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New Samsung 2011 PNxxD8000 Plasma TV Thread

Cle. Plasma
03-26-2011, 06:55 PM
The all New PNxxD8000 is looking really good in her dark titanium skin! About an inch thick, very light ! The PN51D8000, PN59D8000 are out and about. The PN64D8000 will be out any day !

http://www.highdefforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5741&stc=1&d=1301186695
http://www.highdefforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5742&stc=1&d=1301186695

What good is a post with out a reveiw right? Chad B ( Read about Chad B, Click Here (http://hdtvbychadb.com/index.html) ) stopped by for a visit and tested a PN51D8000:

General:

Samsung's D8000 plasma is a beautifully designed, super thin 3D display that has the forums on fire. Considering it's predecessor's great picture, that comes as no surprise. As I sit here at Cleveland Plasma, I'm thoroughly enjoying taking in it's beautiful picture. I also took some time to compare it to a couple other brand new models sharing the floor with it, an LG 60PZ550 plasma and Samsung's UN46D8000 LED LCD.

Since many owners do not have the luxury of total light control in their living rooms and some prefer watching with a small lamp on at night, the screen's ability to stay dark and mute reflections can be very important. Manufacturers have made significant advancements in the last couple of years in filter design, and the PN51D8000 shows that off quite well. Though not as black in bright environments as the LED LCD beside it, the PN51D8000's screen resists washout more than most plasmas I've seen. Reflections, though muted quite effectively, could still be a distraction depending on your room layout. Fortunately, with a little planning, it will display a picture with rich contrast in most moderately lit living rooms. The clean, modern design also helps the PN51D8000 look good in your home, whether it's in use or not.

I began my evaluation by checking out the various picture mode presets, and quickly found that Movie mode looked the most natural and true to life. Without making any other changes to the picture besides choosing Movie mode, I put in some familiar Blu Ray demo material. I also chose the best modes for the neighboring UN46D8000 and LG 60PZ550, and fed them all 1080i and 1080P/24 via a high quality HDMI distribution amp. The room was dark except for the light output of the three TVs on display.

Before calibration:

The PN51D8000's picture had very good pop, but I felt it looked a bit too contrasty (with bright objects highlighted and dark objects too dark). I was impressed with the fine detail in the picture. The PN51D8000 appeared to have the best and most consistent contrast of the bunch. Black bars were slightly brighter than the bezel, but not distractingly so. The image was smooth, but at times I saw hints of blurring from noise reduction. Flesh tones looked very good; much better than I normally see with non calibrated factory settings. Shadow detail was slightly subdued, however, meaning dark objects sunk down into the black background a little too much. Overall, it had the best, most exciting image of the three displays.

Calibration:

Like other recent top of the line offerings from Samsung, the PN51D8000's picture menu is extremely thorough and, for the most part, well designed. Samsung made some improvements in the menu's cosmetics and operation over the C8000. Tweakers and calibrators will love the full CMS (color management system), white balance adjustments, gamma selection, and 10 step gamma/grayscale adjustment once they become familiar with their operation and the inevitable quirks. Most of these adjustments should be done with a high quality meter interfaced with a laptop rather than by eye. I used the i1Pro meter with CalMAN 4.2 software for most of the calibration. Colors dialed in perfectly, and grayscale and gamma were both improved with the 10 point fine tuning. The 10 point adjustment can be frustrating, however, as it's alignment can get displaced if the contrast is set too low; and it's adjustment steps are coarse with darker images. With patience it can give a welcome improvement.

On a disappointing note, I could find no hint of the rumored LCE (Local Contrast Enhancer), either in the menu or in the set's performance. It may be that Samsung came up with a new thing to call the same old Black Tone, Dynamic Contrast, and/or Motion Lighting selections, all of which I tried and found either to make no improvement or to actually be very detrimental to the picture. I tried looking at black level and contrast performance in the different picture modes, thinking maybe LCE was tied in with only certain modes, with no success. Furthermore, Chris and I pulled out a Panasonic ST30 plasma and compared the minimum luminance level of it and the PN51D8000, and the ST30 was noticeably darker. So, if the LCE is real and not just hype, unfortunately it was not making itself known.

