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Old 12-20-2010, 07:11 AM   #46
JPL
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Originally Posted by OCgamer View Post
Power down mode according to Verizon is to put the box into standbye mode (thats when you just see the time on the display).
Not sure why you are telling me about the return procedure of verizon? Do you like to type meaningless things? I can do that too, did you see the philadelphia eagles game what a great game fantastic finish. Yeah I know what does that have to do with turning off the STB figured I help JBL with random BS so hes not alone in his world.
Again, YOU were the one who made a big deal out of bricking the DVR. YOU made the claim that my advice could cause the DVR to brick. Not only is that patently ridiculous (and counters the advice that Verizon themselves give you in their trouble-shooting), I asked the question: what if what you said is right? What if it does brick the DVR? YOU CALL VERIZON AND GET A NEW ONE!

You're really wondering the relevence of the trade-in policy of Verizon?! The whole point of that little 'meaningless' item is to illustrate what you do should your DVR die on you for whatever reason.

BTW, let me ask the painfully obvious question here - let's assume what you said is right, that putting the unit in Standby 'powers it down' (it doesn't - know how I can tell? Because on one of my TVs, if I put the unit in standby, I still get sound on my TV... amazing how you can do that since the unit is 'powered down'... but let's say that your statement in some bizarre universe is right). And let's further assume that what you said about the need to power down before pulling the plug. Ok... so why doesn't Verizon's own trouble-shooting procedures call for you to do just that? Reread the instructions that I linked to. I tells you to pull the plug on the unit. Nowhere in there does it tell you to make sure you hit the 'power' button first.

Last edited by JPL; 12-20-2010 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:14 AM   #47
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This is exactly my point you dont understand. Some units boot off the HD some units use proprietary chips sometimes called firmware but thats too simplistic. Its possible to upgrade some boxes by cloning the OS from the smaller HD to a larger HD however those boxes that use the HD as a slave component cannot be swapped without first changing the OS on the chip and I dont know anyone who has successfully done that yet not saying it cannot be done I just dont know anyone who has done it because if they can they can do far more than just change the HD parameters for a larger one. They could directly alter the encryption or any number of other menu functions this would be a very saught after function for a number of reasons and I dont even think Verizon has the ability to do that. This has always been the goal of all those who want to receive signal for free. But cloning an OS on a drive is real easy just like cloning an OS on any windows system for backup. Cracking open the case is just an industry term it doesnt mean to break it open it just means to remove the screws and open it.
And yet you totally ignored my question to you - if the HD is indeed being written to as part of the firmware, then how does their NON-DVR STBs work? Hmmm? My stand-alone box, which has NO HD, runs the exact same firmware that's running my DVR. Please explain to me how the firmware could be swapping anything to the HD in that box, because I'd love to hear it.

The only thing written to the HD in the DVR are your recordings.

I know you think I'm an idiot and all, but I understood what you meant by 'cracking the case'. I didn't take that to literally mean taking a big nutcracker and opening the case. Obviously it entails removing screws, and removing the cover. THAT is cracking the case. And it's something that you're not supposed to do with these units. If the unit fails during normal operations (including your big fear that the unit can brick from pulling the plug) Verizon will send you a new one, no questions asked. If, however, you violate the terms of use of your box, and you do something that they tell specifically NOT to do, you've just violated the terms of use, and therefore any damage done to the unit YOU WILL GET CHARGED FOR. My advice was harmless, and falls totally in line with what Verizon advises. YOUR advice to crack the case could really do damage - if the person you were giving that advice to did something to mess up the unit after removing the cover, they could be liable for the damage to that box. You know what these boxes run? You know how much Verizon will charge you should you do something like that? The SD boxes will run you probably $250 each... the HD boxes probably $400... and the DVRs up to $700 - $800. But MY advice was dangerous... right.

BTW, I hate to ask the obvious question, but what the hell - how could you possibly ever remove the case? I mean don't you need to pull the plug to do that? And since you're scared to death of pulling the plug, and since you admitted that your unit is never shut off (even in standby), when can you ever safely crack the case? Don't you have to first pull the plug to do that?

