OTA HDTV setup - help needed

jlatenight · 06-08-2009, 06:17 PM

Hi guys, I'm thinking of firing our Comcast cable and going over the air only. I have 4 tvs (including my PC) that would all need the signal. They're all already wired for cable with decent cable and compression connectors. one in the basement, 2 on the 1st floor, and one on the second. I have an indoor amp that I could use. It's a Drop Amp EDA 2100 www dropamp com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=3&products_id=28 Given my tvfool results, what suggestions can you make? Should I tell you what channels I want? I guess I want as many as I can get without breaking the bank.

What's the biggest bang for my buck? My impression is, since there's two big clumps of stations, North-west and south-west, I prob need two antennas in two different directions and a jointenna, right? What would you guys do given my siuation?
www tvfool com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d249d853891a3d 9 add the dots, and make sure there's no space before the last "9" in the URL. Couldn't get rid of it for some reason. Thanks to ALL who reply!!

Tower Guy · 06-08-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlatenight

I prob need two antennas in two different directions and a jointenna, right?

I'd try to avoid Jointennas. You really need one Jointenna per channel, and you have too many channels to combine economically.

Start with your two antenna proposal and try to add them with a backwards splitter. If that doesn't work, consider an A/B switch on each TV that wants to get both directions. Each antenna should be a 7-69 such as the Antennacraft HBU-22 or Winegard HD7694P.

Try it first without your amplifier. Some amps would be overloaded with your signals. You can have as much as 20 db loss from the antenna to the TV and it will still work.

ziggy29 · 06-09-2009, 08:05 AM

Your signals are strong enough in other directions that I'd just try a regular, cheap combiner (the reverse of the splitter) to get it all into one line before buying additional equipment. Try to make sure the coax runs from each antenna into the combiner are the exact same length to reduce the destruction of signal when combining.

Tower Guy · 06-09-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlatenight

I prob need two antennas in two different directions

When combining antennas aimed in wildly different directions the lengths of the cable to the backwards splitter doesn't matter.

jlatenight · 06-09-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

Start with your two antenna proposal and try to add them with a backwards splitter.

Thanks Tower Guy! Can you send me an example of what a "backwards splitter" is? I assume it looks exactly like a regular 2-way splitter, but "flows" in reverse?

ziggy29 · 06-09-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

When combining antennas aimed in wildly different directions the lengths of the cable to the backwards splitter doesn't matter.

True if the antennas are both strongly directional. Some "directional" antennas can still pick up reflected signals at an angle, though, and can thus carry the same signal into the combiner. If these are out of phase you can lose some of the signal strength. I tend to think it's good practice to keep the cable runs the same length if reasonably possible.

As for the OP's last question, a "combiner" is basically a splitter used "backward" -- instead of having one signal split into two coax runs, you have two different antenna inputs combining to form one.

jlatenight · 06-09-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29

Your signals are strong enough in other directions that I'd just try a regular, cheap combiner (the reverse of the splitter) to get it all into one line before buying additional equipment. Try to make sure the coax runs from each antenna into the combiner are the exact same length to reduce the destruction of signal when combining.

Ziggy, So a combiner is different from a backwards-splitter? How about the Winegard CC-7870 Antenna Coupler, would that be the best choice? Should I buy the model with the twin-lead connectors from the antennas, or f-type connectors? Is there any difference really?

Can you help me figure out how much space should be between the two antennas on the same mount? Which direction should be on top; the one pointing SW? I've read there should be a minimum distance of one-half "wavlength" between antenna booms. How many inches is that?

Tower Guy · 06-09-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlatenight

I've read there should be a minimum distance of one-half "wavlength" between antenna booms. How many inches is that?

I think half a wavelength is the absolute minimum. More spacing is better.

The formula for a half wavelength is 492/f. If your lowest channel is 7, the frequency is 174. This equals 2.83'.

I wouldn't bother with a special antenna coupler. Just use a splitter and connect it backwards.

jlatenight · 06-09-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

I think half a wavelength is the absolute minimum. More spacing is better.

The formula for a half wavelength is 492/f. If your lowest channel is 7, the frequency is 174. This equals 2.83'.

I wouldn't bother with a special antenna coupler. Just use a splitter and connect it backwards.

First off, thanks SO much to both of you guys for your great info! You've been immensely helpful. Ok, so here's what I have so far: I'm going to get two Antennacraft HBU-22's and I'm going to mount them on a mast attached to my chimney; one basically North, the other south-west. I'll use a regular splitter to combine the two antennas. I'll mount the splitter on the mast in between the two antennas and use equal lengths of cable to both antennas (just to be safe). Or should the splitter be in my attic?

