Anyone knows any DVD Ripper?

Loves2Watch

And that's it. The act of copying a DVD itself is not illegal it it the act of removing the copyright/content protection that is illegal. And it is illegal for ALL end users.

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rbinck

I have no quarrel with most of what you say JustEd. Just to review the post that got all of this discussion started:See the issue I was responding to was whether it is illegal to rip a CD or DVD to store on a hard drive. That in itself is clearly not deemed illegal by the judge or the manufacturers that make such systems. Drilling down on the issue it matters whether in the course of ripping the media the copy protection is circumvented or not. Thus the ruling by the judge fully supports the notion that a disc does not need to be present. With the system examples I offered any protection schemes are kept intact and if HDCP is required for output by the source disc, then it will be required by the copied ripped files.

I also have no quarel with the original statement L2W makes because, "Ripping of DVD's, that is removing content/copyright protection is illegal in the United States," is indeed illegal. Note the bold text qualifies the illegality to the removal of protection.

What appeared to happen is L2W assumes that ripping also includes the removal of copyright protection automatically. This is where the gray area comes in. How are you able to copy the disc to a hard drive without circumventing the copy protection? The systems I showed which are considered legal products, at least to date, say that is allowed due to the spirit of the law was in tact.

Those systems that were deemed illegal must have not met the spirit of the law.

I maintain as long as there are products sold openly in the US that allow the consolidation of multiple DVDs on a media server and supply software to allow the user to do the ripping, these are legal products.

Now moving to the next level, products like ShrinkDVD are in my mind probably illegal under the current law and I think that's what L2W meant to focus on. I have no problem with that.

As to whether we should or should not be allowed to discuss such software, that should be left up to management of this forum. It is not illegal to discuss such matters, for example a discussion on how to steal a car would not be illegal. Discussion is just information. If someone uses that knowledge to then indeed steal a car, then they have committed an illegal act. If management decides that we should not discuss software that, if used, might be an illegal act, then we won't.

DVD rippers are discussed openly on most all of our competing forums, so I think there is nothing wrong with the discussion, myself. Cass made the hacking and no sharing rule for different areas as we didn't want the forun to be a clearing house for such activities. I don't think ripping falls into the same catagory.

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LordGamer

So, would you say that doing a 100% copy from DVD to a hard drive, i.e. you are also copying the copyright/content protection, ok? Or would you feel it would negate the purpose of the copyright protection in the first place? Because if you copy the copyright/content protection, you aren't removing it.

rbinck

I would like to see the details of such systems, but as of yet I haven't been able to find a link.

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rbinck

Not VHS because they were the benefactor of the 1984 Betamax case where Universal Studios sued Sony over copyright issues. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court and the result was a finding for Sony. Read about it here: http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/betamax/

That was a landmark case and is the hinge pin of all subsequent copyright cases involving copying of copyrighted material. Since it went all the way through the courts and all the way to the Supreme Court, it is the most powerful case for fair use. In fact until DMCA is litigated all the way to the Supreme Court the issues in this thread are still in a lesser position to that ruling. Before the Betamax ruling it was also thought the copying of copyrighted material was illegal under then current law by many, just like it is thought that ripping DVD to hard drives with DRM intact is illegal under DMCA. It won't really be decided until a case goes to the Supreme Court or there is a law like the DMCRA passed to clarify the issue and either of those laws makes it to the Supreme Court. Even then to be accepted by the Supreme Court the issue would need to be deemed Constitutional. With the Betamax precedence, I'd expect they would accept such a case.

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Scottnot

This whole thread brings to mind the fact that any of us who have ever had spouses or "partners" have committed acts which in many states could land us in jail for 20-to-life!

I figure that if I want to commit an unlawful act in the privacy of my own home, whether with my wife or my favorite DVD, that's my business and I could care less whether some moron has passed an act making it "illegal".

edders

if a search of the Internet yields the mfr that ran afoul and got sued. Just remember that a few years ago there was a big to do about a hd based media server that allowed users to put their dvd collection on it, don't remember the name off hand. Do remember that it was 10k dollars, so as you might suspect, I don't own one.

Ed

edders

elaborate on the systems that you speak of here. Am not a computer guru, but it is hard to figure out how they would copy the disk "with copy protection scheme" intact. I mean that is illogical (so point my ears and call me Spock).

rbinck

Hopefully this will explain it for you: http://www.fusionrd.com/faq.htm

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rbinck

I have tried various searches and have yet to find a suit that found against a media server manufacturer. Many in other areas.

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edders

Kaleidoscope had a suit filed against it in 2004, but in 2007 then won the suit. That is one I know of and think they only won because of the vaguer y of the law and a good judge.

edders

I think we all agree that the laws of fair use and DMCA are in conflict. What worries me is their statement:


"The vendors who are promoting the use of third party software to defeat the encryption are actually exposing the end user to greater violations of copyright and are contributing to the copyright holder's fears of this class of equipment."

Emphysis on the underlined text. That is plain admission that it may pea off the studios, at least as I read it. "Greater" means theirs is still in question, IMO. Bit by Bit copying could be interpreted as circumventing the copy protection scheme as it indeed copies the software, fairly straightforward to me.

edders

I don't think it is wise for the studios to try and stifle the legitimate loading of DVD's onto a server for a persons private use, as long as they are not pirated movies. For me they are killing their own market, but so what else is new.

Think that if the studios has an active role in the specs of such systems they might allow them. Then again, there is always that desire on the part of some studios that a person should pay each time a movie is viewed. Possibly they somehow think having your movies on a server makes people watch them TOO MUCH? Strange, but so is Hollywood in my personal experience.

rbinck

Of course if you are dug in on your position, there is nothing short of a Surpreme Court ruling that will probably change your position.

In any case it is obvious to me that they, as well as other media server companies, do not agree with your stance. Since you have nothing to gain and they have their companies to loose, I tend to sway their direction.

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edders

Was really just stating what I have learned for discussion purposes. No need to get touchy and claim I am digging in my heels. You can't ignore the fact that every couple of years someone tries to offer legislation that would legalize fair use of copy protected DVD's. Apparently they see a need for it.

So I am not misunderstood, I think the idea of a media server is great. Seems to me a person should have the right to copy their DVD's onto a server for their own legitimate use.

Ed