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Sony fights off PS3 hackers via lawsuits

GLOW
01-12-2011, 09:12 AM
Yes folks, you heard it right! Sony has filed legal suits against famed hacker GeoHot, the fail0verflow team and several other hackers for recently smashing the Sony’s “Private Keys” that opened up the PS3 security, enabling users to use unauthorized programs on the system.

As posted by GeoHot on his official site, the suit alleged that the defendants are in violation of federal copyright law as they have "circumvented multiple encryption and access controls in order to retrieve and compromise various Keys used by SCEA to prevent individuals from running unauthorized code on the PS3 system."

Sony also pointed out that the hackers “trafficked in circumvention technology, products, services, methods, codes, software tools, devices, component or part thereof, including but not limited to the Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm Keys, encryption and/or decryption keys, dePKG firmware decrypter program, Signing Tools, 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak, and/or any other technologies that enable unauthorized access to and/or copying of PS3 Systems and other copyrighted works.”

Sony has requested the court for a temporary restraining order and "seeks the impoundment of any and all media in which circumvention devices are stored within the possession, custody or control of Defendants, including computers, hard drives, CD-ROMs, DVDs, USB sticks and other media.

If you can't beat 'em at their own game, beat em in court... right? ;)

awol
01-12-2011, 09:16 AM
I was curious if they have actually broken any laws... Dunno how all that stuff works.

GLOW
01-12-2011, 09:24 AM
I was curious if they have actually broken any laws... Dunno how all that stuff works.

Me neither. It must be hard to find a judge that can actually follow all the tech speak.

kamspy
01-12-2011, 09:25 AM
Sony's lawyers told geohot to remove the keys from the internet.

:lol:

awol
01-12-2011, 10:34 AM
Me neither. It must be hard to find a judge that can actually follow all the tech speak.

I mean, I thought there was new legislation that passed recently that made it perfectly legal to unlock/jailbreak your device. It may void a warranty or whatever, but that it's no longer illegal and not in violation of the DMC. And that's all this is from what I can tell. If you actually pirate something, THEN you're in violation of the DMC and are liable. But not just for jailbreaking.

Razor05
01-12-2011, 10:41 AM
Sony's lawyers told geohot to remove the keys from the internet.

:lol:

Kind of late for that...the damage is done.

kamspy
01-12-2011, 11:01 AM
Kind of late for that...the damage is done.

Yeah, I was kinda foreshadowing what this case is going to be like.

I know publishers have to be looking at this and rethinking their PS3 strategy.

awol
01-12-2011, 11:20 AM
Yeah, I was kinda foreshadowing what this case is going to be like.

I know publishers have to be looking at this and rethinking their PS3 strategy.

I wouldn't think so. How many BD Burners are there out there... Or PC BD drives that are capable of ripping?

I'd be surprised if there were over 100K.

kamspy
01-12-2011, 11:25 AM
I wouldn't think so. How many BD Burners are there out there... Or PC BD drives that are capable of ripping?

I'd be surprised if there were over 100K.

All there needs to be is one.

External hard drives are going to be the killer.

awol
01-12-2011, 11:27 AM
All there needs to be is one.

External hard drives are going to be the killer.

Torrents??

You'd have to be pretty desperate to play games for free to download a 30-40 GB torrent file of a PS3 game.

kamspy
01-12-2011, 11:31 AM
Torrents??

You'd have to be pretty desperate to play games for free to download a 30-40 GB torrent file of a PS3 game.

That's been my stance on Sony's piracy prevention from here out. Killzone 3 and Uncharted 3 need to be bursting the 50 GB seams. First party isn't nearly as important though. Sony makes those games to promote the machine.

Problem is, third party games are a lot smaller. Blops is like 10GB on PS3. Fallout New Vegas is around 5 GB. Third party is the area of concern here. Licensing is where the money is.


GTA4 + expansions is 45 GB on PC and it's one of the most popular torrents, so I don't know how well padding can even help. People who can't afford to buy the game can probably afford to let it sit in their system tray for a week.

Razor05
01-12-2011, 11:33 AM
Torrents??

You'd have to be pretty desperate to play games for free to download a 30-40 GB torrent file of a PS3 game.

Lol, you wouldn't believe what people will do to get something for free.

Cygnus
01-12-2011, 11:33 AM
Typical $ony, if you can't beat em, sue em. :rolleyes: They got nothing. It was their fault for having poor security. Are they admitting that there is nothing else they can do? :what: Besides the horses are already out of the barn since the key has already been released :cool: Sony prob is hard at work on PS4 now :o

Razor05
01-12-2011, 11:35 AM
That's been my stance on Sony's piracy prevention from here out. Killzone 3 and Uncharted 3 need to be bursting the 50 GB seams. First party isn't nearly as important though. Sony makes those games to promote the machine.

