Why Do I Need To Set "Sharpness" With The BD Calibration Disc?

Peter Marlowe · 01-13-2009, 02:57 PM

When calibrating my Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD set, I need to use two different discs; the standard def DVD helps me adjust parameters like color, contrast, brightness, etc. very simply...but for some reason, when I try to set Sharpness, there seems to be no change on the sharpness patterns provided on this DiscWasher setup disc -- and the same thing happens when I run the THX Optimizer on DVDs equipped with that tool...

The Sharpness pattern that's used on the DiscWasher calibration DVD includes the massive rows of black and white lines that fill the screen from top to bottom, much like the THX test...however, when I adjust my Sharpness control during this test up or down, there is NO change whatsoever in the pattern. Yet, when I use the HD Basics Blu-ray calibration disc, THEIR Sharpness pattern, which uses the overscan circles to test for sharpness intensity, DOES show changes in the sharpness level as I raise and lower the control on the TV, and so I have adjusted Sharpness using this test on the BD calibration disc. But why does this happen? Why am I not able to see the sharpness change on the SD calibration DVD, only with the high def disc?

It was once suggested to me that this may be happening because my Panasonic Blu-ray player is upscaling the DVD image to 1080p, and it COULD possibly be affecting the way the lines of the sharpness pattern are being controlled/perceived...is this true? If so, which disc do I use to calibrate -- the Blu-ray or the DVD?

PFC5 · 01-18-2009, 08:44 PM

I would use a DVE disc above all others for ALL calibration myself. I wouldn't trust a DiscWasher calibration disc myself. I trust the calibration done with DVE for SD DVD/BD/HD DVD as it has given me great results with all of them over the years.

Peter Marlowe · 01-18-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I would use a DVE disc above all others for ALL calibration myself. I wouldn't trust a DiscWasher calibration disc myself. I trust the calibration done with DVE for SD DVD/BD/HD DVD as it has given me great results with all of them over the years.

The thing is, the DiscWasher system has provided excellent standard DVD calibration settings in the dozens of times I have used it; it's really simple to set Color, Contrast, etc. with this disc -- the instructions are almost entry-level in nature.

The thing is, PF, that I do not understand why I can set all these adjustments like Contrast, Color, etc. with the DiscWasher DVD disc, but SHARPNESS is NOT affected when using this disc -- yet when I put in the DVE Blu-ray, THEIR Sharpness pattern shows changes when I go up and down the range (in 1080p, or whatever the resolution is on the DVE disc); that overscan pattern that DVE uses on the Blu-ray calibration disc is what you use for setting Sharpness too, and on that test you can clearly see the lines getting fuzzy and then un-fuzzy as you move the Sharpness control...yet, on the Sharpness patterns of the STANDARD definition DVD calibration disc, the black and white vertical bar tests DO NOT CHANGE at all when I move the Sharpness control of the TV...

Why is this, and what pattern do I trust?

The thing with using DVE for setting ALL controls like Color, Tint, etc. is that I find that disc frustratingly difficult to navigate; the instructions for setting the Contrast, for example, on HD Basics, takes you on a whirlwind of tasks for balancing the Brightness with the Contrast white levels; it's just so confusing....and so are the instructions for setting Color levels. The DiscWasher DVD, on the other hand, offers such easy voice-prompted instructions for adjusting the Contrast and Brightness and Color; for example, the voice system on the DiscWasher DVD claims "...reduce Contrast to approximately 80 percent of maximum and stop..." when setting the Contrast level...for Brightness, it tells you to look for when the outer Pluge Pattern black bar disappears, and that shall be the correct black level...etc. etc.

They just make it so easy.

Lee Stewart · 01-19-2009, 05:49 AM

Try this:

http://www.avical.com/articles/avica..._tutorial.html

Peter Marlowe · 01-19-2009, 02:27 PM

Lee,

Thank you VERY much for providing that link -- I will definitely look it over when I have more time, although I believe I have read it before...

At any rate, the issue still remains for me that I am trying to figure out why I am able to set every control OTHER than Sharpness with the standard def DVD calibration disc, and I need to use the DVE Blu-ray calibrator in order to see that sharpness overscan pattern move and change...

Lee Stewart · 01-19-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

Lee,

Thank you VERY much for providing that link -- I will definitely look it over when I have more time, although I believe I have read it before...

At any rate, the issue still remains for me that I am trying to figure out why I am able to set every control OTHER than Sharpness with the standard def DVD calibration disc, and I need to use the DVE Blu-ray calibrator in order to see that sharpness overscan pattern move and change...

The reason why you can't use the DVD's Sharpness on an HDTV is because the signal isn't strong enough. It stops at about 450 effective lines of resolution while the HD version goes up to about 900 effective lines of resoltion.

