Thank You Democrats/Communist -US state wants to tax TVs, video games to fight fat

[junehhan]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete

Well if we could, send them back!

However, I just can't see the logistics in undertaking such a massive task.

However, you must take the benefit of coming here and here is how.

Exactly how I feel! The reason they are moving here in droves, is because the economic opportunities are much greater here than they are in their own country. These people arn't stoopid and they have come to the realization that it is worth it, even when they calculate the economic risks they take as all we will do is simply deport them. If that happens, no biggie as they simply try again. When you are that poor as these people are, it is no loss because the economic costs of their time are so cheap to begin with. This is partially why poorer less developed countries have significantly higher birth rates. Raise the costs of coming here and take away their economic benefit, and they'll think twice.

Please forward to any politician who will listen.

1. Children of illegal immigrants will not be granted automatic citizenship.



2. Proof of citizenship is required for enrollment in schools.



3. Proof of citizenship is required for employment with heavy fines and penalties to employers who do not comply.

This is exactly it! Let's introduce some laws of economics into this issue with employers being more than glad to utilize illegal labour. The reason that they don't hesitate to hire illegals, is because the benefits of using illegal labour is much higher than the consequences of being caught. Let's face it, the penalty for being caught is a $5000 fine, which is trivial to a big construction or lawn maintanence firm. RAISE the costs of the consequences higher than the benefits that employers derive from illegal labour, and you have solved this problem. Firms arn't stupid and will not cease any activity that is not profitable for them. They only use illegals because the fines are so light that it is far more profitable to just pay the fine every time they get caught. My proposal for this is

1st Violation, $5000 fine
2nd Violation and any subsequent violations, minimum $250,000 fine + 90 days in jail.


4. Proof of citizenship is required for any kind of government assistance, state or federal. No Medi Cal, in home support services, Medicare, nothing.

You read my mind. This again ties into my response for the begininning of your response in terms of the fact that you are only providing further economic incentives for illegal migration by giving them aide.

5. Illegal immigrants caught in the US will serve 2 years in prison. After all, they are committing a crime. A second offense will be more severe.

Considering a prisoner costs on average $30k of taxpayer funds per year, it would probably be much cheaper to just ship them back in the back of a van.

Why such tough talk? It is obvious, 13 million illegal immigrants here in this country.

They get free education and health care and their children compete with ours for jobs.

Many commit crimes. Many drain other state and government resources.

This is exactly it! I believe that immigration is good for any country because it allows for the exchange and development of ideas. The problem becomes when you let the wrong types of people into your country, or worse have virtually no ability to even monitor who is illegally coming in or not. I believe a system similar to the Canadian immigration system is a great model as you let people enter based on qualifications.

If you remove the benefits and make it unattractive to come here, you can stem the tide.

My new friend! I think you would make one heck of an economist!

Most important, Mexico must change it's practice of dealing with it's people and the US must exert pressure on them to do so.

yup!

If we are serious about illegal immigration we must be willing to get tough to stop it.

That's tought when politicians are so frickin crooked with the corruption of special interests. They are also not going to potentially neuter a future voting base as well, as there are so many of them who not only want to give them amnesty, but are looking for the day when they'll be able to vote.

Unfortunately, many city and state laws are having difficulties with enforcement because it is the federal government's role to stop it.

That depends, they have really stepped things up at the county and state level here in OH. To a certain extent, I believe it is a state's responsibility although i'm not determined as far as what the Federal government's role should be.

Well then, stop it. I just gave you some good ways to do it.

I told ya that we have a lot more in common

Now back to my work as i'm horribly behind and was just taking a quick break to catch up on HD related gossip..........

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete

Nice response.

I have to disagree with you on the states rights issue though. Unfortunately, there are many areas of the country that wish to impose draconian practices on their citizens.

In fact, that was why the civil war was fought as you very well know, states rights.

Anyone who has ever taken a math test knows there is prayer in school.

And you will find few who disagree with individuals expressing themselves and having a moment, after class, to do their thing.

