VCR Delima After The Analog Cutoff

**rbinck** · 05-24-2008, 11:27 AM

I received this PM from a member that had asked a similar question earlier in another forum area. Unfortunately that thread got somewhat derailed between me and another member discussing the merits of two different approaches to a HTPC construction. So I am reposting raphael's main question here hopefully to explain what is going to be a problem for many VCR users when the 2009 analog cut off occurs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PM from raphael1137

I record on VCR all the my favorite shows for latter viewing sans commercials, usually 2-4 shows/nite on different stations.

I just learned that a digital converter, once connected from the antenna to the VCR to the TV, will change the channels INSTEAD of the VCR. Bloggers say that you can set the converter to the channel you want to record and time set the VCR, but this only allows for recording ONLY ONE show a nite.

One Blogger had this cable connection:
_Antenna to VCR coax in. VCR coax out to Converter Box. Box coax out to TV. Box composite/stereo out to VCR in. VCR out to TV. This will allow continued use of VCR with NTSC analog (for the next 11 months anyway) or with ATSC DTV.

Is this solution to record several shows a nite on a VCR viable ?

I am ready to buy an LCD and Converter Box, but I am concerned once I have them, they will not work to record shows on VCR as I require.

Your expert advise is gratefully appreciated!

raphael1137

Ok I understand you want a solution to your issue of how to be able to set up a VCR recorder that will record various shows each evening. These shows may be on different channels and that's where the converter box is going to be a problem for you. The converter box is going to be where the channel is selected not the VCR as you currently do. Now you set up several programs to record and the programming you put into the VCR will change to the appropriate channel and start recording.

Using a converter box, the box will now have to tune the channels not the VCR. The box will output the tuned channel much like a cable box does now on channel 3 or 4 for RF output and through the composite (yellow) or s-video outputs. Now if you hook any of the outputs to the input of your VCR, the only thing the VCR can record will be the station the box is tuned to. So if you have shows that you wish to record on different channels, you will need to manually change channels on the converter box. Hardly automatic like what you are used to.

The alternatives will be to get either a DVR or a VCR with a ATSC tuner. Both will operate the same was as your existing VCR. Another alternative that was discussed in the derailed thread, DVR vs VCR with ATSC Tuner? would be to buy or build a HTPC. As discussed in that thread it can be done fairly cheaply if you have a older computer that could be used as the base unit.

As far as recorders that have the ATSC tuners built in, I don't have any suggestion right now, but you have inspired me to look into it. I will survey what is available and add a page to my blog on this as I see that many people will have the same issue as you when the 2009 cut off occurs. Check over there from time to time.

CreedFan818 · 05-24-2008, 11:00 PM

Although I have a Dish DVR, I also continue to use my VCR with converter box when necessary. I have three ATSC tuners in my setup: TV, Dish 722 DVR, and Zenith DTT900 converter box. There are times I watch a program using my TV's tuner, record a program on my Dish DVR, and record a third program with my converter/VCR. I can see Raphael's dilemma, not having enough ATSC tuners/recorders to meet his needs.

My Zenith converter, like many converters, does not have the option of programming it to change channels at a certain time to record on to the VCR. Fortunately, there is hope. When Dish Network's DTVPal (also known as the Echostar TR-40) comes out, that apparently will have a VCR timer. According to Wikipedia's comparison of DTV converters ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units ), that is the only one known to have that ability. To other members of this forum - if there are others, please list them.

Tower Guy · 05-25-2008, 07:54 AM

Magnavox 80 gig DVD recorder with ATSC tuner $198.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=8054241

It's software isn't elegant, but it'll do the job.

Rick0725 · 05-25-2008, 09:05 AM

I am a little more high end...this is a good deal

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...2/product.html

ppauper · 05-27-2008, 10:06 AM

this is probably a silly question, but here goes anyway...

if you try to record a digital signal on a VCR, what happens ?
does it record just nothing or does it record a signal that you could put through the converter when you play it back ?

meaning if you put the vcr between the antenna and the converter rather between the converter and the TV and record then convert rather than convert then record, what happens ?

