High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Viewing Mediums, HDTVs > Rear-Projection TVs
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

Rear-Projection TVs CRT, DLP, LCD, LCOS RSS - Rear-Projection TVs

Samsung DLP HL-P5085W Problem--If you own or plan to, read this...

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2005, 09:38 PM   #1
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default Samsung DLP HL-P5085W Problem--If you own or plan to, read this...

I bought a Samsung HL-P5085W in February. Samsung's customer service has replaced it with a new set of the same model and I am continuing to have this problem.

I watch almost all HDTV programming on this TV. I have it connected to Cox Cable and a Scientific Atlanta 8000HD High Def DVR box. Almost everything I watch is recorded and played back on the HD DVR. Some programs, including American Idol, always look fantastic.

But sometimes I see a really strange effect with the color on some shows. The gradation of colors is rough and you can see very noticeable "lines" of color. For instance, on an episode of HBO's "Carnivale," a woman is shown in the desert with a an intensely blue sky around her head. Instead of seeing a smooth, natural transition from the dark blue at the top of the screen to the light blue lower down, I see bands of blue color of successively lighter shades. (Shown on my Sony CRT HDTV, the same recorded scene looks natural and shows nothing of these lines of color gradation.)

I see what I believe are other manifestations of this problem on other shows. Sometimes it is exactly the same type of effect, and other times, as wtih most scenes in Law & Order Trial by Jury, the color just looks sort of grainy and rough--almost like those reverse-negative style portraits of Marilyn Monroe.

Samsung tried to fix the first set, first with a new light engine, and then with a new digital board. The light engine did nothing, and the new digital board made the problem many, many times worse to the point that the tech could not deny there was a problem.

This is NOT the rainbow effect that I'm seeing. I know exactly what that is, and this is something different. I have pictures of the screens that show the problem, but I don't know if I can post them here.

Has anyone else experienced this? Do you have any suggestions as to how I can track this issue down and prove to Samsung what it is?

Thanks!
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2005, 10:35 PM   #2
Mr. Wizard
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ferndale, Michigan
Age: 66
Posts: 5,981
Default

You're experiencing 'color banding'... but it MIGHT be the STB, not TV...

What connection are you using? Do you have your STB configured for 720p?
RSawdey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 07:58 AM   #3
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 21
Default Maybe?

"Almost everything I watch is recorded and played back on the HD DVR. "

Is the DVR using compression? Are the colors correct watching the program when it's broadcast?

"(Shown on my Sony CRT HDTV, the same recorded scene looks natural and shows nothing of these lines of color gradation.)"

I don't think CRT is digital. Meaning less banding because of 3 light projection guns.
imustbecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 11:33 AM   #4
Guitar Gunslinger
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee280zx
But sometimes I see a really strange effect with the color on some shows. The gradation of colors is rough and you can see very noticeable "lines" of color. Has anyone else experienced this?

Do you have any suggestions as to how I can track this issue down and prove to Samsung what it is?
Your problems are most likely due to a couple of things. #1 - these sets are configured at the factory to look good in a brightly lit showroom. Most people have been very happy after going into the Service Menu and adjusting the GAMMA to 0. Also, if you can, convert all signals going to your set to 720p, then set the picture size to "Expand". This will give you 1 to 1 pixel mapping.

#2 - HBO HD, from many providers, may be slightly compressed. This is another cause of color banding. DiscoverHD, I've been told, is a great signal. If DiscoverHD does not exhibit the color-banding, then it's possible your provider's HBO signal is being down-ressed a bit . I subscribe to DirecTV, and have been disappointed in the low resolution of some of their supposedly HD programming. I see the graininess at times, and I know it ain't the set.

Carnivale is a very dark show. It was the main reason I started researching what could be done. Turning the GAMMA to 0 "fixed" Carnivale for me.

If you can receive local HD from an antenna, you should be able to see what this set can do. The HD content of the local PBS channel in San Diego is absolutely stunning. The first time I hooked up the antenna and flipped on local PBS, it raised the hairs on my arms. And the satellite signal never looks as good, though it ain't bad, if you can get over and accept its limitations.
stevedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 01:36 PM   #5
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 182
Default

stevedee
i own the 5085w as well and followed ur advice with regard to setting my signal to 720p and my tv to 'Expand' but i don't understand the "1 to 1 pixel mapping" reasoning.
leshabitants24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2005, 01:12 AM   #6
Mr. Wizard
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ferndale, Michigan
Age: 66
Posts: 5,981
Default

It means you've got each logical pixel in the signal mapped to one hardware pixel - crispest display...
RSawdey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2005, 03:56 PM   #7
High Definition is the definition of life.
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 182
Default

stevedee

when i set the tv as u suggest i lose the crispness in my 1080i tv stations. i find there r more hd providers in 1080i than 720p. at least in toronto here.
leshabitants24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 11:11 PM   #8
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default

RSawdey: I am using component video cables. There is a DVI connection on my box, but my local cable provider does not support it (they say it might or might not work). I have tried the stb on different settings, though I'm not sure what it is on now. I don't recall any difference.

...

imustbecrazy: I have not watched these same programs live. In fact, I almost never watch HD programming live, so I have no idea if the recording is to blame. I also don't know if the DVR compresses it (how could I find out)?
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005, 11:26 PM   #9
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default

Stevedee: Thanks for the information. I do know how to change the settings on my set top box to 720p and will try that.

