Receiver & Sub Question

slclem · 04-26-2007, 09:05 AM

I have a receiver & sub set-up question. First, I have an Onkyo TX-SR500 receiver, Velodyne CHT8 sub and Klipsch Quintet3 speaker system. I have set the crossover on the receiver to120Hz and switched the ‘direct/internal x-over’ switch on the sub to ‘direct’. The frequency response on the 4 satellite speakers is 110Hz-23KHz and120Hz-23KHz for the center speaker. I am not aware of a speaker size setting (small, large) on my receiver. Do I have the crossover setting on the receiver correct and is it best to let the receiver control the crossover by switching the sub to ‘direct’ or do I switch the sub to ‘internal x-over’ and set the sub’s ‘low-pass crossover’ to 120 also? I read comments on the forum about setting speaker sizes on the receiver. Since mine does not have this option, do I need to consider a receiver upgrade? Thanks for your comments.

Moovtune · 04-26-2007, 09:59 AM

The way you have it set sounds correct to me. You'd use the internal crossover of the sub if you were connecting the speakers outs to the sub first and then connecting the outs of the sub to the speakers. It's odd you don't have speaker size selector, but I assume setting the crossover will do the same thing.

RedSIinPA · 04-26-2007, 02:06 PM

I don't disagree with your setup. Except I wouldn't necessarily set the crossover on the receiver to exactly the bottom of your center channel freq response. If I had a 130Hz setting on the receiver, I'd use that. Speakers don't necessarily do a fantastic job all the way down to their lower limit. Other than that, I would let the sub's low pass determine the frequency range it plays and keep your receiver's setting pertaining to that just as you have it now.

daleb · 04-26-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSIinPA

I don't disagree with your setup. Except I wouldn't necessarily set the crossover on the receiver to exactly the bottom of your center channel freq response. If I had a 130Hz setting on the receiver, I'd use that. Speakers don't necessarily do a fantastic job all the way down to their lower limit. Other than that, I would let the sub's low pass determine the frequency range it plays and keep your receiver's setting pertaining to that just as you have it now.

Very true, some overlap is desirable. But man, 130 Hz is getting way up there it seems. Not all subs do that great with the lower midrange either, but not a whole lot choice here.

RedSIinPA · 04-26-2007, 02:37 PM

True...I guess I'd try both and see what sounds better. I think the Velodyne would do better with a higher freq output than the little Klipsch's would do with the low...but only the OP's ears can decide that.

slclem · 04-26-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSIinPA

I don't disagree with your setup. Except I wouldn't necessarily set the crossover on the receiver to exactly the bottom of your center channel freq response. If I had a 130Hz setting on the receiver, I'd use that. Speakers don't necessarily do a fantastic job all the way down to their lower limit. Other than that, I would let the sub's low pass determine the frequency range it plays and keep your receiver's setting pertaining to that just as you have it now.

I have the sub switched to 'direct' which by-passes the sub's internal crossover. The highest crossover setting on my receiver is 120Hz.

RedSIinPA · 04-26-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slclem

I have the sub switched to 'direct' which by-passes the sub's internal crossover. The highest crossover setting on my receiver is 120Hz.

Steve - it seems may have misunderstood the first post's wording.

You said in your first post...

is it best to let the receiver control the crossover by switching the sub to ‘direct’ or do I switch the sub to ‘internal x-over’

By the sounds of it, the switch in on the sub. And you're crossover is a low pass and a high pass. i.e. everything the receiver sends over 120Hz is going to your satellite speakers and everything below is being sent to your sub, and your sub is doing no filtering.

