Old fogey needs smart young people's advice

mano · 11-07-2009, 04:15 PM

I'm a former audiophile (Thiel, Aragon, etc) who lost most of his hearing but need news components for my first HDTV.

Room is 13 w x 15 d with a 52" - 55" LCD, probably a Sony Bravia v or xbr (they both look the same to me: great!) but when I took down my old system I realized the Kenwood with Dolby Pro-logic wouldn't cut it anymore. My college age kids like to come home and enjoy a movie and I'd like other guests to get maximum enjoyment out of the system.

Clearly, I need a new receiver preferably 5.1 and under $500. The Denon 1610 seems to be getting a lot of good reviews for that price, but I'm open to other suggestions if I don't need to spend more.

Right now I have passable rear and middle speakers and the two front speakers are Musical Fidelity MC4's, which cost about $1500 20 years ago but would now go for no more than $200 on ebay. They're in great shape, can be biwired, still sound wonderful (nice imaging, etc.) and I have good stands to go with them. Don't have a sub woofer.

All that being said, I'm open to getting all new speakers but would like to keep the receiver/speaker package under $800.

What do you recommend either as a bundle or separates?

Edited to add: Crap! Do I need a Blu-ray device? I have a dvd player that's about 2 years old and works just fine. I'd rather keep it until it dies and then get the blu ray.

oblioman · 11-07-2009, 05:46 PM

You would also need a center channel speaker. The Onkyo HT-S6200 is highly regarded and right in your price range - http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...ss=Systems&p=i and you would have enough left over to get a bd player.

mytime · 11-07-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

you would also need a center channel speaker. The onkyo ht-s6200 is highly regarded and right in your price range - http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...ss=systems&p=i and you would have enough left over to get a bd player.

+1.

Pycroft · 11-07-2009, 06:13 PM

No Way in Hell would I buy an Onkyo HTIV and use those speakers over the speakers you have. Vintage is in no way bad. The Onkyo speakers are fine for a HTIB, and for people with no experience with real speakers. Since you have real speakers, I would build a system around them, and spend the money on the receiver. For less than 400 bucks I bought a refurbished Harman Kardon HK 354 receiver from the authorized dealer on ebay, and it comes with a one year warranty. I think it's a very good avr with a very warm sound, and matches very well with my speakers. If you want to look for other brands, accessories4less.com has Onkyo, and Marantz refurbished. The Denon 1610 is a nice piece, but I think you could do better with a refurbished HK or Onkyo from the above websites.

mano · 11-07-2009, 08:04 PM

Oblioman, and mytime, after reading about the Onkyo HT-S6200 a few days ago I checked it out and wondered if 7.1 is overkill for my size room, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm fine with it if it substantially adds to the theater sound experience. FWIW, due to medical issues (not old age) I have significant hearing loss, so the benefit of any good AV sound is for my family and friends who want good sound but don't know from audiophile gear.

I should also add that when it comes to most any current audio technology I'm a complete idiot. I know THX but have no idea what HDMI and most other stuff is.

The Musical Fidelity speakers are the real deal (a speaker from 1989 is vintage?

) and I'm fine building a system around them, adding a sub, a better center speaker and rear speakers (like I said, I already have them, but they're about 12-15 years old).

Pycroft, I'm assuming you're recommending a refurbished HK or Onkyo so I'll get more bang for the buck. If that's the case, are there any other models you'd recommend? Accessories for less has some nice stuff! The Marantz Sr5002 caught my eye for $320. I'll research it, but anyone know anything about it?

Pycroft · 11-07-2009, 10:39 PM

I've got some nice vintage polks that I am still building a system around and they sound GREAT! I think building a system around those would work well. I know about Onkyo, Denon, and HK mostly. If you're looking for refurbished check the Ebay store for HK, Accessories4less.com for Marantz and Onkyo. I don't believe Pioneer Elite (Also a fine receiver) has a refurbished store. Denon does (Can't remember, but I found it from here). You can easily go to the denon homepage and find online dealers. I didn't find much quality stuff there. If you are doing JUST home theatre, I'd say sticking with Onkyo is a fine choice. I think Marantz and HK are very musical as well, which was what I was looking for. I was very unhappy using Onkyo for music use (Had a lower end Onkyo in all fairness). I am VERY happy with my HK 354, but have heard other receivers that equal it. I think it's a GREAT bang for the buck though.