Problem is, third party games are a lot smaller. Blops is like 10GB on PS3. Fallout New Vegas is around 5 GB. Third party is the area of concern here. Licensing is where the money is.

There's also an added cost to fill up that BD.

awol
01-12-2011, 11:37 AM
Lol, you wouldn't believe what people will do to get something for free.

Granted... :banghead:

Razor05
01-12-2011, 11:43 AM
I'm sure some guy would think letting the DL run for a week or two would be worth it.

Cygnus
01-12-2011, 12:08 PM
I can imagine guys at flea markets with TBs of PS3 games on a laptop, selling them via DVD or USB hard drive download.

Razor05
01-12-2011, 12:16 PM
Ya I can't see size being a deterrent for these guys.

awol
01-12-2011, 12:21 PM
I can imagine guys at flea markets with TBs of PS3 games on a laptop, selling them via DVD or USB hard drive download.

Ya I can't see size being a deterrent for these guys.

True... But you know what?? I don't know who's worse. People setting up shop at the flea market, or the people buying it.

kharaa
01-12-2011, 12:26 PM
Torrents??

You'd have to be pretty desperate to play games for free to download a 30-40 GB torrent file of a PS3 game.

i suspect there will be a compressed file image, like there is for the PSP.

(firmware rooted psp's can play a file type called CSO, which is like 1/3rd the size of a standard psp iso.)

Cygnus
01-12-2011, 12:52 PM
Hey..whats so bad about flea markets? Typical mac snob :lol:

True... But you know what?? I don't know who's worse. People setting up shop at the flea market, or the people buying it.

awol
01-12-2011, 02:05 PM
Hey..whats so bad about flea markets? Typical mac snob :lol:

Hope you didn't pull anything on that stretch to take my words out of context. :rolleyes:

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 02:26 PM
I mean, I thought there was new legislation that passed recently that made it perfectly legal to unlock/jailbreak your device. It may void a warranty or whatever, but that it's no longer illegal and not in violation of the DMC. And that's all this is from what I can tell. If you actually pirate something, THEN you're in violation of the DMC and are liable. But not just for jailbreaking.

The DMCA changes definitely do not makes what GH/F0F did legal...
Sony may actually have a case here. Of course that won't stop what's been done, but it can definitely slow it down.

jjufon
01-12-2011, 03:15 PM
The DMCA changes definitely do not makes what GH/F0F did legal...
Sony may actually have a case here. Of course that won't stop what's been done, but it can definitely slow it down.

i'm no lawyer, but according to them, their legal team told them they were good to go beforehand...

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 03:36 PM
i'm no lawyer, but according to them, their legal team told them they were good to go beforehand...
They all agreed to the PSN agreement (all 100+ of them)
Then trafficked in copy protection circumvention methods and software. Whether or not Sony has enough of a legal ground to actually win is somewhat irrelevant. They do have enough though to probably get TRO's to stop these guys from doing any further work on breaking the PS3 system...which buys Sony some time to try and 'fix' it.

Not that they can fully fix the whole situation, but like I said they could slow it down.

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 03:44 PM
Seems like another well known person is standing up to Sony in GeoHotz defense.

Mirror of GeoHot's PS3 Jailbreak -- January 11, 2011

Our friends at Sony are having another bad day: i.e., doing something breathtakingly stupid, presumably because they don't know any better. This time they're suing George Hotz for publishing PS3 jailbreak information, as reported by EnGadget and Attack of the Fan Boy. Hotz's jailbreak allows PS3 owners to run the software of their choice on a machine they have legally purchased. His site is geohot.com.

Free speech (and free computing) rights exist only for those determined to exercise them. Trying to suppress those rights in the Internet age is like spitting in the wind.

We will help our friends at Sony understand this by mirroring the geohot jailbreak files at Carnegie Mellon.

GeoHot Mirror

Click here for usage instructions.

Note to Sony lawyers: No doubt you're eager to rack up another billable hour by sending legal threats to me and my university. Before you go down that unhappy road, check out what happened the last time a large corporation tried to stop the mirroring of technical information here: The Gallery of CSS Descramblers. Have you learned anything in ten years?

David S. Touretzky
Research Professor of Computer Science
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213

awol
01-12-2011, 03:54 PM
Seems like another well known person is standing up to Sony in GeoHotz defense.

gutsy move on his part... hopefully he has the support of his university.

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 04:08 PM
gutsy move on his part... hopefully he has the support of his university.

He's done it before in the DeCSS matter, I believe the University backed him there too.

awol
01-12-2011, 04:22 PM
He's done it before in the DeCSS matter, I believe the University backed him there too.