Peter Marlowe · 01-19-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

The reason why you can't use the DVD's Sharpness on an HDTV is because the signal isn't strong enough. It stops at about 450 effective lines of resolution while the HD version goes up to about 900 effective lines of resoltion.

Thank You!

I haven't gotten that kind of response from anyone since trying to figure this out! It makes it difficult, though, when calibrating because you see I use my Blu-ray player as both a Blu player AND DVD player, so I am not sure which kind of disc to use for calibration; furthermore, I'm not certain if it's "okay" to use the DVD calibration disc for everything BUT Sharpness and then just use DVE Blu-ray calibration for the Sharpness...

Peter Marlowe · 01-19-2009, 09:05 PM

You know what else I wanted to ask you, Lee?

When I do the calibrating off the DVD test disc, the player is set up to upconvert DVD signals to 1080p...is this okay to leave as I am running the test patterns, being that I'll be watching DVDs at this resolution?

Lee Stewart · 01-20-2009, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

Thank You!

I haven't gotten that kind of response from anyone since trying to figure this out! It makes it difficult, though, when calibrating because you see I use my Blu-ray player as both a Blu player AND DVD player, so I am not sure which kind of disc to use for calibration; furthermore, I'm not certain if it's "okay" to use the DVD calibration disc for everything BUT Sharpness and then just use DVE Blu-ray calibration for the Sharpness...

IMO - you should really be using the HD version to set all the controls.

The fact that you will play DVD's on your BD player - it is still going to be displayed on your HDTV. And you want your HDTV set to the parameters of HDTV, not NTSC.

Lee Stewart · 01-20-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

You know what else I wanted to ask you, Lee?

When I do the calibrating off the DVD test disc, the player is set up to upconvert DVD signals to 1080p...is this okay to leave as I am running the test patterns, being that I'll be watching DVDs at this resolution?

See above post.

Peter Marlowe · 01-20-2009, 08:29 PM

Thank you for all the help, Lee.

I will indeed take it all into consideration; the main question I had, which you answered, was why I wasn't able to set Sharpness using a SD DVD disc...

Thanks again for that, good friend.

Lee Stewart · 01-21-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

Thank you for all the help, Lee.

I will indeed take it all into consideration; the main question I had, which you answered, was why I wasn't able to set Sharpness using a SD DVD disc...

Thanks again for that, good friend.

My pleasure and any time.

PFC5 · 01-21-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

The reason why you can't use the DVD's Sharpness on an HDTV is because the signal isn't strong enough. It stops at about 450 effective lines of resolution while the HD version goes up to about 900 effective lines of resoltion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

Thank You!

I haven't gotten that kind of response from anyone since trying to figure this out! It makes it difficult, though, when calibrating because you see I use my Blu-ray player as both a Blu player AND DVD player, so I am not sure which kind of disc to use for calibration; furthermore, I'm not certain if it's "okay" to use the DVD calibration disc for everything BUT Sharpness and then just use DVE Blu-ray calibration for the Sharpness...

I am not sure this is the reason since the player IS upscaling it to 1920x1080 when outputting it. Also, my standard version of DVE changes the sharpness on screen when i change the sharpness setting, just like it does for the HD DVD version AND the BD versions of DVE I also have.

I believe it is that Discwasher "calibration" disc that is the reason and how they encoded it.

Take the time to learn how to navigate the DVE disc and you will be able to navigate it like a pro the more you use it. I can get anywhere within 30 seconds now that i figured out and learned how the navigation on the disc works. It IS what you should use for all the calibration. Using certain test screens from an SD source and others from a HD source will likely create inconsistencies in the settings.

Peter Marlowe · 01-21-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I am not sure this is the reason since the player IS upscaling it to 1920x1080 when outputting it. Also, my standard version of DVE changes the sharpness on screen when i change the sharpness setting, just like it does for the HD DVD version AND the BD versions of DVE I also have.

I believe it is that Discwasher "calibration" disc that is the reason and how they encoded it.

Yes but the THX Optimizer on THX certified DVDs, such as the Star Wars discs, show the same thing -- that is, with their vertical black and white test pattern for Sharpness, my TV's control won't show any adjustment when trying it. The only test pattern that shows change is when I use the DVE's overscan pattern...

Quote:

Take the time to learn how to navigate the DVE disc and you will be able to navigate it like a pro the more you use it. I can get anywhere within 30 seconds now that i figured out and learned how the navigation on the disc works. It IS what you should use for all the calibration. Using certain test screens from an SD source and others from a HD source will likely create inconsistencies in the settings.