However, fortunately, for the masses, the leaders have not been extreme enough to carry the agenda the Christian right has which is to do what I said in my previous answer.

More and more catering has been done for this group and one can only shudder the damage they could do should they continue the practice of changing the landscape of the supreme court.

I applaud you on your educative achievements and goals.

There is much we can agree on but sadly much we still disagree on.

The Christian Right is taking over the Republican party and for all it's good will and effort, that scares people like me to death.

I bet we can agree on illegal immigration. Again, see my previous paragraph.

You have proven what a hard-core anti-Christian bigot you really are. You see innocent people trying to pray and bother nobody as a threat to your freedom because of your hate. The Republican Party is not even remotly controlled by the Christian right. If it was I garuntee that Juan McAmnesty would not be our nominee. All Christians want and have ever wanted is respect and equality with non-Christains but that is unacceptable for you. My Christ have mercy on your soul

[F91]

Would you go as far as calling Neo-Cons fascists? NO? Why not?

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

I wouldn't go as far as calling them Communists, but socialists they definitely are.

[F91]

True democracy is a "form" of socialism. The "common good".

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

Really? Base this on what?

Socialism - A system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Give me any issue from economics, to health care, to education, I will show you that the Democrat Party proposals, acts, bills, legislation, or platform is a form of socialism...This tax proposal being just one example.

[Ntruder]

Originally Posted by F91

True democracy is a "form" of socialism. The "common good".

helping others is a bad thing according to most conservatives. They call it "allowing people to achieve their potential." (another way of saying "fuck everyone else, its all about me")

[DodgerKing]

Originally Posted by Ntruder

helping others is a bad thing according to most conservatives. They call it "allowing people to achieve their potential." (another way of saying "fuck everyone else, its all about me")

Really? I already posted a link that shows that conservatives give more than liberals, donate a higher percentage of their salary on the average to charity than liberal, all while earning less money on the average than liberal. So, I guess most conservatives don't think helping others is a bad thing.

I have also explained in a prior post, how I spend a lot of my own personal time and a lot of my working time, helping my students, most of whom are poor and dependent on government assistance, to become independent and successful (i.e. college and job applications, financial aid, tutoring, ex).

Looks like your assumptions about conservatives is simply not true???

Here is how conservatives truly feel about government aid:

Most, like myself, believe that the private sector can do a better job and is more efficient and more effective at helping those in need. We feel that the government bureaucracy is too inefficiently, not getting enough of what is needed to those in need, and it creates a system of dependency. Because of this, we prefer to have the private sector handle most of the assistance. We want to downsize the bureaucracy of the government so it is more efficient with its real constitutional obligations (i.e. national security, interstate commerce, ex).

[DodgerKing]

Originally Posted by F91

Would you go as far as calling Neo-Cons fascists? NO? Why not?

If you can demonstrate how "Neo-Cons" policies and ideals fit under the defining characteristics of fascism, then I guess so?

(Not what you think neo-cons stand for, but their realistic ideology)

[junehhan]

Originally Posted by Ntruder

helping others is a bad thing according to most conservatives. They call it "allowing people to achieve their potential." (another way of saying "fuck everyone else, its all about me")

Most conservatives follow more in the train of thought of people like Adam Smith in that they don't actively believe in screwing others over for their own gain, and that society is rather efficient at rewarding those who work to obtain their goals. Philosophers like Ayn Rand are the ones who basically said that we should fuck each other over.

Democracy is rule by the people, although I believe we are more of a republic since true democracy is mob rule. Socialism is something with a noble purpose, and while it works better than communism, it still doesn't work the way that it has been perverted by many left wing European liberal wannabe politicians. If socialsim works so well, why is unemployment so high in Europe? We are crying about our 5.1% unemployment rate, while we forget that Europe is usually around twice that, with regions of Germany being 4 times that value. The fact that socialism isn't working is seen in France as they are now trying to desperately head in the other direction now, along with Germany. Socialism is not sustainable when all it does is create an atmosphere of generational parasites who become unable to live for themselves.

