LCD deterioration over time

jeflet · 01-20-2005, 03:43 PM

I have wondered about posting a question about the effect of time and heat and light on LCDs when I came across the link below. I don't know how relevent it is to the real world, but I can see the logic of better long term performance with DLP over LCD. This has rather worried me as I have been hankering after the 50 inch Sony LCD RP, but now I'm not so sure.

Does anyone have any experience with LCDs deteriorating over time?

Thanks

http://www.dlp.com/business/business..._article_1.asp

Sport73 · 01-20-2005, 04:48 PM

I watched that propoganda and got nervous before buying my Hitachi LCD set as well. BUT,

They fail to explicitly mention the test parameters. Notice that things improved with the newer LCD sets? That's because they're better made.

Most importantly, notice that the 'test images' are just that...STATIC IMAGES. LCD's are known to exhibit strain/potential breakdown under EXTREME conditions of static images (like 24x7 static image viewing, as in the test). The LCD pixels get 'stuck' and are bombarded by the light of the lamp. This can be 'excercised' out of the LCD pixels over time by showing contrasting B&W fields to massage them into order again.

The tests were conducted by the folks responsible for DLP, and are subject to question for that reason alone.

LCD technology has been around for some time, and my laptop screens show no sign (after years of use) of degredation other than the loss of brightness by the backlighting flourescent light. Projection LCD's are no different. LCD panels 'backlit' by a bright lamp. You should expect that technology will leap forward in a way that will leave you wanting a new set LONG before your LCD components fail.

To be fair, it's scientifically sound that LCD panels could decompose/degrade, while DLP micro-mirrors will not. However, considering DLP issues of RAINBOWS, HEADACHES, MOTION ARTIFACTS, RELIABILITY OF SPINNING COLOR WHEELS, etc. I'd say the safer bet is almost certainly LCD.

Just my 2 cents, I'm not a scientist, but I'm a pretty smart guy.

maximus · 01-20-2005, 04:57 PM

Great reply Sport,

and again in fairness to LCD...

...DLP colorwheel filters are not proven long-term either.

crazyal · 01-21-2005, 04:03 PM

I too am leaning towards a Sony, one of the 955s. It's not like the good old days when everyone had a CRT and things like life expectancy, rainbow effects, burn in, etc. were never a concern. I would find myself calculating how many days it would take me to get to 30,000 hours watching TV at my present rate. Here's my opinion from what I've read. hope it will help. There is a difference between flat panel and rear projection LCD's, of course that article is talking about front LCDs. Either way with the numbers they are giving (2560 hours) translates to a little over 100 days. I would think that with both front panel and RP LCDS being sold for as long as they have been someone would have said something before now if the picture quality dropped like that reported in that advertisement for DLLs front projectors.

Since LCD's don't give off light or color they need a light source and a color filter. Flat panels use a phosphorus light that does suffer from the same life span issues, all be it not as bad, that plasmas do. Since LCD's have no color associated with them, it's a layer added to the panel. The difference between the flat panels and RP is the flat panels have all three colors on one big panel vs. most RP use three panels with one color per panel that is merged together on it's projection screen. Since RP LCD use bulbs it's just a matter of replacing it to get back to original color levels. If the LCD panel sees too much heat it will become damaged but I haven't heard of anyone saying that something like that happened to them. My guess is what that article is trying to say is that the color layer fades over time or if the LCD panel is built with a plastic that could fade it will give a yellow hue. If that's true and the time frame they say it happens in then any office using LCD monitors that leave there computers on 24/7 should be suffering a degrading picture or even worse a unusable monitor. My opinion is that advertisement for DLP is just that, an advertisement for DLP.

I've looked into this quite a bit, can't say I'm 100% correct but I'm confidant enough to spend $3000 to $4000 on my choice. What turned me off from DLP is the rainbow effect, I can't see it but I don't want to spend lots of money to get a great picture only to have friends not come over to watch it because they can't watch my TV. Personally I plan on waiting till after the superbowl to buy, maybe the prices will drop a little.

TMMerlin · 01-21-2005, 06:02 PM

I liked crazyal's reply and agree with him.

