The Government Way

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Not to say I disagree with what you are saying...but I hope you are equally as passionate regarding politicians, who get free health care, excellent pay, jet set lifestyle, lifetime benefits, start unnecessary wars, etc. while screwing up the economy in the process... Citizens argue and bicker amongst themselves (left vs right) while politicians and media are tickled pink and getting richer...

Well, most seem to have it pretty easy don't they?

Sadly, there is a vacuum in leadership. It can come from either side.

In fact, I will applaud the man who truly tries to bring both sides to the table and do what's best for all Americans and not just the haves.

I see Barrack trying to do that. I really do.

Problem is, there is such a mess, economy, Afghanistan, Iraq, cultural wars (right vs left, religion and politics, gay rights, abortion) and so much more.

Did we mention health care?

Who can tackle all that and truly succeed?

Where is the man of steel when we need him?

It is going to take both parties working together to solve these problems.

Bipartisanship must truly rise for we to see the benefit.

There is a lot we won't agree on.

Religious issues a big problem when it comes to camps cropping up.

That has to stop.

Seriously. That has to stop.

I don't want the Taliban holding court here any more than I want Orthodox Jews, the fundamentalist Chrisitan, Mormon church or seeing Burkas at the Miss American contest.

Debates about religious issues should not be issues.

Freedom and justice FOR ALL should be. That includes freedom from religion.

Now, some of you may disagree and think that's the problem with America. God has left town.

If you want God so bad, go to church and pray all you want. Then practice love, tolerance and acts of kindness.

Bombing an abortion clinic and killing a doctor dosn't strike me as very Christian.

It's the economy stupid!

I know it's a lot here and a lot of different directions. Hell, I didin't start this thread. I'm just participating.

[Ntruder]

Socialism, government sucks, blah blah blah. I am dumber now after reading this thread.

[PFC5]

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Not to say I disagree with what you are saying...but I hope you are equally as passionate regarding politicians, who get free health care, excellent pay, jet set lifestyle, lifetime benefits, start unnecessary wars, etc. while screwing up the economy in the process... Citizens argue and bicker amongst themselves (left vs right) while politicians and media are tickled pink and getting richer...

I am equally offended and upset about the politicians also. I simple have lost nearly all trust in them on most things. They care more abut their part than they do about the country and what is best both short term & long term for this country IMO, but they most put themselves before anything else.

Why should a House of Rep serve a single 2 year term and then get that pay for the rest of his life as a pension? Why do we limit presidential terms but not Congressional terms? AFAIAC, the longer they stay in Congress, the more time the find to work the system and become even more corrupt. I say 2 terms for Congress also and a much lower pension system payout that is mostly based on SS with a possible small supplement like many jobs have.

[hakstone]

Originally Posted by DoctorCAD

Runs what show?

Profit is not a bad thing, how do you expect your bank accounts and 401k's to go up without profit?

Go elsewhere if you don't want to live in a free market.

Have you looked at your 401K lately ?

That love it or leave it attitude was old in the 60s

[mshulman]

Originally Posted by DonnyDC

Isnt this over 5 years? so thats 3.6 million per year.
Still seems like alot but Im not sure how much people value the whole accountability initiative.

I did some more reading on this.

It is over 5 years. And it doesn't just cover the cost of the site, but the hardware, hosting..etc. As a comparison, I saw something that said facebook (without staff) costs about 6 million a year to operate. So I think its a bit more reasonable then it sounded at first, although I question how much activity the site would get.

Who even knows about the site? I don't think anyone here did prior to this post.

[Small Engine]

I hope everyone that is posting in this thread and complaining about our Goverment has at least Voted and If you didnt vote in the last election, you should excuse yourself from posting your comments.. IMHO

I forget what they call a person that complains about our goverment but dosnt vote ?

[VideeO]

Originally Posted by Small Engine

I hope everyone that is posting in this thread and complaining about our Goverment has at least Voted and If you didnt vote in the last election, you should excuse yourself from posting your comments.. IMHO

Sorry to say, but there's no law that says a person must vote;
nor is there any restriction on any citizen's right to complain - whether they vote or not.

That would be almost akin to saying if you voted for candidate A you have not right to complain about his/her performance - silly.

[/quote]I forget what they call a person that complains about our goverment but dosnt vote ? [/quote]
A citizen.

[PFC5]

Originally Posted by Small Engine

I hope everyone that is posting in this thread and complaining about our Goverment has at least Voted and If you didnt vote in the last election, you should excuse yourself from posting your comments.. IMHO

I forget what they call a person that complains about our goverment but dosnt vote ?

I have voted since the first election when i turned 18. My older brother use to always complain about gov't & politicians, but when i asked him who he voted for, he said why bother voting? I told him at least he did HIS PART by voting and then could legitimately complain since he tried. He still complains, but he now votes whenever there is an election.

Originally Posted by VideeO

Sorry to say, but there's no law that says a person must vote;
nor is there any restriction on any citizen's right to complain - whether they vote or not.

That would be almost akin to saying if you voted for candidate A you have not right to complain about his/her performance - silly.

