Spliting HD signal off primary box?

JPL · 06-10-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITALIAN926

JM, where I work in NY, HD boxes have been the same price as SD for over a year now.

Correct - in NY and parts of NJ the price for the HD box is the same as it is for the SD box. It was done that way as part of a drive to grab customers in the NYC market. Which is why their service pricing structure in those markets is different too (e.g. Extreme HD in those markets is cheaper, but doesn't include the old sports pack channels - if you want those in NY, you have to subscribe to the sports pack, which no longer exists anywhere else).

One minor correction on the pricing of the boxes:

- HD Home Media DVR = $20/month
- HD Standalone DVR = $16/month
- HD STB = $10/month ($6 in NY and parts of NJ)
- SD STB = $6/month

I don't know if they still even offer the digital adapter - I can't find it on their site. They won't be able to offer it after July 1st anyway. Ditto the SD STB that they currently do. At that point the separable security waiver for SD boxes will have expired, which means that all of Verizon's STBs have to accept cable cards after that point (the HD boxes have had that requirement since last July). Which means - they won't be able to offer the DCT700 anymore (the digital adapter) and they'll have to offer a new version of the QIP2500 (SD box) - which is why, from what I gather, the price of the SD box is going up to $8/month. Not sure when that price increase is effective, but Verizon announced it some time ago.

Finally, Verizon tends to grandfather in the cost of their equipment - e.g. my brother is still paying only $13/month for the HD DVR despite the fact that the price went up to $16 quite a while ago. And I'm still paying $5/month for the SD STB, despite the fact that it's now $6. So when Verizon ups its equipment prices, it won't effect customers who already have those devices - at least that will be true if they keep to their normal MO and grandfather you in. If you're going for an SD box, I highly recommend getting it now before those prices go up.

dfeller · 06-10-2009, 11:36 AM

When you say "Coax" I assume you mean running a coax from the "RF-out" (Channel 3 or 4) from the main box up to the tv in the second bedroom?
I havn't seen him say that is "do-able" to get from one room to the next. I thought he was saying he ordered a second fios box... assuming there is already coax running to the fios receiver/home run, the new box should auto associate and work without new cabling.

But perhaps I misunderstand.

dfeller · 06-10-2009, 11:38 AM

General question (semi-related):
Someone mentioned that Comcast and others are beginning to get rid of non-local analog channels. I'd be very insterested in everyone's experience - whether that has begun in your area, where the analog stops now etc.

(Long story, but I run a video distribution company - BOCS - that relies on coax for transport and changes like that could cause me troubles)

David-F

jmcohen23 · 06-10-2009, 12:22 PM

Perhaps I should have clarified that the prices I quoted are in Maryland (pronounced "merlin" if you're a local), and in USD.

but my point is that verizon offers (offered) several different boxes, each with different capabilities and prices. it is up to the customer to inquire the cost for each.

but thanks for pointing out the upcoming changes JPL, that will be helpful to know later on down the line.

JPL · 06-10-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfeller

When you say "Coax" I assume you mean running a coax from the "RF-out" (Channel 3 or 4) from the main box up to the tv in the second bedroom?
I havn't seen him say that is "do-able" to get from one room to the next. I thought he was saying he ordered a second fios box... assuming there is already coax running to the fios receiver/home run, the new box should auto associate and work without new cabling.

But perhaps I misunderstand.

I think he meant to say that you want to have a set top box in the second bedroom, but running coax from that set top box to the TV, instead of running S-video from that set top box to the TV.

JPL · 06-10-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfeller

General question (semi-related):
Someone mentioned that Comcast and others are beginning to get rid of non-local analog channels. I'd be very insterested in everyone's experience - whether that has begun in your area, where the analog stops now etc.

