extending a cable run in my house

digs5446

I want to move my main computer/router setup from where it is upstairs to the basement. The existing coax cable that plugs into the router may be too short to simply be snaked down through the hole in the floor and hooked up in the basement. Is it easy enough (or possible) to buy an extension of coax cable to join the existing cable to make it longer? Will the speed/quality be degraded by doing this?

I'd just rather not pay Verizon $99 or whatever for a guy to come do something that I could do easily and cheaply by buying generic coax cable online...

JPL

Why not just replace the coax with new cable? You can connect one cable to another, but I don't know what that will do to any degredation of your signal. You can get a quad shield RG6 cable on line pretty cheap, and if you can run it yourself, all the better.

digs5446

I assume that means unhooking the existing cable from the ONT and trying not to screw up whatever insulating caulk or whetever that goes through the hole in the side of my house, and then re-routing the new run of cable?

I guess I need to take a closer look at the existing setup, it might be easier than I think...I just don't want to mess anything up with the ONT configuration and have Verizon tell me "you should have called us to do this, now we have to charge you X amount to fix it..."

schvidah

The cable just screws in on both ends. There is nothing to mess up. The only issue is as you brought up is if there is any caulk where a cable went through an outside wall. This too is easy to replace. Its only function is to insulate your house, and stop insects and water from getting in. A $4. tube of caulk from Home Depot is all you need to replace it.

Replacing the whole cable with a longer one is in fact your best option, but your first solution of extending your existing cable should work fine in most cases. You will need a double male end connector and another length of cable to do it. Both items are readily available online (monoprice.com) or at the store (home depot or radio shack). I would go with monoprice as they will sell you the stuff at about half the price as the others. There will be a slight signal loss by doing this, but in most cases it will be so minor that you will never notice. With the fiber optic line that Verizon uses the signal is very strong and should easily be able to handle the very minor signal leak.

__________________
Verizon Fios/QIP6416 DVR
Yamaha RX-V661 AVR
Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP Television
SVS SB-01 5.1 Surround With PB12 Subwoofer
Pioneer DV-48AV DVD Player
Nintendo Wii

digs5446

Thanks for the tip schvidah, I think I'll considering replacing the whole run so there's no signal loss. If that seems to daunting (which I doubt), I'll try plan B.

JPL

The one thing to consider with this, though, is the opening into the house from the ONT for the coax. If you don't have the proper tools to put a new connector on a coax, you may have an issue. Generally when they run coax, they put the connector on after running the cable, so as to minimize the hole that they need to drill.

I would probably try plan B first - getting a double male connector is cheap enough, and I agree with schvidah - monoprice is a great source for those cables. I got a 50' quad-shield RG6 cable from them, and it was less than half the cost of equivalent cable from Radio Shack. If the cable run is short enough, you shouldn't have an issue going this route. It's a pretty easy thing to try first.

ITALIAN926

schvidah , you are giving advice when you really have no idea what his situation is. Yes, the signal is strong at the ONT but signal degrades too much even for FiOS if there is crappy cable, bad splitters , TOO MANY splits. He might be running through 4 splitters for all you know and currently be at a borderline situation. Its not just the # of splitters either, there are different Db losses for different kinds of splitters and different ports on them. Its too complicated for someone to do without a signal meter in most cases.

Digs.. be warned.... 95% of the pre-made coax sold is JUNK... and causes problems. Whenever I come across it on an installation, I rip it out and replace it. People who put on their own coax ends ( connectors ) on good quality RG6do it wrong. Keep in mind that if you screw this up, you will not only cause internet problems, youll be having interactive video troubles ( guide, information , VOD, multi-room, widgets )

You may spend extra money to TRY to do this yourself, screw it up and ultimately have Verizon do it anyway. If you want to move the router, my advice is to have it done right.. by Verizon.

If anything, for the cheapest way out, I would suggest you leave the router where it is.. and carefully snake down a pre-made ethernet cord. Good luck.

__________________
Proud owner of a 60" plasma and ~1500 DVD's Pio PDP-6010FD , Panny TH-42PX77U, Toshiba HD DVD Player (HD-A20)
Xbox 360

Verizon FiOS technician
My Family Room Pic #1

My Family Room Pic #2

digs5446

Thank you all for your advice - I'm glad I've given it a few days to hear some thoughts and didn't rush into anything. Maybe I should take the time to upload some photos and explain in detail my current setup, but I can't get into that right now (at work).

