Best solution for surround sound connections (xbox 360 and basic cable)

dsimmelink · 03-23-2009, 01:30 PM

Hi Kam (and everybody!),
Kam, in another thread of mine you suggested running an optical cable to fix the intermittent problem I was having with my 360 only outputting 2-ch stereo when connected via HDMI. I am in the process of buying optical cables to fix this but I just wanted to get a little better understanding in the process.

I've never used optical cables before. After researching the tech behind them they sound pretty amazing. Just to confirm, this is THE best possible (and least problematic) form of transferring high def audio and surround audio in general from source to receiver?

When I run the optical cable from my 360 to my receiver, will I have to change any settings to stop it from sending the audio feed via HDMI as well or is that not an issue? I'm just not sure how that works yet....
Also, is there any need/benefit of getting an optical cable for my PS3 as well? I haven't had any problems at all when watching blu-rays but I just don't know about it all enough yet to know if it's worth considering or not.

And second....
I also was confused with best setup for my cable TV reception. I only have basic cable so I don't have a nice cable box/dvr with high quality outputs. Currently I have: coax cable going from wall plate into TV with red/white RCA jacks going from TV to receiver for audio. My receiver only shows the signal as being 2-ch (however I can hear some effects extras going to the surrounds, a result of matrixing this to 5.1?) which I assume is a limitation of RCA plugs or is there another problem?

Anyways, I just realized that I have an optical output on my TV so I can run another optical cable from my TV audio output to my receiver. If I did this, would my receiver show true 5.1 surround when I am watching highdef TV programs with 5.1 surround sound output being reported on my TV? Or am I just getting the shaft since I only have crappy basic cable? I would think that shouldn't be an issue since even a decent antannae will pick up high def TV feeds which would also contain 5.1 surround audio feed as well right?

**kamspy** · 03-23-2009, 06:19 PM

Optical

For 360-

Used to transport Dolby Digital and dts. Will not carry TrueHD or dts-MA. Since the 360 doesn't support TrueHD or dts-MA, no big deal. IIRC, the 360 will output sound through HDMI and optical. If not, it shouldn't be too hard to find the setting to change. Just look in system settings for digital audio.

For PS3-

The only benefit is if you are having any audio issues with HDMI. If not, you're all good.

For Antenna TV-

Use the optical output on your TV. Anything else will get you 2 channel, which may or may not be turned into a PLX stream by the receiver.

To put it frankly, just use optical from the TV to get the best audio from your channels.

Anything I miss?

dsimmelink · 03-23-2009, 06:34 PM

Thanks kam! Yep that should pretty much do it! I have two new optical cables en route from monoprice. One for 360 to receiver and one for tv to receiver. I'm going to stick with full HDMI for my PS3 as everything has been just peachy so far.

One more quick question for my own knowledge.... I read that optical cable is unable to transfer a bitstreamed TrueHD signal. Is that true? Either way I guess it wouldn't be an issue for the PS3 as it only sends the signal out via PCM anyhow, correct?

**kamspy** · 03-23-2009, 06:42 PM

Optical cannot do TrueHD or dts-MA.

Well, it could, but the powers that be decided we all have to buy new receivers to use the new audio formats

Optical has infinite bandwidth, so it's just a money grabbing tactic.

Long story short, the only way to get lossless audio out of a PS3 is with HDMI and audio settings set to PCM.

dsimmelink · 03-23-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

Optical cannot do TrueHD or dts-MA.

Well, it could, but the powers that be decided we all have to buy new receivers to use the new audio formats

Optical has infinite bandwidth, so it's just a money grabbing tactic.

Long story short, the only way to get lossless audio out of a PS3 is with HDMI and audio settings set to PCM.

Heh... go figure! I assumed it may be a situation similar to that... Well I haven't had any problems with my HDMI connection on the PS3 so I'll just stick with that and be happy!

dsimmelink · 03-27-2009, 05:55 PM

Ok... my optical cables came in from monoprice today. (looked VERY good quality from initial examination btw) So I got the cables ready, accessed the back of my Xbox 360... and sat there a minute. There is no optical output on the back of my xbox. I did a little checking and saw that the optical out put is actually on the COMPONENT cable itself.

Sooooooooo.... if I want to go the optical cable route then I can't use HDMI at all on my 360?? I'm in the air about this... the 2-channel output glitch only happens sometimes and I think I can fix it by my power-on procedure.

