DVD players vs. CD players

eventhorizon · 10-13-2009, 03:57 PM

I am sure this has been long debated on many forums, but with the recent acquisition of a top-notch DVD player; I figured it was time to do a comparison...

After auditioning several CD's on my Marantz CC4000OSE CD player and Pioneer Elite DV-C36 DVD player... here are my thoughts... I should start off by saying that no DVD has yet sounded as good as this player.. which is why I still own it.

On the *Pioneer, most of the vocals sound "tinny". The dynamic range is superb, highs are crisp and clear, and the bass is clean and tight. Compared to most DVD players, it was much better at distinguishing individual instruments, but not as good as the Marantz.

*Note- I noticed no difference in CD mode..

The vocals on the Marantz are more focused, centered, and natural. Instruments have the correct timbre and are located in the correct places. There's a greater depth of sound overall.. and its just more enjoyable to listen to.

Not sure exactly why this is true, but in my experience you're never gonna get great CD-audio out of a DVD player. If there is something I am missing, please let me know! And if someone with some technical understanding why this is the case, I'd love to know!

In case anyone is interested, I have owned many great sounding CD players and would gladly make recommendations.

I still think that for the money no player is better than the Sony CDP-C701ES (My reference player), the sound quality of this unit rivals ANYTHING out there including the venerable SCD-1. I had the privledge to audition a Sony CDPR1 Transport & DASR1 DAC and I can honestly say I noticed no audible difference. If its better, its only better on the spec sheet... beyond the limits of human hearing.

Two other players which are common and that I recommend are the NAD C542, and Rotel RCD-970BX.

I also owned a Marantz 63SE and then a 67SE before buying the CC4000OSE and thought the were great.

I still think that for the money you can't go wrong with a early 90's Sony.. The build quality and sound is superb. And they can be had for under $50 on Ebay. The ES models are better yet.. Those spending thousands on separate DAC's and transports are wasting their money. I have a 5-disk player (that everyone tells me will sound like garbage because only single disk players can possibly sound good), that sounds as good as ANYTHING on the market at any price.. It plays CD-Rs, is built like a tank, and is still serviceable. In fact I recently had the firmware updated.

Loves2Watch · 10-13-2009, 07:04 PM

It really depends on the player and the audio processors inside. For example, I have a fairly new Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player and CD audio is stellar...I also have an older Onkyo DV-CP802 DVD changer and CD's sound as good on it as any CD player that doesn't cost $5k.

Scottnot · 10-13-2009, 07:51 PM

The "player" itself should not make any difference, since all it does is read digital data and convert to low level audio.

Where the difference may become noticible (depending on one's degree of audiophilia) is in the amplifier as the signal is brought up to higher power levels.

eventhorizon · 10-14-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

It really depends on the player and the audio processors inside. For example, I have a fairly new Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player and CD audio is stellar...I also have an older Onkyo DV-CP802 DVD changer and CD's sound as good on it as any CD player that doesn't cost $5k.

I owned an old Onkyo DVD player as well, about the same vintage. It played very well..

eventhorizon · 10-14-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

The "player" itself should not make any difference, since all it does is read digital data and convert to low level audio.

Where the difference may become noticible (depending on one's degree of audiophilia) is in the amplifier as the signal is brought up to higher power levels.

It makes quite a difference, especially with great source material. The amplifier just lets you hear the weaknesses. And I've found that the contrary is true. The better the amp, the greater the need for a great CD player..

Scottnot · 10-14-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizon

It makes quite a difference, especially with great source material. The amplifier just lets you hear the weaknesses. And I've found that the contrary is true. The better the amp, the greater the need for a great CD player..

Interesting, but all players use a laser to read the CD and then an integrated D to A converter to create the low level audio.

No doubt there are more than a few manufacturers of both components, yet the technology is extremely mature and I would find it hard to believe that there is much (if any) difference between them.

