Are Bose Speakers worth the money???

erok72 · 01-29-2005, 02:16 PM

Teddysjam,

Without the Acoustimass bass module (Bose's name for their subwoofers), the 5 tiny cubes are good for paperweights. Since each of those cubes contains a 3 1/2" driver, they really aren't good for much in terms of producing sounds you want to hear.

The way the cube set-ups work is all the speaker connections from the receiver go into the subwoofer and from the subwoofer to the cubes. The trick is that contained within the subwoofer is where the Bose "magic" happens. The circuits only allow certain frequencies to reach the cubes and then it takes the rest of the sound, filters that (as the Bose sub only contains a 5" or 6 1/2" driver) and makes what I call, midrange.... It doesn't come any where near making "good" bass.
The powered Bose systems fair a little better and the bass is better, and for the size of the cubes, it's amazing the sound that you can get out of them, but there are better choices. Bose is really, really good at marketing!

My suggestion is to forgo the Bose. Go to a real A/V store (But not a Best Buy of Circuit City) and audition bookshelf speakers and subwoofers. Bring your own CDs (originals and not MP3 compilations)and pick out tracks that you know well. Use these as your reference songs and judge each speaker you listen to.

mak dogg · 01-30-2005, 09:43 PM

You cannot buy just the cubes and then the subwoofer, the subwoofer is where the cross overs are located. so unless u plan on buying caps or blowing the heck out of the cubes u need the sub. im not sure if u were buyin at the same time, jus thought id let u know.

Ricard · 02-05-2005, 07:03 AM

No High's.....No Low's......It's gotta be BOSE!!!!

mcguiness · 02-06-2005, 02:14 PM

I have follwed this thread, but I would really appreciate you guys clearing something up for me. I have an Acoustimass 5 Series II stereo speaker system (a big Acoustimass bass thing and two little swivel box speakers) and I want to use some of these bits in my new home cinema. But now I am begining to think they will all be useless, because the Acoustimas only has two inputs (left and right) whereas my amp/receiver is going to have five outputs, and I won't be able to use the little swivel cube speakers because they can't be connected directly to my new amp/receiver only through the (useless?) Acoustimass. Am I right here? Would much appreciate any advice you have.

Paul

**rbinck** · 02-06-2005, 04:05 PM

Some people will say that you can hook the cube speakers directly to your amplifier, and while you can do that it is somewhat risky. The Bose Acoustimass bass module has the crossovers built into them. Now the main purpose of a crossover is to channel the different frequencies to the different speakers, but it also divides the power.

Here is the deal. The higher the frequency the less power is required at the speakers for the same sound level. Bass frequencies require more power than the mid range frequencies which require more power than the high frequencies. The crossover by its nature therefore will restrict the power feed to the higher frequencies.

The Bose cubes are mid range and high frequency speakers. They are not capable of reproducing bass frequencies, but without a crossover there would not be anything to keep the bass frequency power out of the speaker and that power can ruin the cubes.

Your Acoustimass system is probably a non powered sub woofer where the stereo speaker inputs drive the woofer. The current Acoustimass systems have a powered subwoofer and 5 or 6 speaker inputs with 5 or 6 speaker outputs. The Accoustimass module has 5 or 6 crossovers to limit the low frequencies and power to the cubes. The 5 or 6 depends on the model you buy.

So if you were to get or build your own crossovers for the additional cubes, you could make it work. I'd think you would be better off using your existing cubes for your surround speakers and getting some full range speakers for the front left-center-right. With the addition of a subwoofer amp for your base module, you be good to go. Of course you could start over and move the Bose to the bedroom as well.

Wimmig · 02-06-2005, 06:46 PM

Bose audio products are not worth the money the below article will assist you in understanding this.

You are best going with a real audio company, something like Bang & Olufsen.