CreedFan818 · 05-27-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppauper

this is probably a silly question, but here goes anyway...

if you try to record a digital signal on a VCR, what happens ?
does it record just nothing or does it record a signal that you could put through the converter when you play it back ?

meaning if you put the vcr between the antenna and the converter rather between the converter and the TV and record then convert rather than convert then record, what happens ?

If you try to record the digital signal with an analog tuner, you will record "snow". For example, if there's a digital station broadcast on channel 28, and you record 28, your VCR tuner just records the snowy picture. Unfortunately, the converter can't convert that snowy picture to something watchable. The converter's ATSC (digital) tuner can take that signal on 28, and convert it to an analog signal that is recordable on the VCR.

electrictroy · 05-27-2008, 02:56 PM

Another option is to get cable.

Cable will continue supplying analog signals that your VCR can record.

texasbrit · 05-28-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictroy

Another option is to get cable.

Cable will continue supplying analog signals that your VCR can record.

At least until 2012, it's quite possible analog cable will be gone soon after that.....

**rbinck** · 05-28-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictroy

Another option is to get cable.

Cable will continue supplying analog signals that your VCR can record.

That is really not an option for the OP. He does not want to pay for cable, sound familiar?. What he is looking for is a method to be able to schedule recordings that may be on different channels. Now if you can supply a link for a VCR that will control a satellite box for channel selection, then yes that could be of help for those people who can only get satellite.

Rickfla · 05-28-2008, 03:52 PM

the Philips DVD recorder with VHS that I bought has both an ATSC and NTSC tuner and tuner for digital and anlog cable--quite a nice system. The analog/digital tuner for use with an antenna is not the best but if you want just strong locals only it's just fine. It'll also record VHS to DVD or DVD to VHS. So I connected the Insignia NS-DXA1 to the Philips RF input for now to get weaker digital signals. My only objection is that the Philips VHS/DVD puts up a blue screen on a weak signal. other wise its not a bad system.

texasbrit · 05-28-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

That is really not an option for the OP. He does not want to pay for cable, sound familiar?. What he is looking for is a method to be able to schedule recordings that may be on different channels. Now if you can supply a link for a VCR that will control a satellite box for channel selection, then yes that could be of help for those people who can only get satellite.

Using a VCR with a satellite receiver is a little clumsy but many people do it. Just use the "autotune" capability of many satellite receivers to switch to the correct channel at the correct time. Program the VCR to start recording on its audio/video inputs at the various program start times and that works fine.

This approach is also what should be possible with an OTA tuner like the DTVpal mentioned earlier.

As well as DVD recorders with ATSC tuners, there are combination DVD recorders/VCRS with built-in ATSC tuners and either of those would be the best way to record from an OTA digital signal.

electrictroy · 05-29-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

That is really not an option for the OP. He does not want to pay for cable, sound familiar?

I reread post 1. I don't see anyplace where the original poster says he does not want cable.

That's why I suggested it. You can get locals-only cable for just ~$15.

**rbinck** · 05-29-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictroy

I reread post 1. I don't see anyplace where the original poster says he does not want cable.

That's why I suggested it. You can get locals-only cable for just ~$15.

If you read his original thread that got hijacked DVR vs VCR with ATSC Tuner? you will see he does not want to pay for cable.

electrictroy · 06-14-2008, 08:00 AM

I don't want to pay for cable either,
but $15 a month is really not that bad.
You get perfect reception, and it's compatible with your old VCR.

Another option is the Echostar DTVpal which automatically changes channels at set times, and feeds the signal to your old analog VCR. I'm planning to buy two of these once they become available.

Annie53 · 06-27-2008, 12:45 PM

Hi guys.