On Samsung's C8000 and C7000 models, I found that the black level measured and looked very significantly better (darker) on the 58 and 63" panel sizes than the 50" panel I initially reviewed. I have a feeling that may be the case with the D8000 as well. Using a Chroma5 colorimeter that is rated to read accurately down to at least .014 fL and measuring in a dark room, I measured a black level of .0165 fL without Cinema Smooth engaged. With a 1080P/24 input and Cinema Smooth turned on, as most videophiles would greatly prefer to watch their Blu Rays, the black level deteriorated to .0225 fL. The modified ANSI contrast ratio measured a good 1564:1. The PN51D8000 can make a nice and bright image; I could get 54-55 fL of light output with no compromise in performance. That, along with the dark screen filter, combine to help the PN51D8000 look much punchier and dynamic than the average plasma in a typical room.

After calibration:

(dark room, 1080P/24, Cinema Smooth engaged)
The first thing that struck me was the beautiful color; it was saturated and rich but still natural. There was lots of pop in bright scenes, but blacks had a slight glow in dark scenes. Whites were pure and vibrant. Shadow detail was excellent- well balanced and neutral. I saw very detailed resolution. The image was very slightly grainy when sitting close to the screen with NR off, but it looked smooth from a more typical viewing distance. The picture was stable, with no pumping or floating blacks. Flesh tones were natural. Pans and motion were good. I experimented with turning Cinema Smooth off and on; it was hard to see the black level penalty when engaging CS because of the large, bright menu screen, but it did seem to be slightly perceptible.

In every regard except MLL and dark scene contrast, I absolutely loved the image I saw on the PN51D8000. I have not seen any other display that exceeds it's picture quality in many respects. Is the black level performance enough to tame your enthusiasm for the PN51D8000? If you're hard core like my buddy, who liked his CRT front projector's blacks so dark that seeing his hand held up between his eyes and the screen could be a challenge, then yes. If your tastes are more moderate and you watch with a little light in the room, then sit back and enjoy that beautiful picture!

Calibration report, charts >>> Click Here (https://clevelandplasma.com/files/store/product/page00014.jpg) , Click Here (https://clevelandplasma.com/files/store/product/page00024.jpg) , Click Here (https://clevelandplasma.com/files/store/product/page00034.jpg), and Click Here (https://clevelandplasma.com/files/store/product/page00044.jpg)
.

ImRizzo
03-26-2011, 07:27 PM
Nice Post, Chris & Chad, THX

pappylap
03-26-2011, 07:49 PM
Hmmmmm, I'm not too crazy about the light brown bezel.....Picture looks awesome though!;)

ImRizzo
03-26-2011, 07:50 PM
Hmmmmm, I'm not too crazy about the light brown bezel.....Picture looks awesome though!;)

The VT25's have a Brown tinted bezel.

Cle. Plasma
03-26-2011, 07:52 PM
If you look in the middle of the picture posted you will see the true color where the camera flash lights the picture the most, a very, very, very dark grey/titanium color.

House72
03-26-2011, 08:15 PM
Nice post.. Thanks..


I want to see how the 64" compares to the 65" VT Panny.. Can't wait for the shootout..

kharaa
03-26-2011, 08:44 PM
I absolutely loved the image I saw on the PN51D8000. I have not seen any other display that exceeds it's picture quality in many respects.

Good to hear. GO Samsung! ;)

TwoPlusTwo
03-26-2011, 11:06 PM
Am I not the only person here rather disappointed by this set's MLL? :confused:

Isn't this the flagship model? I would expect an MLL of like .006 ftL or something, but...

Using a Chroma5 colorimeter that is rated to read accurately down to at least .014 fL and measuring in a dark room, I measured a black level of .0165 fL without Cinema Smooth engaged.

Isn't that a pretty underwhelming MLL for a shiny new 2011 plasma? :what:

Klaista2k
03-27-2011, 01:54 AM
Am I not the only person here rather disappointed by this set's MLL? :confused:

Isn't this the flagship model? I would expect an MLL of like .006 ftL or something, but...



Isn't that a pretty underwhelming MLL for a shiny new 2011 plasma? :what:

Who know's how accurate those numbers are though.

pappylap
03-27-2011, 09:41 AM
http://www.highdefforum.com/attachments/flat-panel-tvs/5741d1301186695-new-samsung-2011-pnxxd8000-plasma-tv-thread-dsc_0243.jpg

Sorry guys I guess my attempt at humor was a bit underwhelming... this is to what I was jokingly referring...;).

dsskid
03-27-2011, 11:37 AM
http://www.highdefforum.com/attachments/flat-panel-tvs/5741d1301186695-new-samsung-2011-pnxxd8000-plasma-tv-thread-dsc_0243.jpg

Sorry guys I guess my attempt at humor was a bit underwhelming... this is to what I was jokingly referring...;).
Good one, it did go over my head initially also.