But, I don't know what you mean when you say I should set my picture size to expand. Is that a setting on the TV? Is it part of the service menu?

Also, I don't know how to access the service menu. How do I do that and what does the gamma setting control?

I'm glad to communicate with another owner in San Diego. I don't have an aerial HD tuner (I use Cox cable and a Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box), but I can tell you that some channels look much better than others. PBSHD looks great (even on cable), and so does DiscoveryHD. Don't laugh, but one show that always looks exceptionally good is American Idol on FOXHD.

How are you usually watching HD on your set?

I'm trying to attach a picture of the Carnivale example of what I'm seeing. Look closely at the blue around the woman's head and you'll see the bands. They are much more noticeable than they are in the picture.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg carnivale1.jpg (16.5 KB, 441 views)
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 08:52 AM   #10
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default

Stevedee: I turned off the DNIe, and that did away with the Lion's share of the banding. Thanks so much for the suggestion.

I'd still like to try your other suggestions.

How do I access the TV's service menu?

How do I set the picture size to "expand?" Is that in the service menu, also?
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 01:38 PM   #11
Mr. Wizard
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ferndale, Michigan
Age: 66
Posts: 5,981
Default

Expand is in the User menu, under PC.

Service menu is entered by pressing "Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power" when the TV is off... Power off to exit, wait 10 seconds to power back on. Be careful here... you can break things messing with the unknown. For me, Gamma is under the 1010 chip settings. Changing Gamma to 0 will help gray area performance.

Selecting the output resolution of your STB has nothing to do with the format of the content being viewed... it should be set to the native res of the TV, or to 'pass thru mode' if you want all format conversions done in the TV. Many STBs don't support pass thru, though... your TV is going to display everying at 720p/60... that's the hardware res of your fixed pixel device. Passing any other res to the TV will cause it to convert to 720p. Problem is multiple conversion... if you set 1080i, then a received 720p signal will be converted once in the STB & again in the TV... and multiple conversion reduces PQ.

All DTV is compressed for distribution using MPEG2, whether it's OTA, Cable, or Sat. When DTV is recorded, the STILL compressed stream is stored to disc. Playback gives an identical picture to being viewed live. Format received is the format stored. Forcing MPEG2 to compress to lesser bandwidth will reduce quality... Sat does this sometimes to cram in more channels...
RSawdey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 07:02 PM   #12
Guitar Gunslinger
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee280zx
Stevedee:

How do I access the TV's service menu?

How do I set the picture size to "expand?" Is that in the service menu, also?
I cannot stress enough how important it is to BE CAREFUL when in the Service Menu. Take the time to write down any settings you are going to change in case you wish to change them back, and if you don't know what they do, leave them alone. You've been warned and I am not responsible if your set accidently becomes unwatchable.

To access the Service Menu. With the TV on, using the TV's remote, quickly, in succession, press Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power. That should bring up the Service Menu. Using the arrow keys on your remote, go into the DDP1011 Menu (the top one, I believe). Navigate to the GAMMA setting and change it to 0, or one you like better. Turn the TV off and wait at least 30 seconds for the TV to "reset". When you turn the TV back on, all your User Settings (Contrast, Brightness, etc) will be back to their default values, so you will have to change them back.

To put your set in "Expand" mode, you first must make sure you are feeding it a 720p signal, or that setting will not be available as a choice. Go into Menu>Picture>Size to change the screen size.

Good luck. Again, be extremely careful in the Service Menu. Worst case, you'll void your warranty.
stevedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 07:14 PM   #13
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default

Stevedee and RSawdee: Thanks to both of you.

You both mention the same key sequence to get into the service menu, but RSawdey says to press them when the TV is off, and Stevedee says to do it when the TV is on. Did one of you make a mistake? Which way do I do it?

Also, why would it be in different areas (1010 and 1011) on your sets?

As to both of your warnings about the service menu, if I just go in and change that one gamma setting, is there a chance I'm going to screw something up??

Last, what is the gamma setting? Can either of you explain what it does?


(I have noticed that while turning DNIe off significantly lessened the banding in the Carnivale scene I posted, I do still see banding in other scenes! Would switching to an HDMI connection on a newer HD box likely help this problem?)
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 08:58 PM   #14
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default

Stevedee: I set my HD cable box to only output 720p, but when I go to menu, picture, size, the only options I have are wide and 4:3--no "expand." What am I doing wrong?


(And in the picture format menu on the STB I have selected Pass-Through, with the other options being Upconvert-1, Upconvert-2 and Fixed.)
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2005, 09:42 PM   #15
My plasma is High Def.
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7
Default

I was reading the owner's manual for the TV, and I guess I only have the option for the "expand" setting if I am connecting my STB to the TV via the HDMI input (or DVI?).

I'm connected using component video cables. Should I see a significant improvement if I switch to an HDMI cable?

(I'll have to wait until I get my new STB as the current one only has a DVI output. And while it is active, Cox cable does not support its use, and the same is likely true for the HDMI connection on the newer HD STB they have.)
Lee280zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition Viewing Mediums, HDTVs > Rear-Projection TVs
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:10 PM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2004 - 2008, High Def Forum