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Sony Bows 4K Ultra HD Video Player With Movies

TowerGrove
11-29-2012, 12:01 PM
My purse will be getting a lot lighter...

4K is a new video resolution standard considered the next step beyond Blu-ray’s 1080p resolution.

Sony is bundling the 4K Ultra HD Video player as a loaner to consumers purchasing the manufacturer’s 84-inch 4K LED television (XBR-84X900). The player comes with 10 Sony Pictures movies in 4K resolution, including The Amazing Spiderman, Total Recall (2012), The Karate Kid (2010), Salt, Battle Los Angeles, The Other Guys, Bad Teacher, That's My Boy, Taxi Driver, and The Bridge on the River Kwai.

Sony said the player up-converts Blu-ray movies to near 4K resolution, similar to what BD players do with standard definition DVDs to near 1080p resolution.

In addition to movies, the video player comes pre-loaded with 4K video shorts, including Red Bull Media House’s exclusive 4K videos The Athlete Machine: Red Bull Kluge and four acoustic performances of songs from Red Bull Records' Heaven's Basement's new record, "Filthy Empire." Additionally, Sony's 4K Ultra HD player is designed to be updated with additional 4K titles and video clips.

"Sony Pictures leads the industry in building a library of new releases and restored classics mastered in 4K, so it is both exciting and appropriate that we can provide the first 4K movies that consumers will be able to experience in their homes," said Chris Cookson, president, Sony Pictures Technologies.
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/sony-pictures/sony-bows-4k-ultra-hd-video-player-movies-28983

quad4.0
11-29-2012, 12:12 PM
Not to be neg. but I will never trust Sony after the SACD turn around.
It just seemed it was payback for beta. They won the HD dvd format war, and I have seen where they are prepping to turn on that also.

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 12:21 PM
See post #3 for more information:

http://www.highdefforum.com/ultra-high-definition-tvs/138817-sony-4k-tv-come-free-4k-movies.html#post1289090

HD Goofnut
11-29-2012, 12:48 PM
So we're still talking about upconversion. I will be excited when an player that plays actual 4K content is released. Of course there is going to have be something a lot larger than 50 GBs to store the movies on.

morriscroy
11-29-2012, 12:54 PM
Interesting that this 4k "player" is a server with a large hard drive, and not an optical disc system.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/29/3706046/sony-first-4k-content-delivery-home-server

quad4.0
11-29-2012, 12:55 PM
See post #3 for more information:

http://www.highdefforum.com/ultra-high-definition-tvs/138817-sony-4k-tv-come-free-4k-movies.html#post1289090

Very good information! $25,000 for the set. I'll take two.

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 01:16 PM
Interesting that this 4k "player" is a server with a large hard drive, and not an optical disc system.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/29/3706046/sony-first-4k-content-delivery-home-server

There is no approved optical disc system that can handle 4K movies.

What Sony is doing is loaning to Sony 4KTV buyers a media server - the same one they use in their Sony Stores to demo 4K content.

You own neither the movies nor the media server. They are on loan to you from Sony.

HD Goofnut
11-29-2012, 01:53 PM
There is no approved optical disc system that can handle 4K movies.

What Sony is doing is loaning to Sony 4KTV buyers a media server - the same one they use in their Sony Stores to demo 4K content.

You own neither the movies nor the media server. They are on loan to you from Sony.

If you buy the $25,000 bundle. I think I'll pass.

chipvideo
11-29-2012, 02:39 PM
So no physical product. Just a server.

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 02:40 PM
So no physical product. Just a server.

Which you don't own.

bruceames
11-29-2012, 04:38 PM
I'd be very envious of whoever buys this and can watch those 4k movies at home, even if it's just on a borrowed server.

I suppose with the 4k sets coming out that sooner or later a 4k format will follow. But will it be on Blu-ray disc, another physical medium, or "on a server"? And when would we expect to know something? Hopefully there wouldn't be another format war.

