Mits WD62525 HDMI dig audio output?

rudyusmc1980 · 11-18-2004, 11:12 PM

Does this set pass the digital audio from an HDMI device to an A/V receiver? so far all I can confirm is that the coax dig audio output works for DTV signals. I have not seen if it does or does not pass HDMI audio. Basically HDMI audio is a crock of manure if tv manufacturers won't support audio output to a receiver.

mfabien · 11-19-2004, 05:58 AM

In the back panel, there's the digital audio output over the cable card slot. See it at:
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/common/...-E8A119959B21}

Page 13 for illustration and paragraph 12 on page 14 for description.

maximus · 11-21-2004, 10:39 PM

I'm not sure what's involved in switching the HDMI audio signal to an optical/coax output inside the TV, it shouldn't be a cost issue in such an expensive set. I just don't think the TV makers feel it's necessary to include this (hopefully they'll change).
HDMI switching AV receivers offer a solution to this and that is probably the way most CE manufacturers want it to be, to entice us to buy them. Unfortunately HDMI won't show some of its key benefits until all of our components are capable.

mfabien · 11-22-2004, 05:09 AM

Top line receivers are just coming out with HDMI input/output ports. But they cost a bunch of $$$$. There is really no justification to invest so much money in a receiver if it is simply for switching Video.

One can use an HDMI switch box such as Gefen's illustrated at: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/hdmi-2x1-switch.htm

A TV manufacturer would produce it's latest HDTV models with an HDMI input (rather than a DVI) and in doing so, would include a digital audio output in the back panel because for HT users need to use an audio amplifier/processor. HDMI incorporates digital audio and there's no loss of data by shifting the digital audio from the TV to the amplifier/processor.

Note: Any HDTV equipped with an HDMI input should have a digital audio output port. If not, the unit should not be purchased...it would take a dumb manufacturer to have done that.

maximus · 11-22-2004, 05:56 AM

IIRC the digital audio output on Integrated HDTVs (and any other ATSC receiving device) has to by law include that output, because HD is Dolby Digital (mandatory). So you would need a 5.1 AV receiver regardless, there are no HDTVs that can play back 5.1 by themselves. My point is that HDMI inputs on a HDTV have nothing to do with the built-in tuner or its DD output (unfortunately).

mfabien · 11-22-2004, 06:17 AM

Ok I now see what you meant.

The TV with HDMI can use it's speakers for DD2 and most have SRS. It is surprising to see the extent of surround sound a big TV can deliver. In fact one can select 5.1, say on a DVD setup, and get something close to surround. Of course, there is no match to the use of a quality amplifier/processor and good speakers.

rudyusmc1980 · 11-22-2004, 08:44 AM

Why should I have to spend an extra $350 when this functionality should be built in? Maximus had it right about the CE makers. Certainly having the audio go from tv to reciever wouldn't hurt any HDCP. or would it? I guess that in theory, you could record a CD of your Desperate Houswives show and listen to it while you jog. but We Can Already Do That Anyways!!!

Why did I choose this as a hobby? Why not golf? (hated it) Why not beer? (already do that recreationally) How about as a career instead of hobby? (I can design it better)

Anyone else think they can do a better job than their engineers? at least at functionality?

mfabien · 11-22-2004, 12:39 PM

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are talking about... but I'll take a chance to add to my previous posts,

HDMI is a connection from a device, such as a STB box, to another device, such as a HDTV, and the data transmitted on that kind of cable is both Video and audio in uncompressed digital format.

Now you can keep the audio in device 2, the TV, and use the TV speakers for DD stereo and even surround sound if you enable SRS in your TV's audio options.

If your STB box has a DVI instead of HDMI, even if you use a special cable converting DVI to HDMI you no longer carry audio in that cable.

Many HDTV users who have somekind of Home Theater setup use an A/V receiver instead of using the TV's speaker system. For those people the HDMI cable requires them to get the digital sound from the TV instead of the STB box. Thus the requirement to install a digital cable (optical or coax, as it applies) from the TV to the A/V.

That's the best I can do here. Now what is this $350 you are talking about and what exactly is your beef against the manufacturers?

rudyusmc1980 · 11-22-2004, 02:37 PM

My beef is this: No television currently on the market, that I know of, will take a 5.1 audio stream from an HDMI cable and send it to an A/V receiver. They won't do it. They will send 5.1 dig audio from a cable card, from an OTA tuner, and in the case of the mitsu I originally posted about- from IEEE.

PHP Code:


			
Many HDTV users who have somekind of Home Theater setup use an A/V receiver instead of using the TVs speaker system. For those people the HDMI cable requires them to get the digital sound from the TV instead of the STB box. Thus the requirement to install a digital cable (optical or coax, as it applies) from the TV to the A/V.