Is that correct? I'm probably a lil confused since I've never used a sub that had a switch that let the receiver determine the the crossover for it. I'm not surprised the receiver is maxing out at 120Hz. I doubt it'll sound much better, but based on your sub's specs, I would at least sample going back to using the sub's internal crossover and setting the low pass a little higher to cover the lows a little bit more. But that's just a suggestion or reason to experiment.
good luck.

slclem · 04-27-2007, 08:48 AM

Honestly, I am confused about low pass and high pass terminology period but I believe your assessment that everything the receiver sends above 120Hz goes to the satellite speakers and everything being fed below is being sent to the sub is correct. Based on the owner’s manual, I switched to ‘Direct’ on the back of the sub in order to by-pass the sub’ s internal x-over since I am using the receiver’s x-over. The manual also indicated I can use both x-overs (receiver and sub) if I find it beneficial to have a steeper crossover slope and it suggested staggering the frequencies (120Hz sub, 80Hz receiver). 80Hz on the receiver just does not sound right to me based on my speaker specs.
When you suggested for me to try different settings like “using the sub’s internal crossover and setting the low pass a little higher to cover the lows and little bit more”, what specific setting are you suggesting for the receiver and sub. Sub low pass adjustment is 40Hz to 120Hz. Receiver crossover adjustment is 80Hz to 120Hz.
Another question, Klipsch indicates the power handling spec. for my center speaker as 75 watts (300 watts peak) and satellite speakers as 50 watts (200 watts peak). My receiver is rated as 65 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Based on the Klipsch spec., does the center speaker need 75 watts or more for best performance? Thanks again for your suggestions and comments.

CDWallace · 04-27-2007, 06:56 PM

IMO, 120 or 130 is still a bit too low. You have to keep in mind, the xover point is where the signal starts to roll off. A lot has to do with the slope of the roll off, which is something you wouldn't know unless you call the manufacture and hope they tell you (the probably won't). If the speaker produces down to 120hz -3db, I would set the receiver xover at least at 150hz or even 180 to 200hz if the sub can handle it. The idea is to keep the response output as flat as possible. So, eliminate the dips or roll off in this case. Set the xover far enough in front of the roll off to deal with it.

IMO, set the xover before the speaker bottoms out or breaks up (peaks and dips)...as a rule of thumb. Then I would integrate the sub and sats from there. Believe it or not, that extra 30 to 80hz buffer room will not only help, but make a difference.

RedSIinPA · 04-28-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDWallace

IMO, 120 or 130 is still a bit too low. You have to keep in mind, the xover point is where the signal starts to roll off. A lot has to do with the slope of the roll off, which is something you wouldn't know unless you call the manufacture and hope they tell you (the probably won't). If the speaker produces down to 120hz -3db, I would set the receiver xover at least at 150hz or even 180 to 200hz if the sub can handle it. The idea is to keep the response output as flat as possible. So, eliminate the dips or roll off in this case. Set the xover far enough in front of the roll off to deal with it.

IMO, set the xover before the speaker bottoms out or breaks up (peaks and dips)...as a rule of thumb. Then I would integrate the sub and sats from there. Believe it or not, that extra 30 to 80hz buffer room will not only help, but make a difference.

But unless I'm missing something, the OP said his max crossover point on his receiver is 120Hz. What we might be insinuating is that the pairing of this particular receiver to these speakers is a less-than-ideal one, but we all have our limitations based on what we purchase. But I think CDWallance's point is very valid concerning the slope. With that said, unless the OP is intending on buying a new receiver or sat speakers, then ya gotta make do with what you have. there could be worse things. You could be using your TV speakers

slclem · 04-28-2007, 10:02 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have decided to purchase another receiver. Unless I could purchase a receiver with HDMI video conversion for $500 or less, I am leaning to an Onkyo TX-SR604 or Yamaha HTR-5960. I know the Yanaha has a full range of crossover settings 40Hz to 200Hz but have not been able to verify this with the Onkyo. What is your opinions regarding these two models? Any suggestions for another good model?