Oh, so he was the same one that did it for the DeCSS thing? Well, then there's some precedent at least. It does seem somewhat odd that they waited for such a long time to actually do this. Why not do this immediately after it came out to lessen the "damage" as much as possible? Maybe all night sessions trying to figure out if there was a quick fix they could push out in the form of a FW update and then realizing there wasn't one... ?

Cygnus
01-12-2011, 04:29 PM
Heh...hilarious response to $ony. :haha: This is just giving the [email protected] more publicity...talk about the ultimate backfire :o


We will help our friends at Sony understand this by mirroring the geohot jailbreak files at Carnegie Mellon.

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Oh, so he was the same one that did it for the DeCSS thing? Well, then there's some precedent at least. It does seem somewhat odd that they waited for such a long time to actually do this. Why not do this immediately after it came out to lessen the "damage" as much as possible? Maybe all night sessions trying to figure out if there was a quick fix they could push out in the form of a FW update and then realizing there wasn't one... ?

Yes it was him for DeCSS. He's also fought the Church of Scientology... so he's no pushover.

As to Sony: I'm sure this is just one part of their response, and they probably did not do it immediately because they had to draw it all up and plan other actions at the same time. The hackers are still contending with changes made to the firmware in 3.55 from 3.41 that makes using backups very hard to do, and modifying the changes almost always results in a brick. If Sony can slow these guys down they could possibly enable other changes to make using backups difficult and block PSN access.


So far this has pushed the scene guys a little bit, they're all making mirrors of GeoHots and Fail0verflows sites.

awol
01-12-2011, 04:37 PM
So far this has pushed the scene guys a little bit, they're all making mirrors of GeoHots and Fail0verflows sites.

Almost kind of like a "You can't catch us all..." mentality... That's greatness! :lol:

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Almost kind of like a "You can't catch us all..." mentality... That's greatness! :lol:

Exactly. This stuff isn't just going to disappear because of a court case.

kamspy
01-12-2011, 05:02 PM
This reeks of desperation from to me. Probably posturing for long enough to sign some more licensing contracts with third parties before the Triple is looser than the DreamCast.

Pinoy
01-12-2011, 05:04 PM
This reeks of desperation from to me. Probably posturing for long enough to sign some more licensing contracts with third parties before the Triple is looser than the DreamCast.

Somehow I think it's more to placate the third party parties that they are actually doing something. I don't really think Sony is that worried about some piracy.

Besides that who knows...maybe they do have some hidden trick. For all we know they could take that pushfile from PS3 boot (which apparently sends a shitton of encrypted data) and if it doesn't come back right send just a little encrypted string back at ya blowing an efuse and killing your console... :what:

awol
01-12-2011, 05:11 PM
Besides that who knows...maybe they do have some hidden trick. For all we know they could take that pushfile from PS3 boot (which apparently sends a shitton of encrypted data) and if it doesn't come back right send just a little encrypted string back at ya blowing an efuse and killing your console... :what:

But again, keeping your hacked PS3 offline would essentially prevent that from happening.

PFC5
01-12-2011, 05:15 PM
Is anyone really surprised that Sony would file suit? Name any other company that wouldn't do this also.

mytime
01-12-2011, 05:22 PM
Is anyone really surprised that Sony would file suit? Name any other company that wouldn't do this also.

No I'm not. And after the rookit BS they pulled in 05 I truly hope they lose.

Cygnus
01-12-2011, 06:00 PM
And if they did that, and proven sony intentionally bricked hacked PS3s, couldn't they get sued? It would at least be a PR nightmare for them. Thus I don't see sony doing that, even if it was possible

For all we know they could take that pushfile from PS3 boot (which apparently sends a shitton of encrypted data) and if it doesn't come back right send just a little encrypted string back at ya blowing an efuse and killing your console... :what:

Pinoy
01-13-2011, 02:01 AM
Is anyone really surprised that Sony would file suit? Name any other company that wouldn't do this also.
Apple?
No I'm not. And after the rookit BS they pulled in 05 I truly hope they lose.
I really don't think they're in this to win it, it's a show. They're trying to scare these guys (the scene in whole) to slow them down.

I was in the ps3dev IRC channel today where some scene devs were testing out new firmwares and such... right when the news broke that Sony was taking people to court everybody in the channel got mass kicked and the devs shut it down.

And if they did that, and proven sony intentionally bricked hacked PS3s, couldn't they get sued? It would at least be a PR nightmare for them. Thus I don't see sony doing that, even if it was possible

Sorta like MS getting sued when somebody tried to update their jtagged xbox and it bricked because the efuse corresponding to that update had not been blown? Oh wait... that's right MS never got sued for that.

