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Has a television ever been recalled before?

Porcupine
02-13-2006, 12:36 PM
I'm not sure how this works, but in general when a product put out on the market turns out to be horribly defective and/or dangerous, a recall is usually put out and everyone who bought the product is asked to bring them back in for a refund or something equivalent.

I believe the Toshiba (Orion) 30HF85 does deserve a recall. I do not know about the other size Toshibas, or the 84 models, but probably them as well. After going through many units I have noticed a pattern. Although these units do have terrible quality control problems, they also have problems that simply affect all units or batches of units. For example, all 30HF85 made in April 2005 have a non-functioning Theater Wide 1 mode which fails to perform the defining progressive stretch. All 30HF85 made in September 2005 have the 480i non-synch glitch through component, I believe. All 30HF85 made in April 2005 have a fatal problem through component where the chrominance information leads the luminance information by 4 pixels to the left which results in a completely unacceptable image.

If more owners can verify statements such as these it should be possible to prove that all 2005 Toshibas, or at least certain models and shipments of them, are defective and should be recalled. Has something like this ever been done before? Has a TV ever been recalled? I'm not really asking this out of hatred towards Toshiba or Orion, but I'm asking this as a customer that feels taken advantage of when companies try to pull the wool over our eyes. I feel that federal/state laws should prevent this sort of thing from happening to us, and that there should be some 3rd party organizations to make sure electronics companies are putting out properly functioning equipment.

waltchan
02-13-2006, 02:52 PM
I'm not sure how this works, but in general when a product put out on the market turns out to be horribly defective and/or dangerous, a recall is usually put out and everyone who bought the product is asked to bring them back in for a refund or something equivalent.

I believe the Toshiba (Orion) 30HF85 does deserve a recall. I do not know about the other size Toshibas, or the 84 models, but probably them as well. After going through many units I have noticed a pattern. Although these units do have terrible quality control problems, they also have problems that simply affect all units or batches of units. For example, all 30HF85 made in April 2005 have a non-functioning Theater Wide 1 mode which fails to perform the defining progressive stretch. All 30HF85 made in September 2005 have the 480i non-synch glitch through component, I believe. All 30HF85 made in April 2005 have a fatal problem through component where the chrominance information leads the luminance information by 4 pixels to the left which results in a completely unacceptable image.

If more owners can verify statements such as these it should be possible to prove that all 2005 Toshibas, or at least certain models and shipments of them, are defective and should be recalled. Has something like this ever been done before? Has a TV ever been recalled? I'm not really asking this out of hatred towards Toshiba or Orion, but I'm asking this as a customer that feels taken advantage of when companies try to pull the wool over our eyes. I feel that federal/state laws should prevent this sort of thing from happening to us, and that there should be some 3rd party organizations to make sure electronics companies are putting out properly functioning equipment.
There is no recall yet. Orion claims that the TVs have no known problems, so Toshiba does not take any action.

bboncorr
02-13-2006, 03:23 PM
jvc had a recall on some tvs before. the tv would start to smoke. some would even catch on fire.

BobY
02-13-2006, 10:08 PM
The FTC won't issue a recall unless it's a safety hazard (although they can issue a "cease and desist" for unjustified claims).

Caveat Emptor reigns among consumer electronics gear (where else can you find warranties that flat out state products are not guaranteed to do anything?), but you could try a class-action suit. Unfortunately, that would probably only result in some sort of monetary award since the lawyers wouldn't care about getting your TV fixed :)

Porcupine
02-14-2006, 01:51 AM
Hrm, after just taking in my last 30HF85, and doing more in-store studying of other HDTVs, as well as looking at my old 20" analog JVC tube super critically for the first time ever (with my TV knowledge gained over the last 2 months) I realize that the ToshibaOrions are maybe not THAT bad, despite having some semi-fatal flaws.

Almost all TVs have problems where the color information leads the luminance information by some amount. On my old TV it is actually roughly 4 (standard definition) pixels to the left. On the messed up Toshibas it leads by about 5 pixels to the left through the component inputs only (and about 1 pixel to the left through composite and 2 pixels to the right on S-Video...so you should definitely avoid the component inputs on the affected Toshibas). On the particular Sony HDTVs I tested it led by about 2 pixels to the left on composite (other inputs not checked since I don't own it). So no TV is perfect. Although, since these are supposed to be "HDTVs" I would say that 1 pixel (standard definition, so 2 pixels of HD) of Y/C deconvergence is the maximum acceptable amount.

I don't really understand what is Y/C deconvergence. That's a term I made up because I don't know the real term. I've not really seen people talking about it before but to me it is a terrible image quality-affecting phenomena that seems to affect almost all TVs to some extent. Generally speaking the Y/C deconvergence has a comparable negative effect on picture quality as an equivalent amount of RGB color deconvergence. And on almost all TVs I've seen the level of Y/C deconvergence is actually the greater amount so that should be the phenomena of greatest concern I would think.

Toshiba still needs to get their quality control better though. I hope the 30HF66 will be better. I'll probably give them one last shot when it comes out. :)

waltchan
02-14-2006, 01:57 AM
Hey Porcupine, there has been a lot of confusion here at AVS forum because the people suspect that I am logging in your account as Porcupine2. They think that I am "Porcupine2." Would you please send a reminder to them by making one post that I am not really you. Thanks for taking your time do this.

Porcupine
02-14-2006, 02:22 AM
I don't think those stubborn buffoons will believe me if I say I am not you. So far my tactic has been to just keep being myself and talking there. I think eventually most of those people will realize I am not you. Even if some of the things we say are similar, some of the things we say are invariably different and I think the observant and open-minded ones will eventually come to realize it.

Probably some of the really dumb ones like Q of Bandit will always think I am you, so just screw him. But I think a lot of the other users already stopped thinking I am you, even if they aren't saying it. I think we should just let things go for a while and see what happens...