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Can't decide: Sharp vs Sony vs Panny

Rook
01-19-2010, 01:44 PM
Howdy,

Nice forum with a load of information. I've been trolling a bit in my search for the best bang for the buck in a new T.V.

My budget is roughly $1000 for T.V. and BlueRay. I have three options that I found all roughly $1000.


Sharp Aquos LC46BD80U, 46 inch LCD 120 hz with 1.1 Blue Ray built in .

Sony Bravia Eco KDL-46VE5 46 inch LCD 120 hz, with a free Sony 2.0 Blue Ray

Panasonic Viera TC-50PS14, 50 inch Plasma for $800-$850 (leaving room for a good Blue Ray)


We have a 32 inch JVC LCD in our room that is now four years old. The room has a large east side window with sheers, we get some light but not dramatic, most of our T.V. time is at night anyway, though we obviously have regular lamps in the room at night.

My main concern is picture quality. Our JVC is good, but I can see lines between shades of dark colors, and it drives me crazy. I am concerned about glare from the plasma, but I'm not sure how much of an issue that is or not at night with a lamp on. My other concern is clearly reliability. I'm not sure I'll use the online features of the 2.0 Blue Ray versus the 1.1 to make a difference (unless there is a playback quality difference.)

I'm perplexed and can't make a decision. I know these prices are pretty good and I'm iching bad for a bigger T.V. for my large living room.

Any suggestions that will help me decide?

PFC5
01-19-2010, 02:10 PM
Welcome to the forum! :hithere:

You should really fill out that sticky with the questions that need to be answered as you left out your viewing distance and a couple of other questions also. ;)

Then we also have all the questions answered and can give the best help. ;)

Here it is:

http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/83609-important-post-new-members-read-who-looking-hdtv-help-here.html

Rook
01-19-2010, 02:32 PM
Viewing distance: 10-12 feet (straight on) most of the time, sometimes 7-8 feet at 45 %

Replacing a 32 inch JVC LCD.

Watching roughly 1/3 prime time t.v. / 1/3 movies / 1/3 college sports (plus some SD content and cartoons :D)

No CPU use

Blue ray for sure, and need upscalling from DVD

Want best bang for the buck, inside $1000 budget for t.v. and BR

Room lighting is above, east side window, not a lot of sun light, most t.v. is viewed after dark with a couple of table lamps on.

I think the two posts covers everything.

Thanks for the help.

1happyguy
01-19-2010, 02:42 PM
Panny is a great tv!! Check out the Toshiba Regzas they have they have great black levels and good off viewing angles in 2009 for the LCD tvs and the cost is great for the tv. The Panny is a great choice for plasma. Sony is overpriced and Sharps aren't great. With plasmas you don't have any viewing angle problems.

Rook
01-19-2010, 03:20 PM
Panny is a great tv!! Check out the Toshiba Regzas they have they have great black levels and good off viewing angles in 2009 for the LCD tvs and the cost is great for the tv. The Panny is a great choice for plasma. Sony is overpriced and Sharps aren't great. With plasmas you don't have any viewing angle problems.

I think I can get a Toshiba 46XV640U 120 hz LCD for roughly the same price range. I thought the reveiws on it were not as good as the Sharp or Sony.

You think Sony is overprice, even at the price above?


A general question regarding Plasma glare. How much light in a room will cause a problem? Being that the main view will be at night with lamps on in the room. Will we see reflections of these lamps?

PFC5
01-19-2010, 03:33 PM
The picture will not look very good from a 45 degree angle with any LCD, but I agree that it is a little better with the Toshiba LCDs for the 2009 model year. The blacks will not be as good either as plasma is king for black levels AND still having excellent shadow detail.

At 10-12' you really should have a 58" display to actually SEE the 1080p resolution, but that would go over your budget quite a bit. I would say that 50" should be the max as I have a 50" plasma and I wish I had at least a 54" screen and that is from 8' away. ;)

Have you considered waiting a little longer and saving a little more?

Rook
01-19-2010, 03:43 PM
We have a T.V. Cabinet that has a defined space of 34inch high by 52 inch wide, including stand. 50 is the biggest I can get. Also, I can afford more but I cannot justify more versus our use and need for other items (like a better coach and chairs to view from ;))

Also, 45% may be a bit over what it is. The view from the JVC LCD is not that bad, though you can tell a difference.


Thoughts about Glare? That is all that is really holding me back on the plasma.

Rook
01-19-2010, 03:46 PM
Are the 720 Panasonic Plasmas any good? They are dirt cheap. If they only difference was 720 versus 1080 I'd save the $200.

SantaPimp27
01-19-2010, 04:18 PM
We have a T.V. Cabinet that has a defined space of 34inch high by 52 inch wide, including stand. 50 is the biggest I can get. Also, I can afford more but I cannot justify more versus our use and need for other items (like a better coach and chairs to view from ;))

Also, 45% may be a bit over what it is. The view from the JVC LCD is not that bad, though you can tell a difference.