Well, last night I ordered two DTV Pals from the following site:
http://dtvpal.com/

$119.98 Two Pals at 59.99 each
- 80.00 Two coupons
+ 8.96 Tax
+17.60 S+H
$ 66.54 Total Out of Pocket

I am supposed to receive them in 7-10 days. We will see.

If and when I do get them, I will let you guys know if I can record OTA on my VCR's, like I am hoping to.

If the boxes can't do what I think they can, I am going to have my brother go over all the info you guys have provided and we will figure out which way to go from there.

Bye for now.

05-24-2008, 11:00 PM	#2
CreedFan818 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Genoa City, WI Age: 34 Posts: 228	Although I have a Dish DVR, I also continue to use my VCR with converter box when necessary. I have three ATSC tuners in my setup: TV, Dish 722 DVR, and Zenith DTT900 converter box. There are times I watch a program using my TV's tuner, record a program on my Dish DVR, and record a third program with my converter/VCR. I can see Raphael's dilemma, not having enough ATSC tuners/recorders to meet his needs. My Zenith converter, like many converters, does not have the option of programming it to change channels at a certain time to record on to the VCR. Fortunately, there is hope. When Dish Network's DTVPal (also known as the Echostar TR-40) comes out, that apparently will have a VCR timer. According to Wikipedia's comparison of DTV converters ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units ), that is the only one known to have that ability. To other members of this forum - if there are others, please list them. __________________ Polaroid 4641TLXB 46" 1080p LCD TV Dish Network ViP722 HD DVR Radio Shack U-75R UHF-only antenna w/ Magnavox 28 db VHF/ 22 db UHF pre-amp Sony STR-DE545 550-watt Surround Receiver Zenith DTT900 Digital to Analog Converter Venturer STB7766G Digital to Analog Converter DTVPal Digital to Analog Converter

05-27-2008, 02:56 PM	#7
electrictroy Wii 480p looks good to me Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,895	Another option is to get cable. Cable will continue supplying analog signals that your VCR can record. __________________ TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

05-28-2008, 03:52 PM	#10
Rickfla Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wesley Chapel, FL Posts: 95	Philips VHS/DVD Recorder the Philips DVD recorder with VHS that I bought has both an ATSC and NTSC tuner and tuner for digital and anlog cable--quite a nice system. The analog/digital tuner for use with an antenna is not the best but if you want just strong locals only it's just fine. It'll also record VHS to DVD or DVD to VHS. So I connected the Insignia NS-DXA1 to the Philips RF input for now to get weaker digital signals. My only objection is that the Philips VHS/DVD puts up a blue screen on a weak signal. other wise its not a bad system.

06-14-2008, 08:00 AM	#14
electrictroy Wii 480p looks good to me Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,895	I don't want to pay for cable either, but $15 a month is really not that bad. You get perfect reception, and it's compatible with your old VCR. Another option is the Echostar DTVpal which automatically changes channels at set times, and feeds the signal to your old analog VCR. I'm planning to buy two of these once they become available. __________________ TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

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ppauper High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 47	this is probably a silly question, but here goes anyway... if you try to record a digital signal on a VCR, what happens ? does it record just nothing or does it record a signal that you could put through the converter when you play it back ? meaning if you put the vcr between the antenna and the converter rather between the converter and the TV and record then convert rather than convert then record, what happens ?

06-27-2008, 12:45 PM	#15
Annie53 Technically Challenged :) Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 17	Hi guys. Well, last night I ordered two DTV Pals from the following site: http://dtvpal.com/ $119.98 Two Pals at 59.99 each - 80.00 Two coupons + 8.96 Tax +17.60 S+H $ 66.54 Total Out of Pocket I am supposed to receive them in 7-10 days. We will see. If and when I do get them, I will let you guys know if I can record OTA on my VCR's, like I am hoping to. If the boxes can't do what I think they can, I am going to have my brother go over all the info you guys have provided and we will figure out which way to go from there. Bye for now.