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Edge-Lit LED-LCD Vs. Regular LCD

satam55
05-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Is there any other advantage of a Edge-Lit LED-LCD HDTV over a Regular LCD HDTV besides it uses less power?

Loves2Watch
05-05-2010, 07:03 PM
There are many more picture anomalies with an edge lit LCD then there are with a conventional CCFL LCD. So no an edge lit LED LCD display is actually worse than a standard LCD.

s2mikey
05-05-2010, 08:37 PM
There are many more picture anomalies with an edge lit LCD that there are with a conventional CCFL LCD. So no an edge lit LED LCD display is actually worse than a standard LCD.

I agree. A well implemented and designed CCFL(regular lighting) LCD can make a good image. The LED-based sets are hyped up but its mostly empty hype. Plus they are BIG money. No thanks!

SantaPimp27
05-06-2010, 12:03 AM
I would not recommend an Edge-Lit LCD to anyone. I have spend significant time watching the Samsung 6000 series and it is horrible. Flashlighting, off angle viewing is horrendous and black levels are just uhhh... not black whatsoever lol

You would be better of with a regular LCD or a full backlit one with local dimming.

PFC5
05-06-2010, 12:07 AM
I would not recommend an Edge-Lit LCD to anyone. I have spend significant time watching the Samsung 6000 series and it is horrible. Flashlighting, off angle viewing is horrendous and black levels are just uhhh... not black whatsoever lol

You would be better of with a regular LCD or a full backlit one with local dimming.

I agree with this. Edgelit is purely marketing where at least the backlit with local dimming can and does improve black levels. But damn they are so much more expensive compared to the better (IMO) overall PQ of a plasma. :p

caflashbob
05-07-2010, 06:40 PM
water under the bridge as they are not available any more BUT my kdl-52xbr10 has the most vivid color deepest blacks I personally have ever seen. yes very expensive. the tv with a sanus powered mount retracts into a hole in the wall in my living room where my 400xbr36 direct view tv used to be in. IF you say the others mentioned around here have an even better picture I would be shocked. jaw dropper. no wires with media center box. no side angle problems as I pan the tv to face my chair and tilt it down until it directly faces me. like cheating. sorry had to post. with the sony 5300 amp and a set of boston acoustics micro 100's and a pv1000 subwoofer will play rock concert up front volume level. no distortion. doesn't hurt your ears. hog heaven for an old tv salesman long ago. where was this 40 years ago? sammy screen in the sony? joint venture plant? not 3-d and expensive in a competitive market I guess. either I paid my contractor to redo my tv wall or luck into a tv that fit the hole perfectly. same money out of my wallet either way. bob

SantaPimp27
05-08-2010, 02:41 PM
water under the bridge as they are not available any more BUT my kdl-52xbr10 has the most vivid color deepest blacks I personally have ever seen. yes very expensive. the tv with a sanus powered mount retracts into a hole in the wall in my living room where my 400xbr36 direct view tv used to be in. IF you say the others mentioned around here have an even better picture I would be shocked. jaw dropper. no wires with media center box. no side angle problems as I pan the tv to face my chair and tilt it down until it directly faces me. like cheating. sorry had to post. with the sony 5300 amp and a set of boston acoustics micro 100's and a pv1000 subwoofer will play rock concert up front volume level. no distortion. doesn't hurt your ears. hog heaven for an old tv salesman long ago. where was this 40 years ago? sammy screen in the sony? joint venture plant? not 3-d and expensive in a competitive market I guess. either I paid my contractor to redo my tv wall or luck into a tv that fit the hole perfectly. same money out of my wallet either way. bob

Im sure you have a great tv and speakers, but saying your speakers can reach concert levels is ridiculous. Your speakers probably have trouble touching 100db let alone 115db

jvidjr
05-08-2010, 09:31 PM
Wait so LCD is better than LED?

Loves2Watch
05-09-2010, 02:37 AM
Wait so LCD is better than LED?

Yes a standard CCFL lit LCD display is better and has less problems than an edge lit LED, LCD display...