House72
03-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Am I not the only person here rather disappointed by this set's MLL? :confused:

Isn't this the flagship model? I would expect an MLL of like .006 ftL or something, but...



Isn't that a pretty underwhelming MLL for a shiny new 2011 plasma? :what:

Can your eyes tell the difference between a .006, and a .011????

MurcielagoSV21
03-27-2011, 12:43 PM
My UN55D8000 (LED LCD) should arrive late next week :)

Looks like a nice plasma though.

MurcielagoSV21
03-27-2011, 12:55 PM
Can your eyes tell the difference between a .006, and a .011????

Side by side in the dark yes, lit room maybe not.

I understand MLL and Contrast are very important items, but it's become an annoying obsession and forum topic for me.

House72
03-27-2011, 03:43 PM
Side by side in the dark yes, lit room maybe not.

I understand MLL and Contrast are very important items, but it's become an annoying obsession and forum topic for me.

How many people will have these sets side by side??

I still would like to get a survey to see how many people could tell the difference, I bet not many can..

kharaa
03-27-2011, 04:02 PM
As said in the review, to the hardcore videophile; it will matter, to the vast vast majority of people, the TV is one of the best he's seen.

though that is slightly disappointing that the black levels are worse than 2010's models.

House72
03-27-2011, 04:18 PM
As said in the review, to the hardcore videophile; it will matter, to the vast vast majority of people, the TV is one of the best he's seen.

though that is slightly disappointing that the black levels are worse than 2010's models.

Yea, but they can see it, or they just going by what the meter is saying??

I also get what you're saying about how the blacks aren't surpassing 2010 levels.. Each year, the compaines should be progressing, not going backwards..

kharaa
03-27-2011, 04:24 PM
That's a good question, TwoPlusTwo put his VT25 and his Kuro Elite next to eachother, and he said he could see a difference.

I can't see the difference in my Toshiba edge lit LED-LCD and my dads G25 unless I see them both

House72
03-27-2011, 04:35 PM
That's a good question, TwoPlusTwo put his VT25 and his Kuro Elite next to eachother, and he said he could see a difference.

I can't see the difference in my Toshiba edge lit LED-LCD and my dads G25 unless I see them both

That's what I'm getting at, unless the sets are side by side, is the difference that dramatic??

Can even the videophilles tell without the equipment??

TwoPlusTwo
03-27-2011, 04:49 PM
Can even the videophilles tell without the equipment??

Even a non-videophile can tell it (low MLL) without equipment.

Several people, who have no interest in home theater, have commented on the deep blacks on my PRO-101FD. Especially with black letterbox bars in a dark room; you can't tell where they end and the bezel begins.

All in all though, it's not the MLL itself that I'm really befuddled about, so much as it's the fact that it's not improving with new models.

In fact it seems they are going backwards.

Didn't the 2010 models have a better MLL than this? :confused:

House72
03-27-2011, 04:52 PM
Even a non-videophile can tell it (low MLL) without equipment.

Several people, who have no interest in home theater, have commented on the deep blacks on my PRO-101FD. Especially with black letterbox bars in a dark room; you can't tell where they end and the bezel begins.

All in all though, it's not the MLL itself that I'm really befuddled about, so much as it's the fact that it's not improving with new models.

In fact it seems they are going backwards.

Didn't the 2010 models have a better MLL than this? :confused:

I just didn't think .005 was a difference that the naked eye can see..

TwoPlusTwo
03-27-2011, 05:12 PM
I just didn't think .005 was a difference that the naked eye can see..

.005 a difference from what? I don't think anyone knows the MLL of the competition's flagship models yet to compare it to.

For a 2011 flagship model plasma, the numbers (.0165 ftL with Cinema Smooth turned off, and even worse with .0225 ftL with it turned on) are pretty disappointing. Not that it's a terrible MLL, just that this is their flagship model for the year; this is (AFAIK) the best plasma that Samsung is offering this year.