Last edited by JPL; 12-20-2010 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:33 AM   #48
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"This is exactly my point you dont understand. Some units boot off the HD some units use proprietary chips sometimes called firmware but thats too simplistic. Its possible to upgrade some boxes by cloning the OS from the smaller HD to a larger HD however those boxes that use the HD as a slave component cannot be swapped without first changing the OS on the chip and I dont know anyone who has successfully done that yet not saying it cannot be done I just dont know anyone who has done it because if they can they can do far more than just change the HD parameters for a larger one. "

OH good golly! The VZ box uses custom made firmware that resides in the onboard memory. When a the firmware detects the drive it formats it to the size format allowed by the type of box. either the 6416 7216 or 7232.160 gigs 0r 500 for the 7232. With 1.9 it will enable the esata so that a (up to) 1Tb drive can be attached. It is NOT possible to upgrade some boxes by cloning a drive. Where the heck did you pull that from? YOu talk about doing this and then in the next sentence say that no one has ever done it?
Now.. power off. stand by etc. It USED to be that when the box was powered off - using the power button on the remote or the power button on the the stb it put it in to standby and it would turn off the rf video feed from the internal tuner. However there was still "power" as such going to the box. This is still the case until the box is activated unless it is a new box that has the 1.8 self activating firmware on it. You can tell this because the tv will have a blank picture when the cable ie coax, is connected. if you remove the cable the picture is all snow. no signal. All vz did with the screen saver was still turn off the external rf video feed and replace it with the internal screen saver feed.
Also when someone calls in for tech support they do not get told to "turn the box on and off" they are ABSOLUTELY told to disconnect the power from the stb.
You spout that you talk to all the high level people at VZ and at this I just chuckle . please just respond with some initials and the town they work in. no really, please do. Because the more I read of your contradictory information and perceived joy of tossing out random facts and information the more convinced I am that your just making shit up as you go.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:46 PM   #49
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You are arguing with a guy who swears COMCAST HD is better than Verizons... LOL ... Ive been ignoring his posts ever since.
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One thing I can tell you is Verizons FIOS TV is not as good as comcraps HD just comparing the nightly news on NBC/HD I see a huge difference no dandruff on the suit and the pleats on the suit are washed out on verizons unit. Everything on FIOS seems a bit more blurry and less detail im not talking about recordings im talking about live TV its less in PQ. The info says its 1080i but clearly there is a difference between comrap 1080i and verizon 1080i.

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I would like to see motorola step up and except fiber optic to their boxes im sure it would improve signal quality.
I really wanted to call him out on this one way back when. Whats the limitation of RG6? 200 Mbps? Probably more? Id love to know how fiber IW would improve PQ of a 1080i signal.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:24 AM   #50
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I know you think I'm an idiot and all, but I understood what you meant by 'cracking the case'. I didn't take that to literally mean taking a big nutcracker and opening the case. Obviously it entails removing screws, and removing the cover. THAT is cracking the case. And it's something that you're not supposed to do with these units. If the unit fails during normal operations (including your big fear that the unit can brick from pulling the plug) Verizon will send you a new one, no questions asked. If, however, you violate the terms of use of your box, and you do something that they tell specifically NOT to do, you've just violated the terms of use, and therefore any damage done to the unit YOU WILL GET CHARGED FOR. My advice was harmless, and falls totally in line with what Verizon advises. YOUR advice to crack the case could really do damage - if the person you were giving that advice to did something to mess up the unit after removing the cover, they could be liable for the damage to that box. You know what these boxes run? You know how much Verizon will charge you should you do something like that? The SD boxes will run you probably $250 each... the HD boxes probably $400... and the DVRs up to $700 - $800. But MY advice was dangerous... right.