Pycroft

Loves2Watch · 11-08-2009, 08:15 AM

I would recommend this for a receiver - http://www.accessories4less.com/make...e-Ship-/1.html that would more than adequately fire up those bad boy speakers you have then just add a center channel.

Hope this helps.

oblioman · 11-08-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mano

Oblioman, and mytime, after reading about the Onkyo HT-S6200 a few days ago I checked it out and wondered if 7.1 is overkill for my size room, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm fine with it if it substantially adds to the theater sound experience. FWIW, due to medical issues (not old age) I have significant hearing loss, so the benefit of any good AV sound is for my family and friends who want good sound but don't know from audiophile gear.

I should also add that when it comes to most any current audio technology I'm a complete idiot. I know THX but have no idea what HDMI and most other stuff is.

The Musical Fidelity speakers are the real deal (a speaker from 1989 is vintage?

) and I'm fine building a system around them, adding a sub, a better center speaker and rear speakers (like I said, I already have them, but they're about 12-15 years old).

Pycroft, I'm assuming you're recommending a refurbished HK or Onkyo so I'll get more bang for the buck. If that's the case, are there any other models you'd recommend? Accessories for less has some nice stuff! The Marantz Sr5002 caught my eye for $320. I'll research it, but anyone know anything about it?

Don't be overly concerned about the 7.1 specs. If you wish not to use 7.1,,you simply don't hook up the extra speakers needed. As for the MC4's, absolutely nothing wrong with them (would love a set me self). Me take on it is that you wish for a surround sound system that takes advantage of today's codecs (lossless sound) and still stay within budget. Instead of buying a separate receiver, sub, and center channel, the Onkyo HT S-6200 would give you the most bang for your buck in me opinion. All matched.

The receiver that Loves2Watch posted would be a most excellent power source for the MC4's and would more than likely add a new dimension to the speakers that you have never heard before. But since you stated that you will be using the system for the kids and friends to come home on weekends, you probably are not looking to blow them out of the room, but rather blow them away with a sweet discreetness and still deliver the oomph when needed. However, the receiver that comes with the HT-S6200 has one downfall - it does not have powered zone 2 capabilities. Zone 2 capability simply means that one can listen to 2 separate sources through the same receiver (i.e. MC4's in separate room).

mano · 11-08-2009, 12:19 PM

Thanks for the input everyone.

As appealing as a complete system is, I'm going to buy a decent receiver and a subwoofer as I have everything else for 5.1. I'd like to save money by only getting a 5.1 but 7.1 are almost the same price. Also, it seems I don't need the latest technology so the Onkyo Tx-sr606 will probably be what I get.

Still need advice for a subwoofer. Is a powered sub the way to go?

Pycroft · 11-08-2009, 02:06 PM

Powered sub all the way...what's the sub budget if you get the 606?

mano · 11-08-2009, 03:00 PM

Does $200 sound reasonable? A place called The Speaker Company has one for that price at 20% off and no shipping.

oblioman · 11-08-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mano

Does $200 sound reasonable? A place called The Speaker Company has one for that price at 20% off and no shipping.

For a few more bucks, the Onkyo 607 offers PLII z where the 606 does not. Either way, both are good receivers. And as Pycroft said,,,a powered sub all the way. What branding does the one have that you be looking at??

mano · 11-08-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

For a few more bucks, the Onkyo 607 offers PLII z where the 606 does not. Either way, both are good receivers. And as Pycroft said,,,a powered sub all the way. What branding does the one have that you be looking at??

