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Tivo wins over Dish. (This can't be good)

jquick77
03-04-2010, 02:15 PM
Here is the article. Tivo has won their case over Dish. Sounds like eventually we could be impacted.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivodish030410.htm

Rick-F
03-04-2010, 02:46 PM
Tivo wins over Dish. (This can't be good)

If you owned stock in TiVo, you might think it is a real good thing . . .

Chris Gerhard
03-04-2010, 02:52 PM
Here is the article. Tivo has won their case over Dish. Sounds like eventually we could be impacted.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivodish030410.htm

Charles Ergen has stated that Dish won't pass the tens of millions this will cost on to customers, just take a profit hit. I don't know the total but TiVo needs cash and would likely settle this for a sum that means Dish should get it over with. Dish infringed on TiVo patents, that much has been proven in court and the damages are going to be huge. This litigation has been going on for years. It would have been smarter to just license the technology from the start and be done with it. TiVo hasn't been able to earn a profit ever as far as I know but this will surely help a bunch.

Chris

Lee Stewart
03-04-2010, 04:49 PM
TiVo stands to get at least $300 million from Dish Network and EchoStar -- and potentially even more -- after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit on Thursday denied the satellite operator's request to overturn a lower court ruling finding it in contempt of an order to disable DVRs that were found to infringe a key TiVo patent.

TiVo said in a statement, "We are pleased that the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit fully affirmed the district court's finding of contempt against EchoStar, including both the disablement and infringement provisions.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/449671-Appeals_Court_Upholds_TiVo_s_300_Million_Win_Again st_Dish_EchoStar.php

What that means is if TIVO is ultimately successful - DISH will be ordered by the court to disable ALL of it's existing DVR's - some 8 million of them. They already have been ordered and have not - so they are already in contempt of the courts ruling.

Chris Gerhard
03-04-2010, 05:15 PM
http://www.multichannel.com/article/449671-Appeals_Court_Upholds_TiVo_s_300_Million_Win_Again st_Dish_EchoStar.php

What that means is if TIVO is ultimately successful - DISH will be ordered by the court to disable ALL of it's existing DVR's - some 8 million of them. They already have been ordered and have not - so they are already in contempt of the courts ruling.

Yes, pretty serious and a rather smashing TiVo legal victory which was a long time coming.

Chris

Poorboy
03-04-2010, 06:46 PM
Tivo wins over Dish. (This can't be good)

If you owned stock in TiVo, you might think it is a real good thing . . .


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SquaLLio
03-04-2010, 08:02 PM
Do we see a major Dish downfall in the near future? I wouldn't pay them if they didn't have their DVR.

jquick77
03-04-2010, 10:03 PM
I was reading on another site, and there seems to some confusion over what DVR's would be affected. Some are saying older ones, and some were saying all of them. If you read the case, it is a little hard to understand all of the legal stuff, but it sounds like whatever Dvr's are supposed to be shut off, it would happen in 30 days, if an agreement can't be reached between dish and tivo.

Chris Gerhard
03-05-2010, 05:55 AM
Do we see a major Dish downfall in the near future? I wouldn't pay them if they didn't have their DVR.

No, I would bet Dish settles and everything continues to work. Of course the rate increase that was coming anyway will be required to fund it all but Dish can raise rates and still stay below DirecTV for comparable packages.

Chris

garys
03-05-2010, 08:23 AM
You do realize that this is several months old and the entire thing was taken care of? The person who does TV predictions is not up on what is currently going on and posts like he is breaking news. All the dvr's affected have been removed from current accounts and replaced.

Loves2Watch
03-05-2010, 08:50 AM
You do realize that this is several months old and the entire thing was taken care of? The person who does TV predictions is not up on what is currently going on and posts like he is breaking news. All the dvr's affected have been removed from current accounts and replaced.

Not correct as this judgment was just handed down yesterday and affects ALL DVR's Echostar/Dish Network has ever issued.

Poorboy
03-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Why would they be searching at this time for a design-around?
Kinda hard for me to think this is really over!


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. – March 4, 2010 – DISH Network L.L.C., a subsidiary of DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), and EchoStar Technologies L.L.C., a subsidiary of EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS), issued the following statement regarding recent developments in TiVo vs. EchoStar Communications Corporation:
"We are disappointed in the Federal Circuit's split decision, but are pleased that Judge Rader agreed with our position. Therefore, we will be seeking en banc review by the full Federal Circuit. We also will be proposing a new design-around to the district court for approval. At this time, our DVR customers are not impacted."

oblioman
03-05-2010, 11:41 AM
Dish just needs to pony up. Going the en banc route is a last resort for a panel to tell Dish "What part of patent infringement don't you understand?". The esteemed Judge Judy would simply say "Get over it"!