BTW, I hate to ask the obvious question, but what the hell - how could you possibly ever remove the case? I mean don't you need to pull the plug to do that? And since you're scared to death of pulling the plug, and since you admitted that your unit is never shut off (even in standby), when can you ever safely crack the case? Don't you have to first pull the plug to do that?
LOL! Well based on your previous comments I didnt want to ass-u-me you knew anything below the 70 IQ threshold. Pulling the plug is fine with the motorola unit you didnt read my post. This is a problem of yours ADHD pills might need a higher dosage. Yeah crazy ok if you turn off your unit via remote when the clock is displayed your ready to unplug. HD drives head autopark on shutdown. To remove the case you need a tool then turn the tool counter clockwise till the screws no longer connect to the case frame be carefull not to drop the screws into the unit. If that happens donot turn unit upside down or retrieve screws with magnetic tool(s). Also make sure not to drop your cheetos into the unit. Ok if not familar with tools use your DVR to record saturday morning shows on how to work on things usually on PBS. There is also books in the Dummies line that will show you the correct way to use tools. Yes because I can think ahead of you, your worried about the proprietary special head on the screws. LOL if you need the special tool you can buy it online. But I have always found its easier to just make the tool by either making a cast or in this case even a crude set of pliers will work. Make sure to tape up the teeth so you dont leave any scratches. Given your limited knowledge I dont recommend you to do this a hammer and a flat head are not the tools I would use. Are you allowed to use such tools? Anyway enough fun for today.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:37 AM   #51
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[quote=PoloDude;1127548OH good golly! The VZ box uses custom made firmware that resides in the onboard memory. When a the firmware detects the drive it formats it to the size format allowed by the type of box. either the 6416 7216 or 7232.160 gigs 0r 500 for the 7232. With 1.9 it will enable the esata so that a (up to) 1Tb drive can be attached. It is NOT possible to upgrade some boxes by cloning a drive. Where the heck did you pull that from? YOu talk about doing this and then in the next sentence say that no one has ever done it?
Now.. power off. stand by etc. It USED to be that when the box was powered off - using the power button on the remote or the power button on the the stb it put it in to standby and it would turn off the rf video feed from the internal tuner. However there was still "power" as such going to the box. This is still the case until the box is activated unless it is a new box that has the 1.8 self activating firmware on it. You can tell this because the tv will have a blank picture when the cable ie coax, is connected. if you remove the cable the picture is all snow. no signal. All vz did with the screen saver was still turn off the external rf video feed and replace it with the internal screen saver feed.
Also when someone calls in for tech support they do not get told to "turn the box on and off" they are ABSOLUTELY told to disconnect the power from the stb.
You spout that you talk to all the high level people at VZ and at this I just chuckle . please just respond with some initials and the town they work in. no really, please do. Because the more I read of your contradictory information and perceived joy of tossing out random facts and information the more convinced I am that your just making shit up as you go.[/QUOTE]

I have stated in many posts I dont know the OS being either chip or HD based and nobody at Verizon has told me whether they know or dont. Cloning a drive in the case of Dish works fine there has been numerous articles on it. However again this was at least 5 years ago. Today I donno, and dont care I dont have Dish anymore. Yes I have talked to 3rd level techs but not because im a rich person who rubs shoulders with the CEO or CFO. LOL well sometimes I used to run a large computer company in the 90's and have been retired for years, you see many on the golf courses although I never met a verizon boss. No I just know how to work the simplistic phone menus and how to say the right things to get myself transfered to the development personal. If you know how phone menus work ie. department heads begin with certain numbers you can get pretty close to the CEO although I always try for the higher techs. Its amazing how many companies use the same exact phone systems. The more complicated the system the more help it has to give you.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:09 AM   #52
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These OCgamer posts simply crack me up, for a variety of reasons including how my 4th grade grammar and my college symbolic logic teachers would react to his postings. But I digress.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:16 AM   #53
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LOL! Well based on your previous comments I didnt want to ass-u-me you knew anything below the 70 IQ threshold. Pulling the plug is fine with the motorola unit you didnt read my post. This is a problem of yours ADHD pills might need a higher dosage. Yeah crazy ok if you turn off your unit via remote when the clock is displayed your ready to unplug. HD drives head autopark on shutdown. To remove the case you need a tool then turn the tool counter clockwise till the screws no longer connect to the case frame be carefull not to drop the screws into the unit. If that happens donot turn unit upside down or retrieve screws with magnetic tool(s). Also make sure not to drop your cheetos into the unit. Ok if not familar with tools use your DVR to record saturday morning shows on how to work on things usually on PBS. There is also books in the Dummies line that will show you the correct way to use tools. Yes because I can think ahead of you, your worried about the proprietary special head on the screws. LOL if you need the special tool you can buy it online. But I have always found its easier to just make the tool by either making a cast or in this case even a crude set of pliers will work. Make sure to tape up the teeth so you dont leave any scratches. Given your limited knowledge I dont recommend you to do this a hammer and a flat head are not the tools I would use. Are you allowed to use such tools? Anyway enough fun for today.
Wow... really laying it on thick with the 'you're a moron' meme, huh? Love those personal attacks. Tells me all I need to know about your position - you're dead wrong on everything posted in this thread - you've made contradictory statements, which is a clear sign that you're hedging - so you revert to over the top ad-hominem attacks. It's you only course of action. I understand. You have no information on your side, so your only recourse is to attack. Fine. On the intelligence front I will say this - at least I can: a) spell; b) employ correct sentence structure and standard rules of grammar.

I fall down on both from time to time (I type very quickly and sometimes I don't proof-read), but by and large I succeed. I'll be honest, I have trouble reading your posts.

