Thank You Democrats/Communist -US state wants to tax TVs, video games to fight fat

[Ntruder]

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

What should the government do (These are just a few things off the top of my head)?

1. Punish companies that violate laws
2. Stop corporate welfare
3. Stop government buyouts
4. Decrease regulations and tax burden to decrease the likelihood of companies finding cheep labor abroad
5. Secure the borders to prevent slave labor from driving down labor cost of others (even Cesar Chavez saw the inverse relationship between illegal immigration labor and labor salary).

Holy shit? Who is this guy?

The only thing I don't completely agree with in this is 4. We should have strong tariffs and trade barriers to protect American companies, not just provide tax rewards for those who stay. your way both decreases tax revenue and will still not be cheaper than sending your company abroad.

[Ntruder]

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

Thank you for taking the time. I will just let you have the last word from this particular post. We have both said pretty much what we need to say and I don't feel like responding to long multi-issue post anymore. I wouldn't mind, however, discussing one topic at a time at our own pace. (My wife is getting mad because I am spending too much time on the internet ). I think discussing the disparity between CEO and worker pay is a good single issue for now. I replied above. Feel free to respond or post your own response when you get a chance.

Take it easy and I'll catch-up with you later....

As per your last post, we are finally getting somewhere; finding some common ground. And I'd wager that our ends are very similar; its our means that differ

[DodgerKing]

Originally Posted by junehhan

edit: I am starting to think some people just might have a little too much free time

I agree there. I have actually spent more time on this board than I have on writing my thesis (called procrastination), my wife (called stupid), my own students during my free time, and my own personal time. I need to take a break for a while. Every time I close my eyes all I see is a computer monitor...

[junehhan]

Originally Posted by DodgerKing

I agree there. I have actually spent more time on this board than I have on writing my thesis (called procrastination), my wife (called stupid), my own students during my free time, and my own personal time. I need to take a break for a while. Every time I close my eyes all I see is a computer monitor...

That is the danger of doing work/homework/research on a computer as a distraction is as easy as a mouseclick away. I've been on my laptop the entire time you 3 have been going back and forth, but I more or less resisted any temptation to join in as it would just be costly for me in terms of time. If anything, I think this thread has made me even more conservative as if that was even possible. I'd like to join in more often, but time is a scarce commodity.

[junehhan]

Originally Posted by Ntruder

Holy shit? Who is this guy?

The only thing I don't completely agree with in this is 4. We should have strong tariffs and trade barriers to protect American companies, not just provide tax rewards for those who stay. your way both decreases tax revenue and will still not be cheaper than sending your company abroad.

Tarrifs are rather harmful for free trade, and the aggregate economy of the world is generally more worse off as a result. The problem with that is that you risk severe retaliation. I will have to respond more when I have time, but keep in mind that while it did not cause the great depression, the Smoot Hawley tarriffs likely increased the severity of the Depression. If international trade is halted, this can have some very negative consequences. The way I see it though is that we may have more leveraging power now than we did when we were a manufacturing economy. With the service sector now making up 55-60% or more of our GDP, we no longer rely on exports as we used to for our GDP. Heh, I wonder what would happen if we enacted a 100% tarrif on all goods from China...........

now i'm being sadistic........

[Ntruder]

Originally Posted by junehhan

Tarrifs are rather harmful for free trade, and the aggregate economy of the world is generally more worse off as a result. The problem with that is that you risk severe retaliation. I will have to respond more when I have time, but keep in mind that while it did not cause the great depression, the Smoot Hawley tarriffs likely increased the severity of the Depression. If international trade is halted, this can have some very negative consequences. The way I see it though is that we may have more leveraging power now than we did when we were a manufacturing economy. With the service sector now making up 55-60% or more of our GDP, we no longer rely on exports as we used to for our GDP. Heh, I wonder what would happen if we enacted a 100% tarrif on all goods from China...........

now i'm being sadistic........

But what you're not factoring in is that if we have weak import tariffs, American companies will pack up and move their factories overseas, which they have done. Then we have American jobs becoming Chinese jobs.

Same goes for Mexico. We sign NAFTA, and all it did was allow US companies to build their plants down in Mexico instead of in the US. At some point, you have to take some pride in being an American and stand up for American jobs. The world market is not equal. Chinese workers can be well off on $3/day. Think about it. With no penalty for taking your plant overseas, whats the point in staying in America and paying decent wages to American workers? You think the corporations give a shit about American workers? Obviously they do not.