Quote:

The problem with Bose

written by Mike Shea on 2 July 2003

The cost of a Bose Lifestyle 50 home theater system is $3500. The cost of a Onkyo TX-SR 800 THX receiver and a Boston Acoustics System 9000 speaker package is $1800. The Onkyo / Boston system has similar speaker sizes, more accurate sound, and costs $1700 less. There is no advantage to the Bose Lifestyle 50.

Bose Acoustimass, Lifestyle, and 3-2-1 systems are expensive, inaccurate, and low quality. Better sounding home theater systems can be purchased for less money.
High Cost

A two speaker Bose Acoustimass 5 system costs $500 compared to highly rated and more accurate B&W 303 speakers running $250 a pair. The cost of Bose systems are often twice to five times higher than systems of greater sound quality. There is no statistical, ergonomic, or product quality advantage to the Bose systems.
Inaccuracy

The frequency range of a high quality home theater system should be 20Hz to 20,000Hz with less than + or - 3dB fluctuation in volume level and be able to output 105dB during loud peaks. DVDs and CDs are produced in mixing environments that match these specifications and THX uses these specifications for the certification of home theater equipment and environments. Bose Acoustimass speakers are only able to produce sound from 46Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. Bose Acoustimass, Lifestyle, and 3-2-1 systems are not able to meet standard specifications expected by DVD sound producers.

Because of a frequency gap between the bass module and the cube speaker, Bose Acoustimass speakers lose all sound material from 200 to 280Hz, often the frequency range of a human voice. Because the bass module has frequencies as high as 200hz, a user is able to pick out the location of the bass module within a room. The Bose bass module is unable to reproduce frequency ranges below 46Hz while DVDs have bass down to 20hz.

The Bose Acoustimass cube speaker has a frequency range of 280Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. Compare this to the 72Hz to 20kHz at + or - 3dB of the B&W DM303 bookshelf speaker. The removal of high frequency ranges will result in a loss of accuracy in DVD and CD material. The large 10dB fluctuation in frequency accuracy results in inaccurate sounds between 280Hz and 13kHz resulting in sound being louder or softer than the original recording.

The Bose Acoustimass bass module and cube speaker remove 1/4th of the sound originally presented by DVDs and CDs. The remaining 3/4ths is presented with a high degree of error, up to 10dB louder or softer than originally recorded.

Bose employs a direct / reflecting design that supposedly creates a larger sound stage by reflecting sound off of side walls. Movie theaters, recording studios, and professional home theater installations attempt to reduce or remove side wall reflections because they create sound where none was intended. Clap your hands in a movie theater and you will not hear the echo from the side walls. Bose's reflective design creates an inaccurate sound stage that was not originally intended with the source recording, and promotes the installation of a home theater in an unideal listening environment.
Bose Marketing, Why Does Bose Sound Good?

The engineering behind Bose speakers is designed to play to the sounds the human ear hears best. Through acoustical wizardry, Bose is able to create the illusion of accurate and full range sound. Bose cube-based speakers remove the advantages of proper sound editing by purposefully changing the sound of original source material.

This illusion of "rich sound" is fed by the physical size of the speakers as well. The hidden bass module helps produce low frequency sound while the listener only sees small speakers. This creates the "small speakers, big sound" response that Bose has built their company upon. This does not change the fact that Bose speakers are not accurately reproducing music or movie soundtracks.

The cost of Bose is another part of the illusion. By attaching a high price tag, Bose creates an exclusive mystique to their product. Many consumers who have not seen the full range of speaker selections consider Bose "high end". The high price of Bose products actually helps their marketing.

Through the use of high priced marketing, wide availability, and sales promotions, Bose has built a massive market for their speakers. While word of mouth among consumers is often favorable, many owners have negative feedback. The $1300 Bose Acoustimass 15 speaker package has received a rating of 2.54 out of 5 averaged from over three hundred consumer reviews from Audio Review. In comparison, the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 loudspeaker received a rating of 4.97 out of 5 in fifty nine consumer reviews. A full Ascend Acoustics home theater speaker package costs $1308.