Can you provide a link that might explain how the "better" players can accomplish the task better than "run-of-the-mill" players???

Loves2Watch · 10-14-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

Can you provide a link that might explain how the "better" players can accomplish the task better than "run-of-the-mill" players???

Do a search, I'm sure you will find the info.

Mr645 · 10-15-2009, 09:44 PM

There certainly are differences between disc players and audio, even when I have the audio processed by a preamp processor. There is nothing I can do with my Sony BD350 to make music sound as focused, with an accurate soundstange when compared to a Marantz DVD player that costs twice the price. The Marantz replaced a ten yr old Carver, Tube based CD player and did a virtually equal job, although on some harsher recordings, the Carver was far more enjoyable to listen too.

Chris Gerhard · 10-16-2009, 01:24 PM

Most important for CD audio quality in my opinion:

1. Properly mixed and mastered CD.
2. Speakers
3. Amplifier
4. Player

I have never heard any difference among my CD players when connected by optical, coaxial, or HDMI digital connection to any given amplifier. I admit I don't have expensive CD players, never have. My Oppo BDP-83 sounds as good with CD as any player I have ever owned in my opinion although I have never done any comparison of CD quality among players. I listen to SACD and DVD-A as much or more than I listen to CD so I do care about sound quality, I just don't buy the claims of better soundstage or better imaging or better anything associated with ultra expensive CD players and believe there is no objective evidence of this phenomena because it isn't real. The subjective claims are very common.

Chris

Scottnot · 10-16-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

(I) believe there is no objective evidence of this phenomena because it isn't real.
The subjective claims are very common.

Those were my thoughts as well; which is why I requested a link that might explain the phenomenon.
When prodded to "do a search", I did:
I could find NO objective information or data.
I did find tons of subjective claims, most of which parallelled the cost of the equipment being praised.

eventhorizon · 10-16-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

Those were my thoughts as well; which is why I requested a link that might explain the phenomenon.
When prodded to "do a search", I did:
I could find NO objective information or data.
I did find tons of subjective claims, most of which parallelled the cost of the equipment being praised.

Regardless of price there are players that sound tinny and unrealistic. Not sure if this is in the D/A convertor, internal wiring/components etc. I agree, I've heard no difference with the hi-end players... but there are some that make a difference. No CD player I've owned has cost me over $200, some of the $50 players I've tried have sounded better than $5000 players. I put CD players a bit higher than amplifiers, but its not too far off... here are my objective percentages..

50% < speakers
20% < source material
10% < pre-amp/processor
10% < CD player (2% Transport - 8% D/A) / Turntable (2%Tonearm - 8% Cartridge)
8% < Amplifier
2% < Cables/Wiring

Scottnot · 10-17-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizon

here are my objective percentages.

I'm sure you meant subjective.

eventhorizon · 10-19-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

I'm sure you meant subjective.

LOL, I did

..