(Long story, but I run a video distribution company - BOCS - that relies on coax for transport and changes like that could cause me troubles)

David-F

Yeah, it's starting to happen in this area. To date Comcast has been doing it in onsies and twosies - moving channels from analog to digital. Other systems in this area (RCN) are, from what I can tell, already there (all non-local channels are digital). Comcast has announced their plans to go all digital for non-local channels everywhere. I thought their plan was not realistic - they initially announced that they would convert 20% of their markets by end of 2008 (which I don't think happened) with the rest by the end of 2010. I saw how much work it was for Verizon to go down this path - they eliminated all analogs, period. They started that work last March and finished it in October. And their footprint was much smaller than Comcast's, their newer markets were already all digital, and they simulcast their locals in both analog and digital - meaning that they didn't need to 'convert' the analog channels... they just had to shut them off. But even with that, they still took 6 months to do the work.

Anyway, yeah, there are Comcast customers that I work with who griped about 'losing' channels like Cartoon Network (one of the channels they moved from analog to digital).

Also, the cable companies were asked to hold off on doing any more analog-digital channel conversions until AFTER the OTA analog shut-off. The reason for that is because cable companies were killing analog channels and blaming it on the OTA shut-off (claiming that they were doing it because of the OTA shut-off). The FCC was fielding complaints about that, and asked the cable companies to cease and desist until after the OTA shut-off was complete. Which is why Comcast hasn't done any of those conversions in a few months. After this Friday, though, I fully expect this conversion of analog to digital channels to plow ahead at a pretty quick pace.

GymBrat98 · 06-10-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPL

I think he meant to say that you want to have a set top box in the second bedroom, but running coax from that set top box to the TV, instead of running S-video from that set top box to the TV.

Can this be done if the second tv is non hd but your box is hd?

JPL · 06-10-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GymBrat98

Can this be done if the second tv is non hd but your box is hd?

Sure can. With the HD box the RF (coax), composite (RCA) and S-Video outputs are downrezzed to 480i (SD). As long as the box he gets has an RF output he can do that (the QIP6416 DVR doesn't have an RF output, e.g., but the newer 7216 does). I know several people hooked up this way.

GymBrat98 · 06-11-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPL

Sure can. With the HD box the RF (coax), composite (RCA) and S-Video outputs are downrezzed to 480i (SD). As long as the box he gets has an RF output he can do that (the QIP6416 DVR doesn't have an RF output, e.g., but the newer 7216 does). I know several people hooked up this way.

He is me JPL. I have not had my 35" JVC on since I got Fios, the tech told me I would need a box, I didn't believe him. I bought a splitter from the same company they get theirs from, and no picture. I have the JVC hooked up to a pair of vintage Marantz 250 watt speakers, what's kewl is they don't need an amp/receiver. I miss doing cardio on my elliptical machine when the weather was bad.

Anyhew, needless to say you rawk!!!! I tried the RF/75 ohms input. Not only did I get a fantastic picture, but I get all my movie channels too. I'm not sure why I thought It would only get basic Fios. You're a great asset to this forum. They should call the RF cable old school HDMI, lol since it does audio too. The picture was so bad with Comsuck, that I was thinking about selling the TV, not anymore!

Thank You So Much JPL

JPL · 06-11-2009, 06:19 AM

I appreciate the kind words. No problem at all. BTW, if the set top box is in another room, you may want to consider getting a RF remote for TV you just hooked up. There are different configurations for this - some use a repeater - you have one unit on the TV with the STB and one on the TV you just hooked up. You use your remote, the repeater on the TV you just hooked up sends a signal, wirelessly, to the other unit, whch controls all the stuff hooked to that TV.

Other units are true RF remotes, where you have, I believe, a single unit, on your main TV. This setup would come with its own remote, which operates via RF instead of infrared. The RF signal can travel a decent distance in your home - through walls/floors, and would get picked up by the unit on your main TV.

If you're interested in something like that, check out some websites like firefold or monoprice for units. I've seen some on there relatively cheap. I've also seen units at Radio Shack, which look pretty decent, but are pricier.