Socialism has become nothing more than a tool to enact a redistribution of wealth from those who worked to earn their status in life, to those who did not. We are seeing great examples of socialism and it's effects today as New Orleans was a perfect example of what happens when you throw away incentives for people to better themselves. I find it unacceptable that there was a generational welfare problem this severe where nearly 1/4th of an entire major US city was on welfare. There is nothing that is stronger at motivating people than a hungry stomach and a little poverty or cold. The act of avoiding a life of misery is a very strong incentive and is why most of us here have dedicated our lives to making ourselves productive members of society by building up our human capital, so that we can command a higher wage on the labour market. Many of these liberals like to creat animosity against the wealthy by painting them as glutonous people like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, and so on. Many of the wealthy have reached that status because they were willing to work, create, and take on risks that others were not willing. There got to where they are because they put in the effort and are people like Dick Cheney(one of my personal heroes), Mitt Romney(good buisnessman, but would be a bad president), and that one head of Brynwood Partners that I can't think of. The common factor in the 3 people I just mentioned here are that they are all self made men, and arn't there simply because daddy left them a gigantic trust fund. Do you think that such levels of social mobility would be possible with a euro-socialistic style of government?

You think i'm a cruel person, i'm not. I only believe in this for people who are more than capable of helping themselves. For people who are elderly, or unable to care for themselves, that is an entirely different story. One thing for sure is that socialism creates the free-rider hazard. Why work for something if it will be provided for you at the expense of someone else? Germany is a good example as you can actually make a pretty decent living on the government dole. Last I heard, welfare there equated to $900-1100 a month in welfare checks, which is why Germany and France are now desperately trying to go into the other direction. Jacques Chirac didn't have the balls, but this new guy appears to be getting tough in reversing the harm that socialism has wreaked. I know for one thing, is that I do not go to school full time, and work 2 part time jobs just to help some poor guy who doesn't want to help himself. The government should function as a worst case scenario last resort assistance giver, not a freestore to someone who is able to, but unwilling to make a living for themselves, or to take care of themselves. It doesn't mean i'm against helping people, it just means that i'm not willing to give someone a fish, although i'm willing to teach them how to fish.

[DodgerKing]

Interesting graph:

[DodgerKing]

My results:



Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.23

Not a very accurate test as it does not make distinctions between what one feels the government should or shouldn't do and what individuals should or shouldn't do. But, interesting still...

Test

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

You have proven what a hard-core anti-Christian bigot you really are. You see innocent people trying to pray and bother nobody as a threat to your freedom because of your hate. The Republican Party is not even remotly controlled by the Christian right. If it was I garuntee that Juan McAmnesty would not be our nominee. All Christians want and have ever wanted is respect and equality with non-Christains but that is unacceptable for you. My Christ have mercy on your soul

Anti Christian Bigot?

Please sir. That was not only uncalled for but inappropriate and wrong.

I strongly support religious freedom and the practice of religion. However, look what has happened to many religious groups in this country.

They have united on a crusade to promote their ideology. Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchannon and many more have used their pulpits and television and radio programs to promote their agenda and encourage people en mass to vote against democratic leaders.

Why? Restrict and overturn abortion, establish religous teachings in school with prayer, teach creationism as a science, oppress homosexuals and lesbians.

Now, please tell me I am wrong because that's how I see it.

To me, organized religion promoting legislative practice is contrary to church status and freedom from tax exemptions as such.

Jim Jones was a nut, David Koresh was a nut and so are these other lunatics who practice their own venomous hate to people.

I would not want a Jewish state in the US or a Muslum state, Budist and I don't want a Christian state either.

You are free to practice and believe any way you want and God bless you sir for doing so.

I have always said if Christians acted more like Jesus the world would be a better place.

Today people professing to be Christians picket the funerals of dead US soldiers calling it God's condemnation of homosexuality.

Others bomb abortion clinics.

Others kill and stalk abortion providers.

Who's the nut?