BTW, just to help you along with future insults against me... you DO know that ADHD and low IQ aren't the same thing, right? I know a few people who are diagnosed ADD and ADHD, and they're extremely smart. I won't even mention the fact that you inadvertently un-insulted me:

"I didnt want to ass-u-me you knew anything below the 70 IQ threshold."

That statement says that I'm not a moron - because I'm not familiar with thinking below a 70-level IQ. But don't worry - I can figure out based on context what you're really trying to say... gee, I guess that means I'm not a moron either! I can figure out context! But just for future reference, if you want to call someone a moron, you need to correct the statement:

"I didn't want to assume you knew anything above the 70 IQ threshold."

There... not only did I correct the preposition (that's the word 'above' vs. 'below'), I also corrected your grammar. Oh and I got rid of that oh-look-how-cute-I-can-be spelling of 'assume'. Yes, I've seen The Odd Couple too. But you knew all that... because you're SO much smarter than I am... I forgot.

Finally, on some of what you posted here, I'm frankly at a loss to understand what the hell you're position really is - you've gone back and forth, straddling both sides of the line, that you've taken all positions at the same time. Here are some of my favorites:

- Pulling the plug on a DVR can cause it to brick... so you should NEVER do it... except that Verizon tells you specifically to do it as part of their trouble-shooting... but cracking the case and messing with your harddrive... that's just fine.

- Pulling the plug is both so strong that it can brick your unit... but will do absolutely nothing to the unit at the same time (can't possibly fix an issue).

- You have no idea if these units boot up off the HD or just through memory, despite the fact that I've pointed out REPEATEDLY that the non-DVR units and DVRs both use the exact same firmware, and the non-DVRs have no harddrive. Ergo... it HAS to boot off memory.

- Hitting the power button... oh, hell, I really don't know what you're side is on this. In some posts it's part of the power down procedure, and in others nothing is really shut off. I've been totally consistent and clear on this one. I've said repeatedly that hitting power DOES NOTHING. It doesn't 'park' the harddrive. That's just nonsense. Because if it did, then you wouldn't be able to hit the power button while the unit is actively recording something. And I've done that alot - I shut off the power while it's recording all the time. And it never does anything squirrely with my recordings.

- And let's not forget my personal favorite: the guide data (both the quality of it, and how often it updates) has no impact on how well your DVR does its thing. This one would take a whole thread in and of itself to dive into... and I'm not going there.

In all seriousness, I really have nothing against you. Not sure why you felt compelled to openly attack me like that (sloppily, I might add), but whatever. I'm not going to stop posting on this forum just because you think I stick my nose into everything... I probably will refrain from responding to, or even reading, future posts by you... but I still fully intend to continue providing my insight when and where I'm able. If you don't like that... I frankly don't care.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:42 AM   #54
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Wow... really laying it on thick with the 'you're a moron' meme, huh? Love those personal attacks. Tells me all I need to know about your position - you're dead wrong on everything posted in this thread - you've made contradictory statements, which is a clear sign that you're hedging - so you revert to over the top ad-hominem attacks. It's you only course of action. I understand. You have no information on your side, so your only recourse is to attack. Fine. On the intelligence front I will say this - at least I can: a) spell; b) employ correct sentence structure and standard rules of grammar.

I fall down on both from time to time (I type very quickly and sometimes I don't proof-read), but by and large I succeed. I'll be honest, I have trouble reading your posts.

BTW, just to help you along with future insults against me... you DO know that ADHD and low IQ aren't the same thing, right? I know a few people who are diagnosed ADD and ADHD, and they're extremely smart. I won't even mention the fact that you inadvertently un-insulted me:

"I didnt want to ass-u-me you knew anything below the 70 IQ threshold."

That statement says that I'm not a moron - because I'm not familiar with thinking below a 70-level IQ. But don't worry - I can figure out based on context what you're really trying to say... gee, I guess that means I'm not a moron either! I can figure out context! But just for future reference, if you want to call someone a moron, you need to correct the statement:

"I didn't want to assume you knew anything above the 70 IQ threshold."

There... not only did I correct the preposition (that's the word 'above' vs. 'below'), I also corrected your grammar. Oh and I got rid of that oh-look-how-cute-I-can-be spelling of 'assume'. Yes, I've seen The Odd Couple too. But you knew all that... because you're SO much smarter than I am... I forgot.