Chris Gerhard
03-06-2010, 05:21 AM
You do realize that this is several months old and the entire thing was taken care of? The person who does TV predictions is not up on what is currently going on and posts like he is breaking news. All the dvr's affected have been removed from current accounts and replaced.

Dish hasn't settled the suit yet and this appellate court ruling was issued last Thursday. There are several hundred million dollars of contempt sanctions and damages to be paid or settled in some manner. You believe Dish Network has replaced 8 million DVR's?

Chris

spaulding
03-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Up until Feb 2010, DVR service was free if you had the everything package. Wonder if the court battle had something to do with that.

polo708
03-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Whats the difference between Dish Networks DVRs and others like DirectTV, Comcast, etc's? What makes it just Dish's DVRs that are effected?

Poorboy
03-12-2010, 06:48 PM
Whats the difference between Dish Networks DVRs and others like DirectTV, Comcast, etc's? What makes it just Dish's DVRs that are effected?

It probably helps to have an agreement with the owner of a patent.

Chris Gerhard
03-12-2010, 06:52 PM
Whats the difference between Dish Networks DVRs and others like DirectTV, Comcast, etc's? What makes it just Dish's DVRs that are effected?


DirecTV started using TiVo DVR's in 2000. DirecTV and its customers have paid TiVo many tens of millions for rights and DirecTV will soon be offering another TiVo HD DVR with properly acquired rights for its customers to use. The non TiVo DirecTV DVR's either use licensed TiVo technology or don't infringe. The cable DVR's don't infringe at least not to the best of TiVo's knowledge and most cable services work with TiVo DVR's. Dish is the only company as far as a I know that tried to buck the system and avoid paying necessary licensing fees despite using patented technology. Ultimately, it isn't likely going to be a good decision as the company could have licensed the technology just like DirecTV did and probably saved hundreds of millions.

Chris

Pamajestic
03-13-2010, 01:41 AM
DirecTV started using TiVo DVR's in 2000. DirecTV and its customers have paid TiVo many tens of millions for rights and DirecTV will soon be offering another TiVo HD DVR with properly acquired rights for its customers to use. The non TiVo DirecTV DVR's either use licensed TiVo technology or don't infringe. The cable DVR's don't infringe at least not to the best of TiVo's knowledge and most cable services work with TiVo DVR's. Dish is the only company as far as a I know that tried to buck the system and avoid paying necessary licensing fees despite using patented technology. Ultimately, it isn't likely going to be a good decision as the company could have licensed the technology just like DirecTV did and probably saved hundreds of millions.

Chris

What about Tivo Vs. AT&T or Tivo Vs. Verizon or Microsoft Vs. Tivo?

Chris Gerhard
03-14-2010, 11:31 AM
What about Tivo Vs. AT&T or Tivo Vs. Verizon or Microsoft Vs. Tivo?

I can only assume the DVR's used either don't infringe or have properly licensed TiVo technology since I haven't seen a suit and it is apparent TiVo can initiate a suit and win rather convincingly when it can be shown a company's products infringe on their patents. The Dish litigation has been rather brutal for Dish.

Chris

DISH Network
03-28-2010, 11:32 AM
TiVo is particularly upset about the "Time Warping" abilities of the DISH DVR. For instance, the fact that the DISH DVR records what you're watching in a buffer that allows you to rewind and pause live TV.

I do not predict DISH will be required to remove ANY equipment from current accounts as the functionality of the DVR can be changed remotely with software patches.

Recording something onto a hard-drive is hardly proprietary, and even more ludicrously owned by TiVo. Manipulating that recorded content with features like RW, FF, pause, and play, is also beyond the limitations of patent law.

What we're all seeing here is TiVo fighting DISH over very small technical details because they could not come to an agreement and are likely receiving pressure from Directv to help give them the edge over a fierce and superior competitor.

It is apparent to anyone watching TV that Directv is scrambling to compete with DISH, so they've resorted to smear tactics. Additionally, anyone who has ever dealt directly with Directv knows just how "sue-happy" they really are. It's insane. So, the fact that TiVo and Directv are in bed, and that TiVo has been suing DISH for years over this does not surprise me AT ALL.

DISH will find a work-around, and everyone will get to keep their DVRs. That's my prediction. An especially embarrassing hit will be when Directv loses their current lawsuit against DISH saying that their advertising claiming lower prices is somehow 'misleading' and slanderous to Directv (while Directv is currently running an ad that calls DISH a liar in direct terms).

Nevada_MO_Guy
03-29-2010, 07:14 PM
TiVo Rallies On DISH Bid Rumor (http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2010/03/24/tivo-rallies-on-dish-bid-rumor/)

TiVo (TIVO) shares are rallying this morning, apparently on rumors that DISH Network (DISH) might attempt to solve its litigation troubles with the DVR company by simply buying it.