Practice what you will. Please do not impose it on me or anyone else.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete

Anti Christian Bigot?

Please sir. That was not only uncalled for but inappropriate and wrong.

I strongly support religious freedom and the practice of religion. However, look what has happened to many religious groups in this country.

They have united on a crusade to promote their ideology. Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchannon and many more have used their pulpits and television and radio programs to promote their agenda and encourage people en mass to vote against democratic leaders.

Why? Restrict and overturn abortion, establish religous teachings in school with prayer, teach creationism as a science, oppress homosexuals and lesbians.

Now, please tell me I am wrong because that's how I see it.

To me, organized religion promoting legislative practice is contrary to church status and freedom from tax exemptions as such.

Jim Jones was a nut, David Koresh was a nut and so are these other lunatics who practice their own venomous hate to people.

I would not want a Jewish state in the US or a Muslum state, Budist and I don't want a Christian state either.

You are free to practice and believe any way you want and God bless you sir for doing so.

I have always said if Christians acted more like Jesus the world would be a better place.

Today people professing to be Christians picket the funerals of dead US soldiers calling it God's condemnation of homosexuality.

Others bomb abortion clinics.

Others kill and stalk abortion providers.

Who's the nut?

Practice what you will. Please do not impose it on me or anyone else.

The nuts are the people who are fucking slaughtering Americas children by the millions. Guess what is not Christians its you liberals. While the abortionists you praise are stabing children to death, burning them to death, skinning them, and pull their little limbs off you call that choice I call it genocide.

Phelps and his nuts who protest funerals are not Christians they are scum of the Earth who are just addicted to hate. Phelps hate is phycological and has nothing to do with the Bible.

As for creationism I myself don't belive in creation I believe in intelligent Design which is completly different from Creationism and is based on scientific evidence not Christianity or any other religon.

[DodgerKing]

In all fairness, I did NOT see anything from Pete that would suggest bigotry towards Christians. I interpreted his words as being fearful of Religion influencing politics or being intertwined within it.

[Ntruder]

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

Really? I already posted a link that shows that conservatives give more than liberals, donate a higher percentage of their salary on the average to charity than liberal, all while earning less money on the average than liberal. So, I guess most conservatives don't think helping others is a bad thing.

I have also explained in a prior post, how I spend a lot of my own personal time and a lot of my working time, helping my students, most of whom are poor and dependent on government assistance, to become independent and successful (i.e. college and job applications, financial aid, tutoring, ex).

Looks like your assumptions about conservatives is simply not true???

Here is how conservatives truly feel about government aid:

Most, like myself, believe that the private sector can do a better job and is more efficient and more effective at helping those in need. We feel that the government bureaucracy is too inefficiently, not getting enough of what is needed to those in need, and it creates a system of dependency. Because of this, we prefer to have the private sector handle most of the assistance. We want to downsize the bureaucracy of the government so it is more efficient with its real constitutional obligations (i.e. national security, interstate commerce, ex).

If Republicans donate more than Democrats, its because most super rich people are Republicans, and they'll donate to reap the tax benefits.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

In all fairness, I did NOT see anything from Pete that would suggest bigotry towards Christians. I interpreted his words as being fearful of Religion influencing politics or being intertwined within it.

Liberals can't see bigotry towards Christians because in the mind of a liberal Christians always deserve it. Pistol Pete basically makes the case thats its wrong for Christianity to have any say in the government despite the fact that most of the country are Christians. Well I say liberals shouldn't have a say in government because liberals make up even less of a percentage of the population then Christians. Bigots like Pete wants Christians to keep it to ourselves well we don't have to. Its a free country and Christians have every right to express themselves in public and in government as much as any other group.

Liberals like Pistole Pete are theatened by Christianity because it trys to influence morality which is things liberals can't stand. Liberals hate morality its why they can kill children by the millions like they do while at the same time protesting the execution of a murderur and crying at the slightest uncomfertable treatment of an Islamic terrorist. Christianity is the only thing standing between order and tyranny.