MS put efuses in their chip, everytime a major update would occur they would blow an efuse. Everytime you update it does an efuse count, if the count doesn't match=BRICK.

The idea is to stop people from being able to downgrade their firmwares to root their device. Sony may or may not be able to do the same thing.

railven
01-13-2011, 07:01 AM
I'm glad Pinoy knows how this stuff works. Least he can answer the majority of the questions and put that MS paid troll in his place.

I'd have to agree with Pinoy. You can't beat this kind of stuff. The court cases are just show, flare if you will, to ensure investors/contractors that they are trying to resolve the issue.

Look at piracy as a whole. Nothing stops it. Nothing will stop it. It's an endless "who's stick is bigger" contest that cost everyone a shitload of money, rights, and freedoms.

People will always steal, for whatever reason, and they can justify it all they want. And people can argue with them about how wrong they are. It won't change anything.

And DMCA laws do prevent you from doing what Overflow did. The new wording of the jailbreaking ammended currently only applies to iPhones and my guess is that ammended me will be looked over again and circumvention in terms of research/security. Find the thread where most people flamed Spamsies for misinterpretting it and promoting piracy.

Pinoy
01-13-2011, 01:01 PM
I'm glad Pinoy knows how this stuff works. Least he can answer the majority of the questions and put that MS paid troll in his place.

I'd have to agree with Pinoy. You can't beat this kind of stuff. The court cases are just show, flare if you will, to ensure investors/contractors that they are trying to resolve the issue.

Look at piracy as a whole. Nothing stops it. Nothing will stop it. It's an endless "who's stick is bigger" contest that cost everyone a shitload of money, rights, and freedoms.

People will always steal, for whatever reason, and they can justify it all they want. And people can argue with them about how wrong they are. It won't change anything.

And DMCA laws do prevent you from doing what Overflow did. The new wording of the jailbreaking ammended currently only applies to iPhones and my guess is that ammended me will be looked over again and circumvention in terms of research/security. Find the thread where most people flamed Spamsies for misinterpretting it and promoting piracy.

I'm pretty sure they could have JB'd ps3's legally...but I believe they used sony firmware and sony programs to do it. That would be illegal. But yes, it's all just bluster and fluff from Sony trying to scare people.

Last night I overheard a couple Sony execs talking about this over dinner... I just wanted to say something stupid like "NICE MASTERKEY DUMBASSES" but of course I didn't :lol:

PFC5
01-13-2011, 01:06 PM
Apple?

I really don't think they're in this to win it, it's a show. They're trying to scare these guys (the scene in whole) to slow them down.

I was in the ps3dev IRC channel today where some scene devs were testing out new firmwares and such... right when the news broke that Sony was taking people to court everybody in the channel got mass kicked and the devs shut it down.

Sorta like MS getting sued when somebody tried to update their jtagged xbox and it bricked because the efuse corresponding to that update had not been blown? Oh wait... that's right MS never got sued for that.

MS put efuses in their chip, everytime a major update would occur they would blow an efuse. Everytime you update it does an efuse count, if the count doesn't match=BRICK.

The idea is to stop people from being able to downgrade their firmwares to root their device. Sony may or may not be able to do the same thing.

Apple has filed many lawsuits against companies and people before. They sued MS over the GUI that they didn't even create (Xerox created it first) so they do it too.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=apple%20lawsuits&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=current+apple+lawsuits&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=941fdd304af83488&pf=p&pdl=300

Pinoy
01-13-2011, 01:38 PM
Apple has filed many lawsuits against companies and people before. They sued MS over the GUI that they didn't even create (Xerox created it first) so they do it too.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=apple%20lawsuits&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=current+apple+lawsuits&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=941fdd304af83488&pf=p&pdl=300

Sorry, I was kinda making fun... guess I should have put a :thumbsup:

kharaa
01-13-2011, 02:53 PM
Piracy will never be stopped. They can keep on trying to muscle it out of people, but eventually they'll just keep pushing them farther and farther underground.

Darknets such as freenet and TOR, offer nearly complete anonymity. But are slower than the second coming. But if they released through things such as those, there'd be no way to tell who was who.

Or they move to countries like china, or other countries that do not respect our copyright laws (like warezbb they're in china i think.)

When you screw your consumer more than the "pirates" you just create more piracy.

A on topic example? Ubisoft, and their assanine drm method that requires you to be online ALL the time to play their new games.

Pirates cracked that within a week, and the only people having to deal with that crap, were the legit consumers, whom got boinged when the servers went down, they weren't able to play their game.

kamspy
01-13-2011, 03:20 PM
The thing that makes this different than jailbreaking an iPhone is the Blu Ray movie aspect.

Hollywood is a tougher nut to crack in court than video game publishers.