slclem · 05-11-2007, 07:50 AM

Hi Guys! Last weekend I purchased a Yamaha HTR-5960 receiver. I performed an auto setup using the Yamaha YPAO calibration system which includes a mic placed at listening level in the seating area. It set speaker size, volume, etc. using test tones, checked wiring and set crossover. The owners manual suggested I set my sub at a little less than half volume and set the sub crossover to highest setting which is 120Hz, prior to running the auto setup. Auto setup set the receiver crossover at 120Hz. My speakers sound so much better with the Yamaha receiver however I do plan to manually set the receiver crossover at 150Hz or higher tonight as a trial. I guess a question I have is, should I switch my sub to 'internal crossover' or leave it at 'Direct'? I left it on Direct during the auto setup. I guess I will try both ways. Could someone explain just what I wanting to hear so I can listen for the difference. Thanks.

slclem · 05-11-2007, 10:28 AM

Let me add, my Velodyne CHT-8 spec: 8” forward firing, frequency response (35Hz to 140Hz), high pass crossover (passive 85Hz), low pass crossover (40Hz to 120Hz, 12dB octave / 24db ultimate).

04-26-2007, 09:05 AM	#1
slclem High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eads, TN Posts: 81	Receiver & Sub Question I have a receiver & sub set-up question. First, I have an Onkyo TX-SR500 receiver, Velodyne CHT8 sub and Klipsch Quintet3 speaker system. I have set the crossover on the receiver to120Hz and switched the ‘direct/internal x-over’ switch on the sub to ‘direct’. The frequency response on the 4 satellite speakers is 110Hz-23KHz and120Hz-23KHz for the center speaker. I am not aware of a speaker size setting (small, large) on my receiver. Do I have the crossover setting on the receiver correct and is it best to let the receiver control the crossover by switching the sub to ‘direct’ or do I switch the sub to ‘internal x-over’ and set the sub’s ‘low-pass crossover’ to 120 also? I read comments on the forum about setting speaker sizes on the receiver. Since mine does not have this option, do I need to consider a receiver upgrade? Thanks for your comments. __________________ Steve in Eads, TN 38028 VIP722k, 322, D500, D61.5 Hitachi 51F510, Sony Bravia KDL26M3000 Yamaha HTR5960 Klipsch Quintet III MicroSystem Velodyne CHT-8 Sub

04-27-2007, 08:48 AM	#8
slclem High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eads, TN Posts: 81	Honestly, I am confused about low pass and high pass terminology period but I believe your assessment that everything the receiver sends above 120Hz goes to the satellite speakers and everything being fed below is being sent to the sub is correct. Based on the owner’s manual, I switched to ‘Direct’ on the back of the sub in order to by-pass the sub’ s internal x-over since I am using the receiver’s x-over. The manual also indicated I can use both x-overs (receiver and sub) if I find it beneficial to have a steeper crossover slope and it suggested staggering the frequencies (120Hz sub, 80Hz receiver). 80Hz on the receiver just does not sound right to me based on my speaker specs. When you suggested for me to try different settings like “using the sub’s internal crossover and setting the low pass a little higher to cover the lows and little bit more”, what specific setting are you suggesting for the receiver and sub. Sub low pass adjustment is 40Hz to 120Hz. Receiver crossover adjustment is 80Hz to 120Hz. Another question, Klipsch indicates the power handling spec. for my center speaker as 75 watts (300 watts peak) and satellite speakers as 50 watts (200 watts peak). My receiver is rated as 65 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Based on the Klipsch spec., does the center speaker need 75 watts or more for best performance? Thanks again for your suggestions and comments. __________________ Steve in Eads, TN 38028 VIP722k, 322, D500, D61.5 Hitachi 51F510, Sony Bravia KDL26M3000 Yamaha HTR5960 Klipsch Quintet III MicroSystem Velodyne CHT-8 Sub

04-28-2007, 10:02 PM	#11
slclem High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eads, TN Posts: 81	Thanks for all the suggestions. I have decided to purchase another receiver. Unless I could purchase a receiver with HDMI video conversion for $500 or less, I am leaning to an Onkyo TX-SR604 or Yamaha HTR-5960. I know the Yanaha has a full range of crossover settings 40Hz to 200Hz but have not been able to verify this with the Onkyo. What is your opinions regarding these two models? Any suggestions for another good model? __________________ Steve in Eads, TN 38028 VIP722k, 322, D500, D61.5 Hitachi 51F510, Sony Bravia KDL26M3000 Yamaha HTR5960 Klipsch Quintet III MicroSystem Velodyne CHT-8 Sub