I forget what they call a person that complains about our goverment but dosnt vote ?
A citizen.

Your right you can complain even if you don't vote, but IMO it means much less if you don't vote.

The correct answer is that you are only a "spectator" if you complain but do not vote and try to solve the problem by being an ACTIVE citizen by voting.

People in many countries are dying to have their vote heard so we should all remember that and do our civic duty and to be involved in our country by being ACTIVE citizens.

/rant off/

[VideeO]

Originally Posted by PFC5

The correct answer is that you are only a "spectator" if you complain but do not vote and try to solve the problem by being an ACTIVE citizen by voting.

Calling a person who does not vote a "spectator" isn't much different than calling a person who does vote a "player".
Both are opinionated and indicate bias.

There are many people who show up on the first Tuesday of November and believe that their civic responsibility has been met.

There are also people who don't necessarily always vote, but turn out every month for local council meetings, find the time to write intelligent and provacative letters to their congressmen (both state and federal), and actively participate in thier government.

Sorry, just because a person has voted does not make them a better citizen; nor does it afford them any particular "right" to complain.

[hatt]

Originally Posted by mshulman

I did some more reading on this.

It is over 5 years. And it doesn't just cover the cost of the site, but the hardware, hosting..etc. As a comparison, I saw something that said facebook (without staff) costs about 6 million a year to operate. So I think its a bit more reasonable then it sounded at first, although I question how much activity the site would get.

Who even knows about the site? I don't think anyone here did prior to this post.

That's like saying since some celeb's mansion cost $30 million it's reasonable to pay $5 million for a trailer in a trailer park. Facebook and recovery.gov are in separate leagues. Recovery.gov is probably close to HDF in the web traffic category.

[Small Engine]

Originally Posted by hatt

http://blogs.abcnews.com

Yep, health care is going to be cheap once .gov controls it. I mean look, it's only costing them $18,000,000 to redesign a website.

at you silly taxpayers.

Well if their gona spend that kinda of money to build a web site, I hope they have a forum area where we can aleast Rant and Complain about it.

[mshulman]

Originally Posted by hatt

That's like saying since some celeb's mansion cost $30 million it's reasonable to pay $5 million for a trailer in a trailer park. Facebook and recovery.gov are in separate leagues. Recovery.gov is probably close to HDF in the web traffic category.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The key is the expected/potential traffic and function of the site. If the site becomes more widely known and used, then every web surfer in the US is subject to use it and they'd need to plan for this. It may also be much more widely used then we realize and from additional reading, seems the usage will grow very quickly.

I'm not justifying the cost though, I'm just pointing out how its not exactly straight forward. The facebook cost is the operating cost too - not the cost to build the infrastructure, code the site...etc. Purly yearly operating costs at 6 mil!

Reading the info on the recovery.org site about the rebuild does make the numbers sound a bit more reasonable and not as crazy as they first sound. The money is covering everything associated with the site from A-Z.

Originally Posted by www.recovery.org

The initial outlay, $9,516,324, covers many facets: redesign and construction of a new website; installation of hardware and software infrastructure; hosting and operations for the website; more robust data storage; an enhanced content-management system; and contract labor support and other features. If the Recovery Board exercises options under the contract, the cost could total $17,948,518 over a period ending in January 2014.

And here is a link outlining the entire project: http://www.scribd.com/doc/16515421/R...d-Solicitation

I'm still not sure the price is really justified, but I certainly don't feel its as out of whack as I initial thought upon first reading this thread.

[tipstir]

Originally Posted by hatt

Damn dude, I'd rather see the money go towards marble walls and all the rest of the stuff you list than it just disappear into special interests hands somewhere. At least someone gets paid to mine the stone, cut, finish, transport, install and clean that shit.

Just answer this one question.
You think $18 mil is reasonable to redesign a fairly simple website?

No insurance company should be spending that type of money on stuff they don't need to make the corp company look like a palace for what reason? Then charge you more in premiums. If you don't mine them doing that then go a head and spend your money.

Next time you visit your insurance company head over to the corporate building then go up to the corp executive floor and check out what you're paying for. Waste!

[hatt]

Originally Posted by tipstir

No insurance company should be spending that type of money on stuff they don't need to make the corp company look like a palace for what reason? Then charge you more in premiums. If you don't mine them doing that then go a head and spend your money.

Next time you visit your insurance company head over to the corporate building then go up to the corp executive floor and check out what you're paying for. Waste!

It's THEIR company and after you write the check, THEIR money; they can spend THEIR money how they want. You don't like it, just scour the land looking for the company with the double wide as their home office. Clearly that's the best company for you since they would be more responsible with your money.

[PFC5]

Originally Posted by tipstir

No insurance company should be spending that type of money on stuff they don't need to make the corp company look like a palace for what reason? Then charge you more in premiums. If you don't mine them doing that then go a head and spend your money.

Next time you visit your insurance company head over to the corporate building then go up to the corp executive floor and check out what you're paying for. Waste!

And you do not think the gov't is the biggest waster of money?

Who pays $1,600.00 for a toilet seat, $2,200.00 for a hammer, etc etc, besides our gov't?