Blu-ray disc would probably be the cheapest, but I'm not sure that the studios would want that, given the very limited success that Blu-ray has had with sales and the utter failures with copy protection. After 6 1/2 years, Blu-ray has only a 26% share, so where would that leave 4k if it went OD? 5%? 10%?

In any case, 4k would truly be a home theater format or for those with 65"+ displays. I am curious as well to see what the upscaling looks like.

morriscroy
11-29-2012, 05:26 PM
I am curious as well to see what the upscaling looks like.

Most likely garbage, if one is sitting close to the screen. :banghead:

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 05:33 PM
I'd be very envious of whoever buys this and can watch those 4k movies at home, even if it's just on a borrowed server.

I suppose with the 4k sets coming out that sooner or later a 4k format will follow. But will it be on Blu-ray disc, another physical medium, or "on a server"? And when would we expect to know something? Hopefully there wouldn't be another format war.

Blu-ray disc would probably be the cheapest, but I'm not sure that the studios would want that, given the very limited success that Blu-ray has had with sales and the utter failures with copy protection. After 6 1/2 years, Blu-ray has only a 26% share, so where would that leave 4k if it went OD? 5%? 10%?

In any case, 4k would truly be a home theater format or for those with 65"+ displays. I am curious as well to see what the upscaling looks like.

4K content will probably show up first on Blu-ray. My guess is either Q4 2013 or Q1 2014. It will use the brand new HEVC video codec which should be fully ratified by the end of January 2013.

HDMI.org will be making an announcement at CES 2013 about the next version (1.5??) which will address 4K. Current HDMI 1.4x can only do 4K at 24Hz.

It would not surprise me in the least if at 2013 CES, the BDA makes an announcement concerning 4K BD.

I don't really see any format war looming. BD is still super cheap to replicate - about $1 a disc. Flash memory can't compete with that. There is no other format that is "consumer friendly" that could handle 4K.

4K content from SAT/CBL will probably show up sometime in 2016. For OTA, unknown. It's a big hurdle to overcome even with HEVC.

Keep in mind that DisplaySearch has said that 4K TVs will probably make up about 1% of all TVs sold . . . in 2017, so there will be no rush from consumers to adopt 4K.

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 05:35 PM
Most likely garbage, if one is sitting close to the screen. :banghead:

Not from what I have read. If you are sitting in the "4K Sweet Spot" - 1.5 to 2.0 times picture height, BDs upscaled to 4k look better than BDs on HDTVs.

morriscroy
11-29-2012, 05:42 PM
Not from what I have read. If you are sitting in the "4K Sweet Spot" - 1.5 to 2.0 times picture height, BDs upscaled to 4k look better than BDs on HDTVs.

Do they state which upscaling algorithms they are using?

morriscroy
11-29-2012, 06:41 PM
What Sony is doing is loaning to Sony 4KTV buyers a media server - the same one they use in their Sony Stores to demo 4K content.

You own neither the movies nor the media server. They are on loan to you from Sony.

Wonder what Sony will do if any of the customers "lose" or destroy their on-loan 4KTV media servers. Or for that matter, the server is stolen by robbers.

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 07:14 PM
Wonder what Sony will do if any of the customers "lose" or destroy their on-loan 4KTV media servers. Or for that matter, the server is stolen by robbers.

There will be paperwork between Sony and the TV buyer. I assume the buyer will be liable for the server. They used the word "lease" in the announcement.

Lee Stewart
11-29-2012, 07:17 PM
Do they state which upscaling algorithms they are using?

I haven't seen any announcement. It is much easier, read get a better result, when you upscale HD to 4K because you are starting with 2 million pixels per frame. Not like upscaling DVD where you are only starting with 345,600 pixels per frame.

Lee Stewart
11-30-2012, 07:28 AM
Q: With 4k getting more attention, does the BDA have plans to introduce 4k to the space and is it possible to have 4k, 3D?