All I know for now is that I don't think I can snake the exisiting cable (which is right above the basement where I will want to computer set up) down through the hole because the hole was drilled just big enough to get the cable through. The tech must have attatched the round metal end thingy that (connects to the router) after the fact.

I can say this from memory - there's a single black cable going from the ONT (which is outside the house) through a small hole going into the basement, and that cable ends up in one end of a "mega splitter" or whatever. On the other end of that splitter are a couple white cables that lead to God knows what (thisis what I need to investigate more closely), and another black cable which runs from the splitter up through the ceiling to my router.

So if I did choose to do this myself, it wouldn't involve any going through the wall of my house - I would just disassemble/cut the round metal connector thingy from the cable that's going into my router, unsnake the cable back down through the hole and trash it, and connect a new, appropriately long cable from the splitter to where we want the computer to be on the other end of the basement (about 20 feet). That would require no extra links that could lead to signal loss, and technically no changes to the original configuration installed by Verizon. The only concern is what ITALIAN926 mentioned; that premade RG6 cable is junk. Is that true? Even from reputable places like Monoprice?

And one more thing ITALIAN926 - you mentioned that I could leave the router as is and snake down a premade ethernet cord to the computer in its new location...but that would necessitate drilling a second hole through my floor, right? This is going to end up being my future baby's room so I'd rather not have a router and multiple cables and holes in there at all...it's a small room. The wife wants all computer/electronic debris out, hence the whole reason for doing this.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention one thing that may be helpful to know - when the tech originally installed our system over two years ago, I told him that we were eventually going to want to move the router and computer set up the the basement. So he gave us an extra 5-7 feet or so of cable that he said could be snaked back down, which he budled tightly and tied out of the way for when we needed it. The things I can't figure out are: why he bothered giving us way less extra cable that we will need (I showed him exactly where in the basement we wanted to move the setup), and how we are supposed to snake the cable down if it has a coax connector/end that can't fit through the hole?

JPL

Your approach sounds good to me. That's probably what I would do (if I'm visualizing your setup correctly) - disconnect the existing cable from your router, cut the connector off, and drop the cable back down the hole. Disconnect the other end of that cable from your cable splitter. Move the router downstairs, and connect a new cable from the splitter to the router. I think that's entirely reasonable.

I've done similar things like that in rerouting STBs through my house. I've never crimped on a coax connector, so I also took the easy way out, and just cut the connector off my existing cable, and got new cable.

As for the extra cable your installer gave you - I don't know why he didn't give you a long enough extension on the cable. But as for rerouting it back downstairs, I think he was assuming that you would cut the connector off the coax at the router end, pull the coax back downstairs, and put on a new connector on the existing coax, and just rerun to your new router's location. If you don't know how to do all that (putting on a new connector), then getting new cabling should work just fine.

As for the cable that Italian decried - I don't want to speak for him, but I understand what he's talking about. Alot of the cabling you buy at places like Home Depot is crap. It's thin RG59 cable, where the connectors are crap. I've used such cable to no ill effect, and if you're doing a short run (and 20' definitely qualifies as a short run in my book) it would work as well. That being said, I've ordered quad-shield RG6 cable from monoprice, and it was pretty darn nice quality. I bought a 50' cable, with connectors already attached, so I could add an STB to one of my upstairs rooms. For what you're planning to do, I would highly recommend quad-shield RG6 cabling. It's more expensive, but it's not horrible (especially if you order it on a site like monoprice).

One last point - as to the ethernet cable that Italian mentioned - here's the deal. Verizon will hook up FiOS internet in one of two ways. Either via ethernet or MoCA. With an ethernet connection, the cabling you have goes like this:

- ONT -> computer router - cat5 cable (looks like really thick, blue, telephone cabling).
- ONT -> cable TV splitter - coax
- computer router -> cable TV splitter - coax

So you really have two connections to your router in this configuration - a cat5 cable directly from the ONT to the router, and a coax from the router to your cable TV splitter. This is the configuration that I have, and used to be pretty standard for Verizon to install.