Thoughts about Glare? That is all that is really holding me back on the plasma.

go on craigslist and if you wait a little, you can pick up nice couches and chair for free. people give them away when they move. lol

as for glare, some people are bothered by it, and some are not. you shouldnt have a problem with a lamp on during the night.

i have in ceiling lights about 4-5 feet away from my plasma which hangs on the wall. i have no complaints about glare and do not even notice it.

i would go with a min of 50", so i would recommend the panny. then you could pick up a blu ray player.

as for 720p vs 1080p, from 10-12 feet, you probably will not be able to tell the difference so its always an option

Rook
01-19-2010, 04:20 PM
Okay, I have just figured out the Plasma TC-50PS14 I'm looking at at Sams Club is not the same as the TC-50PS1 I'm reading reviews about. The S14 does not have the Neo screen. While I cannot find a review of the S14 this leads me to believe that the 50X1 and the 50PS14 would be similar in picture quality. Reading the reviews (understanding everyone has opinions) the X1 does not rate anywhere near as high as the S1 in picture quality. But, for the price I want to pay I'm not sure if I can get the 50PS1.

What a bogus trick to make budget models hidden at Sams Club.

SantaPimp27
01-19-2010, 04:27 PM
yes the S1 has the new neo pdp plasma and is a great display. the s14 will still be a very nice display, just not as sharp as the S1.

wait till the superbowl and the S1 could be seen under the $1000

Rook
01-19-2010, 04:40 PM
According to Panasonics Website, the difference are:


Screen

X1 and S14 have the same G12 screen. S1 has the G12 Neo PDP

Resolution

X1 has 720. S14 has 900 and S1 has 1080.

Shades of Gradation

X1 and S14 have 5120. S1 has 6144

Aspect control

S14 has a few extra Aspect options

Anti-Reflective Screen

All have the same A/R coating

Audio

Same for all three

Inputs

S1 has an SD Card slot (what is this for anyway), others do not.
S14 has a PC input, others do not.

Convenience

S14 does not have a game mode, other do.

X1 uses a bit less power.

All else looks similar.


So, now reviewing this the S14 does not seem worth paying more for versus the X1; whereas teh S1 would be worth a bit extra. Note, I will not use the PC input and I will use it for video games.

Does this seem accurate for those of you who under stand this stuff?

SantaPimp27
01-19-2010, 04:47 PM
the S1 is the best because of the neoPDP, which allows it to have more shades of gradation(which is very important for PQ)

the S14 has 900 lines of moving resolution compared to the S1's 1080.

game mode is not important and you will probably not even need it.

i think the s14 is a little better than the X1, but not as good as the S1.

PFC will know for sure

s2mikey
01-19-2010, 04:49 PM
Are the 720 Panasonic Plasmas any good? They are dirt cheap. If they only difference was 720 versus 1080 I'd save the $200.

Sure. Resolution is only part of the formula for picture quality. My 768p KURO is a gem. *Somehow* I get by with just 768p. ;)

Black levels, real contrast, color accuracy & motion performance end up playing a huge roll in overall PQ. Ive seen plenty of 1080p sets that induced vomiting. Ive seen plenty of 720/768 sets that are sweet.

Take a look for yourself, but dont rule out a good quality 720p set! Thats my opinion on it.

HiDefRev
01-19-2010, 04:56 PM
I would definitely go with the Panasonic S1. You get one of the best displays from a company with a great record of reliability, coupled with superior customer service. You won't be disappointed with it !! :thumbsup:

Rook
01-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Well, I can get an X1 for $700 from Best Buy; the S14 for $850 from Sams; and I think with some sales I may find the S1 for $1000. Is there really $300 difference in the picture quality between the X1 and the S1?

Also, I've not really given up on the Sharp or Sony above. Given that I can get a BD with each for $1000, that puts them at around $800 for the T.V. Also they are 46 inch versus 50 and LCD versus Plasma.

SantaPimp27
01-19-2010, 07:11 PM
50" is already on the small side for your viewing distance, so 46" is just too small.

the S1 is worth the extra over the x1, however, your on a budget and if you want to save some money, then the X1 is still a fine tv

Rook
01-19-2010, 10:22 PM
Well a few corrections. Having thought about this all day and after you recent comment, I decide to measure for more accurate facts. The T.V. screen is 14 Feet from where my eyes sit for most of our viewing (75%) straight on and 8 feet from the closest viewing at roughly a 40-35 degree angle.

