Antenna Selection Assistance (another one!)

LibbyLeeds · 05-21-2009, 05:44 PM

Sorry, but I have yet another request for help selecting a reasonable antenna so we can receive TV after June 12th. And if possible can you imagine you are trying to explain this to someone in kindergarten? I’m typically pretty bright, but when reading the posts on these forums just hear a dull buzzing sound in my head.

We do not have cable or satellite and price is currently an issue. 6+ months of unemployment so we are looking for a reasonably priced solution. Hope to spend $100 or less.

Our location is in zip code 30022 (NE of Atlanta). More specifically Lat 34 degrees, 0.1 minutes North and Long = 84 degrees, 16.5 minutes West.

We are in an interior unit townhouse (2 stories) and there is a line of tall trees less than 10 feet outside the back of our home.

According to antenna web, we are 17 – 18.4 miles from the stations we care about receiving and recommends a small Multi-directional antenna.

A few caveats /comments:
- Mounting this on the roof is not an option. I just don’t want to fool with it. I know this limits our reception but it is just more trouble than I want to deal with. No one here has a clue how to install one and I am not hiring anyone.

- I will consider mounting a small antenna outside but it would have to be at ground floor level. Attic is a maybe but I have absolutely no concept of how we would then connect this to the TV’s (from outside or the attic).

- We have three TV’s. All very basic, older tube TV’s. 2 on second floor, one on the first. Currently use rabbit ears for analog TV.

- We have tried hooking up the digital converter box with our existing rabbit ears (Terk Technology TV-1 Passive Indoor TV Antenna). With Analog TV the reception is flawless (or as flawless as it can get). With the converter box it was worse. We were able to get all the major digital channels, but they were frequently pixelated, popped/cracked (I don’t know how else to describe it) with occasional loss of sound.

What I need is:
1. Recommendation on the best antenna given my restrictions/wishes.
2. If we absolutely have to have an outside antenna, how in the world does that “reach” my TV’s (remember no cable or satellite)?
3. Since we had reasonable reception with our old rabbit ears, is there an “inside” antenna we could buy to hook to each TV that would be an improvement over our current rabbit ears?

Many thanks!

-Libby (probably the one person in the US who HATES this damn TV conversion!)

1happyguy · 05-21-2009, 06:03 PM

An outdoor mounted antenna is your BEST bet!! If I understand your one of your questions is about how you hook up the tvs to the antenna. You will hook up your coax cable from the antenna into a splitter and the you will need to run a wire(s) from the splitter to the tv's. Can you give us a street with the zip code. You need to get a report from TVfool. Perhaps you could find someone in your area from the forum to help you mount the antenna or a friend. But, please use safety measures when using a ladder!! We will help you as best as we can!!

LibbyLeeds · 05-21-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1happyguy

You will hook up your coax cable from the antenna into a splitter and the you will need to run a wire(s) from the splitter to the tv's.

OK. I recognize all these words but have no idea what this means! How do I get a cable inside from outside? Do we have to drill through a wall? Not going to happen!

Also, we are not mounting on the roof. Period.

Would anyone mind addressing my third question. What about an indoor antenna hooked directly to the set? Since we picked up the channels with our existing rabbit ears, they just need improvement, would a better one help? If so, what is a better one?

Thanks again!

1happyguy · 05-21-2009, 06:28 PM

Yes you would have to drill a hole in the house!! We need your tvfool report but, you can't post it until you have 5 posts!! Until we have your tvfool report we cant help!! An INDOOR antenna CAN pick up stations!!

LibbyLeeds · 05-21-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1happyguy

Yes you would have to drill a hole in the house!! We need your tvfool report but, you can't post it until you have 5 posts!! Until we have your tvfool report we cant help!! An INDOOR antenna CAN pick up stations!!

Lat and long for my street are posted in my original message . I went to TV Fool and was able to pull the report with that data (coordinates). I don't post my specific address in public forums.

1happyguy · 05-21-2009, 06:46 PM

Your pretty far out to use an indoor antenna. All of your stations that you may get are all going to be on UHF. With the exception of PBS which will be on channel 8. Tower guy may be able to weigh in. But, IMHO you NEED an outdoor antenna.

Good Luck

1happyguy · 05-21-2009, 06:57 PM

This is a newer antenna from Winegard the Winegard SS-3000. It may help it may not. Others will give there shot at helping you too!!

LibbyLeeds · 05-21-2009, 07:47 PM

That Winegard was one we were looking at. I just don't have the funds to deal with any type of installation right now and total lack or know-how or skills to do it myself (and friends who just dont understand that the $60+that cable costs pays our power bill right now).

We will try that one and see how it works. Any other opinions are welcome.

Thanks, again.

