sets from the dealers. The 960's and 955's have just about completely gone from the K.C. area. The new sets should be hitting Circuit City very soon.

Garvey
03-09-2006, 10:22 PM
Mick,

I hate to burst your bubble, but have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? The likeliest explanation is #2 (i.e., the CSR is an idiot).

Your massive conspiracy theory is ludicrous. They've already printed the manuals and begun to ship the sets. The SFP is not mentioned anywhere.

alligatorob
04-01-2006, 08:19 AM
I ordered and paid for a KD-34XS955N from Sony Style. They shipped and delivered a KD-34XBR970. I called to complain and they offered to take the 970 back but told me that the 955 has been discontinued, they are out of stock and won’t be getting any more.

I am not knowledgeable about HDTV, before buying I did some research and decided that CRT would fit my needs and the 955 seemed to be top of the line so I ordered it.

Should I take a refund of the difference and be happy or should I get the KD-36XS955? I think Sony still has some of these. My needs are pretty basic, I just want the sharpest HDTV I can get in this size range, but if a novice like me can’t tell the difference then maybe I am better off with what I have.

Any advice would be appreciated.

maicaw
04-01-2006, 10:17 AM
Since it's a slot mask, the vertical res is defined by the electron beam, but the horizontal res may be limited by the slot pitch... does anybody know the slot pitch numbers for the two tubes? 65% more is a really significant improvement!If you go to the store with a accurate ruler and a magnifying glass (if necessary -good eyes or glasses work) measure the number of red stripes in one inch- it will usually be around 30 or more- if it is more - so much the better - mutiply that by the width of the tube say 30" -gives you the number of white vertical lines that can be displayed (all 3 phosphors R-G-B excited) - for say 33 reds/inch that would be 1000 for a 30" wide not diagonal ) tube.
Since a CRT is not a "fixed pixel" display the intensity can vary across the three phosphors that make up a white spot - so you could possibly have over twice as many colored spots as white spots - or the spots could vary in intensity (more detail) as the beam excited only a portion of the R-G-B triad at one intensity and another at some other intensity - (the digital electronics knows how to deal with the color messys) - note -"pixel straddling" is a fixed pixel (one intensity per triad per refresh) display problem - that actually reduces their resolution below the specs shown -that doesn't apply to CRT displays - [RP CRTs which have no aperture grilles can have very large values of true horizontal resolution - the figures are 1400 or better actual displayed white and black dots per line] :)
So what you get in a direct-view CRT is a tube that can produce over 2000 different colored pixels on one line - but the MPEG2 ATSC compression - that encodes the 1920 intensity variations will only encode 960 (or less) color variations per line (4:2:2 colorspace)
A direct view CRT - even an earlier good one - Y2K vintage - can with the proper electronics - display all 1920 pixels per scan line - that is the maximum ATSC encodes - with the 960 colors (at 1920 varying intensities) that is max for ATSC. - with quality digital electronics design - similar calculations apply for the 1080 scanning (top to bottom) lines used with the CRT -
whew :o !

Rick0725
04-01-2006, 05:04 PM
the xbr 970 DEFINATELY DOES NOT have the fine pitch tube.

I would return the xbr 970.

I do not think you will like the 36" long term. After you own the 36" for a few weeks you may say ..."why the heck did I buy that".

4:3 is old technology...take the opportunity to purchase new technology.That was pretty lame what sony did to you btw.

The store had the 960 and 970 xbr side by side. I could most definately see the difference in the smoothness of the picture on the 960.

If you are interested, PM me and I will give you the stores's phone number and the salesman's name.

borromini
04-01-2006, 11:03 PM
...Should I take a refund of the difference and be happy or should I get the KD-36XS955?... If you can find them, get the XS955, it has a superior picture tube compared to the 970.

Sakkidatta
04-19-2006, 04:00 PM
"Thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care.

In regard to your question, the KD-34XBR970 still has the Superfine Pitch of the previous models.

Thank you for choosing Sony Style!

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com"

The above is Sony's e-mail back to me just now if the 970 had the Superfine Pitch. This leads me to believe one of the following:
1. They are not advertising it yet because of the need to help their dealers unload alot of 960 and 955 inventory. Who would spend several hundred more dollars for just the cable card and memory card?
2. Their customer service don't know what they are talking about (always possible).

If this set does have the superfine tube like their e-mails says, this is a SUPER BUY at $1,200.

I just sent a customer help email to Sony and this is what he said.

Response (RGreyson) 04/18/2006 11:31 AM
Dear SonyStyle customer, thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care.

In regard to your question, the KD-34XBR970 does have the Super Fine Pitch CRT.

Thank you for choosing Sony Style!