The other approach (MoCA) is different - they use coax to deliver your internet service, so your cabling would look like this:

- ONT -> cable TV splitter - coax
- computer router -> cable TV splitter - coax

Basically, the coax that feeds your TV service (from the ONT) also carries your internet service. It sounds like this is the configuration you have. It's easy enough to tell - look behind your router - if you only see a coax going to it from your ONT, you're set up as MoCA... if you see a coax and a blue cat5 cable, you're set up as ethernet. I think Italian was assuming that you're hooked up with ethernet. If you're hooked up with MoCA, then what you planned on doing, I think, makes sense. If you're hooked up as ethernet, then you have a little more work to do - not only do you need to reroute the coax, but you would need to reroute the cat5 as well. But like I said, assuming you are hooked up as MoCA, what you described makes sense to me. Although - don't throw away the cable that you currently have going to your router - just because you cut the connector off, doesn't mean that the cable's no longer good - it still is. You would just need to put on a new connector.

Edit - just reread what Italian recommended. I see what he's saying. He's talking about the ethernet cable that's going from your router to your computer - basically leaving the router where it is, and snaking new ethernet cable back downstairs (he wasn't talking about an ethernet connection from your ONT to your router - but the ethernet connection from your router to your computer). The thing is - I'm not sure what this buys you. One way or the other you're snaking a cable from one floor to another. And the cat5 cable has a pretty hefty connector on the end too, so you'd have the same issue of needing to drill a hole big enough to snake the cable down (unless you want to get into reattaching connectors onto cat5 cabling). To me I think your approach makes the most sense. It's easy to do, and if you get a decent quality cable, you'll be fine.

Oh yeah - and congratulations on the baby! I'm expecting one too (my 5th), so I can understand the need to making your wife happy at this point .

digs5446

Yeah, I knew that's what he meant but I still didn't want to deal with a router still in the room with more holes drilled, etc. I'm pretty sure I have the MoCA configuration, but I'll double check tonight.

If so, I think I'm going to order a 25' quad shield RG6 cable from monoprice, they're only five bucks and change...with shipping the total is less than $11. Way cheaper than having Verizon do essentially the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I've been super happy with Verizon's techs and have complete faith in them, I'm just trying to save what I consider a good chunck of change.

My rule is as long as I'm fairly confident in the task at hand and that I won't break something, I'd rather do it myself. If I feel like I'm guessing and crossing fingers, I pay a pro. For example, I will never pay Best Buy to set up a home theater speaker system because I've done it myself in four different apartments. It's a cakewalk for me and I have a good enough ear to know whether it's calibrated properly. However you won't see me trying to wall mount a 50 inch plasma anytime soon. I'm really not the mechanical type.

Oh and about the baby - that's more of a future hypothetical, "we're" not pregnant but trying . But congrats on yours!

schvidah

Yes Italian, you are correct, I am not employed as an installer and of course I can not provide 100% accurate information without every aspect of his setup. I would venture to say even you, an installer, could not give him 100% correct advice without all the information either. I simply provided the most accurate answers given the provided information. While I am not a professional installer, I have been routing and rerouting cable in my various houses since the 1980's and I do know what I am talking about when I dispense advice. If I am not sure, I do not chime in. It is true if he already has a ton of connections, then this may be the one that puts him over the edge and screws up his signal, but I thought I alluded to that in my comment. In most cases one connection of this type using a quality retail cable and connector will result in only a small leak which will not be noticed, and I stand by that. Now in a few cases, this will mess things up, which is why I recommended that he make a fresh run.

As far as the quality of retail cable, monoprice sells high quality cable at reasonable prices and I stand by that as well. That is what I recommended. If he goes out and buys 200 feet of generic cable at wal-mart for $4.95, then yes it will probably be crap.

__________________
Verizon Fios/QIP6416 DVR
Yamaha RX-V661 AVR
Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP Television
SVS SB-01 5.1 Surround With PB12 Subwoofer
Pioneer DV-48AV DVD Player
Nintendo Wii

ITALIAN926

Ok peeps, I have used my signal meter thousands upon thousands of times and I'll say it again... pre-made coax is GARBAGE. The reason for this is most of them are low quality with a purpose of sending analog signals from STB to TV... not to extend a digital signal feeding a STB... and certainly not a FiOS signal and DEFINITELY NOT to feed a Verizon Router.