Bose does not publish frequency ranges, accuracy, distortion levels, or power output for the Lifestyle or Acoustimass systems in their instructions, brochures, or website. Bose sued Consumer Reports for faulty testing procedures for an unfavorable report.

Instead of describing compatibility with Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS audio decoding standards, the Lifestyle system reports that it is "Digital 5.1 compatible". While higher priced Bose Lifestyle systems supposedly include native Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS decoding, they do not discuss it on their website. Bose product descriptions for specifications and decoding compatibility do not follow the industry standard format used by hundreds of other audio manufacturers.

The following table describes Bose Acoustimass products alongside comparable speaker packages. Review statistics are courtesy of Audioreview.com. Product specifications are from the product web page or in the Acoustimass example from Sound and Vision, August 1999.

mcguiness · 02-07-2005, 12:47 AM

Many thanks rbinck and Wimmig. I think building new crossovers is a bit beyond my capabilities, and I don't have the time to learn right now. The best solution will be to find a new home for the old Bose kit (but not the bedroom) and save my pennies for something new.

Paul

CurtP · 02-14-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricard

No High's.....No Low's......It's gotta be BOSE!!!!

Actually, the complaint about Bose seems to be a lacking mid-frequency range. Probably more accurate to say "nothing but highs and lows, it must be Bose", but I'm sure it would be lost in translation to the general public

I'm actually on my second Bose system. The first was a Lifestyle 12 Series 1 that I bought while in port in the Med at a local NEX (Navy Exchange - I was in the Navy at the time aboard an Aegis cruiser; the USS Normandy (CG-60)). I bought it at 10% over cost through my ship which made it pretty inexpensive. My second (and current) system is a Lifestyle 25 that we got for $80 (yes, I said $80) through my GF's work (it was free, but we had to pay taxes on it). I was even able to sell my old LS12S1 system on eBay for close to what I paid for it years earlier! Considering that our house is small and space is at a premium, Bose is about the only choice for us - seriously. While I don't think that Bose is utter crap, it is seriously overpriced and overhyped. It has taken me a *LONG* time to get it set up properly and it sounds good; much better than most of the other Bose systems we hear at other people's houses. I attribute the better sound to the time I've spent putting the speakers in the right place pointing in the right direction. One thing that I've done is replace the Acoustimass speakers with the Jewel Cubes that I bought on eBay. The two on the wall are white and the three that sit on top of the TV are black; all of them just about disappear which makes the SO happy. To me, Bose is good for basic HT, but not for listening to music. If I had the space I'd be all over Klipsch Klassic speakers and Denon equipment. Maybe in the next house...

marcs23 · 03-12-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

I can't tell you whether Bose speakers are worth the money for you or not. Myself, I think they are just ok. There are better sounding speakers and if you have a big room, they leave a bit to be desired.

BUT ( and this is a big but)

Women love them! And because of that, I love them too. We put the little buggers in and they virtually disappear into the decor. And because women love them, their men love them too.

ROTFLMAO...so much for "BIGGER is better".

Was extremely interested in this thread since I just hooked up Bose Accoustamas 16 speaker system. The major reason we chose Bose - the beloved wifey mandated small speakers which could be 'hidden". I'd always liked the looks and sound of Bose so I did what any good American hubby should do, caved in to wifeys demands!

marcs23 · 03-14-2005, 12:52 AM

As a follow up, I'm now considering returnin' the Bose and tryin' out the ORB speakers (orbaudio.com). As I noted in a previous thread, I serious considered gettin' these bad boys but the interest free program with Bose sealed the deal. However, the more and more I look at these Orbs, again, the more I want ‘em….and still meet wifeys “small” criteria.

**rbinck** · 03-14-2005, 08:18 AM

As a followup to your follow up. I went to an Artcoustics seminar the other day and they have a very high end speaker line that is very decor friendly. Some of the speakers look like paintings and they can screen your atrwork on them if desired.