Hitachi65SWX20B
01-13-2011, 04:44 PM
i cant believe how bad this is turning out... it kinda sucks to a degree

kamspy
01-13-2011, 04:45 PM
It's not just bad for Sony. This can even spill over to 360 game sales since people who own both console might be more likely to just pirate the PS3 version.

Pinoy
01-13-2011, 05:00 PM
i cant believe how bad this is turning out... it kinda sucks to a degree

It's not that bad. I'm kinda torn, I love my Sony products but I can't say they couldn't see this one coming.

Honestly as of right now piracy will not kill the system. If the devs figure out how to make a super easy backup manager then they'll lose a few sales and all but that's about it.

Hitachi65SWX20B
01-13-2011, 05:02 PM
thats why i didnt say it was bad for anyone in particular, Its bad as a whole. if that happens where software sales for both systems radically drops on multi plat games, it would be obvious that the devs will abandon the ps3 even faster or risk losing both cash cows instead of just one.

kharaa
01-13-2011, 05:07 PM
uhm guys, 360 hacking has been possible since like week 1.

it didn't kill that system either.

It won't really bother the PS3

Pinoy
01-13-2011, 05:09 PM
uhm guys, 360 hacking has been possible since like week 1.

it didn't kill that system either.

It won't really bother the PS3

It *could*. Look at third party game sales on the Wii, another compromised console :shrugs:

kharaa
01-13-2011, 05:17 PM
what does third party have to do with it though? first party games are just as pirateable(my word, i claim copyright. ;) )

and many of them are record selling games, i'd more say that third party games on the wii lack quality.

Cygnus
01-13-2011, 05:25 PM
I don't see the wii audience attracting pirates anyway...

kamspy
01-13-2011, 05:50 PM
360 piracy requires open case surgery and soldering last time I checked.

PS3 stuff appears to be 100% software.

kharaa
01-13-2011, 07:05 PM
no soldering, just open case.

takes about 15 minutes. pretty easy imo

Hitachi65SWX20B
01-13-2011, 07:46 PM
360 piracy requires open case surgery and soldering last time I checked.

PS3 stuff appears to be 100% software.

thats what i'm saying, either way the 360 and i'm pretty sure the wii requires you to open it and change something, somehow. where the ps3 it seems will only need the digital keys to be on the disk, 100% software and Nothing has to be done to the ps3 itself. i think if this is the case, there is Nothing sony can do to stop it. No PSN ban, No bricking of console, Nothing. the ps3 is going to see that disk as Official ps3 software and not realize its a pirated game and give the Full go ahead to play.

Hitachi65SWX20B
01-13-2011, 07:47 PM
no soldering, just open case.

takes about 15 minutes. pretty easy imo

not no where as easy as a kid buying a burned copy of COD BLOPS at a local flea market and just putting it in his ps3 and playing it... just saying..

kamspy
01-13-2011, 07:49 PM
no soldering, just open case.

takes about 15 minutes. pretty easy imo

Was there a time it required soldering?

kharaa
01-13-2011, 07:50 PM
hmm, possibly? Not any time I remember. tbh, I only remember the drive firmware mod.

kamspy
01-13-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah, I remember soldering resistors.

Pinoy
01-14-2011, 01:37 AM
thats what i'm saying, either way the 360 and i'm pretty sure the wii requires you to open it and change something, somehow. where the ps3 it seems will only need the digital keys to be on the disk, 100% software and Nothing has to be done to the ps3 itself. i think if this is the case, there is Nothing sony can do to stop it. No PSN ban, No bricking of console, Nothing. the ps3 is going to see that disk as Official ps3 software and not realize its a pirated game and give the Full go ahead to play.

The 360 'had' softmods, all you needed was a memory device that the 360 would accept that you could also use on your pc. Alternatively you could also use another chipped or softmodded 360 to do it as well. The ability to softmod 360's as time went on and the system was refined became less and less.

The Wii...All you need is a memory card and the right software, just like the 360 in the early days.


You guys are still a bit confused too about the ps3 thing. You can NOT simply just burn a game to disc (even a BD) and expect the PS3 to play it. There is apparently a section on commercial BD's that consumer BD burners cannot duplicate. So far the best method the scene has found is ripping a game to the PS3's hard drive using a file manager program, and yes they have to go into specific folders, and then grabbing the games Eboot file and repacking it to look like a hard disk PSN game... and they're not exactly having spectacular success rates with that.

They will eventually find a way to package the games into an installable type deal... but I doubt we'll see burned discs being playable, nor straight back up rips unless the ripper actually has some practice doing this sort of thing.

kamspy
01-14-2011, 10:24 AM
They could sell most third party games on a 8 GB USB stick. Maybe even start loading external hard drives full of games and selling them as 20 in 1s.