[junehhan]

Originally Posted by Ntruder

But what you're not factoring in is that if we have weak import tariffs, American companies will pack up and move their factories overseas, which they have done. Then we have American jobs becoming Chinese jobs.

Same goes for Mexico. We sign NAFTA, and all it did was allow US companies to build their plants down in Mexico instead of in the US. At some point, you have to take some pride in being an American and stand up for American jobs. The world market is not equal. Chinese workers can be well off on $3/day. Think about it. With no penalty for taking your plant overseas, whats the point in staying in America and paying decent wages to American workers? You think the corporations give a shit about American workers? Obviously they do not.

I'll go into more detail some other day, but the idea is that we live in a globalized economy now. The problem is that our corporations now must compete against every other company throughout the rest of the world. There is a reason why not just American firms, but other firms throughout the world are outsourcing to, and even moving their manufacturing to China/India/etc...

What will happen is that the rest of the world is moving their firms to these low income countries. If our own firms are unable to do so, it will hamper their ability to compete with other firms in other countries who now have an unfair ability to undercut our firms in pricing. People want cheap more than they want something made in the US. They'll buy from these foreign companies who can in fact undercut our own firms because they have significantly lower manufacturing costs. If a firm is unable to compete, they will cease to exist and America will be much worse off. This is especially true because many of these firms who build in China simply do what the Japanese automakers like Toyota do(most of those parts are Japanese in origin), in that they ship our parts to places like Shanghai(this is what HP does), and manufacturs it there, and then ships it back. By restricting our firms from going to China, we will essentially have signed a death warrant for them as they will no longer be able to compete. Keep in mind that they are going to China because they have to compete, because anytime you move your manufacturing operations to another country, this is a very significant financial investment. This is a consequence of globalization, but at the same time does have benefits. If all firms are able to lower the costs that they can sell their products for on the market, that means that they are cheaper to purchase, which means that we can buy the same products with fewer hours of labour.

As for tarriffs, I believe the US is too lax as you have stated. Even for foreign firms here the US, I believe we should "gently" request that they increase the percentage of domestic parts that they use(such as with the Japanese cars). The benefit in that we are now a service based economy, is that we import a lot of stuff we buy as we no longer manufacture that stuff. Threatening to raise tarriffs to force other developed countries to reduce their tarriffs on our stuff could pose less risk of retaliation than it used to back when we were a mostly manufacturing economy. In fact, I think McCain, Obama, Clinton(*gasp*) should put this on their priority of things to do when they get elected simply because we might as well make the most of the fact that our USD's have depreciated, which means that American goods are a BARGAIN in foreign countries right now.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Ntruder

Do you realize that you are easily the most hated board member on HDF? Its a wonder that you're still allowed to post here.

I don't bother refuting your facts, because they are so blatantly stupid. Why the fuck was FDR elected to 3 terms? (would have been 4 but the republicans decided to limit a president to 2 because they got sick of FDR)

Now I know you have never taken even a high school history lesson. Its a known fact that FDR died during his fourth term and his Vice President Truman took over. You hate me because I bring up the facts that contridict the liberal hyjacking of history that has gone on over the years. Liberals see history as they wished it had happened rather then how it actually did and you are a prime example.

Also how can you use Rambo as your profile pic. Rambo would have your dumb hippy ass down.

[junehhan]

Guys, seriously lets chill and cool off for a bit. I'll be away for a few days so I can catch up on stuff, but i'll post some comedy and satire for you guys to laugh at and have fun with when I get back.

Originally Posted by Ntruder

Oh blow me you worthless sack of shit, I know my history. A typo doesn't mean I'm not right, and it certainly doesn't make you smart, you fucking retarded waste of life. Talking to people as stupid as you brings down my intelligence level by half.

In 1947 the 22nd amendment was passed by a Republican congress who didn't want to see any more Democrats running 4 terms in office. Roosevelt was highly popular at the time of his death, and could have easily carried another election, just like I fucking said.

Its ironic and funny when you criticizing my intelligence while simultaneously managing to have two words spelled incorrectly in your post. You're a worthless troll idiot tool, and nobody likes you here. When people say something stupid, they say "he's pulling a Jimmy Smith." How's it feel to be the forum loser?