PFC5
05-09-2010, 08:51 AM
Yes a standard CCFL lit LCD display is better and has less problems than an edge lit LED, LCD display...

I agree. Now a backlit with local dimming LED actually improves black levels and the PQ is better than standard LCD with florescent backlighting, but they introduce some other issues and cost way too much IMO. For me a plasma being about half the price of a local dimming model makes much more sense.

Loves2Watch
05-09-2010, 01:06 PM
I agree. Now a backlit with local dimming LED actually improves black levels and the PQ is better than standard LCD with florescent backlighting, but they introduce some other issues and cost way too much IMO. For me a plasma being about half the price of a local dimming model makes much more sense.

That pretty much sums it up. Plus the plasma has a better picture, anyway.

caflashbob
05-09-2010, 11:23 PM
You cannot talk over it. Will have to get out my db meter. Small room. The same speakers as snell cls.5's X 4 plus a modified dual driven cone center channel plus the 1,000 watt pv1000 sub all Boston acoustics made in USA stuff. Add the new Sony 5300 digital amp. Interested to see but it's clairity disguises it's loudness. No distortion. Neighbors 200 feet away called the police on me years ago with a 444es Sony amp and same speakers. Single pane windows in 2x4 1988 construction house with doors and windows closed. Research micro 100's from Boston acoustics and see. I am an old rock and roll boom box speaker guy and this plays much louder and clearer. Rebuilt them once but the USA parts are not available anymore. Out of business. Cast aluminum wall mount heavy little boxes. Come on by and bring a test cd. Makes the cd changer skip and it's mounted on silicone feet. Pink Floyd pulse is unbelievable on DVD through this and I saw the show in 1993 in person. Way over 115. Trust me. The Sony amps and the high efficiency old Boston acoustics stuff was a magical combo. You will ask me to turn it down finally and ask about the neighbors as everyone does. Lots of us old guys had really loud equipement for a long time but the digital clarity is a big advantage. Before this I had klipsch and a Sony str1000 that played loud enough to vibrate out window panes in the windows that had small panes mounted on a slant with a crank handle to move them to horizontal from almost vertical. Fell out into the flower garden. Vibrated out of the end brackets. Old people like me don't play it that loud very often but the pink floyd is worth it. Do not mean to brag BUT this was setup to be a stereo rock and roll system not home theatre. The big screen is just the current video in the room.



Im sure you have a great tv and speakers, but saying your speakers can reach concert levels is ridiculous. Your speakers probably have trouble touching 100db let alone 115db

SantaPimp27
05-10-2010, 12:03 AM
You cannot talk over it. Will have to get out my db meter. Small room. The same speakers as snell cls.5's X 4 plus a modified dual driven cone center channel plus the 1,000 watt pv1000 sub all Boston acoustics made in USA stuff. Add the new Sony 5300 digital amp. Interested to see but it's clairity disguises it's loudness. No distortion. Neighbors 200 feet away called the police on me years ago with a 444es Sony amp and same speakers. Single pane windows in 2x4 1988 construction house with doors and windows closed. Research micro 100's from Boston acoustics and see. I am an old rock and roll boom box speaker guy and this plays much louder and clearer. Rebuilt them once but the USA parts are not available anymore. Out of business. Cast aluminum wall mount heavy little boxes. Come on by and bring a test cd. Makes the cd changer skip and it's mounted on silicone feet. Pink Floyd pulse is unbelievable on DVD through this and I saw the show in 1993 in person. Way over 115. Trust me. The Sony amps and the high efficiency old Boston acoustics stuff was a magical combo. You will ask me to turn it down finally and ask about the neighbors as everyone does. Lots of us old guys had really loud equipement for a long time but the digital clarity is a big advantage. Before this I had klipsch and a Sony str1000 that played loud enough to vibrate out window panes in the windows that had small panes mounted on a slant with a crank handle to move them to horizontal from almost vertical. Fell out into the flower garden. Vibrated out of the end brackets. Old people like me don't play it that loud very often but the pink floyd is worth it. Do not mean to brag BUT this was setup to be a stereo rock and roll system not home theatre. The big screen is just the current video in the room.

