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Can you overload enough to hurt the tv tuner?

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Old 12-03-2008, 03:39 PM   #1
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Default Can you overload enough to hurt the tv tuner?

My 2005 HLRxx67W Samsung 720p DLP died last week and I decided to replace it with a Samsung LN52A650. First let me say the reception over the old tv is twice as strong.

I have a Televes DAT-75 along with a CM7777 preamplifier hooked to it. Would it be best to eliminate the preamplifier? I dont know if the other tv died because of me overloading the tuner.

Thanks for any answers.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:47 PM   #2
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Televes DAT-75 Gain: 19 dBd

CM7777 preamplifier UHF Gain: 26 dB

Total gain = 45db
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:59 PM   #3
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Whatever killed the '05 Sammy, it wasn't RF overload. Overload can't wreck a tuner front end. It's a temporary condition -- remove the source and the tuner will work just fine. Go ahead and take out the 7777 (and the power inserter) to see how it goes. If you need the boost, re-install the pre-amp.
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:41 AM   #4
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The actual gain on the DAT-75 is about 13, just lower than the 91-XG but close and that also varies with frequency being about 11.5 on channel 14 to about 16 on ch 52. (Source: www.hdtvprimer.com)
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Old 12-08-2008, 08:57 PM   #5
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Default Snake oil antenna companies are everywhere!

I just LOVE these REDICULOUS gain figure claims on these over priced and poorly constructed GIMMICKS!

Antenna gain is DIRECTLY dependent on BOOM length NOT 91 bazillion elements on a 8 foot boom or two extra booms that aren't even in the same plane stuck on a 6 foot boom!

ChannelMaster and Winegard are the ONLY manufacturers that don't use made up gain figures and untested and unproven gimmicks!

And Winegard is the ONLY manufacturer the publishes REAL gain figures over a reference DIPOLE.

The Winegard HD-9032 at 114.5 inches in length will outperform the DAT-75 or 91-XG with ease and do it for $35 dollars!

And if a VHF/UHF antenna is what you need, the Winegard HD-8200
or the HD-7698 as well as the ChannelMaster CM-3671 won't be beat by ANY of these foreign made GIMMICKS!

Pt Barnum said it best "There's a sucker born every minute!"
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Tech View Post
The Winegard HD-9032 at 114.5 inches in length will outperform the DAT-75 or 91-XG with ease and do it for $35 dollars!
According to hdtvprimer.com you are wrong:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

The 91XG is clearly superior to HD-9032 (formerly known as the PR-9032).
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Tech View Post
ChannelMaster and Winegard are the ONLY manufacturers that don't use made up gain figures and untested and unproven gimmicks!
Well then maybe you can explain that POS Winegard HD-1080. That's not a gimmick???? That thing makes a better Christmas tree ornament than a real antenna.
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Old 12-09-2008, 07:00 AM   #8
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Default Snake oil antennas and their blind followers abound!

I also love the hdtv primer info that keeps getting repeated on here!
It is 100% computer generated!
NOT actuall tests under REAL condition compared to a REAL dipole!
BOOM lenth is the ONLY accurate predictor of yagi gain PERIOD.
This ain't complicated people.
Snake oil antennas are everywhere and there are plenty of ignorant
consumers to buy them!
If you look at the REAL gain figures that Channelmaster publishes
for it's 4 bay and 8 bay bowtie antennas then look at the figures Antennas Direct publishes, you will soon see that they are GREATLY exagerated.
Sorry, but the laws of electrical constants and physics can't be overcome with clever advertising!
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:17 AM   #9
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I agree with you that Winegard makes sound antennas. But, I would like to read your answer to Hoop's question. What about the Winegard 1080? You have an explanation for it's underwhelming performance in the field, particularly the poor gains in high vhf for a 7-69 antenna?

Last edited by IDRick; 12-09-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:00 PM   #10
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9032 actually looks like a good uhf antenna by design, anyone tried one of these?
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Tech View Post
Antenna gain is DIRECTLY dependent on BOOM length NOT 91 bazillion elements on a 8 foot boom or two extra booms that aren't even in the same plane stuck on a 6 foot boom!
Actually, the statement above is the one that is incorrect. Gain is a function of how well an antenna is tuned (bandwidth) and focused (beam pattern + polarization) to receive the desired signals. This means the horizontal beam width, vertical beam width, and frequency response are directly related to how much gain you will end up with. The length, shape, positioning, and number of active elements DO affect these parameters. If you can make an antenna with a very tight 3D beam tuned to a very narrow frequency range, you'll have yourself a very high gain antenna.

The length of the boom usually affects the horizontal and vertical beam widths. So, yes, longer booms will usually have higher gain, but it also depends on what frequencies the antenna was designed for and how much the "antenna aperture" in improved by corner reflectors, multiple booms, or other other structures (the "director" and "reflector" Yagi-Uda elements do not tell the whole story).

Antenna technology IS still evolving. Fractal antennas are a relatively new development and I wouldn't be surprised if some genuinely new and useful designs come out of this. VHF-Lo, VHF-Hi, and UHF frequencies are approximately perfect multiples of three relative to each other, and that's exactly the type of frequency arrangements that fractal antennas are good at handling (similarities at different scales).

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Last edited by otaota; 12-11-2008 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Tech View Post
I also love the hdtv primer info that keeps getting repeated on here!
It is 100% computer generated!
NOT actuall tests under REAL condition compared to a REAL dipole!
BOOM lenth is the ONLY accurate predictor of yagi gain PERIOD.
This ain't complicated people.
Snake oil antennas are everywhere and there are plenty of ignorant
consumers to buy them!
If you look at the REAL gain figures that Channelmaster publishes
for it's 4 bay and 8 bay bowtie antennas then look at the figures Antennas Direct publishes, you will soon see that they are GREATLY exagerated.
Sorry, but the laws of electrical constants and physics can't be overcome with clever advertising!
The ARRL will not accept antenna advertising based on empirical data, only NEC modeling. This is done for a good reason. Test conditions can be specifically set up to prove almost anything in a controlled area. There are too many variables in all the various consumer locations.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smdp1 View Post
9032 actually looks like a good uhf antenna by design, anyone tried one of these?
I understand that the HD-9032 is very popular in some areas, especially in Toronto, where it's low price and durability make it popular with Canadians who are trying to get the Buffalo, NY digital stations. I don't think that anyone would ever declare it the ultimate UHF antenna, but it is a good antenna at a reasonable price.
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Tech View Post
BOOM lenth is the ONLY accurate predictor of yagi gain PERIOD.
I wonder if this is the same "tv tech" that's running my local CBS affiliate. No wonder their signals is so lousy, even though I'm only 40 miles away. Their tech probably installed a monster antenna with tremendous boom length but performs like ____.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:02 PM   #15
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Default overload damage?

I see this thread has gone dormant but I'd like to ask one question about
Quote:
Whatever killed the '05 Sammy, it wasn't RF overload. Overload can't wreck a tuner front end. It's a temporary condition
Is this true absolutely, even if I have say a 24 dBi giant parabola (like a wade PB-82-BB) and point it at my local station of -15 dBm.
I'm more than just curious. What signal levels are required to damage a tuner.
I guess I could get a second hand SD cheapo converter box and do a smoke test.
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