They are Dainish speakers that use their own cabinet designs which allow for a very thin cabinet, almost like electrostatic speakers. Check them out at www.artcoustics.com. If you can swing the $, the wife will love them as they can be moulded into just about any decor.

Some of the models can be recessed mounted in a wall so that only the frame is exposed, but the larger sizes will require a framed cutout as they are wider than the space between studs.

marcs23 · 03-14-2005, 03:51 PM

WOW! Thanx for the info...however, key word, "If you can swing the $"

**rbinck** · 03-14-2005, 08:38 PM

Well, some wives are high maintenance! That's why these guys are in business!

Akira · 03-15-2005, 10:45 PM

Bose are the joke of the industry.
You don't have to be a pro sound engineer to know that. My 16 year old nephew let his uneducated ears confirm they suck!!!
Most of the comments I've read in this thread are absoutley true...so now I don't have to repeat it.

hidog1 · 03-17-2005, 04:47 PM

I just unloaded a LS 12 Bose system that I had for 7 years. I used it for HT and music and it was fine....until I heard really good component based equipment. You can do much better than Bose sound quality by listening to your music and movies at one of the many good AV stores listening rooms on some good component equipment. If Bose were cheaper then maybe but it is not cheaper. It is in fact more expensive and very proprietary (ever try to hookup other components to a Bose system....you can't. Do a little research, I did and I'm really happy I did. Bose is Audio for dummies.

01-29-2005, 02:16 PM	#16
erok72 Std. Def? What's that? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 28	You need the Acoustimass bass module...... Teddysjam, Without the Acoustimass bass module (Bose's name for their subwoofers), the 5 tiny cubes are good for paperweights. Since each of those cubes contains a 3 1/2" driver, they really aren't good for much in terms of producing sounds you want to hear. The way the cube set-ups work is all the speaker connections from the receiver go into the subwoofer and from the subwoofer to the cubes. The trick is that contained within the subwoofer is where the Bose "magic" happens. The circuits only allow certain frequencies to reach the cubes and then it takes the rest of the sound, filters that (as the Bose sub only contains a 5" or 6 1/2" driver) and makes what I call, midrange.... It doesn't come any where near making "good" bass. The powered Bose systems fair a little better and the bass is better, and for the size of the cubes, it's amazing the sound that you can get out of them, but there are better choices. Bose is really, really good at marketing! My suggestion is to forgo the Bose. Go to a real A/V store (But not a Best Buy of Circuit City) and audition bookshelf speakers and subwoofers. Bring your own CDs (originals and not MP3 compilations)and pick out tracks that you know well. Use these as your reference songs and judge each speaker you listen to.

01-30-2005, 09:43 PM	#17
mak dogg Cedia Installer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto Age: 25 Posts: 6	You cannot buy just the cubes and then the subwoofer, the subwoofer is where the cross overs are located. so unless u plan on buying caps or blowing the heck out of the cubes u need the sub. im not sure if u were buyin at the same time, jus thought id let u know. Last edited by Micmax; 01-31-2005 at 11:18 PM.

02-07-2005, 12:47 AM	#22
mcguiness What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	Many thanks rbinck and Wimmig. I think building new crossovers is a bit beyond my capabilities, and I don't have the time to learn right now. The best solution will be to find a new home for the old Bose kit (but not the bedroom) and save my pennies for something new. Paul Last edited by mcguiness; 02-07-2005 at 12:50 AM.

03-14-2005, 12:52 AM	#25
marcs23 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 34	As a follow up, I'm now considering returnin' the Bose and tryin' out the ORB speakers (orbaudio.com). As I noted in a previous thread, I serious considered gettin' these bad boys but the interest free program with Bose sealed the deal. However, the more and more I look at these Orbs, again, the more I want ‘em….and still meet wifeys “small” criteria. Last edited by marcs23; 03-14-2005 at 01:01 AM.