Please send me a link to the speakers specifications. I cannot find them online. just wondering what the sensitivity and power handling is. Is the micro a satellite speaker? I might be looking at the wrong speakers, but they look like satellites.

For a 90db speaker output would work like this:

1 watt = 90db
2 watts = 93db
4 watts = 96db
8 watts = 99db
16 watts = 102db
32 watts = 105db
64 watts = 108db
128 watts = 111db
256 watts = 114db
512 watts = 117db
1024 watts = 120db
2048 watts = 123db

Reaching 115-125db cleanly is not an easy thing to do. Usually you need high sensitivity speakers with high power handling. And if you are playing a speaker at 115db, you need some headroom for any sudden spikes.

Loves2Watch
05-10-2010, 04:14 AM
You cannot talk over it. Will have to get out my db meter. Small room. The same speakers as snell cls.5's X 4 plus a modified dual driven cone center channel plus the 1,000 watt pv1000 sub all Boston acoustics made in USA stuff. Add the new Sony 5300 digital amp. Interested to see but it's clairity disguises it's loudness. No distortion. Neighbors 200 feet away called the police on me years ago with a 444es Sony amp and same speakers. Single pane windows in 2x4 1988 construction house with doors and windows closed. Research micro 100's from Boston acoustics and see. I am an old rock and roll boom box speaker guy and this plays much louder and clearer. Rebuilt them once but the USA parts are not available anymore. Out of business. Cast aluminum wall mount heavy little boxes. Come on by and bring a test cd. Makes the cd changer skip and it's mounted on silicone feet. Pink Floyd pulse is unbelievable on DVD through this and I saw the show in 1993 in person. Way over 115. Trust me. The Sony amps and the high efficiency old Boston acoustics stuff was a magical combo. You will ask me to turn it down finally and ask about the neighbors as everyone does. Lots of us old guys had really loud equipement for a long time but the digital clarity is a big advantage. Before this I had klipsch and a Sony str1000 that played loud enough to vibrate out window panes in the windows that had small panes mounted on a slant with a crank handle to move them to horizontal from almost vertical. Fell out into the flower garden. Vibrated out of the end brackets. Old people like me don't play it that loud very often but the pink floyd is worth it. Do not mean to brag BUT this was setup to be a stereo rock and roll system not home theatre. The big screen is just the current video in the room.

Sony amps and receivers are poor to say the least. The digital amps just don't have the headroom or dynamics when compared with other brands. They distort easily and in many tests prove to be sorely lacking. I'm glad you like yours but there are and always have been much better receivers and amps (with higher power, dynamic headroom and much lower distortion) available at prices less than Sony.

Sony should stick to TV's where they do make a good product...

s2mikey
05-10-2010, 06:58 AM
Home Theater Magazine just did a review of a Sony Bravia with edge-lit LED technology. The set performed well in most areas except that it has uneven backlighting/black levels. Thats NO good, IMO. Actually, its a deal-killer.

I say stay CCFL - Its much cheaper and does the job.

Loves2Watch
05-10-2010, 10:21 AM
Home Theater Magazine just did a review of a Sony Bravia with edge-lit LED technology. The set performed well in most areas except that it has uneven backlighting/black levels. Thats NO good, IMO. Actually, its a deal-killer.

I say stay CCFL - Its much cheaper and does the job.

Exactly

caflashbob
05-11-2010, 07:48 PM
In a black background you can see the unevenness. Guess what unless watching a display of a dark night starfield it is unnoticeable. I am an amateur astronomer and the image quality is paramount. FANTASTIC picture. A pleasure to watch. STD settings. Right out of the box. The micro 100's Boston acoustics I think generated 95db. Not a stereo expert but you are probably right about the headroom. Needs even more for 115db Stuff. Funny my old fisher 500tx american made amp with it's matching xp9c speakers were really strong base/mid/vocal response speakers. Miss them. Oh well the Sony and the Boston acoustics play well. BTW see the video installers revue of this bravia on sonys web site customers ratings. Bob

Home Theater Magazine just did a review of a Sony Bravia with edge-lit LED technology. The set performed well in most areas except that it has uneven backlighting/black levels. Thats NO good, IMO. Actually, its a deal-killer.