Understood; the problem though isn't navigating the DVE disc -- I can also cycle to the screen tests I need very quickly -- it's understanding how to use their system for Contrast (the ramp patterns), Brightness, Color, etc. It's just too complicated.

PFC5 · 01-21-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

Yes but the THX Optimizer on THX certified DVDs, such as the Star Wars discs, show the same thing -- that is, with their vertical black and white test pattern for Sharpness, my TV's control won't show any adjustment when trying it. The only test pattern that shows change is when I use the DVE's overscan pattern...

Then that tells me it is a issue with how your TV works in STANDARD mode with sharpness limitations when playing SD material then as the likely reason. Does it do this in CUSTOM mode? I see3m to remember that it does not do this in that mode.

Understood; the problem though isn't navigating the DVE disc -- I can also cycle to the screen tests I need very quickly -- it's understanding how to use their system for Contrast (the ramp patterns), Brightness, Color, etc. It's just too complicated.

Anything worth doing right is worth learning how to do it right IMO. Play back the tutorial on the DVE disc several times and that will help to better understand what you are adjusting and WHY you are adjusting it. It isn't real complex once you get what/how it is to be done. The it will seem like a piece of cake.

01-13-2009, 02:57 PM	#1
Peter Marlowe HDF's Resident Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,845	Why Do I Need To Set "Sharpness" With The BD Calibration Disc? When calibrating my Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD set, I need to use two different discs; the standard def DVD helps me adjust parameters like color, contrast, brightness, etc. very simply...but for some reason, when I try to set Sharpness, there seems to be no change on the sharpness patterns provided on this DiscWasher setup disc -- and the same thing happens when I run the THX Optimizer on DVDs equipped with that tool... The Sharpness pattern that's used on the DiscWasher calibration DVD includes the massive rows of black and white lines that fill the screen from top to bottom, much like the THX test...however, when I adjust my Sharpness control during this test up or down, there is NO change whatsoever in the pattern. Yet, when I use the HD Basics Blu-ray calibration disc, THEIR Sharpness pattern, which uses the overscan circles to test for sharpness intensity, DOES show changes in the sharpness level as I raise and lower the control on the TV, and so I have adjusted Sharpness using this test on the BD calibration disc. But why does this happen? Why am I not able to see the sharpness change on the SD calibration DVD, only with the high def disc? It was once suggested to me that this may be happening because my Panasonic Blu-ray player is upscaling the DVD image to 1080p, and it COULD possibly be affecting the way the lines of the sharpness pattern are being controlled/perceived...is this true? If so, which disc do I use to calibrate -- the Blu-ray or the DVD?

01-18-2009, 08:44 PM	#2
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	I would use a DVE disc above all others for ALL calibration myself. I wouldn't trust a DiscWasher calibration disc myself. I trust the calibration done with DVE for SD DVD/BD/HD DVD as it has given me great results with all of them over the years. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

Similar Threads to Why Do I Need To Set "Sharpness" With The BD Calibration Disc?
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How To Update The Firmware On Your Toshiba HD DVD Player - For New Owners	MidnightWatche	HD DVD Players and Discs	140	05-18-2012 04:13 AM
BD disc sales surpass 1m units across Europe	Lyris	High Definition Media	23	11-28-2007 07:50 AM
PlayStation 3 enjoys record pre-orders	GLOW	Gaming & Systems	5	02-13-2007 05:38 AM
LOTR HD BOX Set Extras	sufs	High Definition Media	20	02-04-2007 12:40 PM
AVIA or DVE Calibration Disc. Which one??	dpwilgreen	HDTV Calibration	0	01-15-2005 09:14 PM

01-19-2009, 05:49 AM	#4
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	Try this: http://www.avical.com/articles/avica..._tutorial.html

01-19-2009, 02:27 PM	#5
Peter Marlowe HDF's Resident Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,845	Lee, Thank you VERY much for providing that link -- I will definitely look it over when I have more time, although I believe I have read it before... At any rate, the issue still remains for me that I am trying to figure out why I am able to set every control OTHER than Sharpness with the standard def DVD calibration disc, and I need to use the DVE Blu-ray calibrator in order to see that sharpness overscan pattern move and change...

01-19-2009, 09:05 PM	#8
Peter Marlowe HDF's Resident Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,845	You know what else I wanted to ask you, Lee? When I do the calibrating off the DVD test disc, the player is set up to upconvert DVD signals to 1080p...is this okay to leave as I am running the test patterns, being that I'll be watching DVDs at this resolution?

01-20-2009, 08:29 PM	#11
Peter Marlowe HDF's Resident Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,845	Thank you for all the help, Lee. I will indeed take it all into consideration; the main question I had, which you answered, was why I wasn't able to set Sharpness using a SD DVD disc... Thanks again for that, good friend.