Tower Guy · 05-21-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LibbyLeeds

I don't post my specific address in public forums.

Your specific address won't be public when the tvfool report is posted. Speculating about what might work without hard data is a waste of time.

gcd0865 · 05-21-2009, 09:55 PM

Libby:

The reason you are getting poor digital reception is because most of your digital channels are on UHF (channels 14-51), except for WXIA-NBC-11 (whose digital signal will be called 11.1, but will actually be on channel 10) and WGTV-PBS-8 (whose digital signal at 8.1 is already permanently on channel 8). Your Terk antenna is predominantly a VHF antenna (for channels 2-13 only). The pixelation you're experiencing can occur when you don't have enough signal strength, or your antenna is not aimed well toward the station, or your antenna simply does not have enough directivity (due to its design) to be accurately pointed toward the station no matter how you orient it.

I think you should be able to receive adequate signal strengths for most channels with an indoor antenna at your location, and without spending very much. However, indoor antennas (such as rabbit ears and other kinds) sometimes have problems because signals tend to bounce among the walls of houses/apartments/etc. and the rabbit ears don't have much directivity by their very design. Usually, the best reception from rabbit ears occurs from directions perpendicular to the extended elements themselves. Since your VHF digital channels 11.1/10 and 8.1/8 are to the south-southwest of you, you should be able to orient the extended elements of your Terk antenna in a west-northwest to east-southeast position, so that those two VHF digital channels should come in well. That should be the first test for that Terk antenna. In other words, you want the "V" shape of those elements in a plane perpendicular to the direction of your stations (which are south-southwest of you). Oftentimes, flattening the "V" shape of those antenna elements (by moving them each downward somewhat) so that they are closer to horizontal can help.

For all your other channels, which are on UHF, they might come in a little better with your Terk antenna if you were to shorten (collapse) the antenna elements to a shorter length (maybe only 8-10 inches long for each element; you'd have to experiment a little) and again orient those elements in the same west-northwest to east-southeast position (and preferably horizontally opposed from each other, as opposed to upright in a "V" shape). This is because UHF has a much smaller wavelength than VHF, and you want the antenna to match. You might find that (at least for some of your tv's, maybe the 2nd story ones) this works better. With some experimenting, you may even find some intermediate combination of length and direction that works well for all channels (VHF and UHF).

If not, the next step would be to add in a dedicated UHF-only antenna. If you want something simple for indoors, the Channel Master 4149 is inexpensive and has some directivity to it, due to its reflector:

http://www.summitsource.com/channel-...49-p-7193.html

I used to use one of these in my old apartment, and it worked very well on UHF for me. You would stand this near the tv somehow (usually, the higher the better), and face the bow-tie elements toward the south-southwest direction. But it must be combined correctly with your Terk VHF antenna when connecting to the converter box, which will have a single coaxial antenna input. Your current Terk VHF antenna should already have an adapter that converts its twinlead wire (300 ohm) to the threaded coaxial connector (75 ohm) that screws (or just press-fits) onto the antenna input of your converter box. The Channel Master 4149 UHF antenna is said to also include a similar adapter. Therefore, you will also need what is called a 75 ohm UHF-VHF signal joiner (or UVSJ), which is also inexpensive:

http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ

Attach the Terk to the VHF input, then the Channel Master 4149 to the UHF input, and then you'd need a short coaxial wire (maybe you have one that came with your converter box, or one from former cable tv service) to attach the line output of the UVSJ to the coaxial input of your converter box. You'll probably have to play around with the positioning of the two antennas a little (they shouldn't be right next to each other, so they don't interfere), but with a little patience, you should be able to find acceptable positions for the two antennas. You may also find that this works better for some of your tv's compared to others.

I would try just one of the Channel Master 4149s first, and test it on all of your tv's. If it works, you have an inexpensive (less than $30) solution. Some people might try to talk you into buying a new amplified combination VHF-UHF indoor antenna (more than $30), but in my experience, you have plenty of signal strength at your location (your analog channels were fine before), so an amplified antenna is not what you need (and would be a waste of money).

Hope this is helpful...

LibbyLeeds · 05-22-2009, 07:36 PM

gcd0865 - thank you. This is very helpful and just the type of information I was looking for. We will give this a try.

This is all hopefully a somewhat temporary solution for us as I had hoped to have a job and be able to afford cable again before this transition happened. Can't see the need to spend tons on fancy antennas and running cables for what will hopefully only be a few more months just so we can have some basic TV access.