Back in 2008 plasmas were being made with .001 ftL and .0005 ftL; why is it so hard to expect something with a number lower than .01 ftL in 2011 for the high-end models? :what:

Also, as far as this impacts actual performance, it's enough of an issue that Chad talks about it in detail:

In every regard except MLL and dark scene contrast, I absolutely loved the image I saw on the PN51D8000. I have not seen any other display that exceeds it's picture quality in many respects. Is the black level performance enough to tame your enthusiasm for the PN51D8000? If you're hard core like my buddy, who liked his CRT front projector's blacks so dark that seeing his hand held up between his eyes and the screen could be a challenge, then yes. If your tastes are more moderate and you watch with a little light in the room, then sit back and enjoy that beautiful picture!

Cle. Plasma
03-27-2011, 11:47 PM
Keep in mind the larger size Samsungs, 58" and 63", last year had a better reading in black level than the 50" ;) This 2011 PN51D8000 unit tested better than the last years Samsung 2010 PN50C8000.

As far as the PN59D8000 and PN64D8000 we will see...............

robc1976
06-03-2011, 07:57 AM
Keep in mind the larger size Samsungs, 58" and 63", last year had a better reading in black level than the 50" ;) This 2011 PN51D8000 unit tested better than the last years Samsung 2010 PN50C8000.

As far as the PN59D8000 and PN64D8000 we will see...............I just ordered my PN64D8000....I purchased a TCP65ST30 2 days ago and turned it on and it had a black bar going down the side od it so I went with a samsung....I have alsways had Samsung but gave panny a chance but will never gain.


The review has been updated and it seems the larger screen size D8000 has much better #'s...I am not a pro or anything just posting the info LOL!!

http://www./showthread.php?9324-Review-Samsung-PN51D8000-and-PN64D8000-Plasmas


Here is the udated review in text in case the link is removed (Sorry if it is against the rules):

Update 4-19-2011: I just calibrated the 64" version of this TV, and I am very happy with the improvement in black level over the review sample! Before I attempted any black level readings and before I engaged Cinema Smooth, I could plainly see the minimum luminance level and contrast were significantly improved. In a darker than average room, the contrast looked outstanding even with dark scenes. No, it was still not in the same league as the Kuro 101FD I calibrated yesterday, but it looked similar to the higher end Panasonics and at least as good as last year's 63D7000/8000.
I have determined that my Chroma5 meter, which is rated to be accurate down to approximately .014 fL, at least gives gives ballpark readings from that level down to approximately .008 fL. The PN-64D8000's readings were below that threshold with both a black screen and the black section of the ANSI checkerboard pattern. While I cannot provide a reliable exact number for the black level, it is definitely lower than that of the PN-51D8000, and it is probably very close to the best Panasonic plasmas.
With a 1080P/24 input and Cinema Smooth engaged, I got a consistent reading of .012 fL.
As was the case last year, the contrast is dramatically improved with the larger panel size, and picture quality is a significant notch higher as a result.

dsskid
06-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Congrats on your purchase. Enjoy.

robc1976
06-03-2011, 10:46 AM
Congrats on your purchase. Enjoy. It is thanks to you thank-you for the recommendation! I just can't wait to tweak it and calibrate it.my last set looked great thanks to your advice lol! I am eagar to see the CMS and the greyscale calibration setting....my last set didn't have this (PN50C550).

mbec2
06-03-2011, 10:50 AM
This display turned out to be a disappointment.

1) The large sizes only improved a mere .001 in mll (.0068 vs .008)

2) This display has terrible fluctuating gamma.

The 2010 models had basically the same blacks, with stable blacks (NO FLUCTUATING).

They have went backwards in PQ. I would rather have a 2010 model.

dsskid
06-03-2011, 11:47 AM
This display turned out to be a disappointment.

1) The large sizes only improved a mere .001 in mll (.0068 vs .008)I disagree with your assertion, as most others will as well regarding the Samsung.

Unfortunately 3D is a bigger priority to CE manufacturers than black level these days. Get used to it.

The Panasonic mll level didn't improve at all.....still at .0046. Most people wouldn't notice a difference of .002 in mill in a non-cave environement. 2) This display has terrible fluctuating gamma.

Oh it does? Really? I think you're referring to floating blacks, which is slight, much less than the 2010 Panasonics.

And the 2011 Panasonics have the Floating Brightness problem, attributed to unstable gamma, which also leads to unstable and inaccurate color fidelity.

Go to the Samsung threads, then go to the Panasonic threads, and look to see who has more complaints about fluctuations.

Matter of fact, even when you calibrate the VT30 using conventional methods, they don't produce an accurate picture. Reknown calibrator D-Nice stated that he had to calibrate it while comparing it to a reference display in order to get it visually accurate, since the calibration charts are not reflecting what is being seen due to the fluctuations.