Schvidah.. didnt mean to sound insulting to ya.... but I can tell you this , youve been doing this for years??? So youre one of the people causing us FiOS techs hell running youre own pre-made crap. LOL. Its funny because just yesterday , I had to replace ALL the coax in the customers house because it was entirely wired with pre-made radio shack junk. I had failing signals at every STB.

As far as monoprice, I stand behind them as well for all their cables... EXCEPT for the purpose of using pre-made coax to extend a STB or router.

Some of you still may not get what Im talking about... but Ive been on dozens of repair jobs which end up being customer do-it-yourselfer's gone wrong. The best is when they blame Verizon for the issue and insist the crap cable was installed by Verizon !

Digs, I know youre trying to save money... and I hope you succeed without problems. Hopefully you wont get an "i told you so " outve me when you make a post for on-demand problems a week later.

__________________
Proud owner of a 60" plasma and ~1500 DVD's Pio PDP-6010FD , Panny TH-42PX77U, Toshiba HD DVD Player (HD-A20)
Xbox 360

Verizon FiOS technician
My Family Room Pic #1

My Family Room Pic #2

JPL

I'm not going to argue with you about this - since you have actual field experience. All I can say is that I've run my own coax for my STBs - all pre-made stuff - including a 50' run that I put in for a DCT700 that Verizon gave me when they did their analog shut-off. I've had zero problems - the PQ on that dct700 btw really is pretty impressive. Granted, I've never done this for coax runs to my router, but I guess I don't understand why coax that can handle an analog signal can't also adequately handle a digital signal. I understand why you'd want to use shielded cable versus RG59, but even the RG59 that I've run has given me no issues. Analog signals are much more prone to issues involving signal leakage than digital is.

What's the worst that happens to the OP? He reroutes everything, and something isn't right. He then calls Verizon in to do the clean-up work. He's out, what, $11 for the cable. But if it works, he saves himself the cost of the tech visit.

Scottnot

False, misleading and just plain silly.

Sorry, but signals is signals. To suggest that a "FiOs signal" is somehow different from any other high frequency signal is nothing but the height of absurdity.

Something lost in translation here.
Again, what in the world could be the "special circumstances" in the case of extending either a STB or a router?????
Simple answer - there is none.
I guess now would be a good time to mention one of the big pluses of "pre-made coax" which is that the connectors have been factory installed, thus reducing the potential problem of an inexperienced individual improperly doing same.

Yep, that's me.

Perhaps - but the "gone wrong" in every case is certainly bent cable (kinks, tight radii), improperly installed connectors, low frequency splitters, or other factors . . . but NEVER, NEVER, NEVER so-called "garbage cable".
What could possibly be the technical reason why the cable doesn't work????????

You may be an "experienced Verizon tech", but as someone who worked in the high frequency industry for almost thirty years your condemnation of pre-made coax, radio shack coax, wal-mart coax and such is simply absurd.
Basically cable is cable; and coax is coax; so long as the cable (even RG59) meets the frequency requirments of the task at hand (for FIO
S service, that would be only 1 GHz)and lengths are within the attenuation range of the cable the home user will have no problems.
It should be noted that it would be damn hard, if not outright impossible to find an off-the-shelf pre-made cable these days that didn't work just fine in a FIOS application since none of this stuff is made in garages, but comes from finely tuned factories that turn the stuff out by the mile.

ITALIAN926

Ok Scott , Im entirely wrong. Ive been hallucinating every single time I get bad signal readings when tesing pre-made coax.

Or.. maybe its the fact that a lot of pre-made crap isnt even properly shielded ! Half the pre-made stuff out there doesnt even have braiding within it ! The connectors arent even adequately manufactured most of the time !

I'm a damn specialist when it comes to what I do.... and you can believe what you wish about that cable given your theoretical experiences. have a nice day

__________________
Proud owner of a 60" plasma and ~1500 DVD's Pio PDP-6010FD , Panny TH-42PX77U, Toshiba HD DVD Player (HD-A20)
Xbox 360

Verizon FiOS technician
My Family Room Pic #1

My Family Room Pic #2