Thanks again.

gcd0865 · 05-23-2009, 12:10 PM

Libby:

I see that the Channel Master 4149 is now listed as discontinued (that's too bad; don't know whether this was the case the other day, or whether I just didn't notice). If you can't find that antenna, the next best inexpensive choice I've heard of is called the Silver Sensor. It's also a UHF-only antenna with some directivity, and it was sold under both Zenith and Phillips names. Wiring would be identical to the 4149; just point the short front end toward your south-southwest. I think it might come in both amplified and non-amplified versions; if so, stick with the non-amplified. Some places might show the Silver Sensor as discontinued also, but it should be findable (easily findable on Google). I suspect they're discontinuing the inexpensive good UHF antennas to try to get people to buy more expensive amplified ones (which probably won't work well for many people anyway).

05-21-2009, 05:44 PM	#1
LibbyLeeds My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5	Antenna Selection Assistance (another one!) Sorry, but I have yet another request for help selecting a reasonable antenna so we can receive TV after June 12th. And if possible can you imagine you are trying to explain this to someone in kindergarten? I’m typically pretty bright, but when reading the posts on these forums just hear a dull buzzing sound in my head. We do not have cable or satellite and price is currently an issue. 6+ months of unemployment so we are looking for a reasonably priced solution. Hope to spend $100 or less. Our location is in zip code 30022 (NE of Atlanta). More specifically Lat 34 degrees, 0.1 minutes North and Long = 84 degrees, 16.5 minutes West. We are in an interior unit townhouse (2 stories) and there is a line of tall trees less than 10 feet outside the back of our home. According to antenna web, we are 17 – 18.4 miles from the stations we care about receiving and recommends a small Multi-directional antenna. A few caveats /comments: - Mounting this on the roof is not an option. I just don’t want to fool with it. I know this limits our reception but it is just more trouble than I want to deal with. No one here has a clue how to install one and I am not hiring anyone. - I will consider mounting a small antenna outside but it would have to be at ground floor level. Attic is a maybe but I have absolutely no concept of how we would then connect this to the TV’s (from outside or the attic). - We have three TV’s. All very basic, older tube TV’s. 2 on second floor, one on the first. Currently use rabbit ears for analog TV. - We have tried hooking up the digital converter box with our existing rabbit ears (Terk Technology TV-1 Passive Indoor TV Antenna). With Analog TV the reception is flawless (or as flawless as it can get). With the converter box it was worse. We were able to get all the major digital channels, but they were frequently pixelated, popped/cracked (I don’t know how else to describe it) with occasional loss of sound. What I need is: 1. Recommendation on the best antenna given my restrictions/wishes. 2. If we absolutely have to have an outside antenna, how in the world does that “reach” my TV’s (remember no cable or satellite)? 3. Since we had reasonable reception with our old rabbit ears, is there an “inside” antenna we could buy to hook to each TV that would be an improvement over our current rabbit ears? Many thanks! -Libby (probably the one person in the US who HATES this damn TV conversion!)

05-21-2009, 09:55 PM	#10
gcd0865 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 44	Libby: The reason you are getting poor digital reception is because most of your digital channels are on UHF (channels 14-51), except for WXIA-NBC-11 (whose digital signal will be called 11.1, but will actually be on channel 10) and WGTV-PBS-8 (whose digital signal at 8.1 is already permanently on channel 8). Your Terk antenna is predominantly a VHF antenna (for channels 2-13 only). The pixelation you're experiencing can occur when you don't have enough signal strength, or your antenna is not aimed well toward the station, or your antenna simply does not have enough directivity (due to its design) to be accurately pointed toward the station no matter how you orient it. I think you should be able to receive adequate signal strengths for most channels with an indoor antenna at your location, and without spending very much. However, indoor antennas (such as rabbit ears and other kinds) sometimes have problems because signals tend to bounce among the walls of houses/apartments/etc. and the rabbit ears don't have much directivity by their very design. Usually, the best reception from rabbit ears occurs from directions perpendicular to the extended elements themselves. Since your VHF digital channels 11.1/10 and 8.1/8 are to the south-southwest of you, you should be able to orient the extended elements of your Terk antenna in a west-northwest to east-southeast position, so that those two VHF digital channels should come in well. That should be the first test for that Terk antenna. In other words, you want the "V" shape of those elements in a plane perpendicular to the direction of your stations (which are south-southwest of you). Oftentimes, flattening the "V" shape of those antenna elements (by moving them each downward somewhat) so that they are closer to horizontal can help. For all your other channels, which are on UHF, they might come in a little better with your Terk antenna if you were to shorten (collapse) the antenna elements to a shorter length (maybe only 8-10 inches long for each element; you'd have to experiment a little) and again orient those elements in the same west-northwest to east-southeast position (and preferably horizontally opposed from each other, as opposed to upright in a "V" shape). This is because UHF has a much smaller wavelength than VHF, and you want the antenna to match. You might find that (at least for some of your tv's, maybe the 2nd story ones) this works better. With some experimenting, you may even find some intermediate combination of length and direction that works well for all channels (VHF and UHF). If not, the next step would be to add in a dedicated UHF-only antenna. If you want something simple for indoors, the Channel Master 4149 is inexpensive and has some directivity to it, due to its reflector: http://www.summitsource.com/channel-...49-p-7193.html I used to use one of these in my old apartment, and it worked very well on UHF for me. You would stand this near the tv somehow (usually, the higher the better), and face the bow-tie elements toward the south-southwest direction. But it must be combined correctly with your Terk VHF antenna when connecting to the converter box, which will have a single coaxial antenna input. Your current Terk VHF antenna should already have an adapter that converts its twinlead wire (300 ohm) to the threaded coaxial connector (75 ohm) that screws (or just press-fits) onto the antenna input of your converter box. The Channel Master 4149 UHF antenna is said to also include a similar adapter. Therefore, you will also need what is called a 75 ohm UHF-VHF signal joiner (or UVSJ), which is also inexpensive: http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ Attach the Terk to the VHF input, then the Channel Master 4149 to the UHF input, and then you'd need a short coaxial wire (maybe you have one that came with your converter box, or one from former cable tv service) to attach the line output of the UVSJ to the coaxial input of your converter box. You'll probably have to play around with the positioning of the two antennas a little (they shouldn't be right next to each other, so they don't interfere), but with a little patience, you should be able to find acceptable positions for the two antennas. You may also find that this works better for some of your tv's compared to others. I would try just one of the Channel Master 4149s first, and test it on all of your tv's. If it works, you have an inexpensive (less than $30) solution. Some people might try to talk you into buying a new amplified combination VHF-UHF indoor antenna (more than $30), but in my experience, you have plenty of signal strength at your location (your analog channels were fine before), so an amplified antenna is not what you need (and would be a waste of money). Hope this is helpful... Last edited by gcd0865; 05-21-2009 at 10:00 PM.