Finally, on some of what you posted here, I'm frankly at a loss to understand what the hell you're position really is - you've gone back and forth, straddling both sides of the line, that you've taken all positions at the same time. Here are some of my favorites:

- Pulling the plug on a DVR can cause it to brick... so you should NEVER do it... except that Verizon tells you specifically to do it as part of their trouble-shooting... but cracking the case and messing with your harddrive... that's just fine.

- Pulling the plug is both so strong that it can brick your unit... but will do absolutely nothing to the unit at the same time (can't possibly fix an issue).

- You have no idea if these units boot up off the HD or just through memory, despite the fact that I've pointed out REPEATEDLY that the non-DVR units and DVRs both use the exact same firmware, and the non-DVRs have no harddrive. Ergo... it HAS to boot off memory.

- Hitting the power button... oh, hell, I really don't know what you're side is on this. In some posts it's part of the power down procedure, and in others nothing is really shut off. I've been totally consistent and clear on this one. I've said repeatedly that hitting power DOES NOTHING. It doesn't 'park' the harddrive. That's just nonsense. Because if it did, then you wouldn't be able to hit the power button while the unit is actively recording something. And I've done that alot - I shut off the power while it's recording all the time. And it never does anything squirrely with my recordings.

- And let's not forget my personal favorite: the guide data (both the quality of it, and how often it updates) has no impact on how well your DVR does its thing. This one would take a whole thread in and of itself to dive into... and I'm not going there.

In all seriousness, I really have nothing against you. Not sure why you felt compelled to openly attack me like that (sloppily, I might add), but whatever. I'm not going to stop posting on this forum just because you think I stick my nose into everything... I probably will refrain from responding to, or even reading, future posts by you... but I still fully intend to continue providing my insight when and where I'm able. If you don't like that... I frankly don't care.
Well after you ratted me out I have to watch my P's and Q's so im not going to tell it like it is. This usually happens when the person doing the ratting cannot take the heat. Hmm the DVR and NON DVR have the same firmware??? So your saying they can do the exact same things? Wow thats interesting I guess non DVR's record and have the ability to record. Problem with your statement is im not sure you know what firmware is. I have no idea if motorola uses chip or HD based Os's but im certainly sure you have no idea. I can tell you that computer chips are not served at parties with dip.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:49 AM   #55
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ONce again OC comes in and spouts off on things and takes another shot at JPL.
Yes they do have the same firmware. It is designed to recognize the type of STB it is loaded on. For instance,If it sees the DVR it enables that function. If it is a NON DVR you then have the ability to set a reminder.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:27 AM   #56
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Well after you ratted me out I have to watch my P's and Q's so im not going to tell it like it is...
Unfortunately you do not know what "it is." There are numerous posts on this and the DSL Reports forum, made by qualified and knowledgeable members, that rebut most of what you say on this forum. I think your knowledge of computer hardware and software (including firmware) is ten years old (grossly out of date) -- at least your comments would indicate that to be the case.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:44 PM   #57
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Well after you ratted me out I have to watch my P's and Q's so im not going to tell it like it is. This usually happens when the person doing the ratting cannot take the heat. Hmm the DVR and NON DVR have the same firmware??? So your saying they can do the exact same things? Wow thats interesting I guess non DVR's record and have the ability to record. Problem with your statement is im not sure you know what firmware is. I have no idea if motorola uses chip or HD based Os's but im certainly sure you have no idea. I can tell you that computer chips are not served at parties with dip.
Yes... they run the same freaking firmware. I guess it's not possible to have the firmware determine whether it's running on a DVR or on a stand-alone STB, huh?

BTW, you keep referring to not knowing what Motorola runs. Why does that matter? Verizon has their own software.
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:53 PM   #58
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hmmmmm.....
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:58 AM   #59
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You are arguing with a guy who swears COMCAST HD is better than Verizons... LOL ... Ive been ignoring his posts ever since.


I really wanted to call him out on this one way back when. Whats the limitation of RG6? 200 Mbps? Probably more? Id love to know how fiber IW would improve PQ of a 1080i signal.
Hey I hate comcrap everyone knows that but they do have better HD PQ I have both systems and you can see the difference. Of course now my smallest TV is 57" and without having a large TV you will not see the difference. Now I was talking about HD only their analog 480 is as crappy as the rest and they use alot of compression.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:59 AM   #60
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Yes... they run the same freaking firmware. I guess it's not possible to have the firmware determine whether it's running on a DVR or on a stand-alone STB, huh?

BTW, you keep referring to not knowing what Motorola runs. Why does that matter? Verizon has their own software.
LOL they dont use the same firmware why would they. The DVR firmware has features that the non DVR doesnt have.
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