I checked out PLIIz on Cnet and their video and written review said it didn't add much to the sound, but if you've heard a difference then I'll spring for the extra $30.

The sub is made by The Speaker Company:

http://www.thespeakercompany.com/Subwoofers-C17.aspx

The 250 model is here:
http://www.thespeakercompany.com/T25...r-P103C17.aspx

Do a google search and TSC is owned by the parent company of Denon and other mid-level AV components.

oblioman · 11-08-2009, 05:06 PM

The PLIIz codec add's an extra dimension, a higher fill in that accompanies something such as rain, or a bird flying across the room. You may not need or want it today, but for an extra $30 bucks,,,not bad to be a bit future proofed. Who knows whats around the corner. As for the sub,,,is there a chance that you can hear it in action? The reviews on the 250 are raving (plus it has separate controls) and the price is not bad. Go for it and please let us know what you think!! and remember, for all your cabling needs, monoprice.com is the place to go.

Pycroft · 11-08-2009, 05:09 PM

I was able to get a decent sub used for 200 bucks on Audiogon. You may want to keep your eyes out there. I haven't heard the subs you linked.

11-07-2009, 04:15 PM	#1
mano How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	Old fogey needs smart young people's advice I'm a former audiophile (Thiel, Aragon, etc) who lost most of his hearing but need news components for my first HDTV. Room is 13 w x 15 d with a 52" - 55" LCD, probably a Sony Bravia v or xbr (they both look the same to me: great!) but when I took down my old system I realized the Kenwood with Dolby Pro-logic wouldn't cut it anymore. My college age kids like to come home and enjoy a movie and I'd like other guests to get maximum enjoyment out of the system. Clearly, I need a new receiver preferably 5.1 and under $500. The Denon 1610 seems to be getting a lot of good reviews for that price, but I'm open to other suggestions if I don't need to spend more. Right now I have passable rear and middle speakers and the two front speakers are Musical Fidelity MC4's, which cost about $1500 20 years ago but would now go for no more than $200 on ebay. They're in great shape, can be biwired, still sound wonderful (nice imaging, etc.) and I have good stands to go with them. Don't have a sub woofer. All that being said, I'm open to getting all new speakers but would like to keep the receiver/speaker package under $800. What do you recommend either as a bundle or separates? Edited to add: Crap! Do I need a Blu-ray device? I have a dvd player that's about 2 years old and works just fine. I'd rather keep it until it dies and then get the blu ray. Last edited by mano; 11-08-2009 at 10:07 AM.

11-07-2009, 08:04 PM	#5
mano How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	Oblioman, and mytime, after reading about the Onkyo HT-S6200 a few days ago I checked it out and wondered if 7.1 is overkill for my size room, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm fine with it if it substantially adds to the theater sound experience. FWIW, due to medical issues (not old age) I have significant hearing loss, so the benefit of any good AV sound is for my family and friends who want good sound but don't know from audiophile gear. I should also add that when it comes to most any current audio technology I'm a complete idiot. I know THX but have no idea what HDMI and most other stuff is. The Musical Fidelity speakers are the real deal (a speaker from 1989 is vintage? ) and I'm fine building a system around them, adding a sub, a better center speaker and rear speakers (like I said, I already have them, but they're about 12-15 years old). Pycroft, I'm assuming you're recommending a refurbished HK or Onkyo so I'll get more bang for the buck. If that's the case, are there any other models you'd recommend? Accessories for less has some nice stuff! The Marantz Sr5002 caught my eye for $320. I'll research it, but anyone know anything about it? Last edited by mano; 11-07-2009 at 08:39 PM.