Pinoy
01-14-2011, 01:35 PM
They could sell most third party games on a 8 GB USB stick. Maybe even start loading external hard drives full of games and selling them as 20 in 1s.

Sure... once people at large can figure out how to use a file manager to follow a direction like Copy the USRDIR FOLDER to /dev_hdd0/game/BLES00937/USRDIR and the person selling it actually put in the foot work to repackage the eboot into a .pkg.

Pinoy
01-15-2011, 02:08 AM
I'd have to agree with Pinoy. You can't beat this kind of stuff. The court cases are just show, flare if you will, to ensure investors/contractors that they are trying to resolve the issue.

Just to reiterate another example:
Like I said before it's also to scare other homebrew hackers... for example the guy who was working on cracking the PS3's LV2 and 1 systems:

@flukes1: we have full control of lv1 and lv2 from our test application running as a normal pkg under gameos
@flukes1: the issue with lv2 pokes causing shutdown was caused by some protection added in 3.55
@flukes1: we found it and disabled it
@flukes1: i'm not finished
@flukes1: this is the bit you won't like: there will be no public release
@flukes1: due to the current circumstances

kharaa
01-15-2011, 04:20 AM
he should release it publically on TOR, it would be virtually impossible to identify who released it, and legally he would have plausable deniability.

Pinoy
01-15-2011, 04:31 AM
he should release it publically on TOR, it would be virtually impossible to identify who released it, and legally he would have plausable deniability.

Yep...

And GeoHot should have never said anything and just posted the master keys somewhere completely random.

Fail0verflow should have should never have released their findings at the most known hacker conference on the planet either...

Starting to see a pattern here :lol:
Hackers =! Smart

kharaa
01-15-2011, 04:42 AM
Indeed. ._.;

Chris Gerhard
01-15-2011, 05:32 AM
Typical $ony, if you can't beat em, sue em. :rolleyes: They got nothing. It was their fault for having poor security. Are they admitting that there is nothing else they can do? :what: Besides the horses are already out of the barn since the key has already been released :cool: Sony prob is hard at work on PS4 now :o

What has been done is either a crime or it is not a crime but their fault for not having better security won't be a good defense if it is a crime. Judge, it was Wal-Mart's fault for not having better security so it was alright for me to walk out with that HDTV without paying. That is a really funny concept.

PFC5
01-15-2011, 10:27 AM
What has been done is either a crime or it is not a crime but their fault for not having better security won't be a good defense if it is a crime. Judge, it was Wal-Mart's fault for not having better security so it was alright for me to walk out with that HDTV without paying. That is a really funny concept.

Exactly Chris!

Sometimes people have to reverse the shoes to see if they would like something done to them or their property or income source to see this simple dispelling of BS excuses trying to justify stealing.

kamspy
01-15-2011, 10:54 AM
Sure... once people at large can figure out how to use a file manager to follow a direction like Copy the USRDIR FOLDER to /dev_hdd0/game/BLES00937/USRDIR and the person selling it actually put in the foot work to repackage the eboot into a .pkg.

and you think it's impossible for a homebrew app to streamline that?:rolleyes::lol:

Cygnus
01-15-2011, 12:13 PM
But walmart does not brag about how it is impossible to steal HDTVs from their store either ;)

What has been done is either a crime or it is not a crime but their fault for not having better security won't be a good defense if it is a crime. Judge, it was Wal-Mart's fault for not having better security so it was alright for me to walk out with that HDTV without paying. That is a really funny concept.

GLOW
01-15-2011, 12:18 PM
But walmart does not brag about how it is impossible to steal HDTVs from their store either ;)

LOL. :lol: Link? This is just you imagining things again because you know Sony used to be very cocky about their system.

PFC5
01-15-2011, 12:42 PM
But walmart does not brag about how it is impossible to steal HDTVs from their store either ;)

And what does being cocky have to do with people breaking the law and stealing? Believe me, Walmart is VERY cocky. Just look how few checkout counters they keep open and have customers waiting in long lines to give them money. ;)

Pinoy
01-15-2011, 12:42 PM
and you think it's impossible for a homebrew app to streamline that?:rolleyes::lol:

Of course it's possible... but I'd hate to be the person who wrote it unless there head wasn't up their ass and actually did it anonymously, otherwise there would be a definite court case :lol:


A couple others scene devs are suggesting that the keys that GeoHot released are not the master keys, but rather simply just one pair of extracted keys that Sony can indeed revoke.

awol
01-15-2011, 01:42 PM
A couple others scene devs are suggesting that the keys that GeoHot released are not the master keys, but rather simply just one pair of extracted keys that Sony can indeed revoke.

Another example of "cat and mouse" you think??

kamspy
01-15-2011, 02:04 PM
I guess it should be noted that you can follow this at #PS3Dev on IRC.