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05-21-2009, 06:03 PM	#2
1happyguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 504	An outdoor mounted antenna is your BEST bet!! If I understand your one of your questions is about how you hook up the tvs to the antenna. You will hook up your coax cable from the antenna into a splitter and the you will need to run a wire(s) from the splitter to the tv's. Can you give us a street with the zip code. You need to get a report from TVfool. Perhaps you could find someone in your area from the forum to help you mount the antenna or a friend. But, please use safety measures when using a ladder!! We will help you as best as we can!!

05-21-2009, 06:28 PM	#4
1happyguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 504	Yes you would have to drill a hole in the house!! We need your tvfool report but, you can't post it until you have 5 posts!! Until we have your tvfool report we cant help!! An INDOOR antenna CAN pick up stations!!

05-21-2009, 06:46 PM	#6
1happyguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 504	Your pretty far out to use an indoor antenna. All of your stations that you may get are all going to be on UHF. With the exception of PBS which will be on channel 8. Tower guy may be able to weigh in. But, IMHO you NEED an outdoor antenna. Good Luck

05-21-2009, 06:57 PM	#7
1happyguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 504	This is a newer antenna from Winegard the Winegard SS-3000. It may help it may not. Others will give there shot at helping you too!!

05-21-2009, 07:47 PM	#8
LibbyLeeds My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5	That Winegard was one we were looking at. I just don't have the funds to deal with any type of installation right now and total lack or know-how or skills to do it myself (and friends who just dont understand that the $60+that cable costs pays our power bill right now). We will try that one and see how it works. Any other opinions are welcome. Thanks, again.

05-22-2009, 07:36 PM	#11
LibbyLeeds My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5	gcd0865 - thank you. This is very helpful and just the type of information I was looking for. We will give this a try. This is all hopefully a somewhat temporary solution for us as I had hoped to have a job and be able to afford cable again before this transition happened. Can't see the need to spend tons on fancy antennas and running cables for what will hopefully only be a few more months just so we can have some basic TV access. Thanks again.

05-23-2009, 12:10 PM	#12
gcd0865 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 44	Libby: I see that the Channel Master 4149 is now listed as discontinued (that's too bad; don't know whether this was the case the other day, or whether I just didn't notice). If you can't find that antenna, the next best inexpensive choice I've heard of is called the Silver Sensor. It's also a UHF-only antenna with some directivity, and it was sold under both Zenith and Phillips names. Wiring would be identical to the 4149; just point the short front end toward your south-southwest. I think it might come in both amplified and non-amplified versions; if so, stick with the non-amplified. Some places might show the Silver Sensor as discontinued also, but it should be findable (easily findable on Google). I suspect they're discontinuing the inexpensive good UHF antennas to try to get people to buy more expensive amplified ones (which probably won't work well for many people anyway).