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com

So I'm guessing that the 970 "does" have a Super Fine Pitch CRT tube so :3

ja2935
04-19-2006, 04:43 PM
I just looked out of curiosity at the Sony CRTs and saw that it is introducing two 480i 4:3 TVs (32' and 27') labelled 'Digital' because they have built in ATSC tuners as well as the NTSC. How many people will buy these thinking they are HD?

Also the 34XBR970 has no mention of Super Fine Pitch - if it had one I think it would mention it!

pcgraffy
04-19-2006, 08:45 PM
With every other Sony that has the SFP tube, this fact is clearly mentioned in the manual, listed in the specs, and in most cases actaully written on the front of the TV.

The SFP has been the huge selling point for the XBR series.

So that means one of 2 things is true:
1) Sony decided that publicizing the SFP (the huge selling point for the XBR series) for the 970 would be a bad idea.

or

2) Sony decided to use the XBR name to make the 970 appear as an upgrade to the 960, while in reality, it does not have the SFP tube. And, of course this means that the sony reps noted above must be giving bad information (shocking, right?)


Option #1 seems very, very unlikely to me.

Sakkidatta
04-20-2006, 01:56 AM
You can send a email yourself... I'm sure you'll get the same result as I did... I'm not sure why they would give bad info but I really don't want to dish out $500 more dollars for a cable card reader and a memory stick reader if the KD-34XBR970 has SFP.

borromini
04-20-2006, 01:09 PM
It's already been discussed on several other threads that Sony's CSR have been erroneously informing folks that the 970 has the SFP tube. You can always decide to just save the $500, buy the 970 and determine for yourself if you're satisified with the image quality.

pcgraffy
04-20-2006, 02:59 PM
I don't think the sony reps are deliberately giving out bad info --- they probably truly believe that the 970 has the SFP. But that doesn't make it true. I wonder if any of them have actually seen one -- or compared the manuals or specs of the 960 and 970.

My point is that if the SFP was there, it would be mentioned somewhere in the manual or the specs -- that's the way it has always been and Sony would be stupid to manufacture a new line of SFP tubes without advertising it as such.

Sakkidatta
04-20-2006, 03:16 PM
Discussion Thread
Response (RGreyson) 04/20/2006 09:19 AM
The KD-34XBR970 does have the same Super Fine Pitch as the KD-34XS955N.

Thank you for choosing Sony Style!

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com

For instant answers, click below:
http://sonystyle.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/sonystyle.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=l12yw1hh¬¬&p_lva=¬¬&p_li=¬¬&p_page=1¬¬&p_search_text=¬¬&p_new_search=1¬¬&p_search_type=search_nl

Customer 04/19/2006 03:28 PM
So does the KD-34XBR970 have the same Super Fine Pitch CRT tube as the KD-34XS955N?

Response (RGreyson) 04/18/2006 11:31 AM
Dear SonyStyle customer, thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care.

In regard to your question, the KD-34XBR970 does have the Super Fine Pitch CRT.

Thank you for choosing Sony Style!

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com

For instant answers, click below:
http://sonystyle.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/sonystyle.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=l12yw1hh¬¬&p_lva=¬¬&p_li=¬¬&p_page=1¬¬&p_search_text=¬¬&p_new_search=1¬¬&p_search_type=search_nl

Auto-Response 04/17/2006 07:41 PM
Thank you for contacting Sony Style Customer Care.

Customer 04/17/2006 07:41 PM
I've heard a lot of "yes" and "no"'s about this subject. I have heard that the KD-34XBR970 actually does have "Super Fine Pitch CRT" technology and was wondering if it really does have it because I plan to buying either the KD-34XBR970 or KD-34XS955N depending on if the KD-34XBR970 has SFP or not.

Rick0725
04-20-2006, 04:15 PM
for the 1000th time.

THE 970 DOES NOT HAVE THE SUPERFINE PITCH TUBE!

BrianO
04-20-2006, 04:48 PM
for the 1000th time.

THE 970 DOES NOT HAVE THE SUPERFINE PITCH TUBE!

Correct!

The KD-34XBR970 is NOT a replacement for the KD-34XBR960N which was simply discontinued due to lagging demand. The 970 is a replacement for the KV-34HS420, at the same price as the HS420, and it has the same Fine Pitch picture tube as the HS420. (Only the XBR960 and the XS955 line had the SFP). The entire HS420 line was discontinued in the USA to comply with the FCC deadlines concerning digital tuners in sets having a screen size of 25" or greater. The Sony reps are doing noone, not even themselves, any favours by continuing to spew misinformation about the XBR970.

The entire HS420 line, except the recently discontinued (last week) 27" model is still available in Canada which has no such mandates for digital tuners and I doubt that the KD-34XBR970 will be available in Canada until the remaining KV-34HS420's are sold. Does the word "dumping" come to mind?