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Black bars and plasma's?

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 09:29 AM
What impact do the black bars have on plasma's?

Bigloww
05-06-2010, 09:33 AM
What impact do the black bars have on plasma's?

That would depend on how hard you hit the TV and how big the bar was... Impact is everything.

pappylap
05-06-2010, 09:47 AM
Black Bars for an extended period (more than 2 hours) are a no-no during the first 200 hours of operation this is known as the "break-in" period and when the new pixels do the majority of their adjusting during the panels entire lifespan.

http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_2787.gif...Just read this for the optimum care in new plasma ownership...

http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/105519-those-still-concerned-about-burn.html

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm talking about the SD, etc black bars.

So after the break-in, the black bars have no impact to burn-in?

PFC5
05-06-2010, 10:30 AM
If you watch a lot of SD material with the black pillar bars on the sides then that could over time show that the area where the black bars are shown for extended periods repeatedly would age slower than the center area.

I actually use the JUST mode with SD material myself and it is the best at filling the screen on my 2008 model than I have seen on any display before it. You could also go with the dark gray bars instead of black bars to avoid that issue if you cannot adjust to the JUST mode, but you likely can.

Another nice thing about my 2008 Panasonic plasma is that when I set my cable box to "Pass-Through" the source signal instead of converting it to only one HD output, the better scalers in the TV do a better job scaling SD signals AND the display will automatically remember to use the JUST mode with SD signals and use FULL mode with HD signals. That makes the process automatic and is a very nice feature.

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm not sure how much SD I watch, I've only been looking for it since I started considering a plasma. Some movie channels also use top/bottom black bars with a logo.

I'm considering the TC-P50G20 (2010 model), I downloaded the manual and I don't see an option for gray bars. I don't really want to put up with switching screens all the time or stretched images. But I'm interested in a better display than my new 55 LCD.

My STB doesn't have a pass though.

rysmith1782
05-06-2010, 11:29 AM
i'm not sure how much sd i watch, i've only been looking for it since i started considering a plasma. Some movie channels also use top/bottom black bars with a logo.

I'm considering the tc-p50g20 (2010 model), i downloaded the manual and i don't see an option for gray bars. I don't really want to put up with switching screens all the time or stretched images. But i'm interested in a better display than my new 55 lcd.

My stb doesn't have a pass though.


mavrik... Ive had the 50" g20 for about 3-4 weeks now... I havent had any problems what-so-ever with any image retention from black bars, logos and/or video games. Its a great tv. You'll love it. Plus, id gladly sacrifice a few "stretched" images in order to have superior pic quality over lcd.

PFC5
05-06-2010, 11:38 AM
I'm not sure how much SD I watch, I've only been looking for it since I started considering a plasma. Some movie channels also use top/bottom black bars with a logo.

I'm considering the TC-P50G20 (2010 model), I downloaded the manual and I don't see an option for gray bars. I don't really want to put up with switching screens all the time or stretched images. But I'm interested in a better display than my new 55 LCD.

My STB doesn't have a pass though.

That option IS in the TV menus to use lighter bars. You just missed it.

What brand/model STB do you have? If it is a Scientific Atlantic STB it DOES have pass-through, but if a Motorola it doesn't.

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 12:47 PM
Will 3-4 weeks (how many view hours?) show screen retention for non-bar static viewing? Only after a few days I'm sick of the LCD, makes me feel like I'm on LSD.

OK, I did miss it, it says it's for 4:3 mode only, which I assume is the TV setting and not input feed. This won't help much since I use 16:9 screen setting.

I don't know what brand it is, it just says VIP211, Dish network. Are STB interchangeable with the card? Or do they have to come out and do S/N BS? I rather go automatic screen displays.

PFC5
05-06-2010, 12:53 PM
I believe you can use a pass-through (might be called "By-Pass) setting on the DISH STBs but I never had them so not sure. Check the DISH network section here for more info help with the rest of that.

It is for SD which is almost always sent in the 4:3 format except on Showtime which often times uses the OAR (Original Aspect Ratio) of the movie. SO THAT is when you would need those gray side bars if you didn't want to use the excellent (IMO) JUST stretching mode.

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 01:27 PM
I looked though the STB menus and didn't see anything that resembles a pass though, but I have missed things before :) I'll do a search to see what comes up with my STB model.

So your saying the TV will change the side bars to gray automatically with the 4:3 input signal even if the STB and TV is set to 16:9 out/input?

Looking at the remote for this TV it does have a format button, to cycle though aspect ratios. My current sets I have to go though menus and subs to change it, a real pain.