Andy Parsons: The BDA recently decided to form a new task force to study just this sort of possibility. It's called the format extension study task force, and it will do exactly what its name suggests: to study new technologies such as 4K, high frame rate, color enhancements, etc. Each technology that will be studied needs to be evaluated to determine technical feasibility, market demand, and potential impact on the installed base of Blu-ray players already in the marketplace, projected to be in excess of 50 million in the U.S. alone by the end of 2012.

http://games.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Blu-ray_3D/3D/Industry_Trends/High-Def_Retailing/HDD_Attends_a_Virtual_Roundtable_to_Discuss_2D_to_ 3D_Film_Conversions/10444

HD Goofnut
11-30-2012, 08:06 AM
http://games.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Blu-ray_3D/3D/Industry_Trends/High-Def_Retailing/HDD_Attends_a_Virtual_Roundtable_to_Discuss_2D_to_ 3D_Film_Conversions/10444

Sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to make present BD players upconvert 1080p to 4K. Is that even possible with a firmware update?

morriscroy
11-30-2012, 08:55 AM
Sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to make present BD players upconvert 1080p to 4K. Is that even possible with a firmware update?

Good question.

In general, software based upscaling is a heavy cpu hog on a computer, especially if a particular upscaling algorithm is complicated and has a lot of intermediate steps (such as cubic splines). :banghead:

Lee Stewart
11-30-2012, 09:19 AM
Sounds like they are trying to figure out a way to make present BD players upconvert 1080p to 4K. Is that even possible with a firmware update?

I think it's more in line with making legacy BD players backwards compatible with 4K BD like they did with 3D BD.

HD Goofnut
11-30-2012, 11:06 AM
I think it's more in line with making legacy BD players backwards compatible with 4K BD like they did with 3D BD.

So that they can upconvert 1080p content to 4K and play native 4K content?

bruceames
11-30-2012, 11:18 AM
Why would it be necessary for existing BD players to upconvert to 4k, when the 4k TV would do it just as well?

HD Goofnut
11-30-2012, 12:41 PM
Why would it be necessary for existing BD players to upconvert to 4k, when the 4k TV would do it just as well?

I suppose that would work as well.

chipvideo
11-30-2012, 12:46 PM
I think its safe to say Blu-ray is the last mass market physical product for movies.

morriscroy
11-30-2012, 02:37 PM
I think its safe to say Blu-ray is the last mass market physical product for movies.

Before streaming/downloading becomes ubiquitous (if ever), it would be great if there is at least one more successor physical medium, whether for 4k, 8k, etc ... in the form of a pressed physical disk/card/cube/etc ...

HD Goofnut
11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
I think its safe to say Blu-ray is the last mass market physical product for movies.

Considering our present internet backbone can't even deliver anything close to 1080p, much less 4K, I seriously doubt that we have seen the end of physical media.

bruceames
11-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Considering our present internet backbone can't even deliver anything close to 1080p, much less 4K, I seriously doubt that we have seen the end of physical media.

Not at all. Of course Blu-ray will be the last OD format, but I think physical formats will always be here because for one like you say it can handle the bandwidth much better than streaming ever will. Equally important is the fact that collectors will want to collect something they can touch and not just bytes stored on their computer. Packaging in media is getting more evolved all the time and it can be even more important than the disc itself. For example, I paid $8 for the Shawshank Redemption digibook even though I already own it in a regular case (those sucky "eco" cases). I just wanted the digibook packaging.

mikemorel
11-30-2012, 05:36 PM
BDA adopting native 4K? Not anytime soon.



http://i45.tinypic.com/1zvz990.jpg

HD Goofnut
11-30-2012, 06:10 PM
BDA adopting native 4K? Not anytime soon.



http://i45.tinypic.com/1zvz990.jpg

Well, it's not like you'd actually post anything positive for BD. I'd check the temperature in Hades and would need a bow and arrow to get my bacon out of the sky.