Now, I'm concerned about splitting and cable length to get the signal to all my tv's. Here's how it will work. There will be one splitter in the attic to drop down into our bedroom, then the other cable will run down to the first floor for my pc tuner card where it will get split and run into my basement where it will be split again two ways: one to our main tv in the basement, and the other to the tv back up one floor to our kitchen. I'm assuming I'll need an amp, right? Even with an amp, do you think the kitchen tv will still get a strong enough signal? Can I use the Drop Amp EDA 2100 I already have? Is it the correct specs? I was using it for my cable connection. Would the best place to introduce it be in the attic before the first split?

jim5506 · 06-09-2009, 05:26 PM

Why do you need to receive channels from both directions?

You have all 5 networks available to the north and all 5 available to the south. Pick one and settle on it.

Some of the stations are so strong that they will be picked up off the back of an antenna regardless of which way it's pointed.

You will loose about 7 dB in your splitters for 4 TV's so only moderate amplification should be needed.

Tower Guy · 06-09-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlatenight

I'm assuming I'll need an amp, right?

Not necessarily. The strong Providence stations may be too much for an amp.

The station within the antenna pattern that will need an amp is WYDN. Do you want to watch WYDN?

jlatenight · 06-09-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5506

Why do you need to receive channels from both directions?

You have all 5 networks available to the north and all 5 available to the south. Pick one and settle on it.

Some of the stations are so strong that they will be picked up off the back of an antenna regardless of which way it's pointed.

Thanks Jim, so if I got with an Antennacraft HBU-22 for instance ~25' high let's say pointed to about 358deg or so, is there any way to know how many channels I'll get?

jlatenight · 06-10-2009, 12:04 PM

Is there an inherant difference between a "preamp" which as I understand it is mounted outside on the pole with the antenna, and a regular indoor "amp" like the Drop Amp EDA 2100 I have?

JB Antennaman · 06-10-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlatenight

Is there an inherant difference between a "preamp" which as I understand it is mounted outside on the pole with the antenna, and a regular indoor "amp" like the Drop Amp EDA 2100 I have?

Pre amp amplifies the signal closest to the antenna.

Amplifier amplifies the signal that is delivered by wire from your antenna to your amplifier.

Between the antenna and the amplifier you will have a high amount of loss. All the amplifier does is amplifies the signal that you have - along with all the noise and all the noise that the amplifier makes itself.

Basically the Pre Amplifier generates enough signal to overcome the loss of signal in the wire and the connectors and splitters and that is about it.

A amplifier cannot amplify a signal that is not there.

With digital UHF - either you have a signal or you don't.

The loss of signal between the antenna and the television is helped with a pre amplifier. A amplifier only generates enough gain to compensate for the loss of signal that the other connections on that line - such as a couple of televisions or a radio being connected on the same line as the main television.

A amplifier cannot make a poor signal better.

A pre amplifier can improve a poor signal.

jim5506 · 06-10-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlatenight

Thanks Jim, so if I got with an Antennacraft HBU-22 for instance ~25' high let's say pointed to about 358deg or so, is there any way to know how many channels I'll get?

Potential reception from two different directions - directly from the link in your first post.

358*
WHDH - 7(7.1) - NBC
WCVB - 20(5.1) - ABC
WGBH - 19(2.1) - PBS
WBZ - 30(4.1) - CBS
WFTX - 31(25.1) - FOX
WMFP - 18(62.1) - IND
WGBX - 43(44.1) - PBS
WLVI - 41(56.1) - CW

226*
WNAC - 12(64.1) - FOX
WJAR - 51(10.1) - NBC
WPRI - 13(12.1) - CBS
WLNE - 49(6.1) - ABC
WSBE - 21(36.1) - PBS

06-09-2009, 05:26 PM	#10
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,754	Why do you need to receive channels from both directions? You have all 5 networks available to the north and all 5 available to the south. Pick one and settle on it. Some of the stations are so strong that they will be picked up off the back of an antenna regardless of which way it's pointed. You will loose about 7 dB in your splitters for 4 TV's so only moderate amplification should be needed. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K;2 - DishNetwork ViP211; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

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06-09-2009, 08:05 AM	#3
ziggy29 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Austin DMA Posts: 136	Your signals are strong enough in other directions that I'd just try a regular, cheap combiner (the reverse of the splitter) to get it all into one line before buying additional equipment. Try to make sure the coax runs from each antenna into the combiner are the exact same length to reduce the destruction of signal when combining.

06-10-2009, 12:04 PM	#13
jlatenight My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8	Is there an inherant difference between a "preamp" which as I understand it is mounted outside on the pole with the antenna, and a regular indoor "amp" like the Drop Amp EDA 2100 I have?