Wrong. The TV will not send 5.1 dig audio from the TV to the a/v receiver when the audio stream originated from HDMI. You will have to use an audio cable from the STB to the a/v receiver in order to get 5.1. The only way around this is an HDMI switching a/v receiver, currently around $4k! (plus a SECOND HDMI cable to go from the receiver to the TV!)
I would also submit to you that the vast majority of HDTV owners have a surround sound setup, or at least an a/v receiver. So this functionality should be a must have for HDTVs. But it's not, probably because the manufacturers eventually want you to upgrade your receiver soon too. Probably sooner than should be necessary, or you want to.

Of course this is a lot of argument over a second cable that will run you from 20 to 50 bucks (except it is PER device) depending on length. But the issue is functionality. We should be able to run all our HDMI devices, integrated hd tuners, and IEEE 'digital audio' through the tv, and into ONE input on the receiver. using ONE cable from the TV. that single cable factor is the selling point of HDMI including the audio signal. Maybe this would not be ideal for your setup, maybe I wouldn't like doing it that way, but the functionality should be included, the option available. Of course there is a lot to be said about having seperate inputs for everything. Tweaking settings on my receiver is great fun to experiment with, so by no means do I advocate elliminating the option to seperately connect.

As for the $350, that is how much Gefens website lists their 2x1 HDMI switcher w/audio. The one that Does Not extract the audio is $250. And as enticing as this option sounds, it still would be a second cable (essentially running from the TV). And thats $350 bucks that should be spent on speakers or a receiver or media.

Hit me back if you still disagree. but in the manual, which you quoted in a previous post: Does it mention HDMI audio at all? What is not said can be left to your interpretation. I conclude that it doesn't do it, or they would brag about it. Not saying that it does it means it doesn't do it.

But, the tv comes tomorrow anyway, even with all the bad posts on the DVR and finding out about the audio thing I chose this TV to replace the JVC dila (which replaced a philips lcos).

Alas, I don't have an HDMI DVD player, which would solve this mystery.

I Called the store again b4 posting this, they will hook it all up and let me know in an hour. 1:30 pacific time.

mfabien · 11-22-2004, 04:15 PM

Asking members of Audioholics (those who are using HDMI) to comment on your statement and will be back to you in this thread.

rudyusmc1980 · 11-22-2004, 04:20 PM

The store was kind enough to hook it all up, and they could not get the HDMI audio to come out of the TV. This television has an extensive menu system though, so I will of course fiddle with it tomorrow. I will also attempt to get a response from Mitsubishi.

Any help would be great, as we all agree this is something of a necessity.

ttyl
rudy

mfabien · 11-22-2004, 04:33 PM

I see, ok will let you know when I get a reply. Seems incredible!

mfabien · 11-23-2004, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudyusmc1980

The store was kind enough to hook it all up, and they could not get the HDMI audio to come out of the TV. This television has an extensive menu system though, so I will of course fiddle with it tomorrow. I will also attempt to get a response from Mitsubishi.

Any help would be great, as we all agree this is something of a necessity.

ttyl
rudy

What STB are you using? Is it a STB/DVR by any chance?

rudyusmc1980 · 11-23-2004, 08:23 AM

I am pretty sure that it was a DVD player (that is what I asked them to hook up, but I did not confirm), probably a Sony or Philips. Those are the brands of upconverting players this store has.

Maybe Santa will bring me a new DVD this Christmas! But for now it sure looks like HDMI is a more expensive DVI cable!

mfabien · 11-25-2004, 06:28 AM

rudyusmc1980,

Concerning whether an HDTV connected to a STB via an HDMI input returns a digital signal via its back panel output to an a/v receiver with appropriate sound tracks to produce DD 5.1 sound...

...answers to my questions in two other Forums are not coming in. It could very well be that they are very few combinations STB and HDTV with HDMI out there at this time complete with an a/v component.

But chances are that the TV's are or will process DD 2.0 sound tracks only, because they can only reproduce sound for their 2 speakers' configuration. We have yet to learn if this will be an industry choice that the TV's digital audio output will not carry the complete sound tracks.

I know this is not what you want to hear but my Yamaha a/v carries 4 optical digital input and one coaxial digital input. Presently I use 1 coaxial cable for the DVD and 1 optical cable for the STB/DVR. The THX Fiber Optic cable and the THX coaxial cable cost me a total of $100 CDN or approx. $ 82 US. That represents 4% of my investment in my sound system. Truthfully when I purchased the system, I didn't even ask how much these 2 cables would cost...