Bob Walters · 06-11-2009, 09:38 AM

ITALIAN 926,
You just solved one of my problems during calibration. Believe it or not, some displays/sources look "better" with component vs HDMI. Now that you told me both are active, I can A/B with either output.....just switch inputs on the display and "let the client decide"!!!!! Thanks.

GymBrat98 · 06-11-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPL

I appreciate the kind words. No problem at all. BTW, if the set top box is in another room, you may want to consider getting a RF remote for TV you just hooked up. There are different configurations for this - some use a repeater - you have one unit on the TV with the STB and one on the TV you just hooked up. You use your remote, the repeater on the TV you just hooked up sends a signal, wirelessly, to the other unit, whch controls all the stuff hooked to that TV.

Other units are true RF remotes, where you have, I believe, a single unit, on your main TV. This setup would come with its own remote, which operates via RF instead of infrared. The RF signal can travel a decent distance in your home - through walls/floors, and would get picked up by the unit on your main TV.

If you're interested in something like that, check out some websites like firefold or monoprice for units. I've seen some on there relatively cheap. I've also seen units at Radio Shack, which look pretty decent, but are pricier.

Currently I have a Harmony remote, and the bedroom tv remote is programmed into it. Woah, are you serious? Not only can I watch tv in my bedroom, but change the stations too? Can I program the rf remote into my Harmony?

My Harmony changes the stations right inside my bedroom door, you're saying the repeater will kick in where my Harmony is lacking?

Your friends that have this set-up, can you find out what repeater/remote they bought please?

Thank You JPL

Scottnot · 06-11-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Walters

Believe it or not, some displays/sources look "better" with component vs HDMI.

There is no technical reason why that should be the case.
Both component and HDMI are fully capable and should provide the same quality signal and, hence, picture quality.

Now, if the television's inputs have not been properly calibrated, then certainly one may look "better" than the other.
But, if both inputs have been properly calibrated, the picture quality from either component or HDMI should be identical.

ITALIAN926 · 06-11-2009, 06:54 PM

Watch out Bob, you calibrate for a living and Scotty here is about to take you to school.

Scotty boy, Id bet less than 1% of the population gets their HD sets calibrated. In most cases, HDMI looks better than component, once in a while, the component looks better. Again, I speak from my experience of hooking up hundreds of HD sets on FiOS. Again, youll think this is null and void.

The technical reason is.. THEY ARENT CALIBRATED PROPERLY FROM THE FACTORY.

Bob Walters · 06-12-2009, 05:57 AM

Scottnot,
"Technically", you're absolutely correct but the old saying re "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies with different displays & sources iin different environments at different times of the day with different lighting arrangements etc., etc. In a perfect world, HDMI beats component....no question!! but there are TOO many variables and, in fact, I have calibrated [with about 10k worth of equipment as back-up]a number of displays that to my "subjective" eye[and with the agreement of the client] component looks "better" than HDMI. Personally, I'm one of those guys who likes "rules" cast in stone[HDMI] but sometimes that stone gets broken!!!! Just my 2 cents..........with a lot of years of experience. Knowing that both HDMI & component are active on the Motorola STBs [I will do some research on the Scientific Atlanta boxes]lets me let the client be part of the calibration exercise. If you have the time, try it.....I think you'll be surprised how close they look................and then there's the HDCP handshake problem that crops up periodically!! AFAIK, cablevision & Verizon still use "the old 5 wire' system for HD hook-up......but ITALIAN926 knows better than I. It seems most houses I go to need to be educated re HDMI and cables. C'est la vie!!!!!!

06-10-2009, 11:36 AM	#17
dfeller Whole-Home DVR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 2	Coax When you say "Coax" I assume you mean running a coax from the "RF-out" (Channel 3 or 4) from the main box up to the tv in the second bedroom? I havn't seen him say that is "do-able" to get from one room to the next. I thought he was saying he ordered a second fios box... assuming there is already coax running to the fios receiver/home run, the new box should auto associate and work without new cabling. But perhaps I misunderstand.