When I did my "homework" on my new TV, I settled on LCD as the best long term investment, especially when you lay down 5-grand

I am 100% pleased with my Sammy LTN406W

01-20-2005, 03:43 PM	#1
jeflet My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5	LCD deterioration over time I have wondered about posting a question about the effect of time and heat and light on LCDs when I came across the link below. I don't know how relevent it is to the real world, but I can see the logic of better long term performance with DLP over LCD. This has rather worried me as I have been hankering after the 50 inch Sony LCD RP, but now I'm not so sure. Does anyone have any experience with LCDs deteriorating over time? Thanks http://www.dlp.com/business/business..._article_1.asp

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01-20-2005, 04:48 PM	#2
Sport73 Be the Ball Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 131	I watched that propoganda and got nervous before buying my Hitachi LCD set as well. BUT, They fail to explicitly mention the test parameters. Notice that things improved with the newer LCD sets? That's because they're better made. Most importantly, notice that the 'test images' are just that...STATIC IMAGES. LCD's are known to exhibit strain/potential breakdown under EXTREME conditions of static images (like 24x7 static image viewing, as in the test). The LCD pixels get 'stuck' and are bombarded by the light of the lamp. This can be 'excercised' out of the LCD pixels over time by showing contrasting B&W fields to massage them into order again. The tests were conducted by the folks responsible for DLP, and are subject to question for that reason alone. LCD technology has been around for some time, and my laptop screens show no sign (after years of use) of degredation other than the loss of brightness by the backlighting flourescent light. Projection LCD's are no different. LCD panels 'backlit' by a bright lamp. You should expect that technology will leap forward in a way that will leave you wanting a new set LONG before your LCD components fail. To be fair, it's scientifically sound that LCD panels could decompose/degrade, while DLP micro-mirrors will not. However, considering DLP issues of RAINBOWS, HEADACHES, MOTION ARTIFACTS, RELIABILITY OF SPINNING COLOR WHEELS, etc. I'd say the safer bet is almost certainly LCD. Just my 2 cents, I'm not a scientist, but I'm a pretty smart guy.

01-20-2005, 04:57 PM	#3
maximus user Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 903	Great reply Sport, and again in fairness to LCD... ...DLP colorwheel filters are not proven long-term either.

01-21-2005, 04:03 PM	#4
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,312	I too am leaning towards a Sony, one of the 955s. It's not like the good old days when everyone had a CRT and things like life expectancy, rainbow effects, burn in, etc. were never a concern. I would find myself calculating how many days it would take me to get to 30,000 hours watching TV at my present rate. Here's my opinion from what I've read. hope it will help. There is a difference between flat panel and rear projection LCD's, of course that article is talking about front LCDs. Either way with the numbers they are giving (2560 hours) translates to a little over 100 days. I would think that with both front panel and RP LCDS being sold for as long as they have been someone would have said something before now if the picture quality dropped like that reported in that advertisement for DLLs front projectors. Since LCD's don't give off light or color they need a light source and a color filter. Flat panels use a phosphorus light that does suffer from the same life span issues, all be it not as bad, that plasmas do. Since LCD's have no color associated with them, it's a layer added to the panel. The difference between the flat panels and RP is the flat panels have all three colors on one big panel vs. most RP use three panels with one color per panel that is merged together on it's projection screen. Since RP LCD use bulbs it's just a matter of replacing it to get back to original color levels. If the LCD panel sees too much heat it will become damaged but I haven't heard of anyone saying that something like that happened to them. My guess is what that article is trying to say is that the color layer fades over time or if the LCD panel is built with a plastic that could fade it will give a yellow hue. If that's true and the time frame they say it happens in then any office using LCD monitors that leave there computers on 24/7 should be suffering a degrading picture or even worse a unusable monitor. My opinion is that advertisement for DLP is just that, an advertisement for DLP. I've looked into this quite a bit, can't say I'm 100% correct but I'm confidant enough to spend $3000 to $4000 on my choice. What turned me off from DLP is the rainbow effect, I can't see it but I don't want to spend lots of money to get a great picture only to have friends not come over to watch it because they can't watch my TV. Personally I plan on waiting till after the superbowl to buy, maybe the prices will drop a little.

01-21-2005, 06:02 PM	#5
TMMerlin Samsung LTN406W for HD Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 98	I liked crazyal's reply and agree with him. When I did my "homework" on my new TV, I settled on LCD as the best long term investment, especially when you lay down 5-grand I am 100% pleased with my Sammy LTN406W