11-18-2004, 11:12 PM	#1
rudyusmc1980 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: McAllen, TX Posts: 709	Mits WD62525 HDMI dig audio output? Does this set pass the digital audio from an HDMI device to an A/V receiver? so far all I can confirm is that the coax dig audio output works for DTV signals. I have not seen if it does or does not pass HDMI audio. Basically HDMI audio is a crock of manure if tv manufacturers won't support audio output to a receiver.

11-19-2004, 05:58 AM	#2
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	In the back panel, there's the digital audio output over the cable card slot. See it at: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/common/...-E8A119959B21} Page 13 for illustration and paragraph 12 on page 14 for description. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

11-22-2004, 05:09 AM	#4
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	Top line receivers are just coming out with HDMI input/output ports. But they cost a bunch of $$$$. There is really no justification to invest so much money in a receiver if it is simply for switching Video. One can use an HDMI switch box such as Gefen's illustrated at: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/hdmi-2x1-switch.htm A TV manufacturer would produce it's latest HDTV models with an HDMI input (rather than a DVI) and in doing so, would include a digital audio output in the back panel because for HT users need to use an audio amplifier/processor. HDMI incorporates digital audio and there's no loss of data by shifting the digital audio from the TV to the amplifier/processor. Note: Any HDTV equipped with an HDMI input should have a digital audio output port. If not, the unit should not be purchased...it would take a dumb manufacturer to have done that. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1 Last edited by mfabien; 11-22-2004 at 05:13 AM.

11-22-2004, 06:17 AM	#6
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	Ok I now see what you meant. The TV with HDMI can use it's speakers for DD2 and most have SRS. It is surprising to see the extent of surround sound a big TV can deliver. In fact one can select 5.1, say on a DVD setup, and get something close to surround. Of course, there is no match to the use of a quality amplifier/processor and good speakers. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

11-22-2004, 12:39 PM	#8
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	I'm not sure I fully understand what you are talking about... but I'll take a chance to add to my previous posts, HDMI is a connection from a device, such as a STB box, to another device, such as a HDTV, and the data transmitted on that kind of cable is both Video and audio in uncompressed digital format. Now you can keep the audio in device 2, the TV, and use the TV speakers for DD stereo and even surround sound if you enable SRS in your TV's audio options. If your STB box has a DVI instead of HDMI, even if you use a special cable converting DVI to HDMI you no longer carry audio in that cable. Many HDTV users who have somekind of Home Theater setup use an A/V receiver instead of using the TV's speaker system. For those people the HDMI cable requires them to get the digital sound from the TV instead of the STB box. Thus the requirement to install a digital cable (optical or coax, as it applies) from the TV to the A/V. That's the best I can do here. Now what is this $350 you are talking about and what exactly is your beef against the manufacturers? __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

11-21-2004, 10:39 PM	#3
maximus user Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 903	I'm not sure what's involved in switching the HDMI audio signal to an optical/coax output inside the TV, it shouldn't be a cost issue in such an expensive set. I just don't think the TV makers feel it's necessary to include this (hopefully they'll change). HDMI switching AV receivers offer a solution to this and that is probably the way most CE manufacturers want it to be, to entice us to buy them. Unfortunately HDMI won't show some of its key benefits until all of our components are capable.

11-22-2004, 05:56 AM	#5
maximus user Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 903	IIRC the digital audio output on Integrated HDTVs (and any other ATSC receiving device) has to by law include that output, because HD is Dolby Digital (mandatory). So you would need a 5.1 AV receiver regardless, there are no HDTVs that can play back 5.1 by themselves. My point is that HDMI inputs on a HDTV have nothing to do with the built-in tuner or its DD output (unfortunately).

11-22-2004, 08:44 AM	#7
rudyusmc1980 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: McAllen, TX Posts: 709	Why should I have to spend an extra $350 when this functionality should be built in? Maximus had it right about the CE makers. Certainly having the audio go from tv to reciever wouldn't hurt any HDCP. or would it? I guess that in theory, you could record a CD of your Desperate Houswives show and listen to it while you jog. but We Can Already Do That Anyways!!! Why did I choose this as a hobby? Why not golf? (hated it) Why not beer? (already do that recreationally) How about as a career instead of hobby? (I can design it better) Anyone else think they can do a better job than their engineers? at least at functionality?

