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kitz technologies amplifiers

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Old 05-18-2007, 08:43 AM   #1
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Default kitz technologies amplifiers

does anyone have any facts on these amplifiers which someone is selling on ebay ?
their website is kitztech dot com
(it seems to be a 1-man shop run by a mr kitz)

The noise figure sounds too good to be true:

>Bandwidth 40 Mhz - 1000Mhz
>Noise Figure: 1 db or less across the band
>Gain: Adjustable from 0 - 20 db
>Output IP3: >+32dbm

and things that sound too good to be true usually are.
Anyone actually used them who can say if they're a scam or they really work ?

I've currently got a zenith 1010 amp which cost $10 from a surplus store which has a noise figure on the case of 3db
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Old 05-18-2007, 12:32 PM   #2
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Those are typical specifications for a GASFET amplifier.

Yet 1 db noise figures are not that useful for terrestial signals. A TV antenna is aimed at the earth which acts a a black body radiator with a noise temperature of 273 Kelvin. (at 32 farenheit) That's equal to a 3 db noise figure.

1 db noise figures are more useful for satellite reception because the antenna is not aimed at the earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppauper View Post
does anyone have any facts on these amplifiers which someone is selling on ebay ?
their website is kitztech dot com
(it seems to be a 1-man shop run by a mr kitz)

The noise figure sounds too good to be true:

>Bandwidth 40 Mhz - 1000Mhz
>Noise Figure: 1 db or less across the band
>Gain: Adjustable from 0 - 20 db
>Output IP3: >+32dbm

and things that sound too good to be true usually are.
Anyone actually used them who can say if they're a scam or they really work ?

I've currently got a zenith 1010 amp which cost $10 from a surplus store which has a noise figure on the case of 3db
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:46 PM   #3
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The advantages of a mast mounted amplifier are:

1. amplifiy the signal from the antenna before other local noise can be superimposed,
2. provide a stable terminating impedance to the antenna across the operating band with as short a run of cable as possible, and
3. drive the distribution cable with a low-Z output stage that damps the cable at the input end and provides a stable signal across the operating band. (Good 75-ohm amplifiers have an impedance of the output stage that are a fraction of 75 ohms.)

I don't see how an indoor amplifier, even if it was low noise, could provide the benefits of a good, low noise mast mounted amplifier.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:53 PM   #4
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I purchased one a while back and compared it to a mast-mounted CM7775.Using 45ft of RG11 the performance was basically the same.It did introduce some faint crawling diagonal lines on snow-free analogs.No problems noted on digitals.They said I could return it no problem,but I've kept it anyway.
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Old 05-19-2007, 05:23 AM   #5
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I tried 2 of them a few months back to take advantage of the low noise and variable gain control.

ended up returning them. too high of a gain for my setup and could not find an acceptable compromise with gain adjustment. noticed that turning down the gain also increased noise.

Output IP3: >+32dbm is also a tadd low and the preamp really should be used where a high gain amp is appropriate
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:54 AM   #6
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Default Positive Experience

I've been using them for some time with excellent results. The only thing I've found better was the $350 Research Communications amp.
BUT: I've NO strong signals, so no overload problem, and in the face
of any strong contributor(s) I can't offer any experience with its ability to accommodate a broader dynamic range.

I have put them on the spectrum analyzer to measure response and they are as flat as a pancake across the VHF/UHF spectrum.

To accommodate the losses of some terrible (RG-29) internal spec house coax and splitter choices, I've cascaded as many as three of these to brute force the signal through the distribution path, with no noticable degradation in S/N ratio.

Jeff Kitz CAN also supply a version with simplex powering. E.g., power feed via the transmission line, on request. I have several of them, that I asked him to make about two years ago. I note his website now includes this version as a standard product, and that he now offers a 0.4dB noise factor model. But if I order any more I'm going to press him that his (slightly more expensive) "mast mounted" models should come with a weather tight enclosure, as his competors supply!!
Just FWIW...
t

Last edited by tballister; 08-02-2010 at 12:04 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-02-2010, 07:04 PM   #7
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The answer is that it is best to amplify the signal one time - before it enters the coax and is lost. Once the signal is lost in the coax, all the amplification in the world will not bring it back.

So the best amplifiers for digital television would be one that has separate inputs and a combiner for both UHF and VHF and one that has a 75 ohm output to connect directly to the coax.

You then use the coax with the least amount of loss per a foot with the best shielding - if you live in a fringe area and hope for the best.

Using the worlds best pre amplifier with the worlds worst cable - doesn't produce the best results.