05-11-2007, 07:50 AM	#12
slclem High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eads, TN Posts: 81	Hi Guys! Last weekend I purchased a Yamaha HTR-5960 receiver. I performed an auto setup using the Yamaha YPAO calibration system which includes a mic placed at listening level in the seating area. It set speaker size, volume, etc. using test tones, checked wiring and set crossover. The owners manual suggested I set my sub at a little less than half volume and set the sub crossover to highest setting which is 120Hz, prior to running the auto setup. Auto setup set the receiver crossover at 120Hz. My speakers sound so much better with the Yamaha receiver however I do plan to manually set the receiver crossover at 150Hz or higher tonight as a trial. I guess a question I have is, should I switch my sub to 'internal crossover' or leave it at 'Direct'? I left it on Direct during the auto setup. I guess I will try both ways. Could someone explain just what I wanting to hear so I can listen for the difference. Thanks. __________________ Steve in Eads, TN 38028 VIP722k, 322, D500, D61.5 Hitachi 51F510, Sony Bravia KDL26M3000 Yamaha HTR5960 Klipsch Quintet III MicroSystem Velodyne CHT-8 Sub

05-11-2007, 10:28 AM	#13
slclem High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eads, TN Posts: 81	Let me add, my Velodyne CHT-8 spec: 8” forward firing, frequency response (35Hz to 140Hz), high pass crossover (passive 85Hz), low pass crossover (40Hz to 120Hz, 12dB octave / 24db ultimate). __________________ Steve in Eads, TN 38028 VIP722k, 322, D500, D61.5 Hitachi 51F510, Sony Bravia KDL26M3000 Yamaha HTR5960 Klipsch Quintet III MicroSystem Velodyne CHT-8 Sub

04-26-2007, 09:59 AM	#2
Moovtune My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 9	The way you have it set sounds correct to me. You'd use the internal crossover of the sub if you were connecting the speakers outs to the sub first and then connecting the outs of the sub to the speakers. It's odd you don't have speaker size selector, but I assume setting the crossover will do the same thing.

04-26-2007, 02:06 PM	#3
RedSIinPA hd junkie Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Outside Phila. Age: 31 Posts: 899	I don't disagree with your setup. Except I wouldn't necessarily set the crossover on the receiver to exactly the bottom of your center channel freq response. If I had a 130Hz setting on the receiver, I'd use that. Speakers don't necessarily do a fantastic job all the way down to their lower limit. Other than that, I would let the sub's low pass determine the frequency range it plays and keep your receiver's setting pertaining to that just as you have it now.

04-26-2007, 02:37 PM	#5
RedSIinPA hd junkie Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Outside Phila. Age: 31 Posts: 899	True...I guess I'd try both and see what sounds better. I think the Velodyne would do better with a higher freq output than the little Klipsch's would do with the low...but only the OP's ears can decide that.

04-27-2007, 06:56 PM	#9
CDWallace Pursuer of HD Truth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hyattsville, MD Posts: 56	IMO, 120 or 130 is still a bit too low. You have to keep in mind, the xover point is where the signal starts to roll off. A lot has to do with the slope of the roll off, which is something you wouldn't know unless you call the manufacture and hope they tell you (the probably won't). If the speaker produces down to 120hz -3db, I would set the receiver xover at least at 150hz or even 180 to 200hz if the sub can handle it. The idea is to keep the response output as flat as possible. So, eliminate the dips or roll off in this case. Set the xover far enough in front of the roll off to deal with it. IMO, set the xover before the speaker bottoms out or breaks up (peaks and dips)...as a rule of thumb. Then I would integrate the sub and sats from there. Believe it or not, that extra 30 to 80hz buffer room will not only help, but make a difference.

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