In viewing our JVC 32 inch (yes we have lived with a 32 inch at 14 feet for two years) our JVC does several things very well. Side viewing is great. I see virtually no difference in the picture quality at greater than 60 degrees. There is absolutely no glare or reflection. The picture quality is generally very good and very consistent across the screen, with the noted exceptions being that dark content is hard to see detail and annoying and dark content shows lines between the color grades.

Based on this, I'm hesitant to get a lesser quality t.v. since I think this JVC has been very good to us. I don't want to be disappointed. Also, 50 inch is definitely our max size (wife does not want the T.V. to be too obtrusive).

Back to my previous glare question for plasmas. Thinking more, my concern is not glare, ie. ambient light that effects the color and contrast. My concern is reflection. I don't want to see a reflection of my wall sconces or table lamps in the t.v. That would make me unhappy if I'm watching t.v. and I can't see through a reflection. I can deal with a slight bit of wash out in exchange for great black levels.

Thanks again for the help on this. I know it gets repetitive on these forums answering newbie questions.

sincraft
01-19-2010, 11:19 PM
I worked on these tvs as a side gig for extra $. Don't know much about them, didnt even own one. Had no real interest until they expanded the HD channels etc locally.

I finally picked up a panny plasma and have noticed some green tinting over many things esp the lower def or upconverted hd from the local programmers or wherever. I noticed this also in the store so don't think it's just my tv although for awhile I worried.

I repaired alot of LG. They had many batches that had one or two things that constantly went wrong with them.
A friend of mine has an lcd from them and I don't think many problems though.

I will tell you that out of the tv's I worked on, the ones with built in ...whatever....had issues. And when one thing breaks, it's the whole unit. 2x the possibility of that unit not working 100% if you catch my drift.

I believe you mentioned a combo unit. I fear this greatly.

If it were me, I would look at the reviews for the units you are thinking of and pick one that is not newly out on the market. Look for people complaining about repairs and pick the one that has the least complaints and looks the best (if one of those fits into that category that is)

GL!

Rook
01-19-2010, 11:36 PM
I thought the same for the Sharp combo unit. but the reviews are good on it. The reviews on the Sony suggest some inconsistent picture quality in the frame.

SantaPimp27
01-20-2010, 12:40 AM
Well a few corrections. Having thought about this all day and after you recent comment, I decide to measure for more accurate facts. The T.V. screen is 14 Feet from where my eyes sit for most of our viewing (75%) straight on and 8 feet from the closest viewing at roughly a 40-35 degree angle.

In viewing our JVC 32 inch (yes we have lived with a 32 inch at 14 feet for two years) our JVC does several things very well. Side viewing is great. I see virtually no difference in the picture quality at greater than 60 degrees. There is absolutely no glare or reflection. The picture quality is generally very good and very consistent across the screen, with the noted exceptions being that dark content is hard to see detail and annoying and dark content shows lines between the color grades.

Based on this, I'm hesitant to get a lesser quality t.v. since I think this JVC has been very good to us. I don't want to be disappointed. Also, 50 inch is definitely our max size (wife does not want the T.V. to be too obtrusive).

Back to my previous glare question for plasmas. Thinking more, my concern is not glare, ie. ambient light that effects the color and contrast. My concern is reflection. I don't want to see a reflection of my wall sconces or table lamps in the t.v. That would make me unhappy if I'm watching t.v. and I can't see through a reflection. I can deal with a slight bit of wash out in exchange for great black levels.

Thanks again for the help on this. I know it gets repetitive on these forums answering newbie questions.

the glare on the plasma will not be any worse than the glare on your crt and will probably be less so. however, take into account the extra size of the screen. if you are fine with the glare on the crt i dont think the plasma will be a problem.

i feel that lcd pq is a step down from a crt and could leave you disappointed. also, if you are concerned about viewing angles, do not get an lcd as they have terrible viewing angles. plasma viewing angles will be as good as your crt. also black levels and shadow detail will be better on the plasma.

i stand by my recommendation of the 50" s1. i would not go any smaller, especially from 14'

Rook
01-20-2010, 08:29 AM
I'll have to move a CRT into the room to see the glare. We have a very old 19" CRT in the bedroom (that will be replaced with the 32" JVC once we get the new t.v.) Thanks for the suggestion.

Now to find a good deal on an S1. I'm still looking strongly at the S14, if I can get it for under $800 shipped I may well take the less PQ for the savings.

PFC5
01-20-2010, 04:46 PM
Well a few corrections. Having thought about this all day and after you recent comment, I decide to measure for more accurate facts. The T.V. screen is 14 Feet from where my eyes sit for most of our viewing (75%) straight on and 8 feet from the closest viewing at roughly a 40-35 degree angle.

In viewing our JVC 32 inch (yes we have lived with a 32 inch at 14 feet for two years) our JVC does several things very well. Side viewing is great. I see virtually no difference in the picture quality at greater than 60 degrees. There is absolutely no glare or reflection. The picture quality is generally very good and very consistent across the screen, with the noted exceptions being that dark content is hard to see detail and annoying and dark content shows lines between the color grades.