So if I do go back to component cables w/ optical for audio, I would be losing some video quality overall right??

Edit: Waiiiiit a minute.... so are they telling me if I want to run optical for my audio then I have to purchase this for 40 more bucks??? If that is the case.... WEAAAAAAK I say. Weak.

BIslander · 03-27-2009, 06:40 PM

I'm trying to understand your current Xbox audio problem, which I gather was discussed in a different thread. What receiver are you using and how is your Xbox connected for both audio and video?

dsimmelink · 03-27-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

I'm trying to understand your current Xbox audio problem, which I gather was discussed in a different thread. What receiver are you using and how is your Xbox connected for both audio and video?

Hello BIslander,
I have a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. Currently I have an HDMI cable connected to the receiver which sends both video AND audio signal. Normally everything works fine and I get a good 5.1ch signal out of it. However, sometimes when I turn on my xbox and my receiver it only connects at 2-channel stereo. I'm not sure what is causing this but in general I have gathered that it is an HDMI handshaking issue causing it.

To fix the problem I have to shut off both my xbox and my receiver. Then power on the xbox, wait about 4 seconds, power on the receiver, and after the xbox boots up and goes to the dash it typically connects fine and shows 5.1channel surrond on my receiver.

Kamspy suggested I try using an optical cable to avoid this problem. Well I just realized that the back of my xbox doesn't have an optical cable output and instead is actually located on the component cable that came with the xbox (see here). I didn't think the video quality of component was as good as HDMI which is why I am hesitant going back to component just to be able to use an optical audio connection.

Any ideas??

BIslander · 03-27-2009, 07:08 PM

That does sound like an HDMI handshake issue. Sometimes something is telling your Xbox that the attached device only supports stereo. Do you have HDMI audio enabled out of your receiver to your TV? TVs are two channel devices are they are the usual source of these kinds of problems. If the 663 has a setting to disable audio for the HDMI output, that might solve your problem.

dsimmelink · 03-27-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

Do you have HDMI audio enabled out of your receiver to your TV?

I have an HDMI cable going to my TV for the video signal. I suppose it could be causing issues with the audio signal however I have all audio muted on my TV but that might not make a difference. (FYI, I also have an optical cable going from the audio output on the TV to the receiver for cable TV watching.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIslander

If the 663 has a setting to disable audio for the HDMI output, that might solve your problem.

OK cool. I will try and locate this, thanks!!

03-23-2009, 01:30 PM	#1
dsimmelink HD/HiFi Overload Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Spokane, WA Age: 29 Posts: 139	Best solution for surround sound connections (xbox 360 and basic cable) Hi Kam (and everybody!), Kam, in another thread of mine you suggested running an optical cable to fix the intermittent problem I was having with my 360 only outputting 2-ch stereo when connected via HDMI. I am in the process of buying optical cables to fix this but I just wanted to get a little better understanding in the process. I've never used optical cables before. After researching the tech behind them they sound pretty amazing. Just to confirm, this is THE best possible (and least problematic) form of transferring high def audio and surround audio in general from source to receiver? When I run the optical cable from my 360 to my receiver, will I have to change any settings to stop it from sending the audio feed via HDMI as well or is that not an issue? I'm just not sure how that works yet.... Also, is there any need/benefit of getting an optical cable for my PS3 as well? I haven't had any problems at all when watching blu-rays but I just don't know about it all enough yet to know if it's worth considering or not. And second.... I also was confused with best setup for my cable TV reception. I only have basic cable so I don't have a nice cable box/dvr with high quality outputs. Currently I have: coax cable going from wall plate into TV with red/white RCA jacks going from TV to receiver for audio. My receiver only shows the signal as being 2-ch (however I can hear some effects extras going to the surrounds, a result of matrixing this to 5.1?) which I assume is a limitation of RCA plugs or is there another problem? Anyways, I just realized that I have an optical output on my TV so I can run another optical cable from my TV audio output to my receiver. If I did this, would my receiver show true 5.1 surround when I am watching highdef TV programs with 5.1 surround sound output being reported on my TV? Or am I just getting the shaft since I only have crappy basic cable? I would think that shouldn't be an issue since even a decent antannae will pick up high def TV feeds which would also contain 5.1 surround audio feed as well right? __________________ HDTV - Vizio XVT 47" 1080P 120hz (SV470XVTV) Receiver - Yamaha RX-V663 Speakers - Energy C-C50 (center), Energy C-300 (fronts), Energy C-50 (surrounds), Energy ESW-8 (sub) Blu-Ray/DVD Player - PS3 Media Server - Netgear Readynas NV+ Media Streamer - Original Xbox (w/ latest XBox Media Center) Other gaming - Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii

03-23-2009, 06:34 PM	#3
dsimmelink HD/HiFi Overload Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Spokane, WA Age: 29 Posts: 139	Thanks kam! Yep that should pretty much do it! I have two new optical cables en route from monoprice. One for 360 to receiver and one for tv to receiver. I'm going to stick with full HDMI for my PS3 as everything has been just peachy so far. One more quick question for my own knowledge.... I read that optical cable is unable to transfer a bitstreamed TrueHD signal. Is that true? Either way I guess it wouldn't be an issue for the PS3 as it only sends the signal out via PCM anyhow, correct? __________________ HDTV - Vizio XVT 47" 1080P 120hz (SV470XVTV) Receiver - Yamaha RX-V663 Speakers - Energy C-C50 (center), Energy C-300 (fronts), Energy C-50 (surrounds), Energy ESW-8 (sub) Blu-Ray/DVD Player - PS3 Media Server - Netgear Readynas NV+ Media Streamer - Original Xbox (w/ latest XBox Media Center) Other gaming - Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii

03-27-2009, 05:55 PM	#6
dsimmelink HD/HiFi Overload Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Spokane, WA Age: 29 Posts: 139	Ok... my optical cables came in from monoprice today. (looked VERY good quality from initial examination btw) So I got the cables ready, accessed the back of my Xbox 360... and sat there a minute. There is no optical output on the back of my xbox. I did a little checking and saw that the optical out put is actually on the COMPONENT cable itself. Sooooooooo.... if I want to go the optical cable route then I can't use HDMI at all on my 360?? I'm in the air about this... the 2-channel output glitch only happens sometimes and I think I can fix it by my power-on procedure. So if I do go back to component cables w/ optical for audio, I would be losing some video quality overall right?? Edit: Waiiiiit a minute.... so are they telling me if I want to run optical for my audio then I have to purchase this for 40 more bucks??? If that is the case.... WEAAAAAAK I say. Weak. __________________ HDTV - Vizio XVT 47" 1080P 120hz (SV470XVTV) Receiver - Yamaha RX-V663 Speakers - Energy C-C50 (center), Energy C-300 (fronts), Energy C-50 (surrounds), Energy ESW-8 (sub) Blu-Ray/DVD Player - PS3 Media Server - Netgear Readynas NV+ Media Streamer - Original Xbox (w/ latest XBox Media Center) Other gaming - Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii Last edited by dsimmelink; 03-27-2009 at 06:09 PM.

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03-23-2009, 06:19 PM	#2
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,048	Optical For 360- Used to transport Dolby Digital and dts. Will not carry TrueHD or dts-MA. Since the 360 doesn't support TrueHD or dts-MA, no big deal. IIRC, the 360 will output sound through HDMI and optical. If not, it shouldn't be too hard to find the setting to change. Just look in system settings for digital audio. For PS3- The only benefit is if you are having any audio issues with HDMI. If not, you're all good. For Antenna TV- Use the optical output on your TV. Anything else will get you 2 channel, which may or may not be turned into a PLX stream by the receiver. To put it frankly, just use optical from the TV to get the best audio from your channels. Anything I miss?

03-23-2009, 06:42 PM	#4
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,048	Optical cannot do TrueHD or dts-MA. Well, it could, but the powers that be decided we all have to buy new receivers to use the new audio formats Optical has infinite bandwidth, so it's just a money grabbing tactic. Long story short, the only way to get lossless audio out of a PS3 is with HDMI and audio settings set to PCM.

03-27-2009, 06:40 PM	#7
BIslander Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA Posts: 573	I'm trying to understand your current Xbox audio problem, which I gather was discussed in a different thread. What receiver are you using and how is your Xbox connected for both audio and video?

03-27-2009, 07:08 PM	#9
BIslander Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA Posts: 573	That does sound like an HDMI handshake issue. Sometimes something is telling your Xbox that the attached device only supports stereo. Do you have HDMI audio enabled out of your receiver to your TV? TVs are two channel devices are they are the usual source of these kinds of problems. If the 663 has a setting to disable audio for the HDMI output, that might solve your problem.