11-22-2004, 02:37 PM	#9
rudyusmc1980 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: McAllen, TX Posts: 709	My beef is this: No television currently on the market, that I know of, will take a 5.1 audio stream from an HDMI cable and send it to an A/V receiver. They won't do it. They will send 5.1 dig audio from a cable card, from an OTA tuner, and in the case of the mitsu I originally posted about- from IEEE. PHP Code: `Many HDTV users who have somekind of Home Theater setup use an A/V receiver instead of using the TVs speaker system. For those people the HDMI cable requires them to get the digital sound from the TV instead of the STB box. Thus the requirement to install a digital cable (optical or coax, as it applies) from the TV to the A/V.` Wrong. The TV will not send 5.1 dig audio from the TV to the a/v receiver when the audio stream originated from HDMI. You will have to use an audio cable from the STB to the a/v receiver in order to get 5.1. The only way around this is an HDMI switching a/v receiver, currently around $4k! (plus a SECOND HDMI cable to go from the receiver to the TV!) I would also submit to you that the vast majority of HDTV owners have a surround sound setup, or at least an a/v receiver. So this functionality should be a must have for HDTVs. But it's not, probably because the manufacturers eventually want you to upgrade your receiver soon too. Probably sooner than should be necessary, or you want to. Of course this is a lot of argument over a second cable that will run you from 20 to 50 bucks (except it is PER device) depending on length. But the issue is functionality. We should be able to run all our HDMI devices, integrated hd tuners, and IEEE 'digital audio' through the tv, and into ONE input on the receiver. using ONE cable from the TV. that single cable factor is the selling point of HDMI including the audio signal. Maybe this would not be ideal for your setup, maybe I wouldn't like doing it that way, but the functionality should be included, the option available. Of course there is a lot to be said about having seperate inputs for everything. Tweaking settings on my receiver is great fun to experiment with, so by no means do I advocate elliminating the option to seperately connect. As for the $350, that is how much Gefens website lists their 2x1 HDMI switcher w/audio. The one that Does Not extract the audio is $250. And as enticing as this option sounds, it still would be a second cable (essentially running from the TV). And thats $350 bucks that should be spent on speakers or a receiver or media. Hit me back if you still disagree. but in the manual, which you quoted in a previous post: Does it mention HDMI audio at all? What is not said can be left to your interpretation. I conclude that it doesn't do it, or they would brag about it. Not saying that it does it means it doesn't do it. But, the tv comes tomorrow anyway, even with all the bad posts on the DVR and finding out about the audio thing I chose this TV to replace the JVC dila (which replaced a philips lcos). Alas, I don't have an HDMI DVD player, which would solve this mystery. I Called the store again b4 posting this, they will hook it all up and let me know in an hour. 1:30 pacific time.

11-22-2004, 04:15 PM	#10
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	Asking members of Audioholics (those who are using HDMI) to comment on your statement and will be back to you in this thread. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

11-22-2004, 04:20 PM	#11
rudyusmc1980 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: McAllen, TX Posts: 709	The store was kind enough to hook it all up, and they could not get the HDMI audio to come out of the TV. This television has an extensive menu system though, so I will of course fiddle with it tomorrow. I will also attempt to get a response from Mitsubishi. Any help would be great, as we all agree this is something of a necessity. ttyl rudy

11-22-2004, 04:33 PM	#12
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	I see, ok will let you know when I get a reply. Seems incredible! __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

11-23-2004, 08:23 AM	#14
rudyusmc1980 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: McAllen, TX Posts: 709	Stb I am pretty sure that it was a DVD player (that is what I asked them to hook up, but I did not confirm), probably a Sony or Philips. Those are the brands of upconverting players this store has. Maybe Santa will bring me a new DVD this Christmas! But for now it sure looks like HDMI is a more expensive DVI cable!

11-25-2004, 06:28 AM	#15
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	rudyusmc1980, Concerning whether an HDTV connected to a STB via an HDMI input returns a digital signal via its back panel output to an a/v receiver with appropriate sound tracks to produce DD 5.1 sound... ...answers to my questions in two other Forums are not coming in. It could very well be that they are very few combinations STB and HDTV with HDMI out there at this time complete with an a/v component. But chances are that the TV's are or will process DD 2.0 sound tracks only, because they can only reproduce sound for their 2 speakers' configuration. We have yet to learn if this will be an industry choice that the TV's digital audio output will not carry the complete sound tracks. I know this is not what you want to hear but my Yamaha a/v carries 4 optical digital input and one coaxial digital input. Presently I use 1 coaxial cable for the DVD and 1 optical cable for the STB/DVR. The THX Fiber Optic cable and the THX coaxial cable cost me a total of $100 CDN or approx. $ 82 US. That represents 4% of my investment in my sound system. Truthfully when I purchased the system, I didn't even ask how much these 2 cables would cost... __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1