Based on this, I'm hesitant to get a lesser quality t.v. since I think this JVC has been very good to us. I don't want to be disappointed. Also, 50 inch is definitely our max size (wife does not want the T.V. to be too obtrusive).

Back to my previous glare question for plasmas. Thinking more, my concern is not glare, ie. ambient light that effects the color and contrast. My concern is reflection. I don't want to see a reflection of my wall sconces or table lamps in the t.v. That would make me unhappy if I'm watching t.v. and I can't see through a reflection. I can deal with a slight bit of wash out in exchange for great black levels.

Thanks again for the help on this. I know it gets repetitive on these forums answering newbie questions.

From that distance and your budget I think the P50X1 is likely your best choice. It is only 720p but at your 14' viewing distance the human eye cannot distinguish any difference between 720p & 1080p for a 50" screen size from that far away. That is why we said you should go much bigger for that viewing distance.

FYI:

1. The S14 IS a 1080p display but the MOVING lines of resolution is only 900 lines not the 1080 lines that the S1 offers. From your seating difference you would never see this. See above. ;)

2. The gradation difference is important because on gradually shading shades of color or black & white you will see less banding with a display that has higher numbers.

3. Contrast (and thereby have black a display can get) is likely the most important spec to look at but the contrast numbers are BS and real life viewing in the proper lighting is the only way to know which is better. Remember CR is the measurement of the brightest a display can be compared to the darkest the display can show.

4. LCDs get higher contrast numbers from being able to get so bright, but in home lighting you have to turn the brightness way down from the max or risk hurting your eyes. This makes their contrast ratios unrealistic for actual viewing in a home.

5. Plasmas get their higher TRUE usable contrast from having much darker black levels and brightness levels that are still usable in home lighting. They are still brighter than any CRT is, but even they must be turned down some unless it is a VERY bright room. I have my contrast (white level setting) at only 58%.

6. In a store the PQ cannot be judged comparing plasmas & LCDs because the ultra bright stores are the perfect environment for LCDs strengths and hide LCD weaknesses. LCD was designed for bright offices to be used as monitors. This is the opposite for plasmas which will not look as good compared to LCDs in those ultra bright stores, but look much better in typical home lighting.

7. I own 2 LCDs, 1 DLP & 1 plasma and the difference in PQ in my HOME lighting puts my Panasonic plasma well ahead of my 47" 1080p LCD. Not one person of over 40+ people have thought the LCD looked as good in my HOME lighting.

Hope this helps!

Rook
01-21-2010, 08:13 AM
Thanks for the help everyone. I have been trying to get a 50S14 for roughly the same price as the X1 online, so far no luck but I've not given up. I realize the S14 has only 900 lines, but that is better than the 720 lines of the X1 though as you put it I may not see the difference.) Some review has stated that the X1 is not as cabable as upscalling SD pictures as the S1 (and I therefore assume the the S14 as well).

My only issue, as discussed in detail in a seperate thread, is light reflection. I did the CRT test with a 19 inch old style CRT and was unimpressed with the reflection. We are going to look around in person at some displays this weekend. The two issues are, would I prefer to live with the reflection problem of the Plasma, or the side viewing problem of the LCD.

Price and ability to get a great deal may end up deciding for me, I'm a sucker for a great deal (almost got the 46 inch Sharp/BD combo for $650, but I was too late.)

PFC5
01-21-2010, 02:06 PM
I am a sucker for a great deal myself, but with the improved PQ of a plasma AND the lower price in general for the same screen size I think the best deal is getting the best PQ for the lowest price. :D ;)

Rook
01-21-2010, 04:43 PM
PFC5, how would you rate the differences in PQ between the X1, S14 and the S1? If the price is $700, $850, $950 respectfully and at 14 foot viewing distance.

Also, how much difference is there really between a 46 inch t.v. versus a 50". Looking at comparisons online and in stores, it does not appear to be much difference. I.E. is it better to get a 46" S1 versus a 50" X1?????

PFC5
01-21-2010, 04:58 PM
At YOUR viewing difference of 14' I would get the P50X1 as you will not see the resolution difference and the 50" size would still be smaller than you should get but is better than the 46" size. Just do not get the P50C1 which is the cheaper (no anti-glare) version of the X1 series.

Rook
01-21-2010, 05:06 PM
GRRRR.

I accidentally bid on a G14 at Samsclub Auction (they snuck in a G14 between the S14's and I did not notice.) Trying to get Sams to pull the bid or hope some out bids me.

Rook
01-21-2010, 05:42 PM
Whew, someone out bid me. Note to self, PAY ATTENTION WHILST BIDDING....