11-08-2009, 08:15 AM	#7
Loves2Watch SPAM Police Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: AZ, NM, TX, MX Posts: 13,940	I would recommend this for a receiver - http://www.accessories4less.com/make...e-Ship-/1.html that would more than adequately fire up those bad boy speakers you have then just add a center channel. Hope this helps. __________________ Theater 1 - Panasonic TH-85PF12U Plasma TV, 6 Conrad Johnson LP275M Amps, Anthem Statement D-2 Pre/Pro, 6 Thiel SCS4 Speakers, 2 REL T-1 Subs, Infinity Interlude 120S Sub, Simaudio MOON Orbiter Universal Disc Player, ELP Laser Turntable, 2 Dish Network ViP 622 DVR's, Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player, Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player. Friends don't let friends buy Korean brand TV's.

11-08-2009, 12:19 PM	#9
mano How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	Thanks for the input everyone. As appealing as a complete system is, I'm going to buy a decent receiver and a subwoofer as I have everything else for 5.1. I'd like to save money by only getting a 5.1 but 7.1 are almost the same price. Also, it seems I don't need the latest technology so the Onkyo Tx-sr606 will probably be what I get. Still need advice for a subwoofer. Is a powered sub the way to go? Last edited by mano; 11-08-2009 at 12:33 PM.

11-08-2009, 05:06 PM	#14
oblioman OTIS,,me hero Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Someville TN Posts: 4,558	The PLIIz codec add's an extra dimension, a higher fill in that accompanies something such as rain, or a bird flying across the room. You may not need or want it today, but for an extra $30 bucks,,,not bad to be a bit future proofed. Who knows whats around the corner. As for the sub,,,is there a chance that you can hear it in action? The reviews on the 250 are raving (plus it has separate controls) and the price is not bad. Go for it and please let us know what you think!! and remember, for all your cabling needs, monoprice.com is the place to go. Last edited by oblioman; 11-08-2009 at 05:12 PM.

11-07-2009, 05:46 PM	#2
oblioman OTIS,,me hero Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Someville TN Posts: 4,558	You would also need a center channel speaker. The Onkyo HT-S6200 is highly regarded and right in your price range - http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...ss=Systems&p=i and you would have enough left over to get a bd player.

11-07-2009, 06:13 PM	#4
Pycroft High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 227	No Way in Hell would I buy an Onkyo HTIV and use those speakers over the speakers you have. Vintage is in no way bad. The Onkyo speakers are fine for a HTIB, and for people with no experience with real speakers. Since you have real speakers, I would build a system around them, and spend the money on the receiver. For less than 400 bucks I bought a refurbished Harman Kardon HK 354 receiver from the authorized dealer on ebay, and it comes with a one year warranty. I think it's a very good avr with a very warm sound, and matches very well with my speakers. If you want to look for other brands, accessories4less.com has Onkyo, and Marantz refurbished. The Denon 1610 is a nice piece, but I think you could do better with a refurbished HK or Onkyo from the above websites.

11-07-2009, 10:39 PM	#6
Pycroft High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 227	I've got some nice vintage polks that I am still building a system around and they sound GREAT! I think building a system around those would work well. I know about Onkyo, Denon, and HK mostly. If you're looking for refurbished check the Ebay store for HK, Accessories4less.com for Marantz and Onkyo. I don't believe Pioneer Elite (Also a fine receiver) has a refurbished store. Denon does (Can't remember, but I found it from here). You can easily go to the denon homepage and find online dealers. I didn't find much quality stuff there. If you are doing JUST home theatre, I'd say sticking with Onkyo is a fine choice. I think Marantz and HK are very musical as well, which was what I was looking for. I was very unhappy using Onkyo for music use (Had a lower end Onkyo in all fairness). I am VERY happy with my HK 354, but have heard other receivers that equal it. I think it's a GREAT bang for the buck though. Pycroft

11-08-2009, 02:06 PM	#10
Pycroft High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 227	Powered sub all the way...what's the sub budget if you get the 606?

11-08-2009, 03:00 PM	#11
mano How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	Does $200 sound reasonable? A place called The Speaker Company has one for that price at 20% off and no shipping.

11-08-2009, 05:09 PM	#15
Pycroft High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 227	I was able to get a decent sub used for 200 bucks on Audiogon. You may want to keep your eyes out there. I haven't heard the subs you linked.