03-15-2005, 10:45 PM	#29
Akira audiophile? whats that! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 61	pro engineer's point of view... Bose are the joke of the industry. You don't have to be a pro sound engineer to know that. My 16 year old nephew let his uneducated ears confirm they suck!!! Most of the comments I've read in this thread are absoutley true...so now I don't have to repeat it.

02-05-2005, 07:03 AM	#18
Ricard How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 26	No High's.....No Low's......It's gotta be BOSE!!!!

02-06-2005, 02:14 PM	#19
mcguiness What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	I have follwed this thread, but I would really appreciate you guys clearing something up for me. I have an Acoustimass 5 Series II stereo speaker system (a big Acoustimass bass thing and two little swivel box speakers) and I want to use some of these bits in my new home cinema. But now I am begining to think they will all be useless, because the Acoustimas only has two inputs (left and right) whereas my amp/receiver is going to have five outputs, and I won't be able to use the little swivel cube speakers because they can't be connected directly to my new amp/receiver only through the (useless?) Acoustimass. Am I right here? Would much appreciate any advice you have. Paul

02-06-2005, 04:05 PM	#20
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	Some people will say that you can hook the cube speakers directly to your amplifier, and while you can do that it is somewhat risky. The Bose Acoustimass bass module has the crossovers built into them. Now the main purpose of a crossover is to channel the different frequencies to the different speakers, but it also divides the power. Here is the deal. The higher the frequency the less power is required at the speakers for the same sound level. Bass frequencies require more power than the mid range frequencies which require more power than the high frequencies. The crossover by its nature therefore will restrict the power feed to the higher frequencies. The Bose cubes are mid range and high frequency speakers. They are not capable of reproducing bass frequencies, but without a crossover there would not be anything to keep the bass frequency power out of the speaker and that power can ruin the cubes. Your Acoustimass system is probably a non powered sub woofer where the stereo speaker inputs drive the woofer. The current Acoustimass systems have a powered subwoofer and 5 or 6 speaker inputs with 5 or 6 speaker outputs. The Accoustimass module has 5 or 6 crossovers to limit the low frequencies and power to the cubes. The 5 or 6 depends on the model you buy. So if you were to get or build your own crossovers for the additional cubes, you could make it work. I'd think you would be better off using your existing cubes for your surround speakers and getting some full range speakers for the front left-center-right. With the addition of a subwoofer amp for your base module, you be good to go. Of course you could start over and move the Bose to the bedroom as well.

03-14-2005, 08:18 AM	#26
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	As a followup to your follow up. I went to an Artcoustics seminar the other day and they have a very high end speaker line that is very decor friendly. Some of the speakers look like paintings and they can screen your atrwork on them if desired. They are Dainish speakers that use their own cabinet designs which allow for a very thin cabinet, almost like electrostatic speakers. Check them out at www.artcoustics.com. If you can swing the $, the wife will love them as they can be moulded into just about any decor. Some of the models can be recessed mounted in a wall so that only the frame is exposed, but the larger sizes will require a framed cutout as they are wider than the space between studs.

03-14-2005, 03:51 PM	#27
marcs23 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 34	WOW! Thanx for the info...however, key word, "If you can swing the $"

03-14-2005, 08:38 PM	#28
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	Well, some wives are high maintenance! That's why these guys are in business!

03-17-2005, 04:47 PM	#30
hidog1 High Def SAP Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: No. Calif. Posts: 39	No Mo Bose Fo Me I just unloaded a LS 12 Bose system that I had for 7 years. I used it for HT and music and it was fine....until I heard really good component based equipment. You can do much better than Bose sound quality by listening to your music and movies at one of the many good AV stores listening rooms on some good component equipment. If Bose were cheaper then maybe but it is not cheaper. It is in fact more expensive and very proprietary (ever try to hookup other components to a Bose system....you can't. Do a little research, I did and I'm really happy I did. Bose is Audio for dummies.