I say stay CCFL - Its much cheaper and does the job.

caflashbob
05-11-2010, 10:33 PM
Actually according to home theatre reviews of the sister 5400 amp it was the best sounding amp he has tested. Maybe if you are a tube amp flat panel high dollar guy I think you are wrong. Same as the video review you mentioned which is of the xbr9 not the ten I own as only a handful were sold. The reviewers give five stars for the tv's picture and the amps sound. What do you listen to and own? If yours is better for the same money or less I would like to know. Thankfully I was not budget restricted when I bought the equipement but for $5,000 or so for the tv and amp not bad. Sorry but your comments did not match my ear or eye so I triple checked. Where did you hear or see different? Bob


Sony amps and receivers are poor to say the least. The digital amps just don't have the headroom or dynamics when compared with other brands. They distort easily and in many tests prove to be sorely lacking. I'm glad you like yours but there are and always have been much better receivers and amps (with higher power, dynamic headroom and much lower distortion) available at prices less than Sony.

Sony should stick to TV's where they do make a good product...

Loves2Watch
05-12-2010, 09:21 AM
Actually according to home theatre reviews of the sister 5400 amp it was the best sounding amp he has tested. Maybe if you are a tube amp flat panel high dollar guy I think you are wrong. Same as the video review you mentioned which is of the xbr9 not the ten I own as only a handful were sold. The reviewers give five stars for the tv's picture and the amps sound. What do you listen to and own? If yours is better for the same money or less I would like to know. Thankfully I was not budget restricted when I bought the equipement but for $5,000 or so for the tv and amp not bad. Sorry but your comments did not match my ear or eye so I triple checked. Where did you hear or see different? Bob

I see and hear the difference in my home (testing) and in the field as I have been involved with national retailers in testing, repairs and returns for many, many years. My conclusions are backed by supporting data collected from both. The equipment I use has no bearing whatsoever on reliability, repairs and returns.

caflashbob
05-13-2010, 12:00 AM
I see and hear the difference in my home (testing) and in the field as I have been involved with national retailers in testing, repairs and returns for many, many years. My conclusions are backed by supporting data collected from both. The equipment I use has no bearing whatsoever on reliability, repairs and returns.

You are the guru here I see. Are you in the repair business? I am wondering why your rating do not match the other Internet sources which are attributable to paid professionals, writing reviews. My eye and ear do not match yours which is not unusual between individuals but your comments on the xbr10 and 5300 do not match other quotable sources. Have you personally seen a kdl-52xbr10? Or used a str 5200, 5300, or 5400?

Many many years ago I worked in a retail store selling tv's and stereo equipment. One day two of my repair techs were looking at my display stuff and commenting on the different models that were on display and that they had worked on. They came across one of our top of the line models that has been out several years. Good rebranded toshiba tv. They both said they had never seen it. Cool. I bought it. If the techs did not know what it was then I wanted it.

You would not have seen my xbr10 or 5300 as they were perfect out of the box and I sm not a amateur. Cheap models no idea. Too of the line have been flawless. Although my 1997 Sony 35 inch direct view tv finally died yesterday. 14 year old junk product I guess.

I am new to this forum and am sorry if my comments upset anyone. I have read 100's of reviews on many products and this is the first time I have ever posted as my ear and eye were so far different from your generalized rating I had to say something. Versus saying Sony makes poor sounding amps and the edge lit led LCD tv do not have top quality pictures.

Wrong twice IMHO. Show me a posted review that matches your statement. Please. Bob. If this stuff is not that Good I have whatever budget it takes to get the best. Not the 6 million dollar guy but I stepped up to a 5k tv and really am pleased. What's that much better? Several times I have bought multiple expensive electronics and did my own Side by side comparisons. Some not returnable. I am ready and hope to be wrong. Cool if this is not that good and better is available. Help. Show me something better.