Going back to the black bars, you mention an aging difference over time. What kind of time are you talking about, 100 viewing hours? Things should be reference to viewing hours since everyone's TV on time is different.

How about this, am I being overly concerned about screen retention with black bars? I want the TV to last for the 100,000 hours the manufacture promises.

pappylap
05-06-2010, 01:44 PM
All from the link I provided....:banghead:

I assume and I believe the advantage of the break-in slides is that you get each individual pixel being lit (aged) at the same intensity and each pixel using its entire range of color................You dont see very much sky blue in the bottom third of the screen while watching regular content.

(1) Some obvious advice: Do not leave static images on your plasma TV screen for more than an hour. Turn off your unit when you are not watching it. Do not pause DVDs for more than 20 minutes at a time.

(2) Know that plasma screens are more prone to burn-in during their first 200 hours of use. When phosphors are fresh, they burn more intensely as they are ignited. This means that relatively new plasma display TVs are prone to "ghosting", which occurs when on-screen images appear to stay on the screen belatedly. This is a function of the high intensity with which new phosphors "pop," and this phenomenon usually "washes out" on its own, as the screen displays subsequent images. Displaying a bright, or moving snow image (as with a DVD or VCR with no input) will "wash" a ghost image from the screen in most cases. Many plasma manufacturers have installed anti-burn settings, which are monotone gray or snow screen settings which recalibrate pixel intensity levels uniformly - thus eliminating any image retention (ghosting). It is a good idea to run this type of program after the first 100 hours or so.

(3) Adjust the CONTRAST setting at or below 50% on your new plasma TV. These days most plasma TVs are preset to either peak or very high contrast (also called picture setting on many TVs). This forces phosphors to glow more intensely, which decreases the length of time necessary for burn-in to occur. Our advice is to reduce the contrast setting to 50% or less for the first 200 hours of use. And, be sure to avail yourself of your plasma's anti-burn-in features.

(6) Realize that quality matters with burn-in as with everything else. Purchase a plasma display that has really good scaling, so that you can watch 4:3 TV programs in widescreen comfortably. It is better not to display black bars on your TV screen for prolonged periods of time (especially in the first 200 hours), so you are probably better off watching most everything in "full screen" mode. This should not be much of a problem todays selection of widescreen HDTV and DVDT content.

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 01:58 PM
Thanks, I read that thread a couple of days ago. It didn't specifically address black bars after the break-in.

pappylap
05-06-2010, 02:11 PM
If you consistently watch content in letterbox format you will eventually be left with a panel that has an area of slightly darker appearing pixels at the perimeter of the display...however, mixing the content up with full screen programming will eliminate this potentially unwanted side effect...

Do try to watch some HD content on your HD set........

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 02:46 PM
OK, so if I do what I'm already doing, watch whatever aspect ratio (always different) the SAT is broadcasting in, I won't have any retention, correct?

I have HD SAT service and I only watch the HD channels, but they do broadcast in letterbox.

ivtec
05-06-2010, 04:04 PM
Why to go through all that if you could get an LCD TV and not worry about side black bars burn ins,200 hours 50% contrast all all that.
here in USA 90% people buy LCD the other 10% buy plasma cause it's cheaper..

pappylap
05-06-2010, 04:10 PM
I won't have any retention, correct?

Watching without black bars has to do with pixel aging not image retention. You see, the phosphers within a plasma "age" and with use they age more rapidly, losing their ability to be as bright and as crisp as they once were... So there is this thing called "half-life" typically the half-life of current plasmas is around 100,000 hours at that point the display unit should only be able to produce an image half as bright and crisp as when the unit was new....where does the caution about black bars come in you ask?.....Well, if my display has a consistantly dark area around the perimeter of the screen "Black Bars" the plasma cells in that area are not going to "age" at the same rate as the ones in the center of the screen showing all those pretty colors and bright scenes and over time the cells at the perimeter are going to be "younger" than the ones working to produce the images and will be brighter, just a bit out of sync with those "older" pixels.........and you end up over time with a display that has unequal pixel age and does not produce a uniform and consistant image throughout. Granted it would take thousands of hours for this to happen to a noticable degree except during the initial phase of the plasma's life when pixel aging occurs much more rapidly...........See?

oblioman
05-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Why to go through all that if you could get an LCD TV and not worry about side black bars burn ins,200 hours 50% contrast all all that.
here in USA 90% people buy LCD the other 10% buy plasma cause it's cheaper..