Pinoy
01-15-2011, 03:44 PM
Another example of "cat and mouse" you think??
More of GeoHot attempting to cover his ass. He notes that he did enable a ps3 jailbreak to run homebrew, but the manner that he did it does not allow to run backup managers/games by default.

Of course it also allows others to make their own homebrew to do so...
I guess it should be noted that you can follow this at #PS3Dev on IRC.

Indeed.

amdgamer
02-07-2011, 09:33 PM
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2011/02/07/sony_lawyers_targeting_anybody_posting_ps3_hack

I saw this piece on my daily computer news hunt. Wow, Sony is about to be taught a lesson if this is how they plan on going after people who have jailbroken their PS3's. They are going to learn that this type of response is only going to make every hacker and their momma's come after you for fun as Microsoft learned a long time ago.

It looks like Sony's lawyers are threatening to sue anyone posting or distributing that PS3 hack. But wait, the story doesn't end there, it gets better:



What’s more, the company is demanding that a federal judge order Google to surrender the IP addresses and other identifying information (.pdf) of those who have viewed or commented about the jailbreak video on a private YouTube page. The game maker is also demanding that Twitter provide the identities of a host of hackers who first unveiled a limited version of the hack in December.

PFC5
02-08-2011, 11:39 AM
It may get more hard core hackers going after Sony, but I suspect a lot more will think twice before trying to hack their PS3 if they know how far Sony will go to identify them.

Pinoy
02-08-2011, 01:38 PM
It may get more hard core hackers going after Sony, but I suspect a lot more will think twice before trying to hack their PS3 if they know how far Sony will go to identify them.

That's exactly what they're going for.

PFC5
02-08-2011, 03:57 PM
I figure the casual hacker would think twice if they do not want to pay the cost of a lawyer. Hardcore hackers will cover their tracks anyway I would think.

kharaa
02-08-2011, 04:02 PM
easily, using onion routing, such as the TOR darknet there would be no way to ever prove he was the one that released it

Pinoy
02-23-2011, 01:46 PM
Looks like Sony's war machine is still spinning up:

German police raided known PS3 hacker Graf Chokolo's home this morning, seizing his computers. In response Graf (true to his word) said FUCK YOU SONY and released his "hypervisor bible" en masse to the net (guys pretty much a genius)

In response to these events other scene dev Mathieluh has closed the PS3 wiki stating that "I don't want to be arbitrarily raided by sony" and has also protected his tweets on twitter.


http://picture.funnycorner.net/funny-pictures/5283/Flee.jpg

kamspy
02-23-2011, 03:40 PM
How long will it take until the real black hats bite? I'm sure they don't like seeing kids go to jail.

Pinoy
02-23-2011, 04:36 PM
How long will it take until the real black hats bite? I'm sure they don't like seeing kids go to jail.

Math, Graf, and geo sure aren't kids...
And when the black hats feel prompted to act they won't be doing it in a "hey here I am come get me" manner. Graf didn't go to jail BTW, and neither has geohot. This is all part of Sony's "scare the shit out of them" plan...

kamspy
02-23-2011, 04:45 PM
I was using jail as a figure of speech.

By black hats I mean the old man hacking crowd. The ones who don't attach names or participate in the more public "scene". Guys who might accidentally leave AACS keys laying around every corner of the internet. It's not like someone out there doesn't already have them.

By kids I mean innocent young people. I didn't mean in it a "script kiddie" negative way. I love hackers. They're our only hope against the banks.

If those AACS keys get left out, Sony would get sued by everyone who's ever published a Blu Ray movie.

Pinoy
02-23-2011, 04:52 PM
By black hats I mean the old man hacking crowd. The ones who don't attach names or participate in the more public "scene". Guys who might accidentally leave AACS keys laying around every corner of the internet.
I know what you meant, and that's what I meant by the 'hey I'm here' comment. geohot is a glory hound.

It's not like someone out there doesn't already have them.

Yep... geohot does. He could have slinked off and released them anonymously but he won't. Too concerned with the "glory" or retaining a possible chance to bargain with Sony or get a job there.


By kids I mean innocent young people. I didn't mean in it a "script kiddie" negative way. I love hackers. They're our only hope against the banks.

Oh those guys listed are definitely not skiddies. They're also not really innocent either :lol:

kamspy
02-23-2011, 05:02 PM
I think if a someone wants sell a closed hardware / software platform, it's their responsibility to keep it secure. Not the court's.

I've only seen a few "names" mentioned but I don't think any of them have released pirated software. I wouldn't considering releasing the tools a crime, since it's the same tools someone would use to install a game they own.

These are horrible times when can go to jail for modifying something you own.