PFC5
05-13-2010, 12:15 AM
Here is what I could find about the xbr10.

http://www.displayblog.com/2009/09/09/sony-kdl-52xbr10-52-inch-240hz-1080p-lcd-tv/

10 Isn’t Better Than 8 Just because 10 is larger than 8 doesn’t mean that Sony’s latest XBR10 LCD TVs are better than the company’s XBR9 XBR8 series. There are two XBR10s: the 52-inch KDL-52XBR10 and the 46-inch KDL-46XBR10. And when I say better I mean picture quality. The XBR9 XBR8 series made use of a RGB LED backlight (http://www.displayblog.com/search-results/?cx=partner-pub-1028052232505250%3A8h7p9w-uqw7&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=rgb+led+backlight&sa=Search#1363), the best type of LED backlight you’d want in a LCD TV. Sony calls it Triluminos (http://www.displayblog.com/search-results/?cx=partner-pub-1028052232505250%3A8h7p9w-uqw7&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=rgb+led+backlight&sa=Search#1363) and it looks simply stunning. By using red, green and blue LEDs the XBR9 XBR8 series LCD TVs offer nicely saturated colors that are way better than most other TVs. In addition to the wide color gamut, a direct-type LED backlight allows local dimming and greatly improves contrast ratio–to levels that of the legendary KURO (http://www.displayblog.com/search-results/?cx=partner-pub-1028052232505250%3A8h7p9w-uqw7&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=kuro&sa=Search#1379) by Pioneer. LED TV It Is Not You’re thinking, “Yeah, but it’s not a LED TV.” There is no such thing as a “LED TV” (http://www.displayblog.com/2009/06/23/led-tv/) (to use at home) as Samsung would have you believe. The “LED TV” Samsung is fooling everyone with is actually a LCD TV using an edge-lit LED backlight (http://www.displayblog.com/search-results/?cx=partner-pub-1028052232505250%3A8h7p9w-uqw7&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=edge-lit+led+backlight&sa=Search#1379) (not even the best type). Unfortunately, and it is very unfortunate, Sony is going the same direction by making use of an edge-lit LED backlight for its XBR10 LCD TVs. Without even seeing the picture, I can bet serious coin that it will lose out in picture quality compared to the XBR9 series.
Slim What the XBR10 has is a very slim profile: edge-lit LED backlight technology will let you do that. To keep the slim profile all of the connections are via an external box. The XBR10 displays connect to the box wirelessly. The only cable that comes out of the thin display is a power cord. You will absolutely need to mount an XBR10 display on the wall to make use of the thinness, otherwise you’re wasting a lot of money. $5000 to be exact, for the 52-inch, and $4500 for the smaller 46-inch. Other features include a 240Hz (http://www.displayblog.com/search-results/?cx=partner-pub-1028052232505250%3A8h7p9w-uqw7&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=240hz&sa=Search#1099) frequency and the BRAVIA Engine 3. Video can be streamed from Amazon, YouTube, Netflix and Sony’s Yahoo! Widgets.
Wrong Way It isn’t surprising that Sony is going this direction. Sony invested heavily in Samsung’s LCD manufacturing capabilities that makes very large LCD TV panels. Samsung has been using edge-lit LED backlights, making fools of everyone and selling a whole bunch of “LED TVs”. Sony wants in on the action and so here it is: the not-so-great but really thin and extremely expensive XBR10.
Can you link actual PRO reviews for the xbr10 that back up what you claim then?

caflashbob
05-15-2010, 02:36 PM
You are correct they produce 110 db on a good day. 105-107 easy. Thanks for the education. Bob



Please send me a link to the speakers specifications. I cannot find them online. just wondering what the sensitivity and power handling is. Is the micro a satellite speaker? I might be looking at the wrong speakers, but they look like satellites.

For a 90db speaker output would work like this:

1 watt = 90db
2 watts = 93db
4 watts = 96db
8 watts = 99db
16 watts = 102db
32 watts = 105db
64 watts = 108db
128 watts = 111db
256 watts = 114db
512 watts = 117db
1024 watts = 120db
2048 watts = 123db

Reaching 115-125db cleanly is not an easy thing to do. Usually you need high sensitivity speakers with high power handling. And if you are playing a speaker at 115db, you need some headroom for any sudden spikes.