:lol::lol: But in some case's,,,,cheaper is better. Why buy a high priced lcd that offers off axis viewing issues, lag times, uneven backlighting,,,,when one can purchase a superior pic quality for cheaper??? Do you change the oil on your car? Do you change the filters on your HVAC? Some things require TLC,,,and if me gets 100,000 hours out of me plasma because me took the the time to break it in for 200 hours,,,it's well worth it. BTW,,,what's the rated hours on your lcd? 60,000 perhaps.:haha:

pappylap
05-06-2010, 04:21 PM
Why to go through all that if you could get an LCD TV and not worry about side black bars burn ins,200 hours 50% contrast all all that.
here in USA 90% people buy LCD the other 10% buy plasma cause it's cheaper..

http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_16952.gif...Dead wrong being cheaper is simply a bonus... LCD manufacturers count on people such as yourself (Sheeple) who will believe the smoke & mirrors about 240 hz, motion enhancement and LED backlighting so you will pay more for a slightly lower standard.
I challenge you to show this forum one professional review where an LCD, or LED/LCD unit rates a superior picture to a quality plasma....guess what there aren't any.

Every videophile (a person particularly concerned with video imagery) I know owns Plasma.... for one reason they produce the best image.

ivtec
05-06-2010, 04:27 PM
:lol::lol: But in some case's,,,,cheaper is better. Why buy a high priced lcd that offers off axis viewing issues, lag times, uneven backlighting,,,,when one can purchase a superior pic quality for cheaper??? Do you change the oil on your car? Do you change the filters on your HVAC? Some things require TLC,,,and if me gets 100,000 hours out of me plasma because me took the the time to break it in for 200 hours,,,it's well worth it. BTW,,,what's the rated hours on your lcd? 60,000 perhaps.:haha:

It must be for your eyes and only your eyes cause you can see that most people like bright sharp vivid pic on all ambiances and you can get that with LCD: here in the USA people don't buy plasma no more.i have an 2002 Sony 36"HD Tube and i would not trade it for any plasma.i know this guy that bought a 52" plasma and he had to get some extra Fans and put them behinde the tv to keep it cool cause it warms up like a heater.

pappylap
05-06-2010, 04:32 PM
It must be for your eyes and only your eyes cause you can see that most people like bright sharp vivid pic on all ambiances and you can get that with LCD: here in the USA people don't buy plasma no more.i have an 2002 Sony 36"HD Tube and i would not trade it for any plasma.i know this guy that bought a 52" plasma and he had to get some extra Fans and put them behinde the tv to keep it cool cause it warms up like a heater.

You buy your LED LCD, set it to "torch" mode and enjoy it.............Please, just don't invite me to come over to watch a movie.:cool:

ivtec
05-06-2010, 05:12 PM
You buy your LED LCD, set it to "torch" mode and enjoy it.............Please, just don't invite me to come over to watch a movie.:cool:

To tell you the trueth i don't like Leds much either cause most have a red tint convergence,and don't look that natural pic.
for now still keep my tube.

oblioman
05-06-2010, 05:27 PM
To tell you the trueth i don't like Leds much either cause most have a red tint convergence,and don't look that natural pic.
for now still keep my tube.

You just go on keeping the tube. If it fit's for you and show's HD,,it must be floating your boat. But one thing to keep in mind, we do like to educate people to the difference between LCD & plasma and 99% of what we tell people is backed up by factual data. To bloviate in this section of the forum does nothing but negate any of your "opinions". Now please clue us in to some factual evidence about the led's causing red tint.

pappylap
05-06-2010, 05:39 PM
To tell you the trueth i don't like Leds much either cause most have a red tint convergence,and don't look that natural pic.
for now still keep my tube.

some factual evidence about the led's causing red tint.

and the problem with convergence, since convergence is limited to CRT and Projection televisions and is non existent in flat panel technology. My good man all I am sayin' is perhaps you should read up a bit more before trying to make a point that you seem quite incapable of making.

PFC5
05-06-2010, 06:53 PM
To tell you the trueth i don't like Leds much either cause most have a red tint convergence,and don't look that natural pic.
for now still keep my tube.

I am not sure where you have been getting your info from but you should avoid listening to that source anymore. They are giving you a mix of poor info and outright falsehoods.

Convergence issues do NOT effect LCDs (both florescent backlit nor LED lit) or plasmas. They DO effect RPTVs & CRTs though. ;)

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 09:35 PM
ivtec, check my thread " 55 inch LCD delays/blurry", in that thread I said I would never consider a plasma. After some research, now I'm trying to decide which plasma to get. You may want to do some research.

Mavrik
05-06-2010, 09:45 PM
OK, pappylap, I get it. I guess I'm suffering from some tunnel vision. I've been at my research a little too long. :)