Will Lynksis start pushing people's shit in for running Tomato firmware? :lol:


Sony are really horrible people.

Pinoy
02-23-2011, 05:14 PM
I think if a someone wants sell a closed hardware / software platform, it's their responsibility to keep it secure. Not the court's.

I've only seen a few "names" mentioned but I don't think any of them have released pirated software. I wouldn't considering releasing the tools a crime, since it's the same tools someone would use to install a game they own.

These are horrible times when can go to jail for modifying something you own.

Will Lynksis start pushing people's shit in for running Tomato firmware? :lol:


Sony are really horrible people.

Sony is securing their console on their own, the court isn't doing it :what:

As to modifying something you own... if these guys had done this to their own purchased hardware and that's it then they wouldn't be up on trial right now. But... the (yay) DMCA doesn't allow for spreading DRM circumvention. All things considered... yeah it sucks for the scene guys. But if they didn't have their heads up their ass and release publicly rather than 'quietly' then they wouldn't have a problem at all.

I mean who didn't think that Sony would push legal action?
I mean I'm all for hacking my own systems (obviously) but I just don't blame Sony for doing what they are. They've provided a platform for people to buy and sell content on, they have to protect it not only for their vendors but for their customers as well. I don't want every game and the PSN hacked to all hell...

As to Linksys and tomato... I doubt they'd have a foot to stand on legally.

kamspy
02-23-2011, 05:22 PM
I mean securing it without the aid of the legal system. They almost made it over half the life cycle without it being hacked. It's not impossible. One different design choice and this whole situation would never have happened. Sure it might have been hacked later. But it wasn't looking particularly bright before the exploit.

There should be no law for this. The onus should be on Sony to secure their own hardware. Sony is using our tax dollars to do this.

Pinoy
02-24-2011, 01:34 AM
I mean securing it without the aid of the legal system.
They did. You go to 3.56 you are stuck on OFW. Will a workaround be found? Probably given time and effort.

They almost made it over half the life cycle without it being hacked. It's not impossible. One different design choice and this whole situation would never have happened.
It might be impossible. The PS3 made it farther than _any other_ console by a large margin, and even now if you walk into a store to buy a ps3 to hack it just isn't happening. They've fixed their ECDSA key signature, they've changed some of the syscalls earlier firmwares were using... but I still say one day it'll eventually be hacked again.
Sure it might have been hacked later. But it wasn't looking particularly bright before the exploit.
The key slip up? Or the USB dongle bypass? Because geohot used neither of these methods to get those keys ;)

There should be no law for this. The onus should be on Sony to secure their own hardware. Sony is using our tax dollars to do this.
Just remember you can sue anybody for anything. If the DMCA didn't exist Sony could still take them to court in the US. As to Sony using our tax dollars to do this... well they pay taxes too.

They've invested a shit-ton of money in the PS brand and the PS3 in particular. They might be going a bit off the draconian end but I sorta can't blame them. I mean... if you were Sony what would you do? Send a hit squad :lol:

Nexgenrulz
03-05-2011, 10:15 PM
Here's a little update.

http://kotaku.com/#!5777368/sony-action-against-hacker-exposes-visitors-to-his-web-site

A federal magistrate in San Francisco ruled Sony may subpoena the IP addresses of everyone who visited George Hotz's personal Web site in the past 26 months. Those who did so and live in Northern California may be especially concerned, as Sony sought the subpoena on grounds to prove that the case belongs in federal court for that jurisdiction, and not in New Jersey, where Hotz (pictured) lives.

kharaa
03-05-2011, 11:07 PM
They did. You go to 3.56 you are stuck on OFW. Will a workaround be found? Probably given time and effort.


It might be impossible. The PS3 made it farther than _any other_ console by a large margin, and even now if you walk into a store to buy a ps3 to hack it just isn't happening. They've fixed their ECDSA key signature, they've changed some of the syscalls earlier firmwares were using... but I still say one day it'll eventually be hacked again.

The key slip up? Or the USB dongle bypass? Because geohot used neither of these methods to get those keys ;)


Just remember you can sue anybody for anything. If the DMCA didn't exist Sony could still take them to court in the US. As to Sony using our tax dollars to do this... well they pay taxes too.

They've invested a shit-ton of money in the PS brand and the PS3 in particular. They might be going a bit off the draconian end but I sorta can't blame them. I mean... if you were Sony what would you do? Send a hit squad :lol:

They're definately taking this too far, i suspect that the fair use act will be invoked here, they already ruled that it was legal to firmware hack your iphone, it sets precedents. As far as i'm aware also you're not leasing the hardware from them, once you buy it, it's yours.

They have every right to ban you from PSN for hacking your PS3, but sueing you for something? ...nahhh.