10-13-2009, 03:57 PM	#1
eventhorizon How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 22	DVD players vs. CD players I am sure this has been long debated on many forums, but with the recent acquisition of a top-notch DVD player; I figured it was time to do a comparison... After auditioning several CD's on my Marantz CC4000OSE CD player and Pioneer Elite DV-C36 DVD player... here are my thoughts... I should start off by saying that no DVD has yet sounded as good as this player.. which is why I still own it. On the Pioneer, most of the vocals sound "tinny". The dynamic range is superb, highs are crisp and clear, and the bass is clean and tight. Compared to most DVD players, it was much better at distinguishing individual instruments, but not as good as the Marantz. Note- I noticed no difference in CD mode.. The vocals on the Marantz are more focused, centered, and natural. Instruments have the correct timbre and are located in the correct places. There's a greater depth of sound overall.. and its just more enjoyable to listen to. Not sure exactly why this is true, but in my experience you're never gonna get great CD-audio out of a DVD player. If there is something I am missing, please let me know! And if someone with some technical understanding why this is the case, I'd love to know! In case anyone is interested, I have owned many great sounding CD players and would gladly make recommendations. I still think that for the money no player is better than the Sony CDP-C701ES (My reference player), the sound quality of this unit rivals ANYTHING out there including the venerable SCD-1. I had the privledge to audition a Sony CDPR1 Transport & DASR1 DAC and I can honestly say I noticed no audible difference. If its better, its only better on the spec sheet... beyond the limits of human hearing. Two other players which are common and that I recommend are the NAD C542, and Rotel RCD-970BX. I also owned a Marantz 63SE and then a 67SE before buying the CC4000OSE and thought the were great. I still think that for the money you can't go wrong with a early 90's Sony.. The build quality and sound is superb. And they can be had for under $50 on Ebay. The ES models are better yet.. Those spending thousands on separate DAC's and transports are wasting their money. I have a 5-disk player (that everyone tells me will sound like garbage because only single disk players can possibly sound good), that sounds as good as ANYTHING on the market at any price.. It plays CD-Rs, is built like a tank, and is still serviceable. In fact I recently had the firmware updated. Last edited by eventhorizon; 10-13-2009 at 04:27 PM.

10-13-2009, 07:04 PM	#2
Loves2Watch SPAM Police Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: AZ, NM, TX, MX Posts: 13,940	It really depends on the player and the audio processors inside. For example, I have a fairly new Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player and CD audio is stellar...I also have an older Onkyo DV-CP802 DVD changer and CD's sound as good on it as any CD player that doesn't cost $5k. __________________ Theater 1 - Panasonic TH-85PF12U Plasma TV, 6 Conrad Johnson LP275M Amps, Anthem Statement D-2 Pre/Pro, 6 Thiel SCS4 Speakers, 2 REL T-1 Subs, Infinity Interlude 120S Sub, Simaudio MOON Orbiter Universal Disc Player, ELP Laser Turntable, 2 Dish Network ViP 622 DVR's, Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player, Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player. Friends don't let friends buy Korean brand TV's. Last edited by Loves2Watch; 10-13-2009 at 08:04 PM.

10-13-2009, 07:51 PM	#3
Scottnot Progress Not Perfection Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,020	The "player" itself should not make any difference, since all it does is read digital data and convert to low level audio. Where the difference may become noticible (depending on one's degree of audiophilia) is in the amplifier as the signal is brought up to higher power levels. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles Krug, 1978 Vintage Selection, Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Beringer, 1980, Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Port Morano, 1980 Vintage Port Beaulieu Vinyards, 1982 Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Stratford, 1983 Merlot Chateau La France, 1986 St. Emilion Sutter Home, 1982 Napa Valley Zinfandel The lonesome sipper

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10-15-2009, 09:44 PM	#8
Mr645 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 47	There certainly are differences between disc players and audio, even when I have the audio processed by a preamp processor. There is nothing I can do with my Sony BD350 to make music sound as focused, with an accurate soundstange when compared to a Marantz DVD player that costs twice the price. The Marantz replaced a ten yr old Carver, Tube based CD player and did a virtually equal job, although on some harsher recordings, the Carver was far more enjoyable to listen too.

10-16-2009, 01:24 PM	#9
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,207	Most important for CD audio quality in my opinion: 1. Properly mixed and mastered CD. 2. Speakers 3. Amplifier 4. Player I have never heard any difference among my CD players when connected by optical, coaxial, or HDMI digital connection to any given amplifier. I admit I don't have expensive CD players, never have. My Oppo BDP-83 sounds as good with CD as any player I have ever owned in my opinion although I have never done any comparison of CD quality among players. I listen to SACD and DVD-A as much or more than I listen to CD so I do care about sound quality, I just don't buy the claims of better soundstage or better imaging or better anything associated with ultra expensive CD players and believe there is no objective evidence of this phenomena because it isn't real. The subjective claims are very common. Chris