My moms house was wired with a cheap coax that used tinfoil for a outer shield and no braid and they had twist on connectors. We added a good pre amplifier and had almost no signal. I threw the crappy wire away and reconnected everything to a XG 91 and she now has better service then the cable company.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:14 PM   #8
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Default I like my Kitztech KT100VG

Hello,

I bought one about one month ago. Mr. Kitz is a pleasant man on the phone and reasonable. He'll take it back if you're not satisfied.

I got mine for my downtown Toronto house. I get every channel from Toronto and Buffalo without any problems. My antennas face Buffalo. The Hamilton transimitters are 35 miles beyond the CN Tower in Toronto. I was having trouble locking on to the Hamilton stations.

The KT100VG without using the FM trap (included) and without messing with the gain worked fine to solidify my Hamilton reception.

I have a cottage in a deep fringe situation. I brought my KT100VG there to try it out. The stations there are analogue. With the device, I achieved watchable signals on about nine channels - a big improvement.

The go-to preamp for deep fringe seems to be the Channel Master 7777. I finally bought one last weekend. I'm going to install the 7777 at the cottage next time I'm up. The Kitztech is needed in Toronto.

In a couple of weeks when I go back to the cottage I'll be doing the Pepsi Challenge with the CM7777 and the Kitztech. I'll post to this thread my observations.

The price for the Kitztech seems pretty reasonable to me. The fact that it can be installed at ground level where all your splitters are is a major convenience factor. If it works, it works. Anyway, I feel satisfied with my purchase and I recommend it if you sense it might work for you, too.
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
The fact that it can be installed at ground level where all your splitters are is a major convenience factor.
Any amplifier or preamplifier may be mounted in such a manner. Best results are always obtained with the shortest possible lead from the antenna to the amplifier module. This minimizes cable signal loss pre-amplification and is recommended for the weakest signals.

The KT amp, not being in a weatherproof enclosure without additional work and materials, is more difficult to mount where it can be most effective. Consequently, mounting it with a longer down-lead may lead to negating some, if not all, of its otherwise low noise figure advantage.
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:20 AM   #10
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Default Kitztech / 7777 real-world comparison, ground & mast mounted

[quote=projectsho89;1073959]Any amplifier or preamplifier may be mounted in such a manner.[quote]

Thanks Projectshow. That makes sense.

So, given that, when I go to the cottage to do the Pepsi Challenge comparison of the two devices, I'll first hook up the 7777 in the same spot as where I have the Kitztech hooked up and compare there. Then I'll hook up the 7777 where it belongs and check for improvements. Finally, I'll bring the Kitztech outside and give it a try on the mast as well.

I'll report back around Labour Day.

Seeking confirmation: For the technical people out there... So it seems there is a base noise level of something about 3db always present on the earth. Does that mean that all amps/pre-amps with a noise level ranging from 0 to 3db will perform equally well (assuming all have identical levels of gain)? An amp/preamp with a noise factor of 0.4 will not have an advantage over an amp with a noise factor of 2.7 when being used for OTA since both are below the natural noise level of the earth?
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Old 08-07-2010, 09:42 PM   #11
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WAG, but I would think that the noise of the pre-amp must be added to the background noise, so an amp with 0.4 db noise would be better than one with a 3 db noise level for very weak signals.

My guess is that background is ignored since youcan do nothing about it, others may illucidate, please.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:52 AM   #12
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As I said I would do, I compared my Kitztech 100 VG and my Channel Master 7777.

They both perform similarly well.

On the analog channels you can't tell much difference between the two.
On the digital channels you get the same results.

To get the same results as the 7777, the Kitztech has to be mounted on the mast outside where the 7777 goes. When installed inside I did not pull in my digital channels using either of the amps. When mounted outside in the proper location both amps pulled in the two digital channels.

My conclusion:

If your mast is easily accessible then you might as well use the proven 7777.

If Mr. Kitztech starts providing a weatherproof enclosure for his amps, then one would probably be happy with his pre-amp. One could have the added benefit of the adjustible gain.

I am very happy with both my buying decisions.

The 7777 was right for my deep fringe cottage. It works. It is easy to go on the roof of the cottage to mount, aim, adjust, etc. Plus, given the conditions a ground mounted amp could not give us the boost we needed to pull in the digital channels. Mast mounting was necessary.

In the city, the Kitztech is just fine. First, I don't want to go on my roof. Not worth the risk to go up there often. Plus the Kitztech is sufficient to give us the lock on our problem channels. By the way, the 7777 when tempoarily hooked up at ground level in the city also worked. Anyway, the Kitztech will work fine from inside the house and I don't have to worry about the effects of wind, rain, heat, and cold on a pre-amp.

Both are fine depending on your needs.
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