The 2010 models had basically the same blacks, with stable blacks (NO FLUCTUATING). There is an improvement in samsung's blacks, even if slight, and an improved black filter. There is no improvement in Panasonic's black level. And the Panasonic black levels will still rise in 2011.

They have went backwards in PQ. I would rather have a 2010 model. Improved black filter, slightly improved black levels, better color accuracy, better 3D with less cross-talk than the Panasonics, to name a few. You should get your facts straight before spreading FUD.

mbec2
06-03-2011, 03:59 PM
Improved black filter, slightly improved black levels, better color accuracy, better 3D with less cross-talk than the Panasonics, to name a few. You should get your facts straight before spreading FUD.

1) What does Panasonic have to do with this thread? Its about the Samsung's. Maybe you should stay on topic for a change? Stop bringing up other companies *sigh*

2) You are a known Panasonic hater

3) Everything I just said was FACT.

"The large sizes only improved a mere .001 in mll (.0068 vs .008)"

-FACT

"This display has fluctuating gamma."

-FACT

"The 2010 models had basically the same blacks, with stable blacks (NO FLUCTUATING)."

-FACT


I'll stick with facts. Not opinions. Thanks.

kharaa
06-03-2011, 04:48 PM
I guess john by not being a panasonic fanboy, you're a hater now eh?

Guess you shouldn't mention that panasonic you own. ;)

mbec2
06-03-2011, 06:02 PM
I guess john by not being a panasonic fanboy, you're a hater now eh?

Guess you shouldn't mention that panasonic you own. ;)

Oh please. I have seen him on other forums than this site, and every time he goes into Panasonic threads, and starts cheerleading Samsungs. Oh and what do you know, he is going off topic in this thread, bringing up other brands inferiority to Samsung, just like he does in every single thread I see him post in.

dsskid
06-03-2011, 08:20 PM
Oh please. I have seen him on other forums than this site, and every time he goes into Panasonic threads, and starts cheerleading Samsungs. Oh and what do you know, he is going off topic in this thread, bringing up other brands inferiority to Samsung, just like he does in every single thread I see him post in.
Not a Panny hater, just calling it like it is. I own Panasonic bd players, plasma, camcorder, digital camera, groomer, etc.

My opinion is based on fact and not an agenda.

When talking about displays, comparisons are inevitable. How else does one measure performance against another other than calibration reports, which many have trouble relating to.

You criticize the Samsung when the brand you cheerlead for, actually took a step back in every category this year. Why come to a Samsung owners thread for the sole purpose of bad mouthing the D8000? What is your agenda?

If you read my threads, I congratulate members on their purchases regardless of choice.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them, or learn how to put me on ignore, as I do with posters of your caliber.

Loves2Watch
06-04-2011, 08:41 AM
Every brand of TV has their strengths and weaknesses. We all have to decide what is acceptable to us whether we are a video purist or not, any and all information about the above is important for a consumer to make an informed decision.

There are many informed and knowledgeable members here that have a greater depth of understanding pertaining to the finite details of displays that many of the other members could not understand. That is where we can all benefit, from their uses, testing and observations.

I, for one welcome all of this information as it makes decisions easier based of facts rather than conjecture, media hype, advertising, etc.

As long as there is no product bashing, all information, based on fact and real world experience is a welcome addition.

Please have fun and be kind...

robc1976
06-04-2011, 10:05 PM
Oh please. I have seen him on other forums than this site, and every time he goes into Panasonic threads, and starts cheerleading Samsungs. Oh and what do you know, he is going off topic in this thread, bringing up other brands inferiority to Samsung, just like he does in every single thread I see him post in.All I can say is he didn't hate on mine:) He hs been extemely helpful to me and others on many other threads.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/robc1976/Untitled.png

dsskid
06-09-2011, 05:48 AM
Cnet's review of the Samsung PN59D8000....
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn59d8000/4505-6482_7-34468622.html?tag=cnetRiver

robc1976
06-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Cnet's review of the Samsung PN59D8000....
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn59d8000/4505-6482_7-34468622.html?tag=cnetRiverAwesome Review, thanks for the link! :)

velcrow12
11-30-2011, 02:58 PM
How long are the power cords for the pnxxd8000 series?

THANKS!

robc1976
11-30-2011, 04:48 PM
How long are the power cords for the pnxxd8000 series?

THANKS!I believe 8ft...mine is zip-tied or I would measure it LOL!!