06-10-2009, 11:38 AM	#18
dfeller Whole-Home DVR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 2	Getting rid of analog General question (semi-related): Someone mentioned that Comcast and others are beginning to get rid of non-local analog channels. I'd be very insterested in everyone's experience - whether that has begun in your area, where the analog stops now etc. (Long story, but I run a video distribution company - BOCS - that relies on coax for transport and changes like that could cause me troubles) David-F

06-10-2009, 12:22 PM	#19
jmcohen23 He who hesitates is lost Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 313	Perhaps I should have clarified that the prices I quoted are in Maryland (pronounced "merlin" if you're a local), and in USD. but my point is that verizon offers (offered) several different boxes, each with different capabilities and prices. it is up to the customer to inquire the cost for each. but thanks for pointing out the upcoming changes JPL, that will be helpful to know later on down the line. __________________ "A nickle just ain't worth a dime anymore." -- Yogi Berra

06-11-2009, 06:54 PM	#29
ITALIAN926 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 589	Watch out Bob, you calibrate for a living and Scotty here is about to take you to school. Scotty boy, Id bet less than 1% of the population gets their HD sets calibrated. In most cases, HDMI looks better than component, once in a while, the component looks better. Again, I speak from my experience of hooking up hundreds of HD sets on FiOS. Again, youll think this is null and void. The technical reason is.. THEY ARENT CALIBRATED PROPERLY FROM THE FACTORY. __________________ Proud owner of a 60" plasma and ~1500 DVD's Pio PDP-6010FD , Panny TH-42PX77U, Toshiba HD DVD Player (HD-A20) Xbox 360 Verizon FiOS technician My Family Room Pic #1 My Family Room Pic #2

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06-11-2009, 06:19 AM	#25
JPL High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: West Chester, PA Posts: 1,427	I appreciate the kind words. No problem at all. BTW, if the set top box is in another room, you may want to consider getting a RF remote for TV you just hooked up. There are different configurations for this - some use a repeater - you have one unit on the TV with the STB and one on the TV you just hooked up. You use your remote, the repeater on the TV you just hooked up sends a signal, wirelessly, to the other unit, whch controls all the stuff hooked to that TV. Other units are true RF remotes, where you have, I believe, a single unit, on your main TV. This setup would come with its own remote, which operates via RF instead of infrared. The RF signal can travel a decent distance in your home - through walls/floors, and would get picked up by the unit on your main TV. If you're interested in something like that, check out some websites like firefold or monoprice for units. I've seen some on there relatively cheap. I've also seen units at Radio Shack, which look pretty decent, but are pricier.

06-11-2009, 09:38 AM	#26
Bob Walters High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bronxville, NY Posts: 173	ITALIAN 926, You just solved one of my problems during calibration. Believe it or not, some displays/sources look "better" with component vs HDMI. Now that you told me both are active, I can A/B with either output.....just switch inputs on the display and "let the client decide"!!!!! Thanks.

06-12-2009, 05:57 AM	#30
Bob Walters High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bronxville, NY Posts: 173	Scottnot, "Technically", you're absolutely correct but the old saying re "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies with different displays & sources iin different environments at different times of the day with different lighting arrangements etc., etc. In a perfect world, HDMI beats component....no question!! but there are TOO many variables and, in fact, I have calibrated [with about 10k worth of equipment as back-up]a number of displays that to my "subjective" eye[and with the agreement of the client] component looks "better" than HDMI. Personally, I'm one of those guys who likes "rules" cast in stone[HDMI] but sometimes that stone gets broken!!!! Just my 2 cents..........with a lot of years of experience. Knowing that both HDMI & component are active on the Motorola STBs [I will do some research on the Scientific Atlanta boxes]lets me let the client be part of the calibration exercise. If you have the time, try it.....I think you'll be surprised how close they look................and then there's the HDCP handshake problem that crops up periodically!! AFAIK, cablevision & Verizon still use "the old 5 wire' system for HD hook-up......but ITALIAN926 knows better than I. It seems most houses I go to need to be educated re HDMI and cables. C'est la vie!!!!!!